"An iPod for every kid? Are they !#$!ing idiots?"

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Originally Posted by Jethro34

As an educator I can tell you that iPod's are contributing to delinguent behavior in schools, not helping kids be more technologically advanced.

Do you think that there's an intelligent curriculum choice that would make sense in the context of iPods and the like? Do you think it'd be worth the cost, not only of the iPods, but of the deployment, podcast materials, etc.?

My sense is "no", but I'm unsure if the problem is thinking too big (start with fundamentals, reliable power out the walls, deploying ubiquitous networking) or too little (a radical IT revolution -- kids with headphones on in front of computers that spew lessons all day, teachers supplementing computers, podcasts with subliminals for sleeptime learning -- turn that 21st century electronic babysitter into your teaching bitch). The implications of a complex external tool you have to have for a general-purpose curriculum haven't really been thought out, and those sort of choices widen the divide big-time.

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Here's a novel idea, help make sure schools have things like, oh, chairs and desks before putting another distraction in a kids hands. How about keeping teachers around as well. Maybe classes with fewer than 40 students in them would help kids learn better.

My instinct is to agree, here.

But... is students per teacher the real problem, or some other dynamic? My gut feeling is that attention span is the real killer. I don't think kids attention span improves at 15:1 vs. 40:1. Perhaps most classes shouldn't be more than a half hour, tops. Beyond that, you're fighting for attention span, and there's much peer pressure to not prolong things. Think of the times you didn't raise your hand with questions at the end because you didn't want to hold up the rest of the class, or look stupid. Maybe that 40:1 ratio CAN work, but only in short bursts and supplemented with a lot more "office hours" time so 1-on-1 and small groups meet with the teacher (either at the teacher or student's initiative) during hours. Maybe teachers need to swap lessons every once in awhile, when possible, to keep things fresh. Sesame Street wouldn't do well if they just showed lovable furry old Grover, even if he's lovable.

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If teachers could replace legislators for a few weeks our state would be much better off.

My problem with this is that it's the teachers who taught the legislators, and the teachers who collectively marginalize themselves when they're not being marginalized by others. And, to take a quote of yours slightly out of order:

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I'm all for a tax hike, but use it to fund a better education in someway besides iPods.

"I'm all for a tax hike" is a marginalizing position -- "take more of me" versus "take less of me". Teachers are used to sacrificing for the good of the flock, because the choice to be a professional K-12 teacher at all typically involves big sacrifice. That's increasingly out of fashion in a world where people do lots of shit now that future generations will have to deal with, where the idea of "what's good for the children" takes a distant second place to "me me me". Look at how unions were marginalized. By far the most effective tactic was to keep current union members as fat cats, while penalizing would-be future union members.

Ok, enough rambling...

This can't be real? What the fuck will Ipod's do for kids? Take more of their attention away from learning? Dumbest idea I have ever seen. How can this possibly better their education. I wouldn't do this if they were free. What next, give them a little TV to watch while they are in class so they don't pay attention at all?

Unclemxy... I work for the state and I know a few things the general public doesn't know. Some of the cost cutting that has been going on has been hysterical. She got rid of the people that calculated the budget for the department I work in to save money and now nobody can calculate the budget. Everybody is laughing.

I don't think teachers have much to complain about. They have a fierce union, the best benefits, and work 9 months out of the year.

Mike, I certainly have plenty to complain about in regards to teachers. I hate the fact that the MEA must protect teachers that should be fired. In speaking with several MEA reps, they blame administrators for not doing things the right way. Allegedly, if administrators took the proper steps and completed the necessary forms, bad teachers could be let go, giving way to younger teachers that care and keeping that 68-year-old teaching from 1972 lesson plans from collecting $70,000 when he hasn't cared about students in at least 15 years.
I realize generalizations are made about everything here, but before talking about the union, benefits, and amount of work, realize that each district is different. Yes, all are a part of the same association. However, many districts are cutting back on the benefits - not all subscribe to the MEA negotiated package - and I think you'll find most educators work at least 10 months, for 9 months pay.
I once had someone tell me teachers were glorified babysitters and should be paid accordingly. I pursued that logic to ask him what babysitters would be paid. Common pricing is $3 per hour per child. So if I have 160 students for 1 hour each day, that works out to $480 per day. Then there are 180 days per year that I'm with them (I'll just attend teacher work days and development days for free. Parent conferences, coaching, working with clubs, lesson planning and grading, field research is all complementary in this setting). 180 x 480 = $86,400. So I say to this guy, please pay me like a glorified babysitter.

