I am not religious, but I'm praying for this deal not to work. I HATE Steve Nash (don't know why, I just do) and don't want him to get a ring.
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I am not religious, but I'm praying for this deal not to work. I HATE Steve Nash (don't know why, I just do) and don't want him to get a ring.
Ego is a big deal for some stars. And at the end of the day you cant keep paying them all max contracts long term, which what he'll probably want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekyl
I think the contract was a big thing too. They were not committed to keeping him past this year. Neither is Miami, but at least he has a to establish himself somewhere. If Miami starts winning, he'll be seen as a huge reason why. Already people are talking about his influence on the lockerroom there. I think he just wanted a team committed to him a little more than the Suns were. He's been rumored to be traded for a long time, I'm sure that wears on you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekyl
Marion had a desire to play his natural position. Full-time undersized PF while being asked to cover the faster PGs because Nash can't D kinda wears on you.
Skip Bayless (of all people) brought up a good point. PHX don't need Shaq to run with them, they just need him to initiate the break.
I agree, but with that having been said I hope Shaq gets hurt (again) and misses a significant amount of time (again) and that he's not able to click with the team. I say that in the nicest way I can of course, because i'd be a dick if I said I wanted him to suffer a season/career ending injury.
Except Shaq isn't a good enough rebounder to initiate the break. They lost defense and boards in this deal. You can't initiate a break when the opposition gets uncontested layup after uncontested layup because Shaq & Nash can't defend the pick-and-roll. :)
Side note: Marion was the highest paid Sun, so I don't think money is as big of a factor as people make it out to be. HE WAS THE BEST AND MOST VALUABLE SUN BUT NEVER GOT ANY CREDIT. He was buried because 1)the white media crowned Steve Nash(the worst MVP in the history of sports) as their Messiah because he made a lot of cute passes and Phoenix winning was a "feel good story", and 2)Amare dunked a lot, then orgasm'd afterwards.
With Marion, it's more about respect than money.
:cogent:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Archdiocese
That's exactly what I was saying. It was all about being top dog for him, or as close as he could get to it. Only D-Wade above him in Miami.
good for him. good luck being top dog, no rings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekyl
Zero rings being the third fiddle "team guy" in Phoenix. Pretty much lose/lose either way for Marion as an individual. Not sure if he could swallow his pride and self-respect and sign with a team like SA or DET for nothing in order to win a chip when he opts out. Doubt it, I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Archdiocese
if thats how he ever saw it, no wonder he has no rings.Quote:
Zero rings being the third fiddle "team guy" in Phoenix.
Iffy waters you're walking on there Arch. So he should play low level teams to show off his pride(ego imo, but whatever)? Dude wants a max contract and the suns dont want to give him one. He doesnt lose anything since he'll get paid well wherever he plays next year. If it happens to be an elite team, does that mean he's looking for a free chip? I dont think so, but to each his own. I think you're playing too much of a violin for Marion. There is no lose situation for him at this juncture.Quote:
Not sure if he could swallow his pride and self-respect and sign with a team like SA or DET for nothing in order to win a chip when he opts out. Doubt it, I do.
As far as the MVP thing goes, When phoenix plays 500 ball like they do w/o Nash, I'll buy the Nash is horrible idea.
Of course he wants a max tract, that's obvious. The team which signs him better give him 20+ shots and plaster his image all over that city or he'll whine again, even if he gets maxed out like he did in PHX.
then i truly feel bad for the team that signs him. :( :emo kid:
Remember, with Marbury and a mediocre coach in a half-court offense, the Suns took the Spurs to 6 games in the playoffs. I think Nash's D gets exposed bigtime without Marion around. Baron Davis and Monta Ellis took turns abusing Nash last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename V
I didn't catch that game, but Shaq didn't play. They say he could tonight vs. Dallas.
Yeah, they played horrible defense last night. It was entertaining, but wasn't championship ball either. Even the lesser players were attacking the basket all night (Barnes, Pietrus). They need Shaq to change the basket defense. Amare was a monster attacking the glass, and Hill rebounded nicely too, but everyone else pretty much watched. Hill did a decent job of guarding Davis, which is why Ellis went off on Nash. They can probably get by against teams with 1 quick guard (with a combination of Hill and Bell), but not two scoring guards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Mxy
Shaq isn't making his Suns debut until after the break. Gaaay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Mxy
Rough comparison to the suns now. Nash's bad defense was exposed regardless of marion. Marion was too busy trying to cover PF's so nothing any worse off than it was imo. I can see there will be a post after every loss and crickets after every win. Either way lets see their record at the end of the year.Quote:
Remember, with Marbury and a mediocre coach in a half-court offense, the Suns took the Spurs to 6 games in the playoffs.
shaq doesn't scare me anymore. you can single up on him and stay put on their jumpshooters.
he can definitely get a lot of easy dunks off their ball movement and penetration though. you have to lock everyone else down and not become overly concerned with shaq.
shaq isn't half the player he once was. he'll do well for them, but the suns as a team are not improved IMO.
