Refusal to pay luxury tax could cost Pistons Amir Johnson
Posted by Justin Rogers June 30, 2007 16:36PM

According to Chris McCosky, at least one team (Houston) is showing interest in Amir Johnson. McCosky suggests if any team offers Johnson the a full mid-level contract exception, which should average approximately $6 million per year for five years, Detroit would be unlikely to match.

June 30, Detroit News: There is a chance the Pistons could lose Amir Johnson this summer. Signing Billups and Hill, the Pistons will be flirting dangerously with the luxury-tax threshold. Johnson is a restricted free agent, which means the Pistons can match any offer he receives.

However, if a team decides to use its mid-level exception to sign him, the Pistons might be hard-pressed to match that. It would be a tough sell to owner Bill Davidson to pay a luxury tax on a 20-year-old.

Houston, a team in need of frontcourt help, has expressed at least some casual interest in Johnson. The Pistons would have seven days to match any offer made to Johnson.

This is an obvious move. Amir Johnson is a very intriguing prospect, who absolutely dominated lesser competition in the D-League, but is entirely unproven at the NBA level. To lock up that much money in an unproven player, by any team, is a foolish move. It's probably unlikely anyone offers Johnson that type of coin, but he very well could field offers in the $3 million per season ballpark. At that more reasonable price tag, expect the Pistons to match any offer.

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2007/06/refusal_to_pay_luxury_tax_coul.html

Let me make this clear, I get that Amir likely won't get the MLE anywhere, so don't try to sell me on that I get it. My point of the thread is Joe and the PR firm have been selling us on Amir and how great he can be and all of his potential. We have been told he was a steal and would have been a lottery pick this year, yet once again with the threat of paying luxury tax the team would throw it all out, to save a few million. Let's assume he has Rashard Lewis potential (once again for those stuck in literal mode, I am talking in terms of value, fmpact on a franchise and role of not in terms of style) is it worth keeping him for the Mle since that is still is a bargain in today's NBA

So please since I am not fan enough for some here explain to me how to spin this as good? This being losing a talented 20 y/o for the sake of a few dollars, or not doing what it takes to win now and in the future. I get going too far over the tax can be crippling but we aren't talking about Knicks or Mavs tax we are likely talking about a few million for a few years.

He's restricted, so it'd likely morph into a S+T if it came to that.

It's not good, and it won't happen. It's speculation by an idiot.

lol. or maybe it will. who knows. very typical. one second your saying he's the steal of the 2005 draft (i wonder which of the what, 5 games he's played in the nba, makes you call him that), the next second your saying no one is going to offer him $$$.

thats fantastic.

If Amir were the #10 pick, he'd be getting 2 years guaranteed for ~$4.5 million, plus another 2-3 years of team options for up to nearly $9 million.

I'd take Amir over whoever was at #10.

Dumars has never had trouble giving players away for nothing (see Corliss and Delfino). Dumars wil hand Nazr to anyone for a 2010 2nd rounder before he "loses" Amir because of the luxury tax. This is a columnist looking for a column. And the "Fire Dumars" squad looking for anything more to add to their chant.

well, you give him away for a second rounder to who? theres only a handful of teams w/ cap room. so you have those teams. otherwise, its trade exceptions, not sure who has those. gs, for one. but i guess they have plans for kevin garnett. if that falls through (im sure it will) maybe we can convince them that nazr is a good plan b.

the only trade rumor im aware of re: nazr involved marco jaric and troy hudson. 2 equally bad contracts.

if we wanted to dump his salary, we needed to use 1sts.

The 25% +100Gs leeway on trades for teams over the cap is about 1.5mill in a Nazr trade. That's half of the 3 mill per year that is the more realistic money for Amir thrown out in that piece. There won't be a problem finding a team to throw two white guys on the end of their bench at Detroit for Nazr. 1sts won't be necessary.

Anything more than the mid level is ludicrous. This guy has done nothing but dunk on scrubs and play well in the NBDL. Any team that overpays him, gets him. That being said I'd match everything including the mid level.

The mle is ludicrous.

Hey Bushies, I mean Pissies the point that I was making was the luxury tax is fear is killing the off season before it even matters, the organization is freaking worried already and not a dollar has been spent. Yes it was by the terrible columnist who was speculating but its not like message is any different depending on who is talking; Detroit is scared of the luxury tax and won't pay it period.

The problem with this team is not Joe, it is ownership, that was my point all along but Joe is coming off as a puppet not a great GM. The ownership is dictating the budget and Joe is being hamstrung by it.

This isn't a matter of fiscal responsibility, which in part I could see last year with Ben's retarded deal, given his age and decreased productivity we are talking about ownership not being willing to spend any dollar amount that threatens the bottom line. How can you blindly support that? It's not just McClueless saying that they won't spend if it means paying tax, call into 1130, 1270 or read national articles.

FYI the MLE is the average salary of players in the NBA that is how they get the figure. Most would agree that Amir has as much talent and more upside than Nazr so how can paying him average money be bad business if he is average? Even though all we have been told is he is special and a steal, now he can be thrown away and called names for wanting to be paid average pay if it is offered.

My unhappiness is simple when it comes to this team, money motivates everything and the ownerships undaunting position of never paying tax even if it means a championship is absurd. I know there is no proof that spending more would have won another championship, but there is proof that cost cutting cost us a couple. You can't convince me that paying even 10 million in luxury tax and winning a championship has more of a downside than getting booted from the playoffs and being under the lux tax. There is no way that losing and spending to the lux tax but not over is more profitable longterm than winning championships.

