Bubbles' official "Fuck y'all, Will Bynum owns" thread

I like how because we disagree, you are able to identify "my problem" for me, lol. Jon Barry is only my favorite Piston ever. Lindsey Hunter made a career out of being an "energetic spark plug off the bench". Dupree stole $ for years being a bench energy guy. Point is, there are a lot of different types of bench energy guys, and it's my opinion that Bynum is above that. And yes, I've been saying for years that the ideal role for Stuckey is as a 6th man backing up both guard positions, because we've got better options to start, especially with Gordon here, Bynum's emergence, and with Rip healthy.

"My problem" is that I'm a Bynum fan, and not a fan of "the Stuckey mandate" it would appear.

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Originally Posted by Glan

I like how because we disagree, you are able to identify "my problem" for me, lol.

Yeah, it's great, isn't it? After all these years I still have a purpose.

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Originally Posted by Glan

Jon Barry is only my favorite Piston ever. Lindsey Hunter made a career out of being an "energetic spark plug off the bench". Dupree stole $ for years being a bench energy guy. Point is, there are a lot of different types of bench energy guys,

Yes, there are. Out of the ones you mentioned I'd put Bynum in the Jon Barry side of the ledger.

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Originally Posted by Glan

and it's my opinion that Bynum is above that.

Well, I don't think I've questioned your love of Bynum. I've simply questioned the desire some people have to change his role on the team.

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And yes, I've been saying for years that the ideal role for Stuckey is as a 6th man backing up both guard positions, because we've got better options to start, especially with Gordon here, Bynum's emergence, and with Rip healthy.

I would have whole-heartedly agreed when Chauncey and Rip were here. Not now. Stuckey starts for defensive purposes and because the kid would really struggle coming off the bench now.

Bynum and Ben Gordon do not struggle coming off the bench. Bynum literally thrives in that role. He kicks fucking ass. And some people think he performs so well IN THAT ROLE that they wanna change his role!

I don't understand that.

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Originally Posted by Glan

"My problem" is that I'm a Bynum fan, and not a fan of "the Stuckey mandate" it would appear.

I'm a fan of both players and hope that Gordon, Stuckey, Bynum is our backcourt for years to come, with maybe a defensive minded 6'5" guard on the roster for certain match-ups.

Rip? I'd be happy if they traded him tomorrow for a big man like Brand.

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Originally Posted by Pharaoh

Bynum and Ben Gordon do not struggle coming off the bench. Bynum literally thrives in that role. He kicks fucking ass. And some people think he performs so well IN THAT ROLE that they wanna change his role!

I don't understand that.

The team is better when he in on the floor, so I want him on the floor more, what is so hard to understand about that?

A sip of beer is good too, but why not pour a whole glass?

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Originally Posted by Glan

The team is better when he in on the floor, so I want him on the floor more, what is so hard to understand about that?

A sip of beer is good too, but why not pour a whole glass?

Because if you leave it out there too long it gets warm and tastes like shit.

Ben leads the team at %62 shooting. Why not have him take all the shots? Just because he's effective in his current role doesn't mean he'd be effective with an expanded role.

More isn't always better.

This sip IS amazing, but you know what happens when you drink too much?

You get drunk, can't speak properly and generally fuck things up.

Don't ruin a good thing in the hope that you MIGHT slightly upgrade something else.

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Originally Posted by Koolaid

I'm not comparing Bynum to Zeke in terms of accomplishments, but if you can't see that Bynum's game is clearly modeled after Isiah's then you must've not seen much of them.

This is Bynum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flQ-_...eature=related

This is Thomas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADqfHqrf8QA

You don't see similarities there? Not to mention Bynum coming back in the coming in the game after getting badly eye gouged and playing a huge role in sealing the win against Orlando, or clenching the playoffs by setting a franchise record last year, which were both very Isiah like as well.

I'm not saying he's as good as Isiah though. Isiah had a better jumper, better court vision and better handles. I'm just saying they play a very similar game, and if Isiah can be a top 5 PG of all-time being the same size and playing the same then I don't see how Bynum's size somehow relegates him as a bench player as if him being a less effective Isiah is a bad thing.

I'm not buying the Ben Gordon size thing either, mainly because I'm a pistons fan. I don't know how old y'all are, but do you remember this backcourt?

Isiah Thomas - 6'0"
Joe Dumars - 6'3"

Now check this out...

Will Bynum - 6'0"
Ben Gordon - 6'3"

Crazy ain't it? Now if by chance Will and Ben are getting torched in size mismatches they'd have a luxury Joe and Zeke didn't have. They could bring in Stuck/Rip to contest those shots instead of a 6'2" Vinnie Johnson.

I'd love to have Kobe, CP3, Bron and DHoward on the bench too. It's good to have talented guys on the bench, but it's even better to have them on the court. When you have a lesser player playing in front of him it's pretty dumb to have your best distributor on the bench trying to come in the game to cold shooters.

