Rodney Stuckey assessment, to date (from January 2008)

even if stucky were a pg in college (i have virtually no idea, never heard of him before we talked about drafting him), most incoming pg's take time to develop.

look at jay william's rookie year for example. he was about as nba ready as it gets, and he wasnt exactly a world beater... chris pauls truly are the exception.

the comparison to wade is very apt. look at his rookie year. he didnt really emerge as a phenom til the 2nd half of the year. i suspect maybe by the end of this year, or going into next year, its going to get very tough to keep him off the court.

and i really dont get the flip comparison. from what ive seen, stucky plays a ton without the ball (kind of like he's learning both guard spots, awfully tough to do for a rookie). RS looks to me like Joe's best pick ever, which is saying something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

Also, it was repeatedly stated by the organization (and their mouthpieces) that Stuckey is indeed a PG, and that he played it extensively in college. So we can't have it both ways, either we were misled/lied to, or he's not playing the PG position for the first time.

BTW, I'm not completely sold on Stuckey. I just think he's better than Flip Murray (then again, I'd rather play 4 on 5 than have Flip Murray in the lineup he's that much of a detriment) In fact I believe I made a statement that I wanted no part of stuckey come draft day. I don't like "tweener" guards that are best at getting to the bucket but don't have the hops to finish like a d-wade. I also don't like guys that play for mid-major schools and are only good enough to lead them to .500 records.

With that being said, he's quicker off the dribble than I thought and I'm willing to give him a chance. Then again, I'm not a big believer in Joe Dumars' ability to draft quality players anymore. It can't always be the coaches fault for not playing young guys. Maybe these young guys aren't good enough.

And we constantly get spoonfed misinformation by this organization such as when they try to tell us we're legit championship contenders with a bad coach and pretty good but not great players. If they are saying we are contenders then we as fans have the right to be critical. If they are saying we are playing for the future then I may decide to think differently.

And Flip Murray can't score, he just shoots a lot. Javis Hayes is slowly moving into this territory as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geerussell

I'm sold. I don't remember ever being promised a superstar. He can be a success well short of that.

i ment to say this too. he doesnt have to be a "superstar" to be a success. i suspect he'll make it to an allstar game at some point, though.

pros:

lightning quick
tall for position
caveman length arms
already leading team in steals per game

cons
non i can see that arent correctable

dont worry, this was an A+ pick by joe.

I wish we could go back and see what half of you were saying about Tayshaun after 3 weeks played...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kstat

I wish we could go back and see what half of you were saying about Tayshaun after 3 weeks played...

I'm a little vague on that. As I recall, Prince wasn't hyped nearly as much as Stuckey but then the stakes were a lot lower too, the pistons weren't expected to make a ton of noise at the time.

I do remember that Prince was a bit wobbly as a rookie. He got some run in the early part of the season but after 30 games or so Carlisle pretty much threw him on the shelf and forgot about him all season until they were down 3-1 against Orlando.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geerussell

Flip and Joe certainly seem to be committed to doing everything possible to develop him.

And to me thats the defining factor. They weren't even this dedicated to Darko, which says something.

flashes of good things (quick first step, ability to absorb contact, gets steals, sweet passes), but there are plenty of rookie-type mistakes. enough mistakes to make me hold my judgement a little longer. i really wish he had the luxury of playing the entire season up to this point.

i think Stuckey's got it tough because he's trying to learn FlipS's offensive plays. most of the time i see Stuckey take it himself, is after the first few options have broken down. i'd like to see Stuckey given the green light to find his shot a little more. that will lead to defenses collapsing on him and he can find open guys.

i'd really, really, really, really, really like Stuckey to run more pick and roll plays. Unlike Chauncey, Stuckey seems to get rid of the ball quicker on the P/R, leading to open guys. Chauncey isn't a real great P/R PG, and i think our team would benefit from running the P/R play more often.

flip called stuckey the best pick n roll guard on our roster. i assumed he met defensively, but maybe offensively?

ill admit, ive only seen stuckey play a few minutes, but im not backing off my claims. dude is legit.

I think that Stuckey is still getting used to playing in the NBA. He seems to get a lot of shots blocked, and I think that's because in college he was able to get those shots off.

Stuckey seems poised and unselfish, with the ability to run the team. Dumars and Saunders are very high on him, so he will continue to see 15 to 25 minutes a night for the next couple of months, at least. He's a streaky shooter who at times makes poor decisions. He seems solid defensively, although not as good as Afflalo.

However, if Stuckey doesn't improve on his weaknesses over the course of this season, Hunter will be getting the backup G minutes. I hope that doesn't happen (I like Hunter as a spot player), but I definitely could see it.

i would count on hunter playing in the playoffs, probably significant minutes on many nights.

Most likely, for his defense, depending on the matchup. I'd love to see Afflalo step up and take over that defensive stopper role, and if he can't manage to do it this year I have faith in him doing it sometime next year. He just seems to have the right mentality to be that type of player. Pick what you're best at (defense), make an art of it, and just make sure you don't have any significant flaws, which he doesn't seem to other than rookie mistakes.