Amir should not be making the average salary since the kid hasn't shown anything except potential.

No one thinks its good that the old man won't pay for a better product, we've been bitching about since 05 and the Corliss sell off (I say we loosly, I certainly wasn't the first to see that problem out of the gate).

Amir should not be making the average salary since the kid hasn't shown anything except potential.

No one thinks its good that the old man won't pay for a better product, we've been bitching about since 05 and the Corliss sell off (I say we loosly, I certainly wasn't the first to see that problem out of the gate).

well, thats tricky. time was, there was no rookie wage scale, meaning guys like big dog and grant hill actually got paid competitively with other guys of their qlty.

amir is in a great position right now. his next K is completely dependant on what gm's really think about him. if he really is as great as some people are saying, im sure a gm would offer the full mle.

you cant have your cake and eat it too.

The fundamental problem is that rookie scale contracts and other limits on contract language make it really hard to pay a player what he's worth when he's worth it. Owners overreach, then gripe when players get paid too much.

FWIW, the MLE is higher than the real "average salary". The MLE calculation undercounts the number of players that the teams likely under contract, then adds an 8% fudge factor for good measure.

Before everyone continue's to call Davidson cheap, I want you to make me a list of teams that have no problem paying the luxury tax....

I'll start...

New York

Name me more than a handful more....

Big spender Cuban got rid of Finley for that reason... Phoenix sells their draft pick every other year for that reason...

Worst case scenario has 5 teams paying the tax for this past season.... New York and Dallas are the locks.... Minnesota is a possibility and they're pretty much screwed by KG alone. San Antonio is probably going to have to pay it as well. The other team is Denver who is very borderline due to Taking on a little extra salary in the Iverson deal and the fact that Camby reached some unlikely incentives this past season....

I'd venture to say that that number is going to continue to drop down to two teams in the coming years.

Lets wait until this offseason plays out before we start bitching about Davidson supposed "Cheapness" Call it legalized collusion if you want but the only teams that are paying the tax are ones that have no hope of getting under it for the time being.

I don't think the market will overpay for Amir Johnson...I agree w/ whoever said McCoskey is just looking for an article to write...


I don't even think half of the NBA has even heard of the kid anyway...

Note that it's limited to the MLE the first year no matter what (the Gilbert Arenas rule) and he's restricted. Someone goes nuts and offers over the MLE, and we can do a S+T where we're less likely to end up with filler crap. I'd be thinking "Battier + 1st" if the rumors about Houston are true, and have them take Flip Murray off our hands in an addition-by-subtraction move.

I'm in lockstep with JS on this one.

What good is it to have a billionaire owner that runs his sports teams like they are in Chapter 11 bankruptcy?

As much as it pains me to say it, I think we (Pistons fans) missed a golden opportunity when Dan Gilbert was looking to buy a team. How much would things be different right now had Davidson sold to Gilbert?

I'm not kidding when I say that we may just have another ring or two.

It's got to be common knowledge now around the league that players from Detroit can be had if you make the offer even a bit uncomfortable for Davidson/Dumars.

When the rest of the league smells fear, you're in trouble.

The scent is in the air.

Does anyone have any idea what the ownership succession plan is when Davidson croaks? Not sure if he has ever been asked in an interview or commented on it. I know he has at least one son that he is sort of estranged from.

I will have major anger issues if they let someone walk in and sign Amir away.

TW,

Here is the thing, no owner wants to pay the tax, that is only natural I get that. Several of the owners scream their displeasure about the threshold, some even say they won't go into the luxury tax. However many of the owners who say they won't spend the tax, rethink that stance if it is the only way to get better, or if the right deal comes along. Miami, Indy, Utah, Cleveland, Phx and GSW's owners all said they wouldn't spend if it meant the luxury tax, however when they realized they could land another star, KG or felt it was the only way to get better their tunes changed to the do whatever it takes stance. My second major point is this yes Cuban and others have re-thought their spending because it didn't work but you need to give them credit for trying. Trying, losing money and scrapping that thinking is fine if you found out first hand, a lot is different than saying no regardless. How does Davidson know that in his case it wouldn't have or will not translate into a championship if he didn't or doesn't pay the tax.

Like I said I understand nobody wanting to pay taxes, and I get teams wanting to be fiscally responsible but to blindly have the stance hell no I won't pay is pure bullshit, it means dollars are more important than winning.

Also the tax threshold last season was projected around $65 million + or - 500k , so 10 teams out of 30 or 1/3 of the NBA were near or above the tax threshold. The official number will be established after the BRI is determined during this two week book keeping and actuary July Moratorium. So if the NBA growth was better than projected the number could be much higher; thus making another point why worry about a superficial number right now?



1. New York Knicks $117,024,192
2. Dallas Mavericks $88,531,846
3. Los Angeles Lakers $77,099,949
4. Portland Trailblazers $75,026,386
5. Philadelphia 76ers $69,140,163
6. Minnesota Timberwolves $66,788,931
7. Phoenix Suns $65,399,240
8. Denver Nuggets $65,370,484
9. San Antonio Spurs $65,327,646
10. Golden State Warriors $64,985,5 88

Also this next years potential growth will move that number experts say anywhere from 66 to 70 million if not greater. Therefore Detroit should not shit themselves since they right now are between 17-20 million under that number.

Plus when you look at long term fiscal situation, as it stands now Detroit only has 39 million on the book in 08-09, 28 in 09-10 and 18 million in 10-11, so going over the the threshold in 07-08 doesn't project to be Knick like if the extra spending doesn't work out.

