He's just a fucking idiot.
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He's just a fucking idiot.
I pretty much agree with you. However, the potential lotto pick is also a potential mid-late first rounder, which kinda sucks.
Darko's kicking some ass vs the Cavs right now. Proud of him.
Looked really smooth on his last two jumpers.
10 points in the 2nd QUARTER, and counting.
Arroyo's been a godsend to those guys.
I can't believe what I'm watching. [smilie=annoyed.gif] Darko is putting on a damn clinic out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstat
What is it with the Pistons and young players? Why don't they mix?
Well, Darko still has foul issues.
Happy the kid is doing so well, though. Never could have happened here, and I'm ok with that.
Arroyo just continues to be an absolute stud in Orlando. He's doing the same thing he did here, except it's working now.
I'm not. The reason he didn't succeed here is because he didn't try. The fact that he's actually good makes me even more angry at him. I would have been much happier with him if he just sucked. This is undeniable proof that he was tanking it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstat
Arroyo is different. He always tried.
I couldnt root for someone that lost in his ego. And i highly doubt he roots for the Pistons to win it all or even do well.
I am glad to see arroyo prove his value as a PG. Too bad he didnt fit Flip's system.
WHY? why couldnt this bum play like that for the Pistons? WHY ??? [smilie=angry.gif] the Cavs are pathetic and the Magic are a lotto team sure, but come on...
Obviously, he wanted out of detroit even before the season started.Quote:
Originally Posted by FP22
It's not worth it to get upset over the past. Look forward to the 07 draft and move on.
Orlando shot 16/19 in the 2nd quarter, led mainly by Darko and Arroyo.
%84 shooting. HOLY SHIT.
Yea the Cavs are a great defensive team and it shows. [smilie=anxious.gif]Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstat
The Cavs are falling hard it seems. They may fall out the mix again.
Cavs were dominating the game till the 2nd quarter. They were up 7 going in, they're down 9 now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach
I think Arroyo had 7 assists in the 2nd qtr alone. He made Bo Outlaw look like Karl Malone on the pick and roll.
All I can say is that Joe had better turn that pick into something good for the sake of himself and Flip. Yes Flip. He played a bigger role in this than Dumars IMO. A player this good should have played on this team. No excuses.
He wasnt going to get much better for a guy that was tanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by FP22
Sorry, I edited the post. I think Flip/LB are obviously more to blame than Joe, but Joe should have shown more restraint in trading him so quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstat
It was necessary to clear $10 million in salary. Besides, the more we kept Darko, the lower his value was going to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by FP22
Its not fair to blame the coaches for a guy tanking on a succesful team. He didnt want to be here and wasnt trying to be here. Fuck him, and fuck his arrogant idea that he deserved time he didnt want to earn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstat
In the long run i'll take the pick no matter where it is in the first round. And we'll be able to keep our core, which is the key to us being competitive every year until the core wears out.
I don't care about his trade value. I'm saying he should have kept him, and the coach should have played him. You don't dump the salary of a 20 year 7 footer who is playing like he is playing for Orlando. He is definately playing at a level where he could be contributing big time for this team. He doesn't look like a "project" out there. If he actually got a shot at playing time, he could have probably taken over for Dice, and we could have traded him for the cap relief they covet so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstat
I'm pissed that he was tanking here when he wasn't getting minutes, but if Flip gave him 20 minutes would he continue to "tank"? He didn't look that way untill he gathered a few DNPs. Sure, that's not a great attitude to have, but you don't throw away a great talent because of it. There are plenty of "star" players out there that would do the same thing in that situation.
You're entitled to that. But maybe Joe D figured out he was tanking it. You dont keep a Tanker. You dont keep a guy whose purposely not giving effort on a team all about effort. Its delfino's effort that i like. Same for everyone else. Darko didnt want to put in any effort, so we gotta let him go. I give Joe D credit for giving him a chance to prove himself this year. And by not trying he spit in Joe D's face and handcuffed him out of getting a good trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by FP22
Exactly.
