I believe it to be evident that Webber's not coming back, so it's time to get into thinking about our options at center. What are they? What are we going to do?

I hate the idea of it being Sheed, but our depth may be leading us that way.

Sign Darko to a two year BLE, Flip Murray style

This is a very difficult question.

I'm guessing it depends on what Hill decides to do (MLE availability).

I'd also like to explore that Nazr for Haywood idea, but Haywood would be better as a backup C too.

I say that we start Nazr, becpme unhappy with him (again) and then trade for a starting C mid-season.

Right now, I say we give Nazr the second chance, now that he's had a half-season with courtside tickets to see what we need from him. He's really not as awful as we all make him out to be, I swear!

Right now, I say we give Nazr the second chance, now that he's had a half-season with courtside tickets to see what we need from him. He's really not as awful as we all make him out to be, I swear!
Sadly, this is true. He's not great, but he's probably better than most of the other options we have. I still wouldn't mind seeing us trade him for someone like Brendan Haywood. He's not much of an upgrade, but he's a little better.

:emo kid:

The biggest problem is that there are only a handful of good center-type players out there: Shaq, Dwight Howard, Oden, Yao, and other guys who are really PFs (Duncan, Garnett, etc.). Since getting any of those guys is out of the question, the real issue will be fielding a successful team without a decent center.

Too bad Flip pissed off Dale Davis, he could have helped out for 15 minutes a night at the vet's minimum.

Not that it would help us get younger...

Sheed could be that other guy that's really a PF for us. Its not the ideal situation, running him out there as the C all the time, but its doable.

I say screw it. If Joe and the organization is going to talk up Amir, throw him in there and see what he can do. Best case scenario - he turns out to be a damn good player and helps us as he learns for the post season. Worst case scenario, he blows and Joe finds someone like he did this year in the midseason.

We already know Amir brings what the Pistons need the most - Energy. Then you have another energy guy in Max on the bench. Give it a try.

Just because he's good doesn't mean he's ready to start. He's not ready to be a starter at all. Not in the slightest. Everyone raves about how great he is going to be, but we all forget that he's not there yet. We can't just dump him into the starting lineup. Not how it works.

Oops, forgot to add the option of Cheikh Samb. Glenn, would you like to do the honors, if possible?

As for my opinion.. I'd also like to see them throw Amir out there and try Sheed at C, what the hell.

Amir isn't ready to be a starter. Give him some time as a role player first. If we're going to start Sheed and not start McDyess, we should give the spot to Max who has experience. Amir can steal it away later in the season if he proves he deserves it. He's got to earn that starting spot though.

Amir isn't ready to be a starter. Give him some time as a role player first. If we're going to start Sheed and not start McDyess, we should give the spot to Max who has experience. Amir can steal it away later in the season if he proves he deserves it. He's got to earn that starting spot though.

Amir played hard in summer leagues, in the NBDL, and in the NBA games he's played. I say we should throw him out there and see what happens. I would equally be OK with Max starting, but I'd like to see Amir given a huge opportunity to see what happens.

I think Dyess should keep coming off the bench, however, as that's a big reason in my mind he's stayed healthy these past few years.

My Rotation:

PF: Max (24) /Dyess (24)
C: Sheed (33) /Nazr (15)*

*If Nazr is sucking bring in Amir for him. Amir may eventually win that job outright.

We need Dyess scoring from the bench. I think Max may be the perfect fit to start. Joe has said it time and time again since our eleimination. They have to play with more energy and hustle. Maybe Max playing with the vets will get them to play all out for 30-33 minutes a night. Then Stuckey/Afflalo/Amir/Dyess will be the energy guys.

My Rotation:

PF: Max (24) /Dyess (24)
C: Sheed (33) /Nazr (15)*

*If Amir is sucking bring in Amir for him. Amir may eventually win that job outright.

We need Dyess scoring from the bench. I think Max may be the perfect fit to start. Joe has said it time and time again since our eleimination. They have to play with more energy and hustle. Maybe Max playing with the vets will get them to play all out for 30-33 minutes a night. Then Stuckey/Afflalo/Amir/Dyess will be the energy guys.

How many Amirs do we have?

