Bubbles' official "Fuck y'all, Will Bynum owns" thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolaid

So would you have Isiah Thomas coming off the bench? How about a prime AI? They both were the same size and same style of play as Bynum. The Pistons started a horribly undersized big guy named Ben Wallace for a long time too, and he played a position where size matters way more then it does for a PG. I don't think anyone regrets that.

You can't factor things around a player's size like that. Size is a plus, without question, but there's alot of other factors that mean just as much when determining a player's role. When you're talking about PGs things like speed, offensive awareness, passing skill and shooting mean way more then size. Even with that in mind, Bynum doesn't play like a midget. This season he has shown that he can rebound very good for a PG, and i'm yet to see anyone take advantage of him in the post either.

To be perfectly honest the names isiah thomas nor allen iverson ever came to mind when watching will bynum, 2 first-ballot hall of famers and, in the case of zeke, one of the top 5 pg's to ever play the game.

I see your argument, they are both small players and could (and did) lead to potential mismatches on the defensive end but I don't really have a problem with bynum's ability to pressure the ball. My problem with bynum's size has to do with his offensive game, believe it or not, and playing big minutes along side Gordon.

I like bynum and he's proven to be a very nice component to this team (and much better than I thought he could ever be) but he's much better as a back-up player at this time. Right now he's still a severely undersized shoot-first player that can't really hit a jump shot and doesn't see the floor very well. He's almost unguardable off the dribble and is exciting as hell to watch but eventually guys that small are going to have problems finishing at the rim when that's the only way they make shots. The more he plays the more he'll get exposed on both ends of the floor.

And yes, you absolutely have to factor the size of your point guard when your current shooting guard is only a few inches taller than said point guard. Ben Gordon really only works if you have a guy big enough to play with him that can cover the opponents big guard.

And what's so bad about having a guy that talented come off the bench? Teams would kill for that kind of production out of their back-up guard.

Still, bynum is a nice problem to have.

i have to agree Bynum is too one-dimensional to be anything more than a great off-the bench scorer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Asberry

i have to agree Bynum is too one-dimensional to be anything more than a great off-the bench scorer

He's one-dimensionally leading the team in APG (in limited minutes) is basically tied with Gordon for the team lead in 3FG% and would probably would be near the top in several other statistical categories if he got extended minutes.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I bet he ranks pretty well in points in the paint per minute, too.

He's also one of the fastest guys in the league with the ball in his hands.

Maybe that one dimension is just "good".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glan

The comparison was designed to get you to take the bait, and you did, so thank you.

You're very welcome.

And while I'm certain you would love for me to explain my position on this subject to you and type a fucking essay I'll refrain.

Why?

Because after damn near 10 years of posting with you I do not believe that you actually want Bynum to start. I believe you are taking that position in order to stimulate a debate and I believe I have told you what I think of that shit.

If you REALLY believe Bynum should start then congrats you're a dickhead.

If you're actually only taking that side of the debate to stimulate discussion then congrats, I still think you're a dickhead.

Peace, GD.

And remember to puff, puff, pass that shit

The discussion started by wondering what he could do with starters minutes and it degraded when (most) everyone decided to go with the same old tired "he's a energy bench guy" shit. Well, I think he's more than that. I don't care if he starts or not, he's a player and he deserves to play.

When someone says "energy guy" what do you think of?

Quote:

Originally Posted by yargs

To be perfectly honest the names isiah thomas nor allen iverson ever came to mind when watching will bynum, 2 first-ballot hall of famers and, in the case of zeke, one of the top 5 pg's to ever play the game.

I see your argument, they are both small players and could (and did) lead to potential mismatches on the defensive end but I don't really have a problem with bynum's ability to pressure the ball. My problem with bynum's size has to do with his offensive game, believe it or not, and playing big minutes along side Gordon.

I like bynum and he's proven to be a very nice component to this team (and much better than I thought he could ever be) but he's much better as a back-up player at this time. Right now he's still a severely undersized shoot-first player that can't really hit a jump shot and doesn't see the floor very well. He's almost unguardable off the dribble and is exciting as hell to watch but eventually guys that small are going to have problems finishing at the rim when that's the only way they make shots. The more he plays the more he'll get exposed on both ends of the floor.

And yes, you absolutely have to factor the size of your point guard when your current shooting guard is only a few inches taller than said point guard. Ben Gordon really only works if you have a guy big enough to play with him that can cover the opponents big guard.

I'm not comparing Bynum to Zeke in terms of accomplishments, but if you can't see that Bynum's game is clearly modeled after Isiah's then you must've not seen much of them.

This is Bynum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flQ-_...eature=related

This is Thomas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADqfHqrf8QA

You don't see similarities there? Not to mention Bynum coming back in the coming in the game after getting badly eye gouged and playing a huge role in sealing the win against Orlando, or clenching the playoffs by setting a franchise record last year, which were both very Isiah like as well.

I'm not saying he's as good as Isiah though. Isiah had a better jumper, better court vision and better handles. I'm just saying they play a very similar game, and if Isiah can be a top 5 PG of all-time being the same size and playing the same then I don't see how Bynum's size somehow relegates him as a bench player as if him being a less effective Isiah is a bad thing.

I'm not buying the Ben Gordon size thing either, mainly because I'm a pistons fan. I don't know how old y'all are, but do you remember this backcourt?

Isiah Thomas - 6'0"
Joe Dumars - 6'3"

Now check this out...

Will Bynum - 6'0"
Ben Gordon - 6'3"

Crazy ain't it? Now if by chance Will and Ben are getting torched in size mismatches they'd have a luxury Joe and Zeke didn't have. They could bring in Stuck/Rip to contest those shots instead of a 6'2" Vinnie Johnson.

Quote:

And what's so bad about having a guy that talented come off the bench? Teams would kill for that kind of production out of their back-up guard.

I'd love to have Kobe, CP3, Bron and DHoward on the bench too. It's good to have talented guys on the bench, but it's even better to have them on the court. When you have a lesser player playing in front of him it's pretty dumb to have your best distributor on the bench trying to come in the game to cold shooters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharaoh

When someone says "energy guy" what do you think of?

Lindsey Hunter, Ronald Dupree, Jon Barry and the like

Well, see GD there's your problem.

When I call Bynum an energy guy I think damn near 6th Man of The Year (though more likely 7th or 8th man in the rotation).

You think of end of bench types.

Big difference there, wouldn't you agree?

And FWIW:

IF you consider Stuckey and Bynum to be equal I'd start Stuckey every single time.

Bynum IS the spark this team needs off the bench. He plays exceptionally well in that role. I think the team is better with him in that role.

If you disagree and think this team would be better with Stuckey coming off the bench then I'm sorry I just can't agree with that. If we still had Chauncey and Rip? Sure, but not now.