Tay's back injury

Except about this time last year we had one of the best record in the NBA and I was telling everybody the team was fucked and the coach was terrible, long before anybody got a whiff of it, because I was actually looking at the big picture and not the standings.

You want embarrassing? Think a look back a year ago at some of you defending Michael Curry when you had absolutely no clue why you thought he was a good coach. But our record was good and Curry still had his tough guy rep among fans, so one by one, you followed the popular opinion, like little lemmings.

I don't have no answer to shit. My stance on these issues speaks for itself, because I don't equate being a hindsight-driven negative asshole with being right. But I do know that this team is in much, much better shape than last year's.

The idea that I side with Joe on everything isnt true by a longshot. Do I side with him more often than the majority here? Absolutely. But here's a little secret: Joe's probably a lot smarter at this than the rest of us. Agreeing often with the guy voted "best GM of the decade" doesn't make me look like the stupid one. And I've logically backed by every opinion. Half the shit thrown against Joe in the forum is devoid of all reasoning and logic. Half the time I'm not even sure its written in English.

And I have no intention of debating on an even level with Glan or Mick because neither of them is on the same level as me. They take zero accountability for shit. Neither of them actually argues looking for a response, they just want to rant aimlessly to get attention. All debating idiots like that will do is give them an additional 15 posts of them regurgitating the same revisionist shit over and over again as they make up history on the fly to support their own jaded opinions.

At this point, I don;t even care if you call me a fanboy, because if Glan is the poster child for what amounts to a credible fan in this forum, I want no part of it. I'll wear the fanboy shit as a badge of honor if thats the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kstat

That is most definitely NOT an option Joe had.

1. Sheed was not ever going to be welcomed back after last season. If you saw even %5 of his games you'd know why. He went portland on us and quit on the team. That was unforgivable. It was time for him and his negative attitude to go someplace that didnt require him to show up to work every day.

First things first: The next fucker to assume I don't watch games is gonna get a fucking punch through his moniter. I am so fucking sick and tired of reading that shit it blows my fucking mind.

I probably spend more hours watching games than you cunts do, since I gotta watch all the fucking highlights of EVERY game to stay up to date with all teams and then I download games that I wanna watch as well.

So fuck off with that bullshit.

Secondly - I'm sure Sheed is fine with you speaking about him that way. After all, you know what he was thinking, what he was being told by Curry and what was really going on in the locker room.

Oh, that's right - you don't. So if you wanna sell the "he was done" line sell it to someone who might buy it.

I'll stick with my What if scenario of Big Ben, Sheed and Dice returning.

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2. They were more than willing to bring back Dice. Nobody wanted him to leave. He left on his own for another chance at a ring.

They were more than willing? Explain how one can be more than willing... seriously they found over $8 million for dudes not named Antonio McDyess. Why give that money to Nova and Wilcox instead of staying the course?

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Also, you can't deliver a solution that entails giving big money to over the hill guys past their 30s, when the entire fanbase was bitching about going with a youth movement.

Who said anything about big money? You take the combined salary of Wilcox and Nova and split it between Sheed and Dice. Is that big money? On ONE or maybe (doubtful) TWO year contracts.

And who the fuck wanted a youth movement? I wanted a talent movement. I wanted a new Coach. I wanted some help for our guys. Not a total rebuild.

Or did you just assume that since you and Joe wanted a youth movement everyone else would be over the moon about it?

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Now we're 2-4 and all of a sudden its cool to bring in vets at any price to win a little more right now? Oh fuck no. My tolerance for hypocrisy has its limits.

Again - "vets at any price". Is it "big money" or "at any price", Kstat? I never said a word about big money or at any price. And the current record has nothing to do with any of this.

This is all about running the franchise and how not being smarter has sent Prince onto the IL and hurt his trade value.

And show me my hypocrisy, PLEASE!

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We signed the two best young free agents on the market. Does it suck that one of them plays the same position as rip? Sure, but at this point in time the pistons arent in a position to turn down young talent. And one of them has been the best player on the team this season. Want doom and gloom? Picture this season without Ben Gordon and we're most likely 0-6.

Couldn't agree more (though maybe Nova wasn't the 2nd best FA on the market. But I'll let it go cause I think he's got a bunch of talent).

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Tayshaun might not be out more than a month. All the hang wringing over something as stupid as a ruptured disc is laughable. He absolutely can still be traded, as long as someone actually wants to give up something of value for him.