Is there the real Amir and then bizarro Amir?

That would rock.

What would be the differences between real Amir and bizarro Amir? They are always exact opposites in some way, so what way would this be?

Left hand vs. right hand?

One is #25 and one is #52?

Cornrows parted on the left for one, the right for the other?

Anything change in his style of play? Is bizarro Amir a dominant outside shooter? That would be great.

I think McDyess earned the right to start by actually playing well. Up until the Cleveland series anyway. Seemed like he was trying too hard.

I think McDyess earned the right to start by actually playing well. Up until the Cleveland series anyway. Seemed like he was trying too hard.
He would easily be the starter but he has said he doesn't want to start. He prefers coming off the bench. He's more comfortable there.

After thinking about it all day, I'm still saying we make a trade. My vote went to other.

How many Amirs do we have?

Is there the real Amir and then bizarro Amir?

That would rock.

shit, that is what happens when you get woke up at the crack of dawn and drive 5 hours back from Niagara falls, then try to catch up on some sports news. I meant if Nazr is sucking then bring in Amir.

What do you guys think about Jamal Magloire for the vet minimum (one year)?

I know that he's been a slug the past 2-3 years, but as an alternative to Webber, it might be a slight improvement if he feels like playing for a contract for 08/09.

Low risk move at least.

At the minimum? I'd definitely give it a shot.

What do you guys think about Jamal Magloire for the vet minimum (one year)?

I know that he's been a slug the past 2-3 years, but as an alternative to Webber, it might be a slight improvement if he feels like playing for a contract for 08/09.

Low risk move at least.

Overrated but if it's for that kind of money after we sign Billups and Amir, I say we look to get a big for the vet min. But no way does Magloire take that kind of money. I don't think hes looking for the ring right now, more of the money

Once we do, nazr is gone for sure.

Magloire is not going to get anyone's MLE (maybe a small part of it, but certainly not full) and with so few teams having cap space, he may be forced to take the vet's minimum from somebody and hope to have a good season and cash in next year.

The other option is to go overseas for a year, I suppose.

Plus, he runs a beauty pageant, lol: http://www.jamaalmagloire.com/

I would add him for the vet min after locking up Billips and Amir for sure. It would be a low risk. We can probably move Flip Murray to get enough space to sign him too. I'd rather have Magloire at the vet min than Nazr for an eternity.

After looking over all our options that dont involve us giving up something valuable, I'm unfortunately going with "Move Sheed to C, start Amir".. Its imo the best option we haver under those circumstances. Nazr becomes backup C unless we can dump him.

Amir can Rebound, Block, has shot a capable jump shot(though the consistency of it hasn't been tested yet), much like maxiell plays with no fear, runs the court well enough to leave other Centers/pf's at a disadvantage (compensating for his disadvantage in weight), plays above the rim in the open floor, and probably provide 8-13 points a game I think once he gets comfortable. His negatives are lack of weight, youthful decision making, and a need to dribble/catch the ball better.

Can't say i'd be enthused about this option. But I think i could find temporary ok for the moment feeling in it. If it proved to be not good, make a mid season trade.

I'd take Magloire, but I'd really want to figure out how to deal Nazr.

I'd take Magloire, but I'd really want to figure out how to deal Nazr.
A lateral move based on Magloires performance as of late imo. If Magloire is cheaper, then sure lets have him over nazr. But if he's talking getting anything in the same ballpark, no thanks.

get Etan Thomas for NAzr, 2nd round pick

Etan Thomas is injury-prone poetic garbage.

I'd much rather get Brendan Haywood, and they'd be more likely to move him based on his disagreements with their coach.

How about trading Flip Murray to the Spurs for Jackie Butler?


Butler is guaranteed $2.4 million next season from the Spurs, but they could try to trade him depending on how he performs in summer league. He played in only 11 games last season, averaging 3.7 points, 2.0 rebounds and 9.4 minutes, though he is in noticeably better condition than a year ago when he joined the team.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA070607.01D.BKNspurs.summer.355686f.html

I was hoping we'd get either Elson or Bulter last offseason, assuming Ben stayed. There must be a reason why he never plays in SA.