The number of teams near or above threshold even if it stays worse case at 65 million will nearly double from 10 to 20 next season after teams sign their FA, picks and MLE or BAE players. Therefore a great majority of owners have realized that the luxury tax is part of life in the NBa.

1. New York Knicks
$88,285,521
2. Dallas Mavericks
$79,351,704
3. Denver Nuggets
$77,227,234
4. Phoenix Suns
$76,527,777
5. Minnesota Timberwolves
$69,200,256
6. Philadelphia 76ers
$65,343,410
7. Miami Heat
$64,570,442
8. Cleveland Cavaliers
$64,360,113
9. Boston Celtics
$63,407,925
10. Houston Rockets
$62,783,185
11. Indiana Pacers
$62,112,916
12. San Antonio Spurs
$61,812,108
13. Los Angeles Clippers
$59,634,330
14. Utah Jazz
$58,936,327
15. Los Angeles Lakers
$57,660,336
16. Washington Wizards
$57,637,752
17. Portland Trail Blazers
$57,137,925
18. Sacramento Kings
$53,994,090

*GSW and Detroit will both likely reach the 65 million dollar mark but I left them off for now.

There is no reason that a team that has made the ECF five years in a row is #21 in the league in payroll (and hoping to go lower).

Sure, you can say that it is just "fiscal responsibility" or spending smartly, but that only goes so far when you start leaving wins and possibly championships out on the floor.

When times are good, you spend.

The window is just too small to worry about "small dollars" when you are an elite franchise.

It's an insult to the fans, IMO.

right. and the list of teams who have potentially left multiple championships on the table in fear of the tax is pretty much limited to us, i'd say. no guarantees, but boy would a few extra quality pieces helped.

the pistons were in a position i suspect most owners would have gladly put fiscal responsibility aside and made moves. bill davidson wasnt one of them, and instead of winning multiple championships were waiting however many years for this group to dissolve, and then building back up for hopefully another one by the year 2015 or so.

good thing the pistons dont care about winning championships.

right. and the list of teams who have potentially left multiple championships on the table in fear of the tax is pretty much limited to us, i'd say. no guarantees, but boy would a few extra quality pieces helped.

the pistons were in a position i suspect most owners would have gladly put fiscal responsibility aside and made moves. bill davidson wasnt one of them, and instead of winning multiple championships were waiting however many years for this group to dissolve, and then building back up for hopefully another one by the year 2015 or so.

good thing the pistons dont care about winning championships.


Exactly what championships did we leave because we'd rather save money?

After the first title, we got rid of Corliss Williamson who, as I remember it, was pretty awful during the title run. Do we beat the Spurs that year if we had Corliss? Is that what you all are saying? Highly doubtful that he'd had been the difference in that series.

Yes we lost Mike James and Mehmut Okur as well but we couldn't resign either of them anyways because we didn't have their Bird rights.... Nevermind the luxury tax, we couldn't fit them under the Cap.... The Knicks would have lost those players as well. The only way to keep Okur was to lose Sheed. And the only way to keep James was to use the MLE which means...., you guessed it, No Antonio McDyess.....

Last year, we dumped Darko and Arroyo which has no bearing on what would have happened in the playoffs... I hope we all can agree on that...

Losing Ben Wallace? Does anyone really believe that we'd even have a prayer against the Spurs this year with Ben Wallace on this team? No way

We've used the MLE every year to try to add that final piece but it hasn't work. The only difference maker we have lost is Ben Wallace and tax or no tax, he wasn't worth 15 million dollars.

Train Wreck...how'd you come up with that name?

Train Wreck = Very good.

Exactly what championships did we leave because we'd rather save money?

After the first title, we got rid of Corliss Williamson who, as I remember it, was pretty awful during the title run. Do we beat the Spurs that year if we had Corliss? Is that what you all are saying? Highly doubtful that he'd had been the difference in that series.

Yes we lost Mike James and Mehmut Okur as well but we couldn't resign either of them anyways because we didn't have their Bird rights.... Nevermind the luxury tax, we couldn't fit them under the Cap.... The Knicks would have lost those players as well. The only way to keep Okur was to lose Sheed. And the only way to keep James was to use the MLE which means...., you guessed it, No Antonio McDyess.....

Last year, we dumped Darko and Arroyo which has no bearing on what would have happened in the playoffs... I hope we all can agree on that...

Losing Ben Wallace? Does anyone really believe that we'd even have a prayer against the Spurs this year with Ben Wallace on this team? No way

We've used the MLE every year to try to add that final piece but it hasn't work. The only difference maker we have lost is Ben Wallace and tax or no tax, he wasn't worth 15 million dollars.

imo, the 2004 pistons were pretty much a perfect team. i would have bet anything in 2004 that that wouldnt be our only championship.

yea, we had to lose memo and james, no complaints there. but that doesnt give joe/ bill davidson a pass for relying on basically 6 1/2 men for the last 3 years. there are SO many things we could have done differently that would have led to a better outcome, and i dont doubt joe is more aware of this than i am, but he decided to go w/ fiscal responsibility rather than making another push towards a championship.

and it does piss me off because actually having a chance to win a championship is pretty rare. i'd say no more than 3-4 teams in any given year really have a realistic chance at a championship. look at the record books, the pistons are the what, 5th winningest franchise with 3 rings. it should have been more. lets face it, joe had a TON of luck building this team. there wont always be a ben wallace or chauncy billups available at half price. teams arent always giving away rasheed wallaces. the differences between elite coaches and 2nd tier are huge, and its not always possible to get those elite coaches.

