Is attending public school a right or a priviledge?
Printable View
Is attending public school a right or a priviledge?
What?
Schools aren't run by hippies. Schools often have multiple no tolerance policies and suspend kids for doing the smallest shit all the time. Teachers ignore all students, let alone the bullies, and administrators ignore teachers let alone the students.
If its a right than it's more difficult to take away, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Glan
I think these froot loops out here passed a law that says kids have to go to school or the parents can get thrown in jail. Not that they'd ever do that, but suposablee they can.
It's a privilege because it can be taken away for terrible behavior (what that is I don't know because I'm not a school admin). If it was a right, you'd have access to it regardless of what you did (like the right to an attorney, etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by Glan
The reason I ask the question is this, when parents are given a shot at a free education for their kids, if they fuck it up by being a poor parent, then what if they were to lose the priviledge and have to send their kids to private/reform school? Would that provide incentive for the parents to ensure that their kids fly straight?
Of course, it's not that simple. A lot of families wouldn't be able to afford private school, and then you've got more kids out running the streets instead of being in school, then we all have more problems.
It's unrealistic, but wouldn't it be great if public schools were actually valued as a priviledge instead of being taken for granted as an expectation?
^^ It's called juvie?
Man, some families don't have 2 parents and some parents work 2 jobs and some parents are on welfare and some people are just doing it tough, yo...
Then pay attention at school you stupid motherfucker so you can go to college, get a real fucking job and move your family up outta the shithole you currently call home.
Fuckers gotta be told, gotta be shown - you tease a kid - you get a beating. You smack a kid - you get a beating. You raise your fucking hand at another kid - you get a beating.
WTF happened to all them coaches that Hollywood has in the movies?
Why isn't Samuel visiting schools asking "What is your deepest fear"? and shit?
Kids need to be shown that there is authority and that THE authority is not to be fucked with.
The reason crime is rising and kids are all fucked up is because no parent has the time or energy to discipline their kids like back when I was growing up.
If I was late home and no one knew ahead of time I had to explain. If it happened again it was my ass.
Today? Kids go home from school to an empty house, break out the champagne glasses and the motherfucking condoms and put 2Pac on their iPods.
While I agree with the sentiment, discouraging a beating as being wrong by responding with a disciplinary beating of your own doesn't exactly reinforce the notion, IMO.
It starts with the kid's level of respect for the parents. If the kid respects and admires his parents, he's less likely to want to disappoint them by being a fuckup.
Yeah, but they have to let the thugs back in, or else they don't get the dollars associated with the student headcount.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
From a beancounter perspective, you balance the cost of the thugs vs. the worth of the thugs and see if it makes economic sense. It's an ugly choice any way you look at it.
Schools are supposed to eliminate name calling among kids? Good luck with that.
^ Pretty typical exageration from you.
I love how Tahoe wants this to be so black and white, but won't lay down any absolutes.
I don't know what the laws are that the school districts have to follow...then again, I prolly wouldn't take the time to do it anyway. I did post the basics, but I guess thats not good enough.
IMO, the problem is that the principals and teachers let too much slide. That may be cuz the districts don't back them up.
They need to get tougher, plain and simple.
What if it cost more money? Cause it does.
I'd balance it by cutting a few of the PHD's in the district that think they're so fucking important.
Those are the people who handle the discipline Tahoe. The assistant principals. They've all already been let go.
There are toooooooooo many PHDs at the top of school districts sucking toooooo much money from the kids.
Yeah, so just to be clear, you want to stop all the bully prevention shit, because as I said in my first post in this thread, the $ isn't worth it....right?
It's fun watching people learn.
*disclaimer, my wife has 2 PHDs and works in public schools.
Dude, come on, its been so long since I've been in school that I don't know the fucking rules.
My point is to get tougher with the bullies. If you can suspend a kid for missing a class here and there or getting into a lil consensual fisticuffs at a friday night football game, you can suspend the kids that are intimidating the nerdy kids.
Is that really so fucking hard to understand?
*disclaimer, my wife doesn't.
The only thing new in this story is that someone won a settlement in court. All the particulars have been around as long as there have been groups of kids.
^ But like Mxy and me were discussing...if the schools are going to start having to pay settlements for letting the bullies continue to bully, then maybe they should stop the bullies from bullying before they get their asses sued.
edit...Mxy disagreed, but just sayin.
Getting "tough" works great as feel-good rhetoric. Translated into actual policy... it's a quagmire. Once you get beyond obvious actions like fighting or shoving someone in a locker, good luck policing every kiddie he-said she-said billy was being a big meanie to my precious little johnny dispute.
