I head over to rivals and I look at the football Top 150. I see every traditional powerhouse littered throughout the Top 150. With schools like USC, Florida, and Texas it is almost sickening. A kid that I would throw a parade over isn't hardly mentioned on their mbs because they have so many.

Which leads me to ask the question, given the large number of talented players you need to rebuild in college football, is the task impossible?

The schools that were powerhouses 30 years ago are still the powerhouses. If those schools are winning, not enough kids are willing to believe in a rebuilding process elsewhere to make it possible. Would you gamble with your future? I wouldn't. It takes more than a 4 star here or a 5 star there. You need 6, 7, 8 four stars in a class along with a 5 star or two. How can you compete on the same field when you have far far less talent every single season?

Try to think about a program that became a powerhouse from the ground up and then stayed there. The Boise State stories are nice, but will they be a BCS power 10 years from now? I'll put my money on no.

Great discussion. I want to chime in, but I need to figure out where I stand first.

You know me, I need details and definitions. (you could have seen this post coming)
Consistant - reach a particular point x number out of y years. I need x and y or a different definition.
National Power - measured by wins, final rankings, what?

Given those definitions, I can give my OPINION on whether such a thing is possible.

Well look at WVU. They never were a power and they are building. Same with Rutgers and Louisville.

I think the big problem is that they play in the same conference as UM and that just hurts their football recruiting especially in state.

Meyer built a little mini thing out at Utah and look at Boise St. Miami and Florida were nothing 30 years ago.

It can be done, but you have to make the right hire and they have something MSU doesnt have....sun and beaches.

For the sake of argument, I'm thinking 100 wins in 10 years should qualify.
If this thread is talking about MSU getting to UM's level, I think it works. UM has 105 wins in over the past 10 years and that seems to be about the level they hover around.

I think it can be done, but it's very difficult.
Here are the things you need -

First, a coach that's a hotshot but has extreme loyalty to the school. There has been debate but general opinion is that Dantonio would stick around EL even if he reaches huge milestones of success. It looks like it could be a slow building process for MD, but all this could happen if:
Second, a couple five star recruits take a chance on the program within a 2-3 year stretch. This was big for State when guys like Duckett, Rogers, Knott and Smoker (among others) committed.

Hypothetically speaking, had Saban stayed State might be a top 10-20 program right now. He was the hotshot and he got the top talent to consider the school. Unfortunately he didn't have the loyalty to EL. He also didn't have the loyalty to LSU or the Dolphins. Alabama sure hopes he stays 10 years, in which case he just might make them a national powerhouse (which might not be fair since they've been THE ELITE program in the country in the past).
Brings me to my next point. If you have any sort of recency to work with, you have an easier road to rebuilding the program. Examples include Pete Carroll resurrecting USC, Wild Bill trying to do the same for Nebraska (and it appears to be working with recruits). UCLA may be on the comeback. UNC might become a powerhouse. They could have the coach and are having some recruiting success.

So I would contend that there is a formula, and it is happening right now, just apparently not in EL. It's an uproad battle and regional foes will do everything to keep it from happening, but a guy like Jonas Gray would be a start. If he brings Demens with him and starts a trend it could easily still be the top recruiting class in the last several years. I looked back at Rivals rankings going back to 02 and here's how the classes have been in terms of 5 star talent and 4 star talent.
2002 = 0-5, 6-4 (zero 5 stars, 6 four stars to expalin my format)
2003 = 0-5, 1-4
2004 = 0-5, 6-4
2005 = 0-5, 2-4
2006 = 0-5, 7-4
2007 = 0-5, 3-4
So the next 5 star player you add will be the first in a long time. Gray, Demens, Perry and Hoover make this class better than last year's. Smith would improve it even more. I know it's frustrating waiting on these guys, as it should be, but there is still hope that Dantonio could be building something - and that he could be building it right now.
Here are the essentials. Get Gray. That seems to be the key to everything. Follow it up with the remaining top 10 guys in the state, which it should be easier to close on once Gray is in the fold. Go beyond the top 10 into the top 15-20, actually. Snag whatever else you can from out of state as quickly as possible. Dantonio should still have some ties in Ohio, so bring in those guys. His replacement, Brian Kelly, is certainly maintaining his Michigan ties. You need 20 commitments by mid-December.
Next, star mailing stuff to 2009 recruits right now! Get in early on these guys. It's absolutely crucial to get back-to-back top 15-20 classes. If you look above, you'll see a trend of a solid class every other year, with mediocre classes in between. That means you rarely have many solid classes playing together. 2 really good classes in a row will do wonders to get thr program moving.

I think it's totally possible, but it will take time and patience from all angles. First off, you need a younger energetic coach that recruits like and will add excitement to the program. Running an exciting scheme helps too. The main thing is the coach needs to be on board for the long haul, and jump ship to a greener pasture after some success (Saban). I say patience because the first couple of years you're obviously not going to have the talent necessary to compete for championships so fans and administrators need to be patient and let the coach put his program in place.

So, bottom line, it comes down to the hire. If you hire the right guy, it's completely possible.

Just to add one more thing here - while I think Jonas is a crucial recruit in the process, I think Dantonio's work with the defense is also big time. If you want to build a powerhouse you have to win games first, and that's what defense does. Get the defense to win you the game, then bring in exciting offensive recruits. The D will get the winning percentage up, then add the exciting O and the wow factor and you're good to go. JLS was trying to do it the other way around and that doesn't work as well if you aren't USC.

Well look at WVU. They never were a power and they are building. Same with Rutgers and Louisville.

I think the big problem is that they play in the same conference as UM and that just hurts their football recruiting especially in state.

Meyer built a little mini thing out at Utah and look at Boise St. Miami and Florida were nothing 30 years ago.

It can be done, but you have to make the right hire and they have something MSU doesnt have....sun and beaches.

WVU is a good example, but not until the last couple years have they been Top 10 and will they maintain? I don't know, time will tell. Anybody can get hot for a couple, but I'm talking sustaining.

Rutgers won't last and once Brohm leaves, I believe Louisville will be back to mediocre. Some of these shitty conference programs are fools gold too because many of them have taken ass beatings when they've gone up against major conference big dogs.

I'm a little less statistical than you Jethro. When I say powerhouse, I mean in the Top 10 more often then not. When I say consistently, I say do it for 8-10 years. I'm very pessimistic at this point.

Side note - nice pic, but don't be offended when someone who knows how resizes it. That puppy is huge.

Side note - nice pic, but don't be offended when someone who knows how resizes it. That puppy is huge.

I tried for an hour and couldn't figure it out, I emailed The Syndicate and asked for resizing. Didn't mean for everybody to get blown out by enormous pic.

Tre me boy let's walk before we sprint. Look how far Iowa & Cheezitz have come after being doormats far longer than MSU. I'm shooting for respectability. Both schools got there and not with a bunch of 4-5 Stars. They did it with 2 & 3's and coached 'em up. Little by little.

I tried for an hour and couldn't figure it out, I emailed The Syndicate and asked for resizing. Didn't mean for everybody to get blown out by enormous pic.

You should be able to resize it in microsoft photo editor (my pc came with it).

By the way, since Chris has chimed in it made me think of Coach Kelly. I'm sure Cincinnatti isn't his final stop, but if he settles in somewhere I think he's the type of coach that could build a program into a national power. Look at what he's done at GVSU and CMU.
Put him in the Big Ten and watch out.