There is one x-factor that could still keep Affalo back in the mix. More blowouts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zekyl

Most likely, for his defense, depending on the matchup. I'd love to see Afflalo step up and take over that defensive stopper role, and if he can't manage to do it this year I have faith in him doing it sometime next year. He just seems to have the right mentality to be that type of player. Pick what you're best at (defense), make an art of it, and just make sure you don't have any significant flaws, which he doesn't seem to other than rookie mistakes.

I agree with that, his time just isn't this year. When you look at what they need and what they have right now, Afflalo is the odd man out. If Stuckey develops as hoped, he brings something off the bench that Flip M and Hunter don't. If Afflalo continues at a reasonable pace of development this year he is Hunter with less experience and rookie mistakes.

With limited minutes to hand out it makes more sense to spend them on Stuckey than Afflalo. Next year, if both players are still around, Stuckey will be more established and force feeding minutes to him will be less of a priority and somebody like Afflalo can get more run. Especially if Hunter is in a suit full time.

His potential is obvious. He has an uncanny mix of Speed and Strength. He is also extremely rough around the edges. I really don't think his jumper is as bad as it has looked at times, but he needs a boost of confidence (bench him against SA probably didn't help). He looks tentative in shooting the ball at times. Like he thinks about it for a second before he lets it go, and it hurts his rhythm.

And I still believe when he's on the floor the team looks a lot better when the offense is kept simple (mostly P&Rs). When he gets in the lane early in the clock, he gets high percentage looks for himself or his teammates.

Hunter and next year should not be mentioned together, unless speaking of his move to the front office. JMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

How many of those guys that you mentioned were signed by the Pistons to come in and score off the bench?

Like it or not, that's what Murray is paid to do. It's the same reason that Jarvis' is high as well.

I do indeed have higher hopes for Stuckey, but I'm still afraid that we've been sold a bill of goods with all the hype, based on what I've seen.

Well, Ginobili (probably the best bench scorer in the NBA) only averages 1 more shot per 48 than Flip and they are in the same role. Barbosa averages about a shot and a half more than Flip.

The difference is that both of those players know how to shoot, and pass for that matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFchris

Well, Ginobili (probably the best bench scorer in the NBA) only averages 1 more shot per 48 than Flip and they are in the same role. Barbosa averages about a shot and a half more than Flip.

The difference is that both of those players know how to shoot, and pass for that matter.

I think they also make more money.

Herm wins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermy

I think they also make more money.

He's cheap because he sucks. He doesn't suck because he's cheap.

chris wins.

Chris made a comparison between Ginobili, Barbosa and Flip Murray.

Herm pointed out that it is flawed to expect similar production to what Ginobili and Barbosa give you to a guy that was signed with the BAE.

Murray makes $1.9m, so comparing his performance to guys that make $9m and nearly $6m is ridiculous.

You get what you pay for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFchris

He's cheap because he sucks. He doesn't suck because he's cheap.

He's on our team because he's cheap. He's cheap because he sucks. Manu and Barbosa were not available to be backup guards on our team.

But I could probably list off 100 guards making similar or less money that are better than Flip. You can't tell me he was all that was available. If we hadn't wasted picks on Cleaves, White, Darko and Delfino then maybe we would have had a decent bench scorer long ago. Sure, a good % thought those were good picks at one time, but the fact remains they never panned out. And i'm not even counting the 2nd rounders. So don't tell me that Flip was simply a product of no availability. We wouldn't have been desperate if we didn't draft so many busts.

Yes, I like Prince and Max, but otherwise our drafts have been junk. (the jury is still out on Amir, Stuckey and AA).

UMMM MEMO?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFchris

But I could probably list off 100 guards making similar or less money

Not to go census geek on you but you might have to include mall security and parking lot attendants to get that many guards.

Nice one, gee. I do get the point he was trying to make though. There are a ton of guys that can do pretty much what Flip does or more for the same amount.

And seriously, Chris, how can you forget those amazing second rounders like Glyniadakis and Blalock and our undrafted hero DUPREE!

Who's mentoring Stuckey right now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFchris

But I could probably list off 100 guards making similar or less money that are better than Flip.

The hell. Who, Von Wafer? You're talking guys not on rookie deals? Nuts, that's just blind hate. Look, he's junk, but he's got a vet's min. contract. Those guys don't play, that is the expectation, and Flip has exceeded that on a contending team.

And WTF Mateen and White? That was a whole team ago. Not one guy from when they were drafted is here besides Hunter who's been dealt twice. We f-ing traded them for JB and picks who ain't even here. And what does that have to do with shit anyway, if those guys had paid off they'd be on big deals and we wouldn't have someone/thing else (or them).

When you have 5 highly paid starters it's impossible to invest in the bench, you hope to catch a break, and having a guy who can run out and get you a sloppy 20 points is a gift, not a fucking curse. 100 guys, that's fucking faggotry.

Faggotry: best word ever.

I agree that Flip Murray is a true blessing.