Darko was playing 5-7 minutes early on, and he showed next to nothing.
The game vs NY on National TV was the final straw. Darko went out and made Jerome James look like a hall of famer. He played like a bust in front of a national audience. At that point, Darko was embarrassing us.
He gave us no reason to play him that much. He was tanking from game 1.
But if he had played some minutes would he have still have been a "tanker"? The point is that we should have never found out if he was that kind of person. He should have played a few minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach
I would be interested to here what kind of "promises" they made to Darko before the season. Or if he just made that crap up. If they did in fact promise him minutes behind the scenes, then maybe that is why he acted the way he did??
This isn't a lottery team. We could not afford to give Darko 20 minutes that he didn't earn. Things don't work that way on an elite club.
Shit, we GAVE him 5-7 to start out, and he did nothing with it.
Darko never wanted to work for anything here. Anybody who defends that is out of his mind.
Darko could have played his way into the rotation, or he could take the easy way out and suck his way on to another team. He chose the latter.
I'm happy Darko's in his enviornment now, but I REFUSE to blame Joe D for anything other than drafting him in the first place.
I think its fucked up because Joe D backed Darko in spite of alot and Darko didnt give a shit because he wasnt playing 20 minutes a game. Selfish lil brat couldnt even respect what the guy did for him enough to keep his mouth shut. Even after Dumars lied and said cutting Darko was a cap move foremost. He didnt say why it became a cap move. Which is Darko wasnt putting any effort out for the millions he was getting.
See i dont like that. Delfino has a coach damn near working against him and he's earning minutes. Theres no one else on our team tanking. So how do we give minutes to the one guy tanking. Maxiell, acker, amir, and dale davis play hard every second they get. So what exactly should we be "giving" to Darko. This aint orlando. Here you earn your time. Sometimes in spite of your coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by FP22
He did play a few good games at the beginning of the season (Bucks game comes to mind) despite very little minutes. Then he was starting to gather DNPs between little 4 minute stints. That's when the bottom fell out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstat
Look, I agree that he was a punk. But I don't agree that you throw out an extremely talented big man just because he doesn't like playing garbage minutes. Darko was drafted between 2 pre-NBA superstars, and by association, he was one too. I would imagine there are plenty of "star" players out there that would do similar (if not worse) things if they were in his situation. Does that mean I wouldn't want to have them on the team? No. I would play them, and it would negate the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach
It's not like he was causing a disturbance in the locker room or something.
The few he played in earned him time in others. His response then was to tank it. he felt he couldnt get more than 5-7 minutes a game so he gave up and it showed.Quote:
Originally Posted by FP22
1) how the hell would we ever know if darko was tanking? he wasnt EVER given a chance. he had to outplay 3 allstars (on a team that obviously gives veteran experience as a tie breaker). under the way we ran this team, darko wasnt getting pt for probably 2 years, regardless of how he played.
2) people act like we gave him every chance in the world in the regular season. he was still on a short leash, it was just temporarily lengthened by a degree.
orlando has given darko 20+ min a night every game. you dont get the rust off in a night. you dont become a member of a team over night. and most likely, hes going to look like a total stranger to us by the end of the season.
dont tell me it couldnt have worked out here with darko. thats fucking rediculous. dumars (yes dumars) decided it was best to store darko on the shelf and say he doesnt play till he earns it--and then he made it damn near impossible to earn it.