Flip and both second rounders from Toronto? SA loves the low picks.

He didn't play because Oberto was better than they thought he'd be, and Elson was pretty solid too. And he was out of shape.

He's got a lot of potential, soft/good hands and a nice touch.

Okay, that sounded bad.

I'm sure that he'll get better offers, but what about bringing Mikki Moore back?

No to Moore. He'll get more than we can afford. Butler might work, but I have a feeling Joe will have to move Flip for nothing so we can afford Billups, Amir and a MLE (portion or full) SF. He'll need that extra 2 mil to stay out of tax range IMO.

Now if he could find a taker for Nazr that would be different.

I'm sure that he'll get better offers, but what about bringing Mikki Moore back?
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f156/cooley4/25pu041.jpg

Disrespect Mikki if you want, but the dude is going to get paid.

Have you seen the other centers in this league? Mikki is no slouch, relatively speaking.

Disrespect Mikki if you want, but the dude is going to get paid.
As long as its not by us, cool.


Have you seen the other centers in this league? Mikki is no slouch, relatively speaking.
A guy with a career average of 5 and a half points per game is a slouch at Center. Ben has a higher career scoring average. I'd rather have Amir Johnson at center honestly.

I pity the team that shells out serious money for a 32 year old center whose best season ever was with the nets who had no other options at center. And who hasnt done half of anything before hand. He should get a flip murray sized contract at best for his efforts. And not get it from Detroit...EVER.

Throwing out his career ppg is assinine when you know that he was typically getting DNPs or garbage time.

And his garbage ass played damn well against the Pistons this year.

Throwing out his career ppg is assinine when you know that he was typically getting DNPs or garbage time.

And his garbage ass played damn well against the Pistons this year.
Yea so did scalabrine before in the same format(hitting open jumpers because nobody thought enough to think they'd have to cover him). I think you're putting too much value on that.


But also why has getting garbage time all of the sudden become an excuse for his career?. He earned that garbage time just as much as he earned his 26 minutes a game in Jersey. So it counts to me. see whatever way you please. but again if we pay that scrub serious dough, we are fans of a dumb ass team. I think overpaying Nazr was enough for me. No need to keep dumping money off to big men that arent going to fit here.

I'll go ahead and consider this your endorsement for Nazr getting substantial minutes at C, then.

I'll go ahead and consider this your endorsement for Nazr getting substantial minutes at C, then.
Just because someone else's shit smells worse doesnt mean I endorse the stinky diapers we already have on roster. Only Thing I endorse on Nazr is him retiring.

I don't, we'd still have to pay his shitty contract.

I don't, we'd still have to pay his shitty contract.
what about if he's suspended by the league for cocaine abuse?

That would be ideal.

So if Webber and DD are out, Samb isn't ready, Mikki Moore and Chris Mihm are too expensive, then who wants to guess who we sign from this group?



Melvin Ely
Calvin Booth
Rafael Araujo
Pape Sow
Danny Fortson (6'8")
Vitaly Potapenko
Jamaal Magloire
Luke Schenscher
Pat Burke
Sean Marks
Kelvin Cato
Marc Jackson
Jared Reiner
Jake Tsakalidis
Jamal Sampson
Jake Voskuhl
Michael Olowokandi
Esteban Batista
Slava Medvedenko

I'm pumped.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/realgm/Tsak.jpg

Everytime. Lil'Wayne. Everytime.

I still like Magloire. He was an all star at one time, and he's not old. Perhaps a new environment and Flip's supposed offensive genius could bring that back out of him? We'd have to find a taker for Nazr though.

Well, even if they don't trade Nazr, we need more than Sheed and Nazr at the 5, so most likely someobody is going to be signed to the vets minimum, IMO.

I think with the lack of quality bigs in this year's market, teams will be looking and overpaying Magloire.

I wouldn't mind Magloire, as long as he doesn't become Nazr part 2 because I actually thought Nazr wouldn't do bad

Well, my assumption is Jamal for cheap. I'm not signing him for more than 2-3 years at 1-2 mil a season. If Nazr is gone you could give him another mil a season and it would be fine.