After the Championship, Joe was ordered to dump Corliss because of the lux tax in 05-06 (even though there was no CBA in place) not for the 04-05 season which was next. In return we got Coleman who was just an expiring deal essentially, but we had the chance to get more talented players but Joe couldn't take on the salary.

Also granted Corliss wasn't going to bring us a super star but he could have gotten us a contributor, like Eric Snow. Had Joe gotten Snow we could have kept Soup (yes I know he came back) and our pick or used them to leverage another deal to help repeat.

Secondly Joe held on to Darko too long because he thought he would develop, yet when it became matter of lux tax possibilities he dumped him for nothing under the guise of re-signing Ben. So once again we dumped players for a guy who couldn't contribute, but had Joe been willing to take on the salary he could have gotten a contributor elsewhere.

Third after selling us on re-signing Ben, the team failed to do so. Now like I said the contract was stupid, but Paxson wanted to dump Chandler and was willing to S&T for Ben with him. However instead of stealing Chandler we passed because Mr. D didn't feel Chandler was worth it and refused to pay tax after Chauncey was a FA. So we lost Ben for nothing. However we could of had Chandler, who was a bargain when you look at his salary and production from last year plus he was 9 years younger. Had we taken back Chandler we would have had a C and could have used the MLE on a depth player like Wells or Patterson and not on Nazr. So you can't say that Joe did everything he could and money wasn't factor in many situations where we traded guys.

I don't question that certain guys needed to move on but when you get no immediate return you can't say it didn't hurt the teams depth or ability to get better and win a championship.

Lastly the Pistons did a great job in putting the team together, but Joe has failed to take advantage of his ability because of fiscal concerns. Instead of being thankful that they had such great talent cheap, and realizing the time to pay would come they take the hard stance nobody is worth extra money.

Well stated JS, as usual.

You have to look at not only the moves that Joe made, but also at the moves he didn't make.

The refusal to take back quality players in any of these deals just because they had years/salary left is what screwed this team's depth and possibly cost them rings.

Looks like Tom Wilson got to McCosky. Look for the other organizational mouthpiece (Keith Langlois) to write a similar piece in the next day or so.

:mccosky:


Pistons owner Davidson faces some taxing decisions

AUBURN HILLS -- It's probably as good a time as any to clear up a popular misconception.

Pistons owner Bill Davidson never has declared publicly that he flat-out refused to ever pay the luxury tax. He doesn't want to pay it, obviously. He no doubt has instructed president Joe Dumars to avoid it, if at all possible.

But Davidson also knows there is a price to pay for continued success. You don't win 50-plus games and advance to the Eastern Conference finals five straight years without having to expand the payroll.

Davidson understands that. To criticize him for being too cheap to pay the luxury tax is premature and presumptuous, if not just wrong.

Paying the tax has not been an issue until this summer. The Pistons, because of Dumars' uncanny ability to tap unproven (and thus inexpensive) talent, have managed to keep their payroll in the middle of the NBA pack during this five-year run. But in the last couple of years, they have had to shell out sizeable contracts to Rasheed Wallace, Richard Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince, and now they will have to pony up to keep Chauncey Billups.

They also want to sign another free agent to a mid-level contract, which this year could start as high as $6 million, and re-sign promising young forward Amir Johnson.

They are knocking on the luxury-tax door.

The Pistons presently are on the books for roughly $53 million in salaries for next season. That includes the two first-round draft picks, but not Billups, Chris Webber or Alex Acker.

The luxury-tax threshold last season was $65.4 million. It is expected to increase slightly this summer, but for the sake of this illustration, let's leave it at $65 million.

If the Pistons were to sign Billups to a deal starting at $13 million (which is in the ballpark), that alone puts them over the threshold. So, if they were to sign Johnson for, say, $3 million on top of that, that contract would in effect cost them $6 million. The luxury tax is one dollar for every dollar over the threshold.

You can see where this might get sticky. The Pistons might get lucky and be able to divide their mid-level exception between Johnson and a free agent (say Grant Hill, whom the Pistons covet). If they can bring those two players back for $6 million, Davidson might not balk at having to pay the tax on that.

But, if signing Billups and Hill takes them right to the threshold, and Johnson gets a $6 million offer from another team, that could be a tougher sell. That would in effect be a $12 million contract for an unproven 20-year-old.

It’s easy for us to say, "What's another $12 million to a billionaire like Mr. D?" But he didn't get to be a billionaire by being imprudent.

I still don't understand why Chicago would do a S&T giving us Chandler. They could sign Ben without it, so why did they need to give us Chandler in the deal?

Well, I don't think we can sign Billups and give Amir a decent contract without venturing into lux tax, so we'll find out soon what kind of shape the Pistons are in as an organization. I want to keep them both, and would probably give up on the franchise out of disgust if we didn't keep them both because of the luxury tax.

I still don't understand why Chicago would do a S&T giving us Chandler. They could sign Ben without it, so why did they need to give us Chandler in the deal?

Had they gotten rid of Chandler in a S&T for Ben, they would have still had over 10 million dollars in cap space, and they could have spent that on FA they wanted or saved the space till the deadline.

Why does Amir have to come from the MLE? Don't we have rights to him?

Doesn't the early bird exception apply to Amir? They shouldn't need to use any of the MLE on him.

Doesn't the early bird exception apply to Amir? They shouldn't need to use any of the MLE on him.