But he is a problem in the locker room for players busting they ass. If you bust your ass at work and the new guy slacks off, you're gonna have an issue with it. You may not be vocal out loud about it. But you wouldnt like it. Its not fair to give him minutes when Maxiel and Johnson play harderer. I still think Amir has more athletic potential than Darko anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by FP22
And i said before, he handcuffed Joe Dumars with that tank move. I'd give him a crobar to the shin next time i saw him if i was Joe Dumars. I mean you act as if keeping him was a legitimate option. We get even less for him at the end of the year and he gets into a lame duck year tanking it next season. We had the potential to get NOTHING for him. Do you understand that? its not an option. If Darko didnt want to be here, get what you can and move on. you cant always get a steal for your losses. Sometimes you take a hit, just to drop a guy either way. He was gone regardless. We just spoed up the process and got something in return. We woulda got more if we dumped him at the beginning of the year. But i dont fault Joe Dumars for getting darkos back. I fault Darko for saying fuck him regardless.,
look, did darko handle himself the best way possible in his detroit days?
absolutely not.
but then again, he was a 17-20 year old put under tremendous scrutiny, asked to do the impossible.
its called burning out, it happens to everyone. LB didnt give lebron, carmelo, or amare in the olympics, he pissed them off then, too (regardless of what they say).
the fact that darko didnt give it his all in the last 2 min of a blowout, imo, should not be held against him. and while its not ok that he apparantly gave up in detroit, it is understandable.
LOL...thats bullshit. He was given an oppurtunity by far. and Flip woulda had no problem subbing 2 big men if Darko wasnt looking playing like he didnt give a shit. In fact he did sub Darko in, we got outscored and darko played like he didnt care anymore. If anything darko forced flip to take him out of the rotation. Flip wanted to have the next KG type big man. But he's not gonna baby him.Quote:
Originally Posted by b-diddy
Are you trying to tell me darko gave full effort?
Quote:
Originally Posted by b-diddy
Impossible? PLAYING WITH FULL EFFORT IS IMPOSSIBLE??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: My goodness thats one hell of a "fuck up as much as you like" security excuse blanket you lay for him. [smilie=annoyed.gif]
Look at the first few games...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach
1. Philly: Blowout
2. Boston: 3 minutes 51 seconds
3. Toronto: Blowout
4. Sacramento: Blowout
5. Phoenix: DNP
6. Portland: DNP
That is when the tanking started, IMO. He had what 99% of fans thought was a great pre-season, yet he was picking up most of his minutes in garbage time again and he even got back-to-back DNPs during the 2nd week of the season. I thought that Flip was just being conservative with the minutes because he was trying to prove his system to the team, but it got worse before it got better. The NY game was bad, but I don't think 1 game should decide his career in Detroit. I still think he should have gotten three or four 18-20 minute games in a row before Joe pulled the trigger. Just give him one more look.
we did get nothing for him, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach
cato might never play a minute for us.
we gave up 2 players for nothing in a playoff run. how do you get less than that?
Actually the boston game in detroit and the jersey game were where he started tanking it. He played absolutely horrible defense in both games like he didnt even care.Quote:
Originally Posted by FP22
You can justify tanking anyway you want but tanking is tanking. And it has no place here. Fuck him and anyone else with no balls to play hard.
I hated giving up arroyo and that part of the deal sucked. But your thickheaded blind darko love is blinding you top the fact that we get nothing for him when he tanks another year and goes lame duck before leaving us for NOTHING in return....Quote:
Originally Posted by b-diddy
We got Cato and a pick. We keep him we Get NOTHING. Maybe me and you define nothing under a different set of rules. If you wanted more in return, you shoulda told him to play with some balls. [smilie=annoyed.gif]His shitty effort took dumars out the running for anything valuable in return.
By your logic, we gave up nothing for nothing, then.Quote:
Originally Posted by b-diddy
Darko and Arroyo wouldnt do any more for us this season than that 2007 draft pick.
Delk is a better fit for this team than Arroyo.
That's what I said. It is no coincidence that the home Boston game was immediately after those 2 DNPs. That's why I said that was when he started tanking. I agree that his attitude sucks about it, but we shouldn't have found out about it. He should have played to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach
So my point is why waste anymore time? The dude forced our hand. What? not trade him just to spite him and get nothing for him when he leaves. We got much more important things to do that play petty boy merry go 'round with that lil brat.Quote:
Originally Posted by FP22
Not to mention by all accounts, he was tanking in PRACTICE.
In Detroit, that's unforgiveable.