TRADE: Shaq to the Suns for Marion/Banks (OLD THREAD)

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Originally Posted by The Mailman

BREAKING NEWS: My pal just informed me that the Shaq to Phoenix trade will happen.

Man, I'm awesome.

Terrible panic move for phoenix.

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Originally Posted by Tahoe

I don't expect them to be utter shit or something.

I do.

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Originally Posted by Fool

Its wierd to think of using the big man (rather than a point guard) to change tempo for only half the game. That's some real discipline to be expected from Nash and co but I've no problem with giving Nash the benefit of the doubt and he ran a more iso oriented offense in Dallas.

I can see the point of this being essentially an upgrade to how they use Skinner but losing Marion would seem to be a high price to pay for doing that.

I can appreciate the philosophy that the Suns have to have a big man presence to get anywhere but they got damn far without that presence last year and the Spurs don't look anything like they did last year so far (and even with Kobe, I don't see Gasol as as much of a threat as Duncan inside). Its all just opinion on my side too. I've been wrong before.

Marion wanted out either way, and I think it'll be helpful for Hill with Shaq in much like it was with Howard and Hill last year. I think Marion is High quality but not an MVP to their success on defense. Not because of anything he does wrong, but more because he's playing too much PF with their lack of truly solid big men.. IMO going to the basket on stoudemire and Shaq isnt something that'll work out well. In fact as a PF i expect Stoudemire to get more Blocks not having to play center and being able to help out.

I think they'll be better but as you say, i've been wrong a few times myself.

What's the combined age of Shaq, Nash, and Hill? 200? lol

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Originally Posted by The Mailman

What's the combined age of Shaq, Nash, Brian Skinner, and Hill? 200? lol

ha, well done.

I agree with everyone that thinks the Heat totally ripped off the Suns. The clear the horrible salary, get a healthy stud in return, and they're done with the drama.
DWade + Marion + possibly the top pick in the draft? Come on. I hate it when the Heat find a way to get amazing results even in an embarrassing season.

i think its a win / win. both teams got what they wanted.

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Originally Posted by Jethro34

I agree with everyone that thinks the Heat totally ripped off the Suns. The clear the horrible salary, get a healthy stud in return, and they're done with the drama.
DWade + Marion + possibly the top pick in the draft? Come on. I hate it when the Heat find a way to get amazing results even in an embarrassing season.

Yea because outside of Wade and Butler, they draft like monsters :) .....Marion Will have to get torn off a big ass salary to stay in Miami, and odds are he'll go to a bigger contender. So I dont know how much equating to next year you can do as far as marion goes. I can see w/o Shaq Wade is under more pressure as a TO machine trying to do it all w/o that help defender being taken away. They(marion/wade) are an ok combo but not anything close to the Jordan/Pippen level they'd need to be for me to see how they are a threat to do anything significant.

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Originally Posted by Codename V

They(marion/wade) are an ok combo but not anything close to the Jordan/Pippen level they'd need to be for me to see how they are a threat to do anything significant.

They may not be a "threat" for a while, but they were totally fucked by Shaq's contract and now they are not.

[smilie=heatsmiley2:

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Originally Posted by Glenn

They may not be a "threat" for a while,

I'm going to go out on a limb and say never. I think Marion bolts.

I do agree that financially might as well get Shaq off the books since you've found a away to destroy your supporting cast as badly as they have. [smilie=heatsmiley2:

V really loves that Miami Heat emoticon.

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Originally Posted by Codename V

I'm going to go out on a limb and say never. I think Marion bolts.

I do agree that financially might as well get Shaq off the books since you've found a away to destroy your supporting cast as badly as they have. [smilie=heatsmiley2:

But with Wade, and a bit of cap space, and a top 5 pick......They could put something together. Always fear the refs.

where is marion gonna find more $ than in miami? he's made it pretty clear that winning isnt priority #1 w/ him. i think hes pretty likely to stay.

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Originally Posted by Codename V

I'm going to go out on a limb and say never. I think Marion bolts.

I do agree that financially might as well get Shaq off the books since you've found a away to destroy your supporting cast as badly as they have.

They are better off if Marion walks IMO. They can go get Brand and Maggs or Artest, plus add their draft pick to the mix. Add a those to a top scorer (and ref favorite) and a solid rebounder/defender in Haslem and you have a good team.

If Marion stays, they are cap strapped again and better hit a home run with their pick or they'll simply be a good but not great team for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Hermy

But with Wade, and a bit of cap space, and a top 5 pick......They could put something together. Always fear the refs.

Noted. You are correct. But ever since Riley took over their draft/FA moves have been horrible. IMO I think he needs more help doing all that. Since he wont get it, i see them slipping on the banana peel again. They'll always be a threat to get Ft's though, but I see wade becoming injury prone with less help and more pressure to do it all.

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Originally Posted by Codename V

Noted. You are correct. But ever since Riley took over their draft/FA moves have been horrible. IMO I think he needs more help doing all that. Since he wont get it, i see them slipping on the banana peel again. They'll always be a threat to get Ft's though, but I see wade becoming injury prone with less help and more pressure to do it all.