Speaking from exprience back issues linger and if it's ruptured then that's really fucking serious. And consider he isn't sitting at a desk or stacking shelves or driver a forklift - dude is bending and stretching and going "all out" on a basketball court, getting his body into a ton of awkward positions. Not good.

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And as has already been fucking mentioned, the Pistons have TWO rookies that are looking pretty good right now, and a third that will see some time at some point this season. That's not a terrible result from having Tayshaun out so far, and its also not bad for a GM that everyone seems to think is incompetent, to find several contributors in a draft everybody was shitting on to begin with.

Every moron shit on the Draft. I told y'all a week before that it was gonna be good. It happens every year. But yes, good job Joe for getting 3 talented dudes in the Draft. The near-blind squirel found some nuts.

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This is my problem with people like glan. They love to hold others accountable, but take absolutely no responsibility for what they say. Whatever way the win is blowing, they act like that has been their crusade all along. By next week, the popular opinion will totally change again to something else that happens, and he will act like he's been talking about it for years.

I guess I'm nothing like Glan, then? I've only been going on and on after Joe's draft record for the last HOW many years? And wasn't I the one constantly asking WHY Joe chose to go this route and bring back "our" guys and a new Coach?

Popular opinion is for all you fucking sheep that give a shit if Herm, Glenn, Fool or Mo think you're cool. Maybe you think you'll all meet up and see a game, or a movie or maybe Uncle Mxy will take you to a Chinese restaurant he likes or maybe Tahoe will walk through a house he's building.

Fuck All That Shit!

I ain;t EVER gonna meet any of you so why the fuck would I care about popular opinion. I think the way I do cause I'm a grown fucking man and if you don't like my opinion please plead your case.

And if you ain't willing to plead your case fuck right off so I can go to bed.

P, the "you" in my post wasn't about "you" it was referring to anyone reading this. That's the second time in about a week that that same thing has happened, so I need to be more conscious of that, lol.

As for Sheed, I really think you are beating the wrong drum wondering why he wasn't brought back. While Joe has been fumbling decisions left and right lately, I give him credit for realizing that it was time to part ways with him. Joe's got 99 problems right now, but at least Sheed's not one of them. If he was going to dump all this $ into getting younger, the last thing he needed was Sheed's influence on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kstat

Except about this time last year we had one of the best record in the NBA and I was telling everybody the team was fucked and the coach was terrible, long before anybody got a whiff of it, because I was actually looking at the big picture and not the standings.

Good for you. I'm happy you have a moment in time where you disagreed with the franchise and it was proven right.

I wasn't here then (love cave).

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You want embarrassing? Think a look back a year ago at some of you defending Michael Curry when you had absolutely no clue why you thought he was a good coach. But our record was good and Curry still had his tough guy rep among fans, so one by one, you followed the popular opinion, like little lemmings.

You followed? Me? Are you sure? Or was I not fucking here?

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I don't have no answer to shit. My stance on these issues speaks for itself, because I don't equate being a hindsight-driven negative asshole with being right. But I do know that this team is in much, much better shape than last year's.

Yes, hindsight presents real problems. But does that mean negative? Or am I merely wondering WHY our scouts do such a poor fucking job and their poor performance costs the franchise?

Mmmmmm, maybe we should all wonder how our scouting department actually works and what they do to seperate themselves from the other teams?

Nah, fuck that. Let's just accept whatever they fucking do and hope for the best.

Have you ever run a business with more than 1 department, Kstat? Did those departments answer to you? Did you turn a blind eye when they fucked up consistently over a period of time?

Oh, and I agree with you (SHOCK! HORROR! AWE!) that this team as currently constructed is in better shape than we were last season. Having a decent Coach helps a lot too.

Quote:

The idea that I side with Joe on everything isnt true by a longshot. Do I side with him more often than the majority here? Absolutely. But here's a little secret: Joe's probably a lot smarter at this than the rest of us. Agreeing often with the guy voted "best GM of the decade" doesn't make me look like the stupid one. And I've logically backed by every opinion. Half the shit thrown against Joe in the forum is devoid of all reasoning and logic. Half the time I'm not even sure its written in English.

Like him being ultimately responsible for our drafting?

Oh, and I might not "side" with Joe but that doesn't mean I can't see what he's seeing. He saw Gordon and Nova as get-able free agents and he went and got them. They can score and that's the new league. Team with Stuckey and a big to be named later and it's all good.

