Saw an interesting debate on it earlier.

Some say yes to honor Barry. Others say yes cuz Selig was the boss during the Roid Era and he should be there and suffer the embarrassment of doing nothing about it. And he should wear a T-Shirt with an asterisk on it.

Thoughts?

I think he will come in a ski mask that way he can do both at the same time.

But in all seriousness, should he? Eh, yeah, even if not to honor Bonds but wouldn't he by showing up at least honor Henry Aaron?

He should absolutely be there. Look, say what you want about Barry, about steroids, about asterisks, whatever.

Fact is Barry Bonds with or without any "help" is one of the greatest athletes EVER. Outside of good defense, he has done everything at one point or another in his career. Steroids can't take you from someone that would hit 350 HR in their career and make you someone that hits 755. They simply can't do that. If, in fact, Barry is juiced (all signs point to yes but the dude has never been suspended) it taints what would have been an amazing career anyhow. He would have been one of the top 10 power hitters ever even if he never touched a thing.

Within the parameters of never getting caught (in a sport where cheating without getting caught is often slightly encouraged) he will break one of the top 5 records of all time. If you can't suspend him, you absolutely have to be there to honor him. The fact that Selig is even asking the question shows how horrible he is as commissioner. Stern or Tagliabue would have found a way to market the heck out of it in spite of the shadows.

Of course he should be there. There is no proof Barry was using (yes, I think he did, but that's not the point) and as much as we all don't want to see Barry set the record, this is going to be a Major League record so he should probably be there for it.

By the way, while I think there's no question Selig should be there, I have no problem whatsoever with Hank Aaron not wanting to be there. If I held such a great record, I wouldn't want to celebrate anyone breaking it, even someone without allegations of illegal performance enhancers.

He should absolutely be there. Look, say what you want about Barry, about steroids, about asterisks, whatever.

Fact is Barry Bonds with or without any "help" is one of the greatest athletes EVER. Outside of good defense, he has done everything at one point or another in his career. Steroids can't take you from someone that would hit 350 HR in their career and make you someone that hits 755. They simply can't do that. If, in fact, Barry is juiced (all signs point to yes but the dude has never been suspended) it taints what would have been an amazing career anyhow. He would have been one of the top 10 power hitters ever even if he never touched a thing.

Within the parameters of never getting caught (in a sport where cheating without getting caught is often slightly encouraged) he will break one of the top 5 records of all time. If you can't suspend him, you absolutely have to be there to honor him. The fact that Selig is even asking the question shows how horrible he is as commissioner. Stern or Tagliabue would have found a way to market the heck out of it in spite of the shadows.

I agree with Jethro. Also, Bonds won 8 gold gloves, he used to be one of the best outfielders in the game.

Ok, I'm focussing a bit much on "the throw" when the Pirates were facing the Braves in the NLCS. Didn't Sid Bream (or some other very slow individual) embarass him? The way I remember it, it would be almost as bad as a guy coming home from 1st on a sac fly. Yeah, that bad. I don't remember the details though.

I also remember he's famous for staying crouched over with his hands on his knees when he's confident a ball hit to his field was a homer. I would prefer my LF actually jog to the fence and challenge the shot.

Anyhow, that actually makes my argument even stronger. The definition of a 5 tool guy. This is the type of player, talent wise, we all DREAM that Maybin could become. If Maybin ends up being HALF the player Barry is and has been, Detroit is in for a real treat.

I think the Mantle family was bummed to go and congratulate MM and then find out (in their opinion anyway) that he used roids to get the record.

I tend to lean to protect the integrity of the game and that using steroids prolly doesn't keep the the integrity in tact.

You mean the Maris family, I presume - since Mantle never held the record.

yep, my bad.

He has to be there, even if he says nothing and doesn't participate in any ceremonies. It's his job to be there for those moments, like it or not.

Its also his job to uphold the integrity of the game. If he feels Barry used steroids and had an unfair advantage in breaking one of the biggest records in baseball, he could certainly miss it to make his point.

Its also his job to uphold the integrity of the game. If he feels Barry used steroids and had an unfair advantage in breaking one of the biggest records in baseball, he could certainly miss it to make his point.

If that's the case, he needs to come clean and make a statement and Barry probably shouldn't be playing right now. Him not showing up but not making such a move would just be some passive agressive bullshit.