Good question and Zek's too.

Where is KSTAT when you need him.

EDIT should have started with great news CBill still a Piston

KSTAT I know the CBA questions prolly get boring for you, but why do we need to use MLE on Amir?

KSTAT I know the CBA questions prolly get boring for you, but why do we need to use MLE on Amir?

I think the early bird exception only applies to a certain point.

I could be wrong, but I think 2nd rounders need to be re-signed with exceptions if you're over the cap.

If we have Amir's Early Bird rights, as I have heard, then we shouldn't have to use any of the MLE if this is correct.


EARLY BIRD EXCEPTION --
This is a weaker form of the Larry Bird exception, and is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. A player qualifies for this exception after playing two seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. Using this exception, a team may re-sign its own free agent for 175% of his salary the previous season or the average player salary, whichever is greater (see question number 24 for the definition of "average salary." Also note that for 2005-06 they used a defined figure of $5 million). Early Bird contracts must be for at least two seasons (which limits this exception's usefulness -- it's often better to take a lower salary for one more season and then have the full Bird exception available the next season) and no longer than five seasons. A player can receive raises up to 10.5% of the salary in the first season of the contract using this exception.

If the player was a first round draft pick and just completed the second year of his rookie scale contract, but his team did not exercise their option to extend the contract for the third season (see question number 38), then this exception cannot be used to give him a salary greater than he would have received had the team exercised their third year option. In other words, teams can't decline the option in order to get around the salary scale and give the player more money.

If the player is a restricted free agent with two years of service and receives an offer sheet from a new team, the player's prior team may use the Early Bird exception to match the offer sheet (see question number 36 for restricted free agency).

Starting January 10 of each season, this exception begins to reduce in value. See question number 20 for details.

So we don't have to use the MLE on him. Very good!

I was just reading the Clutch City (Rockets fans) message board and they are frothing at the mouth about potentially signing Amir to an offer sheet.

Can any of our "salary cap experts" clear up this confusion 100%?

Why are all of the Pistons beat writers stating over and over that Joe hopes to split the MLE between Amir and Grant Hill? The excerpt from the Larry Coon FAQ that I posted earlier makes it pretty clear that we don't have to use any of the MLE on Amir if we have his Early Bird rights.

So do we have his early Bird rights?

Can we re-sign him without using the MLE?

Do we have the worst beat writers or what?

Does the timing of Chauncey's deal being signed affect this? Do we have more options if we take care of Amir before or after Billups re-signs or is there no difference?

Could the Amir situation be holding up the Billups signing?

Anybody that wants to tackle these questions, please do so.

The "split the MLE" is just a figure of speach, like how they say "the pistons are trying to stay under the cap" when we've been over it for years and they mean "stay under the tax threshold". The MLE is the amount of $ Joe wants to spend.

We don't have to use the MLE to sign Amir, the way I understand the how the Gilbert Arenas provision is supposed to work.

I just just about to post the Arenas rule, Mxy, I guess I will anyways.

I thought it might make it more clear, but I'm even more confused now.


37. What is the "Gilbert Arenas" provision?

With the previous CBA it was sometimes possible to sign restricted free agents to offer sheets their original teams couldn't match. This happened when a player was an Early Bird or Non-Bird free agent (see question number 19) and the team didn't have enough cap room to match a sufficiently large offer. For example, Gilbert Arenas was Golden State's second round draft pick in 2001, and became an Early Bird free agent in 2003. Golden State therefore could only match an offer sheet (or sign Arenas themselves) for up to the average salary (see question number 24), which was about $4.9 million. Washington signed Arenas to an offer sheet with a starting salary of about $8.5 million, which Golden State was powerless to match.

This loophole was addressed in the current CBA (although not closed completely -- see below). Teams are now limited in the salary they can offer in an offer sheet to a restricted free agent with one or two years in the league. The first-year salary in the offer sheet cannot be greater than the average salary (see question number 24). Limiting the first year salary in this way guarantees that the player's original team will be able to match the offer sheet by using the Early Bird exception (if applicable -- see question number 19), or Mid-Level exception (provided they haven't used it already).

The second year salary in such an offer sheet is limited to the standard 8% raise. The third year salary can jump considerably -- it is allowed to be as high as it would have been had the first year salary not been limited by this rule to the average salary. Raises (and decreases) after the third season are limited to 6.9% of the salary in the third season. The offer sheet can only contain the large jump in the third season if it provides the maximum salary allowed in the first two seasons. In addition, the offer must be guaranteed and cannot contain bonuses of any kind.

If the raise in the third season exceeds the standard raise (8% of the salary in the first season of the contract), then they place an additional restriction on the team. In order to determine the size of the offer the team can make, they don't fit just the first year salary under the cap. Instead, they must fit the average salary in the entire contract under the cap. So a team $8 million under the cap is limited to offering a total of $24 million over three years, $32 million over four years, or $40 million over five years. If the offer sheet does not contain a third-season raise larger than 8% of the first-season salary, then they only have to fit the first year salary under the cap.