I understand that - I just didn't agree with it as I didn;t think Sheed/Dice were spent forces yet. Did they need help? Yes. Did we need Gordon? Hell yes.

My scenario, under CBA rules is do-able. Until proven otherwise that was the route I woulda went.

A

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nd I have no intention of debating on an even level with Glan or Mick because neither of them is on the same level as me. They take zero accountability for shit. Neither of them actually argues looking for a response, they just want to rant aimlessly to get attention. All debating idiots like that will do is give them an additional 15 posts of them regurgitating the same revisionist shit over and over again as they make up history on the fly to support their own jaded opinions.

WOW! Thank fuck you don't think so poorly of me.

LMAO @ Glan right now. Sorry GD.

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At this point, I don;t even care if you call me a fanboy, because if Glan is the poster child for what amounts to a credible fan in this forum, I want no part of it. I'll wear the fanboy shit as a badge of honor if thats the case.

Glan = credible? I don;t know lol

I call you a fanbiy because it seems like you go out of your way to support Joe. Like during the off-season you stated you like the Boston assistant as a head coaching candidate and that you like Johnny Q too (I'll be fair - you did say you liked them both).

But once Q got hired you were all over it - you fell in line pretty quickly.

If that were me I would of been a little less enthusiastic, and probably woulda got into a debate about the pros and cons of Tommy Boy from Boston.

You didn't. I found that odd.

But, just cause I can't work you out doesn't mean we all can't get along...

And I'm really hurt that Kstat doesn't feel like I'm "on his level" on a message board. Now if I had just gotten a mention in the Free Press maybe he'd feel differently? But hey, I exchanged emails with McCosky, shouldn't that count for SOMETHING?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glan

P, the "you" in my post wasn't about "you" it was referring to anyone reading this. That's the second time in about a week that that same thing has happened, so I need to be more conscious of that, lol.

Yeah, you should be lol.

Quote:

As for Sheed, I really think you are beating the wrong drum wondering why he wasn't brought back. While Joe has been fumbling decisions left and right lately, I give him credit for realizing that it was time to part ways with him. Joe's got 99 problems right now, but at least Sheed's not one of them. If he was going to dump all this $ into getting younger, the last thing he needed was Sheed's influence on them.

Fuck Me!

Reading is FUN-damental.

What fucking money? In my scenario he (Joe) went out and signed Ben Gordon. The only youth movement would have been at the end of the bench when Summers, Walls of and Daye shifted seats.

You bring back Big Ben and Dice to keep Sheed in check PLUS you got a real coach on the sideline. I'm not saying Sheed woulda been a golden child but fuck - I'd rather have my 14 than the one we have now, even if it's only for one or 2 years.

I guess I wasn't willing to let the good times die...

Whatever though - past is the past.

I just wish that now I'm watching/downloading all these games I could of seen Ben/Sheed/Dice in action cause the first go round it had to be a really special game cause I was buying them from pontel.com

Not getting younger was not an option. It just wasn't.

So after signing a young Ben Gordon to join a young Rodney Stuckey and 3 young rookies you want more youth?

IMO that's enough of a youth movement for 1 off-season.

1. The Pistons DID try to resign Dice. He chose San Antonio, who was also in a position to offer more cash, and Joe had to go with his plan B of Wilcox.

As far as bringing in Dice back over Wilcox AND V? Why? Our record might not be any better right this year with Dice instead of V, and there's nothing for the long term, plus nothing for next summer, because Dice was demanding a 2-year deal.

Any free agents joe signed to cap-eating deals HAD to be young, because it effectively took him out of next year's free agency. He didnt have the option of going into next summer capped out AND in need of a youth infusion.

2. I never mentioned you specifically when I bought up last year and Curry.

3. Absolutely I have someone in my department that is a total fuck up at times. But she's also the best option by far at what she does, so we grit our teeth and bear the mistakes. Our department is at an all time high efficiency level partly because of her, despite the big ass headaches she gives me.

4. Sheed and Dice right now are doing okay as 6th men. Are they spent forces yet? No, but they arent going to be on this team when we ever get back to the finals, either. We needed a younger big to build with. Hopefully we got two, maybe a third in Summers.

5. Our scouts have either been replaced or are doing a much better job of late if we're pulling quality prospects out of Sweeden and Eastern Washington.