I'm unfortunately old enough to have watched isiah play high school basketball here in chicago when I was a kid which is more of a statement of how old I am than anything. My dad taking me to his high school games is to blame for my piston-fandom (because I became a zeke fanatic)

(and actually bynum was quite the hit here in chicago as well in high school but wasn't heavily recruited due to, you guessed it, his height)

I like Bynum. I like him a lot actually. In fact I like bynum infinitely more than I like stuckey. I'm coming close to hating how rodney stuckey plays basketball...he can't shoot, jump and makes poor decision after poor decision especially when it comes to shot selection. He thinks he's better than he actually is and shoots accordingly which hurts this team. I don't like guys whose main attribute is "getting to the free throw line" because it means they can't do the jobs themselves and need the refs to bail them out. Stackhouse was the same way. Hppefully he improves.

Anyway, I respect your comparison of bynum/gordon to zeke/dumars but, to me, it's a comparison in height only. Zeke was a much more talented and all-around point guard than bynum will ever be and I don't think you need me telling you this. You can't compare one of the best to ever play with a guy that's still learning how to survive in the NBA (but doing a great job learning how to survive).

And Gordon is an undersized, one-dimensional shooter that if his shot isn't falling he becomes almost useless. He's not a good defender.

Dumars was a threat on both-sides of the ball and probably made the hall of fame based on his defensive reputation more than anything else (although I think part of dumars' success during the "jordan rules" era had to do with how the pistons were coached and the swarming, help-defending ways of Dennis Rodman, still the greatest defender to ever play this game and a guy that needs to be in the hall of fame).

I like Bynum. I like his fight and how he's confident enough to close games. He is nearly unguardable off the dribble. But he is flawed, and some of these flaws are due to his size and how he scores points and how these flaws could be exposed in major minutes.

I like how bynum currently has a role that's been defined for him and he's excelling at it. I think the pistons need to focus on how to improve other areas before making changes to something that's currently working very well.

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Originally Posted by WTFchris

Because if you leave it out there too long it gets warm and tastes like shit.

Ben leads the team at %62 shooting. Why not have him take all the shots? Just because he's effective in his current role doesn't mean he'd be effective with an expanded role.

More isn't always better.

Yes, having Bynum go from 27 mpg to 32-34 mpg is analogous to having Ben Wallace shoot every shot.

Solid!

The problem is that size in the 80's is not the same as size now. 6'8" centers were the norm back then. How many 6'10" SF's did you have in the 80's? You can't compare sizes in different era's.

It's like comparing RB's in different era's. Guys are bigger and faster in in both sports. Just look at how many RB's run for 1,000 yards for 10+ years. Who is going to do that today? Alexander, LT, LJ, Terrel Davis...all those guys looked like future hall of famers but they broke down. They can't take the punishment of bigger faster players. AD is a freak, but who knows if he'll survive long enough to do that either.

I like Bynum a lot too, but his size is a valid concern, mostly because he'd be paired with an undersized SG that doesn't play defense. I actually think the best long term fit might be Bynum and Stuckey starting and Gordon backing up both. The problem is Stuckey hasn't developed his shot (which is hampered by focusing on PG development). He's a below average starting SG right now (if he were playing there), but maybe if his role was defined as such he could improve his shot the way RIP did.

Yep...6'8" centers were the norm...in the 1950's.

Did you even watch basketball in Zeke's day? Where the fuck did you get that the centers were 6'8?"

Bob Lanier. Hakeem Olajuwon. Robert Parish. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Mark Eaton. Brad Daugherty. Bill Laimbeer. Ralph Sampson. Tree Rollins. Jack Sikma. Patrick Ewing. Bill Cartright. Manute seven-foot fucking seven Bol.

The shortest dominant center of that era was moses malone, and he was a 6'10" 260-lb manchild.

There were more 7-foot starting Centers 20 years ago than there are now.

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How many 6'10" SF's did you have in the 80's?

Uh, Larry Bird?

How many 6'9" PGs do we have today, by the way?

The average height for NBA players is 1.5" higher now than in the 80's. I looked it up and posted this in another thread a few months ago. Facts are facts. How many starting PG's are there under 6' these days and how many starting SG's are 6'3" these days? That's the question that matters. You can't start Bynum next to Gordon with both undersized, and you can't start Stuckey at SG with his current range. Start Bynum/Gordan and see how many times you give up 40 to a bigger SG like Kobe.

Starting PG's 6'3" or bigger:
Williams, Kidd, Westbrook, Davis, Billups, Calderon, Arenas, Rose, Ellis

That's a third of the league. So what do you do against those guys? Bynum can't guard SG's so you can't slide Gordon over. What do you do when you play a 6'6" SG and Gordon gets owned?

Size does matter I'm afraid.