Truth is, and I think we all understand this, the "Steroid Controversy" [smilie=punks.gif] is terrible for baseball and they're going to do everything they can to sweep it under the rug.

Selig probably should have made a statement about two years ago. Something along the lines of what Giambi said -- and by the way, it's bullshit that Giambi's getting lambasted for it by the media considering he's the only one who dares to be honest.

Something like: "Look, we made a mistake. We fucked up. We should have put a stop to this years ago but we didn't and steroids became a part of baseball. There's no going back now but I can promise you, we're eradicating it from the game and it won't continue. We have no way to prove who was taking steroids the last ten years just like we can't prove who was throwing spitballs in the fifties and sixties, just like we can't prove who was using greenies in the sixties and seventies, just like we can't prove who was corking their bats in the eighties and nineties. They're all black marks on the game but all we can do now is move on and make sure it doesn't happen anymore."

If he had done that, there would have been an enormous controversy. It would have been all over the papers. It would have sucked. But you know what? Six months later, we (as a sports fan society) would have moved on. In the grand scheme of things, it would have just been a footnote (granted, an ENORMOUS footnote) in the history of the game. Some people would have probably been turned off for a year or so, but they'd come back. The game would have closure and the game would move on.

Instead, we've just been pretending nothing happened and the issue's still just hanging out there, waiting for resolution.

Honestly, in my opinion, the biggest part of the problem is ESPN. ESPN has become such a huge, almost overwhelming part of sports media, it's hard to separate them from the products they produce. ESPN is the main source of sports information for 90% of sports fans. Yes, fans on sites such as WTF tend to be much more knowledgeable and seek out many different sources, but were in the vast minority.

The average everyday baseball fan gets almost everything they know from either local telecasts (pure team-paid fluff) or ESPN, whether from "Baseball Tonight", "ESPN.com", "ESPN The Magazine" or "Sportscenter". That's all well and good, but what happens when you consider the fact that ESPN's various properties are HUGEly invested in the success of the very product they're supposedly covering?

ESPN would stand to lose billions if baseball (or football or NBA, etc for that matter) were to take a fall. What motivation do they have to expose the truth?

None, really.

It really hit me around four-five years ago when Sosa got caught with the corked bat. For 25 years, it was generally accepted that corked bats helped batters. It was never really in dispute. Noone came out with any studies that it didn't help that much, or "could even hurt the batter's chances." It was pretty much just generally accepted fact.

So what happens when Sammy Sosa, one of the biggest stars, biggest faces and biggest moneymakers in the game gets caught with a corked bat?

Within hours, ESPN had a plethora of experts on Sportscenter, each declaring that a corked bat would be no help to a batter. Seriously, there were physicists, doctors, coaches, etc, all with a united front: The corked bat couldn't have helped. I called bullshit then and I call bullshit now.

Until there's some more separation between the product being sold and the supposedly independent media covering said product, I don't know that we'll ever really know what's going on. Yeah, once or twice a year they'll throw out a few fall guys, a Neifi Perez here, an Alex Sanchez there, just to try and prove they"re "doing something about it". Once in a while they may even throw out a Rafael Palmeiro to prove they're going after stars as well (I don't really doubt that Palmeiro juiced up, but I have no doubt that he was a perfect target for baseball to make an example of -- a star, even a borderline HOFer but towards the end of his career and never a huge media icon, never an irreplaceable player...). But in the end, we're stuck wondering about everybody else.

[Sorry....rambling....all over the place...conspiracy theories....drunk....!]

Its also his job to uphold the integrity of the game. If he feels Barry used steroids and had an unfair advantage in breaking one of the biggest records in baseball, he could certainly miss it to make his point.

Vinny's right. If he's not going to go, that means he believes the record to be tainted. If he does, then he needs to say so and prove it. If he doesn't, then he has to show up. He can't ride the fence on this crap.

I don't hate Barry Bonds. I can't bring myself to. Even though he's kind of a douche, he's probably the best hitter I've ever seen. But reading something like this makes me very sad somewhere deep down inside that it's Barry, and not Ken Griffey Jr., who's going to break the record. Fuck an injury!:



Q . Ken Griffey recently sent you a special bat. What was that all about?
A . When I was with him in (Cincinnati in) 2004, we got to be pretty good friends. I was always joking around with him that I wanted him to take a brand new bat up to the plate, and take one swing with it and have it be a home run, then sign it for me.
Sure enough, he pulled a brand new bat out and hit a home run with it and thought of that from three years ago. He signed it and mailed it to me. It is very special and one of the neatest things that I have gotten in my career.
Q . Where do you have it?
A . It is right here in my locker if you want to check it out. I haven't mailed it home yet.
(The bat reads: "To Todd, all the best, Ken Griffey Jr. The bat, one swing, like we talked about and as you asked for." It is signed where the ball hit the bat.)