Putting this all together, if a team is $11 million under the cap, wants to submit a five year offer sheet, and wants to provide a large raise in the third season, they can offer a total of $55 million. If the average salary is $5 million, then the second year salary will be $5.4 million (8% raise). This leaves $44.6 million to be distributed over the final three seasons. With 6.9% raises in years four and five, the entire contract looks like this:



1
$5.0 million
Average salary amount

2
$5.4 million
8% raise over season 1

3
$13.907 million
This is the amount that yields $44.6 million over the
final three seasons with 6.9% raises*

4
$14.867 million
Raise is 6.9% of season 3 salary

5
$15.826 million
Raise is 6.9% of season 3 salary

Total
$55 million
Average is $11 million, which equals the team's cap room

* If you want to know how I got that exact amount, (for a five year offer) you solve for (5R - 2.08A) / 3.207. R is the room the team has under the cap. A is the average salary amount (e.g., $5 million). The 2.08 represents the salary in the first two seasons (100% of the average, plus 108% of the average). The 3.207 represents the salary in the last three seasons, using 6.9% raises: 1.0 + 1.069 + 1.138 = 3.207. Similarly, for a four year offer you would solve for (4R - 2.08A) / 2.069.

For the team making this offer, this contract would count for $11.0 million (i.e., the average salary in the contract) of team salary in each of the five seasons if they sign the player. If the player's prior team matches the offer and keeps the player, then the actual salary in each season counts as team salary. The player's original team is allowed to use any available exception (e.g., the Mid-Level or the Early-Bird) to match the offer.

Since a team must fit the average salary from the entire contract under the cap in order to offer the large third-season raise, a team must have some amount of cap room above the average salary amount in order to effectively utilize this provision. For example, suppose the average salary amount is $5 million, and a team with $5.1 million of cap room wants to provide a five year offer sheet. If they want to offer a larger-than-normal third-year raise, then their cap room will be determined by the contract's average salary, so the total contract must pay $25.5 million or less. If they offer $5 million and $5.4 million in the first two seasons, then that leaves just $15.1 million for the final three seasons -- so there must be a decrease in salary in the final three seasons. A team in this situation is better off providing the standard 8% raise in the third season, which does not trigger the cap room requirement based on averaging. In this example, a five year offer starting at $5 million with 8% raises would total $29.0 million.

As I said above, the loophole was addressed with this rule, but not closed completely. This is because this provision is primarily intended to protect teams from losing their successful second round picks, who are Early-Bird free agents after two years. There are several situations where a team still might be unable to match an offer sheet:

If the player is a Non-Bird free agent and the team already used their Mid-Level exception to sign another player.

If the player is a Non-Bird or Early Bird free agent with three years in the league (this rule applies only to players with one or two years in the league).

If a team has two Non-Bird free agents with one or two years in the league. They can use the Mid-Level exception to keep one of them, but would lose the other.

This provision also ensures that second round picks can't cash in with a maximum salary sooner than first round picks can.

[Well fuck, this was pretty much covered by the above.]

The Indy beat writer is pretty bad.

Yes we have EBR to Amir.

The part where I am getting confused is the part that I put in bold.

If we can sign him using either the EBE or the MLE, why would we or any team for that matter, choose to not use the EBE and instead opt to use the MLE?

To get the EBE, he has to be on the same team for 2 years. Imagine a second year player that went from one team to another -- perhaps waived by team 1, then he breaks out with team 2. Team 2 wouldn't have his EBE, but the other teams couldn't offer him more than the MLE in year 3, so they could always match to at least some degree.

If he could be considered a beat writer, I think I would move Keith Langlois to the top of the Pistons Beat Writer Power Rankings (PBWPR).


Gerald (Detroit): The Pistons are in need of a small forward that can come in and produce now. Should the Pistons give Amir Johnson their mid-level exception or use it on Grant Hill or another free agent?

Langlois: The Pistons don’t have to use their mid-level exception on their own restricted free agent. They can sign someone – Hill or another unrestricted free agent – to all or part of the MLE and still retain the right to match whatever offer Johnson brings back to them from another club.

I think I'll email this to McCosky and ASB.

You want to be spoken down to via email?

Yep, I'm going to get quite a lecture from McCosky.

We'll see if he replies or not.

I was very respectful, which means he will probably attack.

This is a couple of days old, but interesting nonetheless.

http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2007/07/another_way_to_spend_the_rocke.html


Another way to spend the Rockets' money

Now that the free agency period has begun, there is a way to spend the Rockets' money and go back to Thursday night's draft at the same time.

Let's say the Rockets could have a player worthy of a top 10 pick, likely between four and eight. Let us further say he would be a power forward, with terrific lift, long arms. Imagine a kid with the build of a young Robert Horry.

But since we're not technically going back to the draft, it would not matter that the Rockets did not have a pick so high in the draft and do not plan to. It does not even matter than the draft is over.

The catch is that the player would be a bit of a project, unlikely to contribute much to a strong team until sometime along the way in the season after next. And as a project, he would be a gamble, though with potential to pay off big time.

All the Rockets would need is a willingness to offer the sort of pile of money that goes to players taken in the top third of the first round to a player entirely unproven, and the usual chunk of luck.

Oh, it would also mean spending most of the mid-level exception allowance on a kid project.

Would you do it?

The Pistons took Amir Johnson late in the second round of the 2005 draft. He has spent most of his time since tearing up the NBA Development League. By February's trade deadline, he had a buzz going as the first untouchable player in the history of the D-League.

Johnson is a restricted free agent now and the Pistons have said they would match whatever he is offered. But they have more pressing free agent issues, starting with locking up Chauncey Billups.

If the Rockets offered a contract that starts at $3 million, maybe $3.5 million, could a team with Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess and Jason Maxiell at the position match as an investment?

The Rockets would still have to add one veteran pro at the position, likely through a trade. But that's the plan anyway. Johnson, still just two years out of high school, is still a project. And as a project, he is a gamble.

