In no particular order...

Goodell - Vick torturing and fighting dogs (allegedly), other renegade players getting long rap sheets and bad press

Selig - Giambi, Bonds, steroids. Enough said.

Stern - Referee(s?) fixing and gambling on games. A playoff season that drew the ire of fans nationwide for shoddy officiating and suspect suspensions.

Bettman - Probably doesn't belong here, but he's in charge of a sport that nobody cares about, that's sort of a bad situation, too.

I voted NHL. Money is always the biggest problem.

I voted NHL as well. In the NFL and NBA, you can simply kick out the players/refs that are offenders. What can you do in the NHL? The whole sport is on the back burner. Selig would be my second choice, except that he turned away from the problem years ago and allowed it to become this.

It's probably obvious who I think is in the deepest shit.

Stern's got a huge problem with the integrity of the game on the line.

All of the people that thought for all these years that the games were fixed were just handed "proof" that they were right.

Of course, they are not right, but you know what they say about perception...

People will point to this for the next 50 years whenever a call doesn't go there way or a game is won by an underdog.

I get the feeling that some people here aren't seeing how damaging this could be. Maybe I'm way off.

As for the NHL, how can you be that worried about your troubles if nobody else cares?

Nothing to lose because they never had it in the first place.

I think its a big problem Glenn. I just don't think it will end the league, something that I think almost happened in the NHL.

As for the NHL, how can you be that worried about your troubles if nobody else cares?

Nothing to lose because they never had it in the first place.

Because he's basically in the entertainment business. If you have a talk show and nobody watches it you could say "well, nobody watches so who cares what they think"

But you won't have a talk show very long if nobody watches.

Sports these days are built in entertainment. Leagues cannot survive without the TV contracts, fans paying to go to games, sponsors, etc. The NHL won't fold, but you also don't want soccer or another sport to surpass it here either.

I think I'm just thinking about this in terms of total magnitude, both in terms of money and public relevance.

The NHL is really irrelevant, big picture, IMO.

This is just pure hogwash, but it feels like the NBA could lose a few key sponsors and the dollars involved could be larger than the NHL folding. That statement is pure guesswrok/conjecture, just trying to make an example that the NHL is peanuts compare to the dollars at risk in the NBA/NFL/MLB.

If your question is who will get ripped more in the media, then you are correct to say it is not Bettman. The Bonds chase, Ref Scandel and Vick are all bigger (I'd put Vick 3rd on that list BTW).

The question is the worst situation. I say Bettman. The other guys can make their problems go away if they want to. I might have a different answer if I see evidence that Stern knew about the Ref scandle prior though.

I think that Goodell has done a great job of handling all the situations he has been delivered. Can anyone remember a new commish coming in with this much bullshit to deal with 6 months into the job. If he plans on doing this for 20 years he was right to rule with an iron fist immediately.

I think that Bettman could help the NHL by simply eliminating a few teams. I know that contraction always sounds bad, but why not get rid of the 4, 6 or 8 lowest money-making teams and spread the wealth of talent around. This would help the other teams create more money by having better talent in the league and there being less small market bullshit to deal with. I hate to generalize hockey, but I think it should be a bunch of Canadian teams and a bunch of teams from the Northern part of the U.S............This means no Dallas, Tampa, Carolina, Nashville, Florida or Atlanta. I can live with the California teams if I really had to.

If your question is who will get ripped more in the media, then you are correct to say it is not Bettman. The Bonds chase, Ref Scandel and Vick are all bigger (I'd put Vick 3rd on that list BTW).

The question is the worst situation. I say Bettman. The other guys can make their problems go away if they want to. I might have a different answer if I see evidence that Stern knew about the Ref scandle prior though.

Sorry if this wasn't clear, but I think you have to look at it big picture, not so literally.

If my dog loses his leg, his situation is worse than Bettman's if you want to take the question literally.