..and at center, a 56 year-old 7'9" big man from the big continent of China, let's hear it for B-B-B-B-Bao Xishun!!

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070712/i/r2892082596.jpg?

Ideally I think that the Pistons HAVE to start Nazr. Beside being our only true center, if we can get him to play well we will eventually be able to trade him for something of value. This will hold true especially if guys like Magloire and Mihm get overpaid. In the mean time, Samb can improve in the development league and we can see what Max and Amir can do. I wouldn't even mind a late season return of C. Webb. Maybe have him play the last 20 games of the season and still have some juice for the playoffs. Either way, if we don't play Nazr, I don't think that we can get rid of him.

Is there really any realistic chance of Nazr regaining the starting job or is that just more of yall's copious wishful thinking?

Assuming no more moves, he has a chance. I don't think they want to start Dyess. I assume that the preseason will detirmine whether they will start Nazr, Dyess or Max. I'm hopeing for Max myself with Sheed at center.

WARNING: PROPAGANDA!!

:langlois:


Center of the Storm

by Keith Langlois
Thursday, July 19, 2007

Pistons fans are delighted that Chauncey Billups and Amir Johnson didn’t leave as free agents. They’re enthused about the glowing reports of Rodney Stuckey’s performance in the Las Vegas Summer League. And they’re intrigued by the arrival of 7-footer Cheick Samb a year ahead of schedule.

But if there’s one thing that has them vexed, it’s the identity of opening night’s starting center – particularly if it turns out to be Nazr Mohammed.

The hand-wringing is disproportionate to the consequences no matter how the question gets answered – whether it’s Mohammed back in the middle, whether he’s traded for his eventual replacement or whether he’s relegated to the end of the bench again by the re-signing of Chris Webber.

It would be a big deal if this were the NBA of 25 years ago, maybe. But it isn’t. So put a cold towel on your forehead, pop a few Tylenol and get off your feet. We’re going to talk you down from the ledge on this one.

First things first. You can’t think conventionally. Forget the artificial dividing line between “starters” and “reserves.” It’s almost meaningless. Manu Ginobili comes off the bench in San Antonio. But he’ll play 30 minutes a night and be there at the end of every important game.

The Pistons have someone almost like that in Antonio McDyess. He won’t play that many minutes and he won’t affect as many games to the degree Ginobili does, but chances are he’ll be on the floor when close games end more often than whoever starts at center. Chances are he’ll be one of the Pistons’ five best players many nights. And if he’s not, it’ll probably be because Stuckey or Jason Maxiell or Amir Johnson nosed him out.

That there’s still enormous cachet associated with being a starter in the NBA is a testament to conditioning and to the league’s marketing acumen. Pregame player introductions have risen to the level of high theater, nowhere more so than The Palace where Mason holds a crowd like quite no one else.

But my guess is the Pistons’ starting center is going to be asked to hold his own for about 20 minutes a game. Twenty minutes out of 240 available. That’s … what? About 8 percent?

It doesn’t mean his role is inconsequential, but put it in perspective. Every team the Pistons play is going to rely on someone – or several someones – of Mohammed’s capability or less in greater roles than he’ll assume.

In the salary-cap NBA, every team has flaws it tries to mask. If Nazr Mohammed proves to be the Pistons’ biggest flaw while giving them eight points and six boards in 20 minutes a night – the numbers he essentially gave them last year as the starter – then, trust me, it’s going to be a pretty good season around here.

I’d contend that the Pistons’ far bigger void last season was the lack of any reliable perimeter depth. Too often Chauncey Billups would sit for four minutes and a game would turn. After Flip Murray played his way out of the rotation, Carlos Delfino became the backup to both Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince almost by default. Delfino would be pretty good one night and pretty invisible the next. Rodney Stuckey is going to make a huge difference in that regard next season and Arron Afflalo – because the Pistons know he’ll at the very least show up defensively every night – will help, too.

As for center, my best guess is that Mohammed comes back to the Pistons and that – given the way the roster is shaping up – there just isn’t going to be the room or the need for both him and Webber.

All else being equal, maybe the Pistons would prefer Webber. (Though Webber’s age, his injury history and the dip in his play from mid-March and beyond present a case for the opposing view.)