Shaq's first game as a Sun could be against the Lakers on Wednesday btw.
The NBA, Where rape happens without convictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mailman
Rape is obviously a touchy subject for you.
Marion was the one covering Tony Parker throughout most of last year's playoffs, after TP opened Nash a new one. He did a fine job of it, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename V
Raja bell is capable imo of covering the other team's perimeter asset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Mxy
Amare with double-digit boards at the half against LA. Shaq being down in the trenches gives Amare a lot more rebounding and shot-blocking opportunities. He is going to have a beastly 2nd half of the season.
Neither he, nor (more surprisingly) Barbosa, was filling the bill against TP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename V
The Suns have pretty short guards. A guy like Tracy McGrady can post them up and/or just straight up shoot right over them.
Raja Bell isn't that great lateraly, not very strong, or all that athletic. He's pretty mediocre defensively.
Wow thats so severely harsh one might think your Kobe fan element is pushing that take. If he's not strong, Kobe must be a twig.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Archdiocese
Barbosa isnt good on defense. No surprise there. If speed made you good, Stuckey would be our best defender.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Mxy
But Raja Bell and a solid team gameplan can slow down TP imo. Nash going at him would also help.
shaq laying the body on TP a few times can slow TP down.
parker is one of those guys who's toughness should always be tested. he's seriously one of the best players in the nba when hes comfortable and he's on. gotta kick his ass a little.
btw, raja bell is a very good perimeter defender.
History is not going to look back fondly on this trade.
Remember, the Suns were in 1st place when they made this deal, and now, if they miss the playoffs altogether?
Steve Kerr might as well move to Honduras.
I agree. Steve Kerr needs to stop stealing pages out of the Danny Ferry GM Bible.
I'd be livid right know if I was a Suns fan. I think you have to get rid of D'Antoni, and bring in a guy who can coach both sides of the ball. (Larry Brown?)
To be honest, he had to make a move like that. I hated the deal from the start, but they weren't going to win with the same team/style that they haven't been winning with for the past 4 years. That style just doesnt' work. So they had to try something different. Unfortunately, they needed a post player that is mobile and a strong interior defender. Shaq is neither. Someone like Rasheed would have fit that system, but I don't know if anyone other than Shaq was available.
The problem is D'Antoni. People need to stop talking about him like he's a genious. He's not a good basketball coach.
Phoenix would have been better off staying pat, keep Marion and when he opts out over the summer (which I assume he will do), they could've signed a guy like Elton Brand instead...
Now they are stuck with Shaq for the next 2 years paying him FORTY MILLION!!!
This is Kerr's "Darko" move...you know how on HoopsHype on the GM profiles it lists each GM's best and worst transaction...well this one will almost certainly go under the worst of Stever Kerr's when they get bounced in the 1st round this year...
I don't think they "had" to do this at all.
They were possibly a convenient David Stern suspension from winning it all last year.
I don't think you are spinning this Mo, but if anyone here tries to justify this deal if they barely make the playoffs or, even worse, miss them altogether, then that's crazy.
I completely forgot about that. That was such a bullshit call last year. Honestly, who wouldn't have loved a Suns-Cavs finals? Bad call Stern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
I didn't explain my point very well. My point is that the Shaq trade was horrible and stupid. It doesn't make sense with that team. But they weren't going to win anything with the team they had. They tried to win with that style and continued to lose. They needed to change something up. So they added a "dominant" post player in hopes that could possibly work. Even if there was a chance of it working, they had to try. It didn't, just like most of us predicted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
My point is that they wouldn't win with the old style, but they had to try something different. This wasn't it. It was stupid, but at least they tried to change it instead of trying the same broken formula every year.
the move looks awful, but they did have to try something.
yea, they could have stood pat, but then they could have watched andrew bynum score 200 pts in a quick 4 game sweep. thats what it would have been.
are they fucked right now? doesnt look good. but i still believe their chances against the lakers are better now than they were pre trade. and maybe thats all that matters?
i guess they could have S&T'd marion over the summer. i dont know though.
I guess it all depends on how close you think they were to getting to the Finals last year (where they would have beaten Cleveland).
I still think they were robbed, so I can't go along with the blanket "they weren't going to win anyways" rationale.
Taking on Shaq was a bad move both in a basketball sense (he's washed up) and a business sense (that contract is horrid).
If it ends as poorly as it might for this year's Suns, they may have to try and move Snaq again themselves this summer. No easy task, even with a huge expiring contract. Who will want to take the luxury tax hit?
Lastly, anybody else getting this fucking "Cavalier tickets" banner ad at the bottom of this thread? How depressing. Maybe Dan Gilbert found WTF?
shaq refusing duncan's help off the floor was classic. and thats part of it. shaq knows about toughness. the suns problem last year, as much as anything, was that they were the league's little buddy. thats not shaq.
holy cow! you ll see it on sportscenter for years. plus he jumped over the kids.
yes, its true. im a big shaq fan.