http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/...&file=beam.mp3Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Swami
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http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/...&file=beam.mp3Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Swami
this is all alot of my basis for believing in a higher power. i believe our understading of existence is pretty much hopelessly isnuficcient, and that true understading is far beyond our capabilities. i think we've come along far enough to realize that just because its outside our realm of sensing, or having even a theoretical understanding of, doesnt mean its not there.Quote:
Originally Posted by giffman
basically, the existence is infinite in size, age, complexety, etc. thats some pretty heavy stuff when you think about that. to me, the logical explanation can only be a higher power. or more specifically, a 3-O god.
If it's 3-0 for God, here comes the Grand Slam in the 9th to beat him: Who put him there?
You are going DesCartes on us, and I won't let it get by. Just because you can imagine a god, and nothing bigger, does NOT mean he's there.
Strike One for Textbook Regurgitation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Swami
It may or may not have anything to do with Christianity. I think it has something to do with spirituality, though.
textbook regurgitation? maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip Goshboots
but why would something have to put the 3-O god there? if god exists outside of our own existence, then he also exists outside our dimensions. the 4th dimension being time. therefore your chrological question regarding "who put him there" might be irrelevent.
make sense? no. but even the smartest people in the world really dont get the latest models of our physical universe (which are also beyond our comprehension). and thats to say nothing of how pathetic our understanding will be compared to 20 years from now.
It gets a little tiring, these christian arguments about "Well, God is just smarter than us, and we can never figure him out", but then they act like they got it all figured out come Sunday, especially when it's time to tithe. Or, when it comes time to figure out who to vote for, or when it's time to start condemning a whole bunch of stuff they dissaprove of. Or, when it comes time to fire up a good old fashioned Inquisition. Or when it comes time to shout out the word "Islamofascist".
My chrolololological question is NEVER irrelevant. You offer up a 17th century proof that was probably put out there so the author could avoid persecution by religious authorities; an infantile reasoning that shows incredible lack of imagination and creativity, and of course, no concept whatsoever of any "God" (which I find odd since we were supposedly created in his image). It is a complete equivocation, one worthy of the counterargument about the "can he make a rock so big..." thing.
your chronological question would be irrelevent if you were using it as a way to dismiss god (who put him there?) if there was no before or after with god.
you shouldnt be afraid of an idea just because people you dont like may have a (partially) shared view.
I thought there would be a need for a humorous diversion in the thread, so:
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm
Zip - Why is it you issue statements which essentially say: Religion is a sham, God doesn't exist, and the only reality is that which can be perceived by the five senses, and we are expected to accept them, but when others issue statements saying they believe in God or that there may be alternate realities which we can't perceive or explain, we are expected to PROVE them?
You can no more prove that religion, spirituality and God are shams than I can prove that they are real. Why can't you just agree to respectfully disagree without imposing this apparent double-standard?
Or am I missing something here?
giffman:
Great question. I am truly surprised that no one counters with arguments such as "well, democracy is not really a proven thingy, yet you accept that"--which is a pretty good argument if you axe me. I'm going to need some time to think about that.
It's a complicated matter here, and I've got about 7 beers down, with more to come.