But all else isn’t equal. The Pistons are obligated to pay Mohammed about $25 million over the next four years. Webber is a free agent. If someone offered the Pistons a comparable player who would suit a need – say, a veteran small forward to back up Tayshaun Prince who could stretch a team defensively – then, sure, trade Mohammed and sign Webber to a low-risk, low-cost contract that still keeps the Pistons under the luxury tax.

Failing that, Nazr Mohammed is the opening night starter, in all likelihood. Now let’s recall what that entailed last year over the first 36 games, before Webber arrived. The Pistons were 21-15 in those games. Until his numbers dipped over the last eight games of that stretch, Mohammed was averaging 8.0 points and 5.9 rebounds in 20 minutes a night and playing respectable defense.

And there were complications. McDyess played miserably in November and December. Had he been the McDyess of January and beyond – after the old leather ball was reintroduced – the record would have been better and Mohammed wouldn’t have suffered by comparison.

There was also the huge adjustment period the whole team was experiencing in not having Ben Wallace as the last line of defense. Those 70 points in the paint the Pistons gave up against Milwaukee to start the season were only Mohammed’s fault if you expected him to be Big Ben – and no one did.

He gave the Pistons pretty much what they expected when he was a part of the rotation – 20 minutes, eight points, six boards. It’s about what you get from a mid-level exception big man, the slot the Pistons used to sign him as a free agent in July 2006. The adjustment of Mohammed to a new team, the adjustment of him to them, the dislocation of playing without their defensive security blanket, the early sputtering of McDyess – all those things conspired to chip away at the perception of Nazr Mohammed early in the season.

There’s also this: The way Mohammed handled what had to be a demoralizing situation for him – all of Pistons Nation rejoicing in Webber’s addition while he languished at the end of the bench, going from starter to DNP-CD most nights – resonated with his teammates, the coaching staff and the front office. Even through the playoffs, when it was clear he wasn’t going to be used, Mohammed was always one of the last to leave the gym, getting in extra practice time and then hitting the aerobics machines.

Now look at the picture going forward. The Pistons want to keep Rasheed Wallace’s minutes to around 30. Pencil McDyess in for right around 20. That’s 50. And it leaves 48 minutes to carve up at the two interior positions among the starting center, Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson – the two young players Joe Dumars vows will be given opportunities to crack the rotation.

If Maxiell and Johnson split 25 to 30 minutes a night, that leaves 18 to 23 for the starting center – right in the range of expectation the Pistons have for the position. And that doesn’t include the possibility of Tayshaun Prince spending a few minutes at power forward, the odds of which go up as the NBA trend toward small ball continues.

So let’s review:

--The Pistons were hardly drowning last year with Nazr Mohammed as their starting center.

--His output was in line with expectations and his contract.

--Factors beyond Mohammed’s control were at work in shaping largely negative perceptions of him while he was in the lineup.

--His grace in handling a situation that would have soured 90 percent of his peers leaves the door wide open for his reintegration.

--Even if he doesn’t give the Pistons more than the eight points and six boards in 20 minutes he gave them last year, that’s still better than most teams are going to get from a guy who, in effect, is seventh or eighth in the pecking order of influencing a game’s outcome.

Put another way, if Nazr Mohammed as their starting center is the Pistons’ biggest worry going into the season, there are probably 28 NBA teams that would trade places with them. There, now. Isn’t that better than dangling out there on that ledge?

lets trade Nazr, Flip and a 2nd round pick for Turkoglu, then sign Cweb for the minimum! get it done Joe!

Good read, I agree with him. While I'd like to move Nazr, if Max and/or Amir can provide 25-30 minutes of solid play a night we'll be fine with Nazr for 20. He wasn't horrible, he just didn't provide the impact Ben had and our bench was no better than the year before. That magnified the situation.

Shitty read since it doesnt shed any light to the fact that we were nothing in middle with Nazr on defense. Did Flip help him write that? average on offense, atrocious on defense is what bothered me about nazr. No beef with nazr, but unless rasheed plays like tim duncan, we wont be the least bit threatening to the gilbert arenas, dwayne wade, lebron james slashers in the east.