Vinny's right. If he's not going to go, that means he believes the record to be tainted. If he does, then he needs to say so and prove it.

Which many of us don't believe he has the balls to do. And as far as proving it, the Comish is pretty much the judge and jury so he can decide without a lot of proof to the fans.

I've always liked Barry but am convinced he used roids and that it helped his homerun total. So I don't want his record to stand. justmy2cents

Bud should get a haircut too, but he probably won't do that either.

Who gives a fuck if he cheated? You think baseball is the only professional where people cheat(customers, stockholders, etc.)? You think people don't cheat in their everyday lives(taxes, spouses, etc.)? People cheat all the damn time. It's a part of human nature. Quit whining about "integrity" and deal with it.

I think Bud should be there, but I'm not sure if he's man enough.

I was a pretty damn good wrestler and football player back in high school, but I was too banged up to take it further. If my heart and legs were in better shape I would have definitely taken some juice if it guaranteed me a shot at stardom. If it could provide for your family, you would too, so don't deny it.

Who gives a fuck if he cheated?

LOL I'm thinking you have a miserable life or something.

I probably worded that wrong or something

My life is just fine. I just don't think it is/should be a big deal if he cheats. Like I said, cheating is a part of human nature.

Bonds trails Hank by 2 now.

ill preface my opinion with this: the chemical laboratory is an integral part of prosports now. i always think its funny that there are so many crazy things that people put in their body which is ok, but as long as it falls under the ambigous category of "steroid" suddenly everyone is up in arms. so imo, pretty much any sport record that is related to strength or stamina is pretty much unrelateable to 50 years ago. look at the tour de france. who wins? the guy who can come closest to the line without crossing it. doesnt impress me much.

but i do hate the "steroids didnt make contact with the ball" argument. or the "he was still a great player before the steroids" or the "not just anyone could break this record" argument.

if you recall, back before mcguire, chasing 61 was probably the most meaningful stat in sports. lots of years, someone would be on pace, but invariably they'd fall off or get injured. why? because 162 games is a lot and your body tends to get fatigued and break down. steroids not only add power, they keep you going. especially when you get in your mid 30s, which is why guys power numbers usually curtail unless they juice in which case they double. see ken griffey jr as a contrasting example.

so no, not just anyone can hit 755, or 73, or whatever, but i have no doubt in my mind that atleast a few of barry's predecessors could have. so imo honor barry not only is an outrage to hank aaran, but also the many sluggers who wont be nearly as remembered because they couldnt cheat like barry.

if your getting raped you may have to take it but you dont have to enjoy it. im down with selig skipping the event. he should have squashed steroids, but the guys who really should have squashed them are the players, who really are the ones just hurting themselves.

I shouldn't post right now cuz I've indulged but....Good post. I don't put this 100% on Barry or the players though. Selig & Co had a big part in letting this thing go too far.

Maybe after the strike when Baseball ratings were so low and fans were pissed, the owners let things go to gain popularity back for their sport. They had hundreds of millions invested.

The announcers kept talking about the baseball or this or that back then as reasons for the increased offensive output. Maybe it was the players.

I don't know, but to respect players in the past, imo, you can't have cheaters in the present.

Selig in the house.


Selig will be on hand with Bonds two homers from tying Aaron

ESPN.com news services

With two home runs in his last game, Barry Bonds emphatically put an end to one of the worst slumps of his career while also moving within two homers of Hank Aaron's all-time record.

Tonight, commissioner Bud Selig will be in attendance as Bonds continues his pursuit of the milestone in Milwaukee -- where Aaron started and finished his career -- when the San Francisco Giants (39-54) open a three-game series against the NL Central-leading Brewers (54-41) at Miller Park.

Bonds returned to the starting lineup Thursday for the first time in four games after sitting to let his sore lower body recover, and hit home runs No. 752 and 753 in a 9-8 loss to the Chicago Cubs. It was Bonds' second multi-homer game of the year, giving him 19 homers on the season.