6. I wasnt on high on Kuester as Thibodeau mainly because I was much more familiar with Thibideau, which I said at the time. Like you said, I had nothing against Kuester, either. I did note that there were several things about his background I really liked, but I had no clue what his X's and O's were, like I did about Thibodeau. I didnt bash the decision because I really had no idea what Kuester's gameplan was. How am I supposed to not like a decision i dont have a lot of insight on?

Shit, given his background, it was assumed by everybody, including me, that Kuester was an offensive guy. So far, he's done a fantastic job of getting his guys to play defense.

If I didnt like what I saw from Q this year as a coach, you bet your ass I'd be pissed about passing on Thibideau. But I don't like to play the hindsight game, so I was going to wait until he gave me a reason to not like him. So far, he's been very good.

Damnit. I leave for a few hours and look what happens.

The rest of your post I'm gonna move away from, not because I don't wanna debate but because it's real late and the past is the past but I really had to do this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kstat

We have scouts for this franchise that are total fuck ups most of the time. They're not the best option at what they do, but we grit our teeth and bear the mistakes. The scouting department is so hit and miss because of them. They're a big ass headache.

fixed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoTown

Damnit. I leave for a few hours and look what happens.

It's the nature of the boards, Mo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoTown

Damnit. I leave for a few hours and look what happens.

It's what Gleen wanted, he considers fights about bs subjects "a way to spark up the forum".

is this still about Tay's injury?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Asberry

is this still about Tay's injury?

No, never was. When you say shit like "i'm mad at Joe D for not trading Tay because now he's injured" you are on a whole other agenda. One that can never end with ideas like that.

Defend away. I'm pissed because a guy that should have been moved, for the long-term betterment of the team, wasn't, and now his value is most likely permanently diminished.
It's fine (and expected) that you are okay with that. I'd rather we stop shooting ourselves in the foot and get back to being contenders ASAP.
I know it makes you feel better to keep directing the subject back to me, but the subject is Tay and Joe's decision not to move him this summer. Got anything of value to contribute on the subject?

But...but... Glan...

I wish I had time to read all of that.

It will also be interesting to see how the decision to not move Tay and/or Rip's salaries effects our ability/willingness to retain Bynum.
And by "interesting" I mean "maddening".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glan

P, the "you" in my post wasn't about "you" it was referring to anyone reading this. That's the second time in about a week that that same thing has happened, so I need to be more conscious of that, lol.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/DES/D834.jpg
...can prevent bad GM decisions.

Is this the game thread?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glan

It will also be interesting to see how the decision to not move Tay and/or Rip's salaries effects our ability/willingness to retain Bynum.
And by "interesting" I mean "maddening".

It won't have any impact at all, at least not on our ability. Pistons will be over the cap, but well under the tax amount. Bynum is a restricted free agent.

dammit shags. I wanted to let him bury himself in his own whining before dropping that little nugget on him....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kstat

dammit shags. I wanted to let him bury himself in his own whining before dropping that little nugget on him....

Don't even THINK I'm on your side here. Your pompous and arrogant attitude towards multiple posters on multiple boards overshadows your wealth of NBA knowwledge, and it has for years. It IS possible to have a disagreement with someone without belittling them in the process.

I only belittle people who have exhausted my patience, after years of using tact and diplomacy. There are a whole two such people on this board. Grow up. As far as I'm concerned, if you're coming into a discussion uninformed and you lodge your foot in your mouth, you had it coming. If you're saying the moon is made of cheese, I can only humor you for so long. At some point, I'm going to break off a moon rock and drop it on you.

Also, you're the last person here I'd ever accuse of being on my side. Please.

We discussed the Bynum situation earlier this week, and forgive me if I don't have the salary situation memorized a week into the season. There will be plenty of time to discuss that this season, so it seems.

And criticism for that post was warranted, I should have just left it as "how will it effect their willingness to resign bynum". I did fuck that up.

Glan vs Kstat is like Germany vs Russia in WWII.

Yes, this is still about Tay's injury.

His injury is partly caused by us not having a real back-up for him since we won the title. That's a long time people.

While it might appear Glenn has "taken stupid pills" I have to agree with him that as an organisation we have not done enough to lessen the load on our star players.