It's the fouls, pure and simple. He fouls enough to the point that he negates his positive impact on the court. It was sad that CWebb was an improvement on D.

if we dont sign another big guy its maxiell/amir or bust. Kudos to Joe for taking that chance if he does(even if some here will whine that its the budget forcing his hand).

Also i'mma lay off Joe when it comes to budgeting. i still hate his guts for keeping Flip. But After watching the suns make their money dump of interior idiocy, I'm glad his moves arent completely ignorant. whether work or not, they've been well thought.

Play Nazr his minutes, end the game with Dyess.
I'm just looking for an opportunity to post my all time favorite pistons quote.

“When I’m young, I play football with my friends,” Samb said after a recent workout at the Pistons’ Auburn Hills practice facility. “And one day, every people, when I’m going out, saying to me, ‘Hey, you big. You have to play basketball.’ And I say, ‘Why I have to play basketball?’ I do try. I like basketball.”

Play Nazr his minutes, end the game with Dyess.
I'm just looking for an opportunity to post my all time favorite pistons quote.
Already did that, I didnt like the results which included but not limited to:

1.) Nazr bitching that as a starter he deserves more minutes.

2.) His inconsistent play coming back.

3.) Him blaming his inconsistent play, fouls, and bad defense on how many minutes he didnt get as if we are supposed to allow him to hack and shoot his way out of trouble. No thanks.

I think the fact that the last time we solely depended on Nazr was so long ago works in his favor with people here. But I remember why I didnt like him and I know that he wont be much different this year.


Also we overpaid him. He did not live up to his pay on defense and hacked way too much imo.

I think Nazr is an average defensive player, he just looked bad since we are used to Ben Wallace. Who is better defensively, Nazr or Webber? I think its a wash, and Nazr provides more athleticism and rebounding. I don't care if he bitches about the 4th quarter. Look at the Spurs, they have Oberto play most of the game then have Horry close it out, we should do the same with Dyess and Nazr.

I think Nazr is an average defensive player, he just looked bad since we are used to Ben Wallace. Who is better defensively, Nazr or Webber? I think its a wash, and Nazr provides more athleticism and rebounding. I don't care if he bitches about the 4th quarter. Look at the Spurs, they have Oberto play most of the game then have Horry close it out, we should do the same with Dyess and Nazr.
Yea I love that you used the spurs because they tried to do that with nazr and he became a a constant whiner about it. Thus they wised up and let him go.

As far as him being average on defense. That idea is a joke. He's below average for a center and the hacks come from him being to slow to react. And yes webber was better defensively imo. He atleast made plays (steals and deflections) on defense.

Also Athleticism is something that Maxiell's fat ass provides far more of than nazr. Nazr and athletic arent even in the same region of thought. Using webber to defend Nazr(though i'd take webber over nazr by far myself) as an option pretty much is the "we could do worse" approach, which is fairly negative way to think in getting you lineup ready. You try to do better if a guy is borderline average. Agree to disagree, but i was hating the pistons with nazr as a starter. was tough to watch games because i knew we werent good enough to even challenge for anything significant in this league outside of the division title.

Who is better defensively, Nazr or Webber? I think its a wash, and Nazr provides more athleticism and rebounding.
Nazr is a good rebounder, but he can only rebound when he's on the court.

Anyone who dreams of a Sheed/Max starting lineup should have nightmares about rebounding.

Nazr is a good rebounder, but he can only rebound when he's on the court.

Anyone who dreams of a Sheed/Max starting lineup should have nightmares about rebounding.
i dont know what to make of Maxiell on the boards. At times he's looked brilliant to a ben wallace extent, other times he doesnt get anywhere near the ball.

Only thing I can say is that in the playoffs he was alot sharper on the boards. i'll give him the benefit of the doubt that his rebounding has improved until I see him in action again this year.

The thing that is constant is that we need to relieve the excess at PF... these are the guys that nobody wants to give up.... but something has to shake out.
We should be looking at teams that need tax relief next year... one such team is the Nugs... we may be able to swing a one-sided deal to help their owner... something like Nazr & Dice for Nene & Evans.... may have to throw in a future #1 or Jmax....
Evans is future trade fodder.