I agree. Getting a vat of acid dropped on you would be worse than fans booing Selig for not endorsing the home run chase. But I read the question as factoring in the masses. If the NHL continues to decline, you could see franchises fold and dozens of players losing their jobs (and families starving). Are 100 kids suddenly "getting by" worse than someone getting tragically burned? I don't know how to answer that.

That's the reason I am looking at the big picture, and not literally. Literally would mean the person burning is far worse. Big picture takes into account all the lives effected.

I just don't see the NBA being effected that much, unless you can pin some incompetance on Stern or the head of officials for overlooking evidence before now.

Yeah, I don't really get it either. One's league is/was almost dead. The others are having PR issues. The very reason Glenn rules out the NHL is the reason they are going through the worst issue.

The leagues are not equal.

If a league fails in the forest and no one is around...

And again, that's our very point.

The very reason Glenn rules out the NHL is the reason they are going through the worst issue.

I might agree if the NHL used to be highly significant and had recently fallen off the map.

I hate to sound like Skip Bayless, but it's a niche sport and always has been.

I'm kicking myself for even including the NHL in this, lol.

I thought we'd be talking gambling, the mob, fixing games, Vick, Pac Man, Tank, and steroids and all we have now is, hockey.

Because its so niche right Glenn? j/k

(if you don't get this see the other thread

Since we are already sidetracked...

Serious question, what is more popular in the US, hockey or soccer? (another niche sport)

I don't know the answer.

I'm not sure how to best measure that, either.

I'm kicking myself for even including the NHL in this, lol.

I thought we'd be talking gambling, the mob, fixing games, Vick, Pac Man, Tank, and steroids and all we have now is, hockey.


The thing is the NHL has several problems

including: Steroids(NYI Dman last year), Gambling(huge Tocchet/Phoenix Gambling Ring), Arrests.......on top of their irrelevance issues

Bettman has all the same "biggest problems" and the longest hill to climb

Since we are already sidetracked...

Serious question, what is more popular in the US, hockey or soccer? (another niche sport)

I don't know the answer.

I'm not sure how to best measure that, either.

I don't know either. I'd bet NHL is still more popular, but I can't prove it. It depends on what you define as popular. To me, it's how many people would watch the game if it were up against the other sport at the same time on the same TV package. I'm betting a LOT more people would watch the NHL.

But like I said, that's just a guess.

I'm starting to lean towards Stern with all the stuff coming out on the Ref scandel. It's looking more and more like they knew about it long before he was busted.

Yay Chris!

Actually, any answer besides Bettman is acceptable, lol.

Hard to believe that Selig used to be the guy that was in the hottest water.

You can bet that his announcement yesterday that he plans on being there when Bonds breaks the record is no coincidence.

Suddenly, Bud has positive press.

No question it's Stern. Basketball has never equalled baseball in terms of love from the public, and therefore has less leeway with controversy. This whole officiating thing hits a league that is already circling the drain.

Out of all of them, Stern has the most to lose. If the NHL folded tomorrow, there would still be the exact same demand for the Wings, the Flames, the Canadiens, etc. Whether the league survives or not, the sport has its fans.

With the happenings at the NBA, the integrity of professional basketball itself is at risk.

ESPN stole your idea Glenn:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2949238&sportCat=mlb

That's a good read, fuckers owe me royalties, though.

I'll give them credit, though, they had the smarts to not include Bettman.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0725/espn_3_comm_412.jpg

That's only because they are still shunning them.

I was already thinking about this earlier today...and I went with Stern.

NFL is a single player in trouble (I know it is huge trouble and he is a big name in the league, but it is still only one guy)

MLB is just about the same thing as the NFL. The problem is really focused on one guy (I know the issue is more widespread, but it is all falling on Bonds). Also, there is a group of people out there that still support Bonds and will celebrate him breaking the record. And, after he breaks the record, the issue will kind of go away.

NBA's problem is huge. You are calling into question the validity of refs and who knows who else. The outcomes of games have been effected. Not good at all, and I think Stern realizes it.

(could they have made Stern and Selig any dopier in those pics?)