TRADE: Shaq to the Suns for Marion/Banks (OLD THREAD)

To be efficient with Shaq on the court you are hoping for 1 of 2 things happening. Either Shaq will make your team efficient or the Suns shooters can still shoot without that transition rythm and free flow because they aren't going to have it while Shaq is on the court.

Miami is shit in terms of offensive efficiency this year with Shaq so I don't think #1 is happening. MAYBE Nash can get Shaq the ball more than Wade, Williams, Kobe, and Fisher have in the past but I think those "they don't get me the ball" cries that were legitimate at one point in Shaqs career have turned into "he doesn't get proper low post position as often as he needs to."

As for option 2. See Quiton Richardson.

Bucher says the Suns want Shaq for defensive reasons. Now sure Shaq is better than Amare defensively, but Mourning has been the Heats' primary defensive weapon in the post the last three years and he had even replaced Shaq on the court in crucial moments because of his superior defensive abilities. Shaq has very limited lateral movement and has the highest fouls/game rate of his career (matched only by his rookie year). Remember when he kept fouling out in the beginning of the year?

As far as rebounding, getting rid of your teams leading rebounder for a guy who brings down 2 less boards a game doesn't scream "improvement" to me.

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Originally Posted by Fool

There is no way the Suns would be able to slug it out with the real contenders if they limit their offense to half court. No way. Forget how much success they might have dumping it down and then passing it out (and lets just pretend that guys like Hill would still be able to hit threes standing at the ark for 15 seconds waiting for that jumper rather than pulling up at the ark in transition). They will stop no one with Nash and Amare on the court and you HAVE to play defense if you are going to play a half court game.

You think shaq will play more than 25 minutes a game?. I think they can adapt, solely because they still get to shoot the shots they want in the end(jumpers and dunks), but become more wide open. I think Amre/Shaq is a pretty good half court combo (half the time the help out defender will be Amare's defender). And when shaq sits, speed up the tempo.

The Suns will never win a title if they can't battle inside. They almost pulled a Dallas type choke against the lakers the season before last because of the likes of Kwame Brown getting inside on them. Shaq wont play enough minutes to completely slow them down. Again this is just my opinion. I think Amare will look better defensively at PF and that shaq will be a lift defensivesly in the paint which may force a jump shooting match for stretches, a match that the Suns feel they can win.

Also Marion/Wade is a nice combo. But nothing I'd fear anytime soon unless they nabbed a class A Big Man.

Its wierd to think of using the big man (rather than a point guard) to change tempo for only half the game. That's some real discipline to be expected from Nash and co but I've no problem with giving Nash the benefit of the doubt and he ran a more iso oriented offense in Dallas.

I can see the point of this being essentially an upgrade to how they use Skinner but losing Marion would seem to be a high price to pay for doing that.

I can appreciate the philosophy that the Suns have to have a big man presence to get anywhere but they got damn far without that presence last year and the Spurs don't look anything like they did last year so far (and even with Kobe, I don't see Gasol as as much of a threat as Duncan inside). Its all just opinion on my side too. I've been wrong before.

This has nothing to do with the Suns getting better, and everything to do with the Lakers abusing Amare with their big three in the playoffs. Shaq is the Suns 5 spot to Amare's clean up spot... using the ill-fated yet apropos baseball reference.

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Originally Posted by Fool

To be efficient with Shaq on the court you are hoping for 1 of 2 things happening. Either Shaq will make your team efficient or the Suns shooters can still shoot without that transition rythm and free flow because they aren't going to have it while Shaq is on the court.

Stand still shots are easier than moving shots, except for way off the line shots where you need the extra momentum to the basket to just get it there.
In addition. That free flow can lead to drives because of the spacing , instead of jump shots More high percentage again.

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Miami is shit in terms of offensive efficiency this year with Shaq

Miami as a total team is shit, Shaq is still a high percentage man hammer.
He is the one being traded ^_-

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Bucher says the Suns want Shaq for defensive reasons. Now sure Shaq is better than Amare defensively, but Mourning has been the Heats' primary defensive weapon in the post the last three years and he had even replaced Shaq on the court in crucial moments because of his superior defensive abilities. Shaq has very limited lateral movement and has the highest fouls/game rate of his career (matched only by his rookie year). Remember when he kept fouling out in the beginning of the year?

Shaq protects Amare down low and vice versa. Amare can use his athleticism to play help side defense. Shaq protects dribble penetration to the basket.
Mourning is a great defender, but he doesn't change the game like Shaq, flaws and all. Zo is a great blocker, Shaq pretty much cuts 33% of the lane off with just his frame. And there isn't even a point of trying to back him down in the post.

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As far as rebounding, getting rid of your teams leading rebounder for a guy who brings down 2 less boards a game doesn't scream "improvement" to me.

I guess statistically it doesn't . But I'll take Shaq in a half court over Matrix in some bugger ass running game any time. That's the problem with stats isn't it though? They are contextual.

Sure, Phoenix's game was never going to win a championship - but why in hell do they pay someone else to take Kurt Thomas, and then go and trade for Shaq?!?

It just makes no fucking sense, and Kerr needs to go back to behind the announcers desk/Their owner needs to open up his god dam wallet, or sell the team.

I'm reserving judgement until I actually see how they play.

Stand still shooting is better for some (see Kyle Korver). Its indisputable that the Suns run offense and free shooting has helped plenty of players with their percentages (see Tim Thomas, Grant Hill, Quentin Richardson) and there are plenty of players to use as evidence of that.

Its contradictory to say Shaq both clogs the lane like no other and spaces the floor for slashers. The Suns have never had a hard time getting layups, getting Shaq doesn't help that.

Its flat wrong to claim that Shaq changes games defensively more so then Mourning. Go ask ANY Heat fan and they will tell you that Mourning was Ben Wallace-esque the last 3 years and that Shaq was pulled for defensive reasons on multiple occasions.

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Originally Posted by Fool

Stand still shooting is better for some. Its indisputable that the Suns run offense and free shooting has helped plenty of players with their percentages and there are plenty of players to use as evidence of that.

Its contradictory to say Shaq both clogs the lane like no other and spaces the floor for slashers. The Suns have never had a hard time getting layups, getting Shaq doesn't help that.

Its flat wrong to claim that Shaq changes games defensively more so then Mourning. Go ask ANY Heat fan and they will tell you that Mourning was Ben Wallace-esque the last 3 years and that Shaq was pulled for defensive reasons on multiple occasions.

Ha, you have made a fatal error in your argument. Miami Heat fans do not exist.
I have won.

Fuck.

I submit.

Well played.