C- Nene, Sheed, Evans
PF- Sheed, Max, Amir

that deal does nothing but break even. evans is less of a player than nazr, Nene amounts to slightly more than Dyess value. Also I doubt Nene is a legit trade item after how well he played last year. Kenyon would be more available, and fuck getting him.

that deal does nothing but break even. evans is less of a player than nazr, Nene amounts to slightly more than Dyess value. Also I doubt Nene is a legit trade item after how well he played last year. Kenyon would be more available, and fuck getting him.
Nene is not an upgrade over Nazr?
It also get's Sheed away from banging against frontline 5's.
As stated Evans is just filler to be moved later.
As for Nene not being available... you may bre right... but we don't know where the Denver GM is on paying $ for $ (see Suns)

Nene is not an upgrade over Nazr?
never said he was did i? I said that nene is actually slightly better than dyess. But on the flip side nazr is better than evans. in fact i dont want evans at all. first time he grabs someones nuts its brawl part 2. Seriously I dont like giving up Dyess and nazr. Not unless there was something far better than evans in play. But again this has no shot imo with Nene's emergence. In fact i've heard that its camby who could get traded typically.

:langlois:


Joe (Bay City): I hear Chris Anderson’s suspension is up in January and since the Hornets are pretty deep at the forward/center position, is it possible the Birdman might fly to the D or is that too much bad publicity?

Langlois: It wouldn’t be the publicity that scares Dumars off, Joe, but considering the Pistons don’t see a huge interior need, Anderson’s two-year ban for drug violations and modest contributions during his five-year career, I’m guessing he ranks pretty low on the priority list. He was always a fairly fascinating player because he was unorthodox and athletic, but two years away from the game on top of all his other complicating factors cast a pretty big shadow over his future.

Good lord.

Who rebounds?

The thing that is constant is that we need to relieve the excess at PF... these are the guys that nobody wants to give up.... but something has to shake out.
We should be looking at teams that need tax relief next year... one such team is the Nugs... we may be able to swing a one-sided deal to help their owner... something like Nazr & Dice for Nene & Evans.... may have to throw in a future #1 or Jmax....
Evans is future trade fodder.

C- Nene, Sheed, Evans
PF- Sheed, Max, Amir

I think the problem here is that nobody wants to get rid of McDyess - ie because he's such a good likeable guy and he does play well later in the year. Being that perennial 6th man, he's pretty much thought of as a 'core player'. Also when CWebb came in, you had Sheed, CWebb, and Dice, all 3 who are... basically Power Forwards, and not real Centers.

If CWebb walks, the situation is loosened somewhat, but again you have Sheed, Dice, Max, Amir... none of whom are really Centers. And if we are successful in dumping Nazr... well... there you go. And with that, the two best of the group, Sheed and Dice, mirror each other's skillsets for the most part.

Logically speaking, I think you need to swap out one of the 3 (Sheed/Dice/Max) for someone who can play consistently well at the 5 spot. But those 3 guys are good enough that its hard to swallow getting rid of one of them. Add to that is the fact that we have a moron for the coach... which means its in the team's best interest to make things simple for him. One starter and one consistent backup per position. No situations where Flip has to assess a situation and choose between mulitple players, that's dangerous with an idiot like the flipper.

i agree with your assessment, metr0man, but finding someone who can "play consistently" well at the center position is much easier said than done. look at the 5's in the league:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byposition?pos=C&conference=NBA&year=season_2006

i think most centers fall into three categories:

a). proven studs (and young bigs) who will cost max money (shaq, dwight howard)
b). unproven, young centers who will cost a lot to pry away from their teams (bynum)
d). mediocre centers who aren't difference makers (nazr, brendan haywood, mark blount)

unfortunately, group A will cost way too much. B will also cost much and would be a gamble. we're left with the D group basically. i don't think we need to get caught up in position assignments. just give me a PF who can be a rebound hound. i've seen Amir attack the glass relatively well (he is nearly a 7 footer and pretty damn athletic) and Maxiell can be a good rebounder, IMO.

I still say there are better fits than Nazr. The D catagory is full of guys that would be perfect on one team and crap on another.