The only way to avoid an abyss of ass-covering insanity in the schools is for that asinine court decision to be overturned on appeal.
Yes, you want to raise taxes to spend money on public schools. Loud and clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe
^ LMAO
Put the bourbon down.
No. Taxes are evil. So is spending. Any problem can be solved by a combination of wishful thinking and toughness. Unfunded mandates are magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermy
Here comes fag boy again.
^It's still like they take pride in being ignorant.
Bring back nuns and switches.
Actually, I half-agreed with you. Sure, schools can chase down bullies, but:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe
1) If they're getting dicked financially because of stupid bullying lawsuits, they have bigger problems than bullying. Bullying in schools is not some nationwide crisis AFAICT. Schools losing money due to unfunded mandates and stupid laws are, and this just adds more fuel to the fire.
2) Schools really should only be in the "stop bullying" business if they're given a funded and supported mandate to do so, and I see little evidence of that. As things stand currently, the "serious" bullies -- the sluggers, the thieves, the online fuckheads -- need to be punted to the cops, not handled inhouse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutz
Shit, she wishes she was better than me.
"consensual fisticuffs"
I'm glad they didn't think of hiring wardens for recess when I was in school.
Quote:
Broadway Elementary brought in Ms. Parker in January out of exasperation with students who, left to their own devices, used to run into one another, squabble over balls and jump-ropes or monopolize the blacktop while exiling their classmates to the sidelines. Since she started, disciplinary referrals at recess have dropped by three-quarters, to an average of three a week. And injuries are no longer a daily occurrence.
“Before, I was seeing nosebleeds, busted lips, and students being a danger to themselves and others,” said Alejandro Echevarria, the principal. “Now, Coach Brandi does miracles with 20 cones and three handballs.”
The school is one of a growing number across the country that are reining in recess to curb bullying and behavior problems, foster social skills and address concerns over obesity. They also hope to show children that there is good old-fashioned fun to be had without iPods and video games.
Playworks, a California-based nonprofit organization that hired Ms. Parker to run the recess program at Broadway Elementary, began a major expansion in 2008 with an $18 million grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. It has placed recess coaches in 170 schools in low-income areas of nine cities, including Boston, Washington and Los Angeles, and of Silicon Valley.
9 Teenagers Accused of Bullying That Led to Suicide
Quote:
It is not clear what some students at South Hadley High School expected to achieve by subjecting a freshman to the relentless taunting described by a prosecutor and classmates.
Certainly not her suicide. And certainly not the multiple felony indictments announced on Monday against several students at the Massachusetts school.
The prosecutor brought charges Monday against nine teenagers, saying their taunting and physical threats were beyond the pale and led the freshman, Phoebe Prince, to hang herself from a stairwell in January.
The charges were an unusually sharp legal response to the problem of adolescent bullying, which is increasingly conducted in cyberspace as well as in the schoolyard and has drawn growing concern from parents, educators and lawmakers.
In the uproar around the suicides of Ms. Prince, 15, and an 11-year-old boy subjected to harassment in nearby Springfield last year, the Massachusetts legislature stepped up work on an anti-bullying law that is now near passage. The law would require school staff members to report suspected incidents and principals to investigate them. It would also demand that schools teach about the dangers of bullying. Forty-one other states have anti-bullying laws of varying strength.
Here's a couple quotes taken out of their context from your article because I want to make a different point than the person bringing up the charges against the schools:
"sent her threatening text messages, day after day"
"Some of the students plotted against Ms. Prince on the Internet, using social networking sites"
Bullying isn't just about what happens at school. Schools aren't legally or technically equipped to subpoena texting records, engage Facebook, deal with the predictable 1st Amendment issues, etc. At the time it was reported a couple months ago, the school specified that the abuse mostly was cyberbullying:
http://www.boston.com/news/education...k_at_bullying/
and a bunch of follow-on articles suggest that's where the police's efforts were obviously focused (which is distinct from where they might have been less-obviously focused). And consider this bit:
"threw a canned drink at her as she walked home"
This reportedly happened outside of school grounds. There's only so much a school can be expected to do beyond school grounds. Dunno about Massachusetts, but in Michigan, the crossing guards for kids walking to/from school are funded, vetted, and trained by the police, not the schools.
I really don't want to see schools on the hook for activity that happens beyond school grounds. I really don't want to see untrained, undeputized schools have all the same powers that the police does for students and other individuals while on school grounds. Don't turn schools administrators into kiddie cops. Nothing about this tragic death does anything but reinforce this.
As an aside, I think I'd have been in love if an attractive girl with an honest-to-blarney Irish accent and background were in my freshman high school class. Sad, just sad.