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I never said we'd refuse to go over the cap to sign ben. I dont believe that at all.
All reports are saying we're offering $12 million, which is very fucking fair.
If he doesnt like it, yes, he can go to chicago for $70+ million over the next 4 years. Be my guest.
Ok, I need to sleep dude, but we aren't in good shape for trade flexibility.
If we lose Ben, and can't easily trade CB or Dice (kickers), that leaves Sheed, or Rip because Tay is a BYC player. Everyone else on the roster makes peanuts (relatively, the average salary is around $5 million and no one outside the 6 make that).
I'll write it again, so you can stare at it and let it burn onto your retinas.
Ben walks without a S&T, that's suicide.
Trade flexibility? WTF?
Who are you going to trade?
Davis and his massive salary?
LMAO - there is no one to trade outside the Top 6.
If Ben walks we're fucked. End of story.
If ben signs for $15+ million we're fucked anyway. I'd rather have the flexibility, but that's just me.
As for the flexibility, we have cap space.
We have an expiring deal in dale davis we can use, the orlando pick, and the other 5 members of the "starting 6."
Last time I checked, we have pieces left to work with.
For the last fucking time- I DONT WANT BEN TO GO. But at the same time, if he left for anything except chandler, we'd be in ok shape. Not contenders anymore, but not awful either.
But if Ben signs back for too much, we'd be ok next year and totally fucked every year after that. Not a gamble i'd want to take.
I just hope ben takes the $ 12 million and is happy with being the richest no-offense player in history.
Refuse to go over the cap? We're over the cap now.
You mean the luxury tax threshold.
And yeah, we're probably offering him $12,000,000.
If we wanna spend the full MLE though you can also expect to see Davis dumped for a trade exception (hello Charlotte).
Then you might get Acker, Blalock and someone like Ronald Dupree on the team, with Hunter and MAYBE a veteran big man for cheap depth.
Bottom Line:
The Top 6 will be joined by Delfino and a MLE player.
Amir and Maxiell will get a shot at playing time and Hunter will be back for one last season.
Other than those guys it's cheap ass depth all the way.
No, we don't have the other 5. You missed that.
CB and Dice have trade kickers. Tay can only be traded for half of the value of his new deal.
That essentially leaves Sheed and Rip as dollar for dollar trade options.
So if Ben walks, and our starting Center is Dale Davis, how do you propose we shore up the team with a bonafide starting Center by trading away Rip or Sheed who are both relatively cheap considering their stature, skills and position?
Signing Ben to $12 million vs. $15 million means CRAP. Almost every contender is over the cap. Many of them paying tax. $3 or $6 million a year won't make a lick of difference if Joe intends to re-sign Wallace and Billups. We won't be under the cap again (read: flexibility) for years unless this team is completely torn down to brass tacks.
Enough with the vague references. You see better plans, lay them out.
Yeah, tell me that next year when billups is up for re-signing.Quote:
Originally Posted by themicrowave
We'll be contenders for one year, and then we'll be over the hill, capped out, and we'll have no way to get better.
Great plan.
I'm sorry, but you can't give ben a contract like that. You just can't. It's utterly irresponbile, considering his aging status in a league that keep legislating rules AGAINST him.
If we were coming off a title, then yeah you sacrifice the next 5 years to have another shot next season. But there's no sure thing we'll be any better next year than this year with the same starting 5.
Can't give a guy $70 million when he only plays one side of the floor.
And OK, as much as I'd hate to trade rip, joe would still have rip and sheed to work with, which is more than most teams.
The only thing that worries me about giving Ben those few extra million is that cheap ass owner of ours. He's likely to say "give him that, but we're cutting it off in other places, and we aren't adding Free Agents". Otherwise, it wouldn't be a problem. I'd just assume say give him as much as we can over 4 years. But Bill Davidson doesn't work that way. He's going to be cheap with the deal, and cheap with the moves afterwards because of the deal.
Not wanting to skyrocket over the luxury tax=cheap
LOL
If it was money well spent that would be one thing, but that would definately not be money well spent.
I'm sure we can go over the luxury tax, we just have to make sure it's money well-spent.
No matter what we're using the MLE this offseason. Joe's already gone on record with that.
Although, I don't see one realistic target that's worth the full MLE.
I agree - we should not pay Ben $15mil.
But $12mil is more than fair.
However, by the numbers we can't pay Ben that money and use the full MLE without going over the tax threshold.
If Davidson is a cheap prick then expect another trade for nothing or expect us not to use the full MLE.
We're at $46mil now, right?
Plus $12mil for Ben and $5mil for the MLE.
That's $63mil and this is our roster:
Ben, Sheed, Prince, Rip, Billups with Davis, Dice, Maxiell, Amir, Delfino on the bench.
If we bring back Acker and then sign Blalock that adds $1mil to the payroll and begins our tax bill.
Bringing back Hunter or Delk or ADDING any other veteran for the minimum adds another $1,100,000 to the payroll, and therefore adds that much to the tax bill.
If we use the BAE (costs $1,800,000) we're now up to $66.9 for our TEAM SALARY!
The tax bill, if that $63mil tax threshold is accurate? $3,900,000.
(by not using the BAE we can slash our tax bill to $2,100,000. Is that low enough for Billy D?)
BTW, that tax figure and the team salary also assumes we renounce ALL our trade exceptions.
How do we reduce our tax payments? Who almost clears our tax bill?
Dale Davis! Trading him to Charlotte for a future second round pick helps them out. They get closer to the minimum salary limit they have to spend, without fucking up their long-term structure.
We then only have a tax bill of $400,000. (IF we used the BAE)
I guess we could not re-sign Acker. That would mean we'd have no tax bill at all.
And if all that happened this is our roster
Ben, Sheed, Prince, Rip, Billups plus Dice, Maxiell, full MLE, Amir, Delfino, BAE, Hunter, Blalock.
Nice!