:mccosky:

Quote:

Stuckey has troubles adjusting to the point
Injury has left the rookie behind in NBA development, but it isn't quitting time just yet.

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Pistons knew there would be plenty of dark days during the process of acclimating rookie Rodney Stuckey to the rigors of playing point guard in the NBA.

"With him getting hurt and not having practice time, we knew we would go through this," coach Flip Saunders said. "But there is no other way. You can't just throw away his rookie year because he doesn't have it right now."

Seeing an assortment of zones and traps, Stuckey has been rendered tentative and uncomfortable over the past couple of weeks. In the last seven games, including the loss Monday, he made more turnovers (7) than baskets (6). He has made just six of his last 23 shots.

Saunders has tried to walk the line between allowing the rookie to play over his mistakes and shattering his confidence, which is partly why he has reduced Stuckey's playing time the last three games.

On Monday, Saunders used Arron Afflalo before Stuckey. Stuckey still played 13 minutes, and despite two early turnovers in a rough second quarter, he settled down in the second half, contributing a driving layup and an assist in the fourth quarter.

"I think he's strong enough as a person to fight through it," Saunders said. "All he needs is one or two breakout games and his confidence will come back."

Stuckey has been leaning hard on his veteran teammates, especially veteran Lindsey Hunter.

"We need to help him more when he's on the court," Hunter said. "We can't have him out there depending on other guys to put him in the right position. We have to put some calls in his head and give him some plays where he can be aggressive and create off of so he won't be tentative. He can't be on the court second-guessing everything."

Assistant coach Terry Porter, a former All-NBA point guard, said Stuckey's biggest adjustment is learning when and how to attack against a zone.

"He was having some success and then teams made an adjustment to him and he's struggled," Porter said. "He has to find out how he can attack out of a zone set. It's more difficult, but he just has to keep believing in himself and continue to be aggressive when he has his opportunities."

Porter said Stuckey will learn to find creases in zone defenses, just like he does against man-to-man defenses.

"He will learn once you swing the ball and get the zone moving, there will be creases he can attack," Porter said.

"He's got a lot of vets talking to him and that's going to help the learning curve."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermy

And WTF Mateen and White? That was a whole team ago. Not one guy from when they were drafted is here besides Hunter who's been dealt twice. We f-ing traded them for JB and picks who ain't even here. And what does that have to do with shit anyway, if those guys had paid off they'd be on big deals and we wouldn't have someone/thing else (or them).

When you have 5 highly paid starters it's impossible to invest in the bench, you hope to catch a break, and having a guy who can run out and get you a sloppy 20 points is a gift, not a fucking curse. 100 guys, that's fucking faggotry.

That's the point. We've had a good first round pick and a good 2nd round pick (that isn't here because we couldnt' afford him) and that's it. I agree, you can't go out and sign Barbosa and Manu. But guess what, SA didn't go out and sign him either. The Suns didn't go out and sign Barbosa either (they traded for him on draft day I believe). That's my point. If we had drafted depth correctly then we wouldn't have to keep bringing guys in off the scrap heap.

I'm not trying to bag on Joe for being a bad GM. I just can't give him a free pass on all the bad draft picks. If even one of them had panned out the Pistons might be in the same breath as the Patriots in dynasty talks.

-we blew the White pick when most people I know wanted Joe Johnson or RJ
-we blew Cleaves when most people knew Mo Pete was the better pro (not sure who we would have taken)
-we blew Darko and didn't even work out Melo or Bosh

yes, we did good with Prince and Max. The problem is that we got zero depth outside them. Great teams in a cap system have to be able to develop their own depth. It's why the Wings keep winning, it's why the Spurs keep winning, it's why the Patriots keep winning.

We're good enough to keep winning in a weak east, but we could be dominant. And Flip Murray is just another example of us grasping at straws.

I sure hope Stuckey is the answer off the bench, or we'll be grasping again pretty soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFchris

-we blew Darko and didn't even work out Melo or Bosh

I seem to recall that Bosh came and worked out for Joe even though they told him they were picking Darko.

I might be wrong, though, getting old.

Perhaps you are right. We did not work out Melo and we did not work out Wade either I think. At any rate, the next 3 players are all all stars. I wasn't a Melo fan then, and I'm still not. I just hate that we passed on Bosh. Oh well.

Anyway, we should get back to Stuckey talk.

lol

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6862/suckeyos3.jpg

Does anyone think it would be benefical to send Stuckey to Ft. Wayne to let him build up some confidence?

Can't do that with "Murray".

I think it would have helped him right after he got back from the injury. Get himself into playing shape down there. Its probably too late for that now though. It would probably hurt his confidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFchris

Perhaps you are right. We did not work out Melo and we did not work out Wade either I think. At any rate, the next 3 players are all all stars. I wasn't a Melo fan then, and I'm still not. I just hate that we passed on Bosh. Oh well.

Anyway, we should get back to Stuckey talk.

I think it was more they blew us off because it was assumed we were taking Darko. Semantics, I know.