But if the Rockets cannot land someone they would want to take their mid-level, this could be a worthwhile investment. If they were awarded a high first round pick, and Johnson was the best available, they would give that kind of cash to a young, talented project happily.

The Pistons might match. But unless the Rockets find a better, more sure-thing way to spend their allowance, it might be worth calling their bluff.

:mccosky:


You might have noticed that Amir Johnson hasn't made his way to Vegas just yet. That's because he is unsigned. He could sign as early as Wednesday and would most likely join the team and play in three games, plus a couple of controlled scrimmages. The Pistons are getting close to finalizing a three-year deal with Johnson that would pay him close to $10 million. Joe Dumars has made it clear across the league that he was matching any offer for Johnson, so teams have pretty much stayed away.

$10.5 million seems steap for a pure potential player. I hope it works out.

$10.5 million seems steap for a pure potential player. I hope it works out.

10.5 mil over 3 years would make him start at about 3 mil. Many experts say he'd probably be drafted right after Durant if he were in the draft this year. BTW, here is Durant's contract:


Kevin Durant the second overall choice in last week's NBA draft, signed a contract with the Seattle SuperSonics yesterday. He will make $3.476 million as a rookie and $3.736 million in the second year.

So, if you believe Amir is the a top 5-7 player in the draft this year (assuming he was in it), then you paid him appropriately. If not, then you overpaid.

I would say that Durant and Oden are more proven (or at least, less of a gamble) then Amir.

I would say that Durant and Oden are more proven (or at least, less of a gamble) then Amir.

That is true, but they are also the top two players by far. You need to compare Amir to Yi, Conley, Green, Hawes, etc. That's the range people are talking about. In reality, you have to compare him to Yi, Hawes, Noah since those are the big men that Amir would be drafted against. Would you rather have those players or Amir? I'd rather draft Amir than Noah, I can definately say that.

Who outside the organization other than Ford has prasied him?

His mom, I would hope. Otherwise the kid probably needs a hug.

It's been pretty widely reported/expoused that if he were in the recent draft he would have been a lottery pick.

Pitino liked him enough to offer him a scholarship, not that that says very much.

I'm no expert by any means, but just watching him in the limited action he got with the Pistons has me excited for his potential. I know that is a dirty word, but he went down and worked hard and dominated the kids at the NBDL, so he's pretty much done everything that has been asked of him.

I look at him as our last great chance to strike gold with a young phenom, especially with Joe's draft history.

So for me, it's part what I've seen and part hope.

So, if you believe Amir is the a top 5-7 player in the draft this year (assuming he was in it), then you paid him appropriately. If not, then you overpaid.

I disagree. Do you think a team in the 5-7 range would give you their pick for 3.3 mil a year for 3 years? Of course not. You have to pay more. Basically by signing Amir to 3 years 10 mil Joe D is buying a 1st round pick, a 1st round pick which they already have had a year of close evaluation and have a good idea of how he will develop.

With as tight as the franchise is being run, if they had any indication that he wasn't at least going to pan out to match his salary, you can be damn sure they'd let someone else sign him.

I've heard a lot of ESPN and other NBA analysts say he would definately be a lotto pick this year. That doesn't mean he'll pan out. The same experts said Delfino would have been a lotto pick the year after we drafted him too.

I'm not saying he will or won't be worth the money. I'm just saying you have to compare the risk of him versus the risk of Hawes, Yi and Noah (big men who are comparable in draft potential).

Hmmmmm.....Random "widely reported" and "other analysists".

I heard Ford say it along with local beat guys who were fed things from Hammond and Joe. Maybe some crappy national guy parrotted it, but I'm thinking you guys may be biting a hook here.

Hmmmmm.....Random "widely reported" and "other analysists".

I heard Ford say it along with local beat guys who were fed things from Hammond and Joe. Maybe some crappy national guy parrotted it, but I'm thinking you guys may be biting a hook here.

What good would it do to name the names of analysts that like him? You can shoot anybody's opinion down.

While your critical thinking and skepticism should be admired, are you saying they should just let him go because you can't believe what anyone says?

We've all seen him play, anybody here that feels good about him has a right to I think, since he hasn't shown anything that would suggest that he's going to flop, IMO.

But is a part of this a leap of faith? Sure.

I asked who outside the organization had praised him. I did not ask if he hires prositutes, has a jumper out to 25 feet, or is made of Philladelphia Cream Cheese. I want to know why we compare him to lottery picks.

The salary idea is silly. Big Dog got a billion dollars before a cap was set on draft picks, don't compare worth based on salary, Oden could get the max if he was a FA.

I have nothing against Amir, I'm asking for some accountability on what has now become accepted as fact on message boards.

I'm not saying it's not a leap of faith, just that it's no more of a leap then many players making the same money in the draft.

Look at where guys like Curry and Chandler were taken. I don't have their high school numbers, but Amir's are pretty impressive (especially when you consider he didn't play his junior year while transferring):


Led Los Angeles Westchester HS to the state championship his senior year while averaging 21 points, 15 rebounds, and 8 blocked shots a game.

Named Mr. Basketball in California his senior year.

Sat out his junior season at Westchester.

Played at Verbum Dei High School his sophomore year.

I think there's really know way of knowing where he would have gone in the draft had he stayed in college. He could have dominated in college, but he could have been just solid and come out as an early 20's pick just as easily. Either way, I think this is a solid deal because if he works out, we did great, and if he doesn't work out its small enough that we can still trade him to someone that loves his potential for something worthwhile.