I don't think anyone can mess up the FA moves with Marion gone though (assuming the FA's would want to go there). You can grab Brand or JO to play along side Haslem (i'd take Brand), and Maggs or Artest to play SF and take the harder defensive assignment off of Wade. Then draft the best PG in the draft and you are all set. It doesn't seem like you could really mess that up, unless the big FA's won't come and you start filling in with 2nd rate guys that you may overpay.

Of course you can always draft a bust too.

FA's will always want to go to Miami.

The weather, South Beach and NO income taxes.

I agree. So I think unless Miami is dumb enough to give Marion a raise, they should be in great shape.

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Originally Posted by WTFchris

I agree. So I think unless Miami is dumb enough to give Marion a raise, they should be in great shape.

They probably are though i think theres a dumber team than them out there to pay him more, But as you have seen being a hot spot doesnt equate to great FA pick ups. Its still a matter of choosing the guys you sign. If being a hot area was all it took, the clippers would be perennial contenders.

The Lakers steal all their guys. Like when Kobe signed with the Lakers instead.

joe says 'wait and see' on how good the shaq deal is. thanks for the insight, joe.

obviously, if shaq cant get healthy, it doesntwork. but nash feeding shaq will lead to lots of easy shaq dunks. if phx still wants to shoot in 7 seconds or less, that offense works 4 on 5 anyway.

Would be better for him to be dominating West teams instead of the Pistons and fucking putting a one man break on for a layup like he did vs. us in 06, so I don't care. :/

When does Marion start playing for the Heat?

Man, talk about a fucked-up trade!

Good work Miami.

The Suns got destroyed in this deal. They ditched their best cutter, rebounder, and perimeter defender for an old, fat, overpriced piece of goo. Shaq CANNOT play defense, sucks at defending the pick and roll, can't rebound, can't block shots, is slow, and cannot stay in the game for more than 2 minutes because of fatigue and the possibility of getting injured. How will the Suns set up their offense when it takes Shaq 20 seconds to cross halfcourt?

Before the trade, they had a shot at the second round. Now, they'll get humiliated in the 1st. The Suns will get pick and rolled to death like Shaq's Heat were last year. Chris Paul, Brandon Roy, AI, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Jason Terry, and especially Kobe are licking their chops.

Oh man, Chris Paul running the P&R with an athletic Tyson Chandler.....

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Originally Posted by Zekyl

The Lakers steal all their guys. Like when Kobe signed with the Lakers instead.

Donald Sterling was tighter with money than Bill Davidson. The only reason he's loosened up is because of the cap rules that actually penalize teams for paying too little in salaries.

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Originally Posted by ESPN Weekend Dime

The bonus? In O'Neal, Phoenix brought in the one guy who Stoudemire will listen to more than anyone else in the league, which could be a crucial step in Amare's development if Shaq is serious when he says, "This is the Amare Stoudemire Project for me."
Said Kerr, "Amare respects him so much and needs him physically."

I loved it when Kerr said he was a genius if it worked and a moron if it didn't.

people down on this trade i think underestimate how smart shaq is. also how good dantoni is at making pieces work. and i think shaq's ego will be about making it work, not making sure he is the focus of phx' team. he's already shown in miami that he can adjust.

IF he can play with relative health, i have no doubt this trade will benefit phx.

I definitely think Shaq is motivated to prove all the naysayers wrong, but I just don't think he has the physical tools left to do so. I can see flashes of his former self, but I have no doubt this trade will benefit Miami in the short- and long-term.

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Originally Posted by defrocked

I definitely think Shaq is motivated to prove all the naysayers wrong, but I just don't think he has the physical tools left to do so. I can see flashes of his former self, but I have no doubt this trade will benefit Miami in the short- and long-term.

Well said. Defrocked has made me a believer.

When the fuck is this guy going to play?

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Originally Posted by defrocked

I definitely think Shaq is motivated to prove all the naysayers wrong, but I just don't think he has the physical tools left to do so. I can see flashes of his former self, but I have no doubt this trade will benefit Miami in the short- and long-term.

His physical tools were "push, shove, dunk, hook, pass on double team, rinse, repeat". I think they are still there.

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Originally Posted by Codename V

His physical tools were "push, shove, dunk, hook, pass on double team, rinse, repeat". I think they are still there.

I agree. He simply won't run with them when they push the ball. But he'll still be dominating in the post in the half court set.

And the Suns would still be a better team with Marion, IMO.

well see. as it stood, they had 0.0% chance of hanging with the lakers in a 7 game series.

now they have 2 monsters in the paint that could make things interesting.

you have to keep in mind that every time the lakers played phx this year, bynum had a career game.

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Originally Posted by Glenn

And the Suns would still be a better team with Marion, IMO.

in the fastbreak only. In the halfcourt they'll be better with Hill/Shaq/Stoudemire/ and jump shooters. Hill is another factor, he can be effective in the halfcourt as a primary ball handler and scorer. I think him and shaq will work well together. In the halfcourt Marion gives you rebounding, but his 3 point shot is streaky, his post game is also streaky. If you arent pushing the ball, you arent getting his best. He didnt want to be in phoenix, so its not like they lost the franchise guy who was going to be there next year.

Other than not being the top dog, I still don't understand why he didn't want to be in Phoenix. He was making great money and he was in the perfect system for his style of play. The only factor seems to be pecking order. - Nash, Stoudamire, then Marion.