Any type of Union has been the demon of the right since 1994. It's a funny union that is so "strong" that its members are paid the amount that teachers are.
If teachers are glorified babysitters, it is because of something I have been saying and posting here for years: Most people who procreate do so before they are ready, throw their children at the system, cannot support the system, either financially or emotionally, and then crab about the results.
These same parents buy their children just about every type of attention span depriving device known to man: From spending zillions of dollars at Christmas buying worthless and useless junk, to cell phones, X box, televisions for their bedrooms, iPods, MP# players, and all the rest.
Teachers are the "front line" warriors in a declining social structure, aren't paid diddly, and seem to be the first ones blamed when children graduate without knowing how to read.
The parents of children bear the sole responsibility for the trouble their kids face at school. Most have kids before they are in any way prepared, only 25% of adults over 25 have a college degree (passing down a legacy of appreciation for education), and how many parents are out there worrying about their over priced house in the 'burbs that BOTH have to work for, and their over priced jalopies in the driveway that are anything BUT an investment?
Also, the model of American Education has undergone some changes that I wonder about. "Success For All" and other such curriculums, especially with the unfunded mandates of GW Bush's "No Child Left Behind" teach children how to pass a CRT test, and the educators coach for "The Test". If enough kids don;t pass, the district loses federal money, so they gotta pass that damn test.
The disparity in the types of education our children receive is alarming. Inner City schools (a nice little euphemsim for Black and now Hispanic schools) are forever forced to run kids through a robotic approach geared toward putting out "employable products", instead of educated and cultured learners and thinkers. Meanwhile, in the 'burbs, students get things like BOOKS that don't pre date the Reagan Administration, desks, well lit classrooms, and a lower teacher to student ratio.
Some union teachers have there, Mike.

WTFchris, I can see where iPods could be a useful teaching tool. TV can be a useful teaching tool. Watching a foreign language movie in English subtitles (or vice-versa) can assist with language retention -- something I occasionally fiddle with. Of course, there's a -big- stretch between "could be useful" and "IS useful".

MikeMyers, getting rid of the people who plan the budget could be a genius stroke, though I'm unsure of the specifics. Most of the time, in the absence of a real budget, you'll spend less, not do anything new, because you don't know how much you can safely spend. One of the best budget manuevers I ever implemented involved NOT telling someone how much they could spend. It was evil, but they innovated and I ended up getting more for less than I would have with normal budgets.

Jethro34, the seniority-based salary structures that pay incoming people less what they're worth while paying long-serving people more than what they're worth bug me. The NBA with rookie scale contracts bug me too. People only end up with a sensible view of their value by happenstance. When do you stop compensating for past underpayment?

Zip Goshboots, I'm mostly down on today's unions because of how they will cannibalize their young. Unions have done many great things, but I don't see them globalizing. I expect 21st century unions to look more like WTFDetroit than 20th century unions. About the only thing they'll have in common is that they'll both be considered terrorists.

funny, i just saw on the news a story about alternative treatments to fighting ADD, somethig to do with playing computer games with a sensory helmet on. well, after about 5 weeks of "treatment", the 6 year old was "cured", and the happy ending involved showing him doing homework while listening to his ipod... like a normal, well adjusted 6 yr old child would, i guess.

god do we live in a fucked up world.

ps: there was an article in the freep today about how the congressmen proposing the ipods got a trip out to california to visit apple's HQ, all bought and paid for by apple. tar and feathering enough, or is time to go french revolution style, and bring out the guilotine? viva la resistance!

Unions won't globalize? Wow, I never! I was just thinking that all those people making 12 cents a week in China to make my Mt Rushmore souvenir are just about to be signed up to the AFL-CIO-China.
Of course unions will never globalize. They're gonna be dead in the US in the foreseeable future. GM, Chrysler, and Ford are gonna walk one day soon on union retirees and take their pensions with them.
I like Unions. Again, just like voters can get rid of the GW Bushes of the world, union rank and file can get rid of their corrupt leaders.
It's a 12 year old mantra: "Unions DID some wonderful things, now it's time to get rid of 'em". Why is it time to get rid of 'em? Because they give power to the PEOPLE! Oh, Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich have done their evil work, indeed, and done it well.

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6345567

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Democrats talked about bringing technology to education during a press conference with House Speaker Andy Dillon last week. In that discussion, the idea of buying iPods or mp3 players for students came up.

But quickly, the question "How can the state afford to buy iPods for students when there isn't enough money to go around right now?" was asked.

In reality, there was never a plan to buy all students iPods. There is a $38 million line item to pay for technology, far less than it would take to buy mp3 players for 1.65 million students.

why spend 150-200 bucks on an Ipod when you can spend that money on used PC's that the kids could have encyclopedias on, search online, do their homework, etc? You can't tell me you can't find a decent used PC for 200 bucks. My brand new HP cost me 350 bucks after rebates (with printer and monitor too).