"Right now, I just feel good. My body feels great. I feel rejuvenated a little bit," said Bonds, who was mired in a season-worst 0-for-21 slump, two off his career high set during his rookie season of 1986.

Bonds, who turns 43 on Tuesday, needs three homers to break the record of 755 set by Aaron, who played 12 seasons with the Milwaukee Braves and two with the Brewers. Aaron hit the last home run of his career at Milwaukee's County Stadium on July 20, 1976.

Milwaukee is also home to Selig, who hasn't indicated officially if he'll be on hand for any Bonds games beyond Friday's.

It is a pretty Herculean effort to watch Bonds get walked and hit pop ups and fly outs every game. Gotta hand it to Bud.

I was a pretty damn good wrestler and football player back in high school, but I was too banged up to take it further. If my heart and legs were in better shape I would have definitely taken some juice if it guaranteed me a shot at stardom. If it could provide for your family, you would too, so don't deny it.
Yea when you paint that dramatic picture that doesnt apply to even most of the guys doing it. Typically its for an edge, not to feed their families. They already took care of that by getting a major league contract. Mark McGwire Juicing with Sammy Sosa high fiving their way to glory is way past "feed my family". Truthfully if you took that risk rather than naturally getting yourself in good enough shape for a shot, then it reflects a lack of commitment to truly accomplishing something long term in sports as a career and looks more like a desperate"i'm not good enough, must do something fast". The feed the family thing is cool and I feel that to an extent. But its not really what most people are truly thinking, its just a good cop out to a persons own justification to themselves I think.

With that said I dont think any blame falls on bonds or any of the players. It more so falls on the MLB and The commish. They made cheesey rules on purpose because they didnt want to kick out any out their stars. No way they dont know guys are getting hydroplaned on whatever they can get. I still believe there was a point where atleast 1/3 of the MLB was on something banned. And that also includes the much slimmer these days Ivan Rodriguez.

SAN DIEGO -- Baseball commissioner Bud Selig headed home to Milwaukee on Sunday and is likely to miss Barry Bonds (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3918)' next three games.
Selig was at Petco Park when Bonds hit his 755th homer Saturday night, tying Hank Aaron's record. Selig attended the start of Sunday's game, when Bonds didn't play, then headed home.
In his absence, Major League Baseball will be represented at AT&T Park by executive vice president Jimmie Lee Solomon for the first two games of the homestand and then Hall of Famer Frank Robinson.
Selig, close friends with Aaron, stood with his hands in his pockets as Bonds' family and friends cheered during Saturday's home run trot.
"I didn't see it," Bonds said of the commissioner's reaction. "I didn't read anything yet. I just got here."
Selig issued a statement after the game.
"No matter what anybody thinks of the controversy surrounding this event, Mr. Bonds' achievement is noteworthy and remarkable," Selig said, adding that "all citizens in this country are innocent until proven guilty."
The distance the commissioner's office has put between itself and Bonds was clear at the news conference. Six years ago, when Bonds tied Mark McGwire (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3866)'s season record with his 70th homer, the background was MLB logos. On Saturday night, the backdrop was a large Giants' symbol.

It'd be really cool if #756 was a walkoff homerun, but it was still very cool to watch on tv.

I wonder how much that ball would be worth.

I'd call Barry and tell him he can have it back when he admits he's a cheater, and not a moment sooner.

I'd call Barry and tell him he can have it back when he admits he's a cheater, and not a moment sooner.

I'd sell the shit out of it, for sure.

Yeah, if it was another player (like A-Rod's 500th) I would probably be a nice guy and work something out with the player. For Bonds, I'm not doing him any favors.

http://wtfdetroit.com/pics/toiletpaper.jpg WTFDetroit’s Morning Constitutional
With Zip Goshboots

August 8, 2007

It’s finally over. Barry Bonds finally hit THE home run, and now we can all get back to our normal daily routine of ignoring baseball (unless you’re a fan of one of the four teams who annually have a chance to win the World Series). But the question remains, and has been asked over 3 million times now, where do we go from here?

Read this complete Morning Constitutional here. (http://www.wtfdetroit.com/index.php?page=morning8807)

theres nothing i like more than reading up on mitch "i had to scab to plagiarize this" album's latest hypocritical on bonds.