Rip finally has a quality back up, but before now he's suffered through Delfino and Mo Evans. Billups had Hunter as the back up PG, or Chucky. Ben and Sheed had guys like Soup, Dale Davis, Cato - guys on their last legs. And Tay had Dupree lol

Since winning the title we pretty much killed our depth which once again brings me back to drafting/scouting. By not finding decent players, or guys that could really fucking contribute we put more miles on our starters.

The lack of signing better players with the MLE due to poor choices or an organisation mandate just compounds the poor drafting. If you're not finding cheap quality talent in the Draft and you're not signing good quality talent with the MLE then you're pretty much screwed.

No big deal if the organisation is not making the playoffs - but when they are going to 6 or 7 games in most playoff series and making the ECF every fucking year for ages at some point in time it adds up.

Tay's injury is the extreme end of the scale of it adding up, but Sheed's lack of caring/production last season could have been brought on by all this too (and Curry being useless). Don't forget Rip's injuries. It seems like every season he suffers some kind of complaint.

Bottom line is that Tay's injury shines a light on other situations that could have partially caused this.

If people wanna bury their heads in the sand and not question the organisation and how things have been handled since the title then I don't know what to say.

I stopped reading when everyone declared they were the only one to call something that no one else saw coming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shags

Don't even THINK I'm on your side here. Your pompous and arrogant attitude towards multiple posters on multiple boards overshadows your wealth of NBA knowwledge, and it has for years. It IS possible to have a disagreement with someone without belittling them in the process.

This post is great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fool

I stopped reading when everyone declared they were the only one to call something that no one else saw coming.

This post is great.

Bubbles, can you have an alternate signature with every prediction you made that turned out to be false?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glan

Defend away. I'm pissed because a guy that should have been moved, for the long-term betterment of the team, wasn't, and now his value is most likely permanently diminished.
It's fine (and expected) that you are okay with that. I'd rather we stop shooting ourselves in the foot and get back to being contenders ASAP.
I know it makes you feel better to keep directing the subject back to me, but the subject is Tay and Joe's decision not to move him this summer. Got anything of value to contribute on the subject?

You're angry under the pretense of Tay getting injured which you and anyone else could not for see. You're also angry under the idea that you know what's best for the team you have to share with me and everyone else. Furthermore you even decide to peg anyone who dosnt agree with your bitching as being ok with Tay being severely injured. Sounds Kstat level delusional imo.

So back to the subject... It's hardly a unique opinion that Tay should have been moved this summer, there are multiple threads about it, and pretty sure that I'm not the only one here that felt that he was due to start breaking down. The combination of the high mileage, poor production, the inconsistency/total disappearance s that we all have seen, his age, his salary, the direction of the team, the acquisition of capable replacements, etc made it clear that he should have been moved. And now he wears the scarlet letter of "damaged goods" and that sucks, regardless of who said what and when.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laxation

This post is great.

Bubbles, can you have an alternate signature with every prediction you made that turned out to be false?

Those are called posts.

I guess no one read post #69?

Probably too busy with the petty wars this place has been engulfed by?

So fucking disappointing.

I have no idea why I even attempt to discuss shit on here anymore.

You guys can go back and forth with the Glenn v Kstat or Mo or Fool or Gutz shit all you like. The next time I wanna post something that actually relates to basketball and the organisation I might send Glenn or Kstat a PM.

At least I'll get some heated discussion from them.

I find the petty little battles some of you hold onto pathetic. I disagree with Kstat quite often yet I don't bring that shit up every time we have a discussion.

Fuck I wish some people could be a little more mature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

You guys can go back and forth with the Glenn v Kstat or Mo or Fool or Gutz shit all you like. The next time I wanna post something I'll probably be already gone again anyway.

What a shame. Who will we get to come in and play the condescending mother-in-law role while you're gone?

This thread is Blossoming(tm) all wrong. That's just fucking http://need4sheed.com/images/not_tayriffic.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glan

And now he wears the scarlet letter of "damaged goods" and that sucks, regardless of who said what and when.

Hardly anything to justify the original "Anger of Nostradamus" post. Again no one would like this, and it does suck. Doesn't make me mad that we didn't trade him since you would have to know he was going to have a ruptured disc for it to be relevant.

Well, for all of you silver lining types, I guess the bright side is that next year he's an $11m expiring contract. Hopefully he can return at some point this year and demonstrate that he can stay healthy. The rooks will get lots of PT, too, of course, and hopefully we'll be able to tell who is going to stake a claim on that position going forward.