That resume made him the 56th best player in his draft in some people's opinion.

I see no reason he won't be a player in this league, I have just as much faith as you, I just want the evidence on the table.

He was rated the #2 center out of high school behind Bynum and 10th overall (behind some notables like Gerald Green, Monta Ellis, Julian Wright, Chalmers, and McRoberts).

Don't know what to take from that, but just an FYI when I was googling his draft profile.

I've heard a lot of ESPN and other NBA analysts say he would definately be a lotto pick this year. That doesn't mean he'll pan out. The same experts said Delfino would have been a lotto pick the year after we drafted him too.
Delfino was looking like a lottery pick until his injury, and it was another injury that likely took him out of lotto range in the first place.

Delfino did and still does have lottery talent IMO. He just plays like he doesn't care. If he had the hunger of Manu then he'd still be here and would probably be a 6th man canidate putting up 13 PPG, 5 RPG and 3 APG. We'd probably also have another 1-2 titles if he played like that consistantly.

Trouble is, he floats out there.

:lathamjahnke:


Billups to sign today; Johnson deal is in works
July 11, 2007

BY KRISTA JAHNKE
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

LAS VEGAS -- The Pistons will officially sign Chauncey Billups today, and, if all goes well, they'll wrap up Amir Johnson, too.

Billups, an unrestricted free agent, agreed last week to a five-year contract worth $60.5 million, with the fifth year a non-guaranteed team option. Today is the first day players can sign new deals.

The Pistons made Johnson, a restricted free agent, a qualifying offer. They have seven days to match any deal offered by another team.

No other team was thought to be in serious discussions with the third-year forward, though, and the Pistons have made it clear they plan to match any deal thrown his way.

The Pistons hope to finalize a deal today. Johnson is not in town for the NBA's summer league, but he is expected to show up if his deal is completed before the playing schedule ends Saturday. The team plays at 3 p.m. today Las Vegas time (6 p.m. in Detroit) but didn't expect to have Johnson in uniform quite that quickly.

That resume made him the 56th best player in his draft in some people's opinion.



He was also 20 pounds lighter, 3 inches shorter and quite a bit less developed.

He was also 20 pounds lighter, 3 inches shorter and quite a bit less developed.

He is not 3 inches taller, and I would expect every HS PF would add 35 lbs by the time he's ready to play in the NBA.

I think he did grow 1-2 inches since being drafted. he was 6'9" in high school and they claimed last year (i forget when) that he was up to 6'11" with the Pistons.

He was 6-9 when drafted, and 6-10 as of this spring per ASB.

and I would expect every HS PF would add 35 lbs by the time he's ready to play in the NBA.

35 pounds in two years is easier said than done.

Do you think PF prospect and #8 overall pick Brendan Wright added 35 pounds in the past year since he was in high school? I'm thinking no.

And if you asked me who I would rather add to my team as a PF prospect; 19 year old 6'10" 200 pound Brendan Wright or 20 year old 6'10" 225 pound Amir Johnson?!?!

I'd go with Amir Johnson without hesitation. And I'm willing to bet that there's more than a few NBA GM's who would agree with me.

He was 6-9 when drafted, and 6-10 as of this spring per ASB.

That inch does make a difference though. 6'9" is considered undersized for a PF these days and 6'10" is considered average.

PG's that are 5'11" drop in the draft whereas a 6' PG probably doesn't drop at all.

I bet Brendan Wright will have added as much weight as his body needs to be successful just like every other player, and I bet people won't be tossing in around on message boards making a dope of themselves like it's a big deal for a young player to do so. They just said Samb added 25 pounds and wants to add more in the past 8 months, so it's not special.

And I will quickly take that bet at 10x1 odds.

That inch does make a difference though. 6'9" is considered undersized for a PF these days and 6'10" is considered average.




Agreed Chris, that is the heigth you want a PF now, but I just want to make sure we aren't saying he's grown to 7 foot tall. All I've asked for is a bit of accountability and not to run with the Piston propaganda too far.

It's funny how this looks like it is going to pan out.

We had all these discussions about the beat writers mistakenly saying that the Pistons would use part or all of their MLE to re-sign Amir when that really wasn't the case at all.

But in effect, that's the way it's going to turn out.

Joe can use Amir's Early Bird rights to sign him right to the tax level, or a little under (leaving a little room to sign a guy or two at the vet's min), which means they won't use the MLE, which means that using the EBE is exactly the same thing as using the MLE to sign Amir.

They were still wrong, but the result is not going to be any different, or so it seems.

Yeah, i'm not sure where he got the 3 inches from. I did hear he was close to 6'11" but I couldn't say where that came from (may not be legit). He's definately not a 7 footer though. If you see him standing next to Sheed, they are basically dead even in hieght. There is a noticible difference between them and Max too (a couple inches).

I suppose his point is that Amir was probably thought of as a combo "forward" out of high school and now has the size to be a true PF, possibly a PF/C in the Amare or Bosh mold (can play center but not enough muscle to bang with big Z, Shaq, etc). If people saw him as more of a big man versus a "forward" then he might have gone a little higher.

:mccosky:


The second order of business, locking up 20-year-old power forward Amir Johnson, wasn't as swift.

Johnson was expected to join the summer league team in Las Vegas on Wednesday afternoon -- an indication a deal was imminent -- but he did not play.

The deal is still not done. The Pistons are believed to have offered a three-year deal worth as much as $10 million. It's possible that Bill Duffy, Johnson's agent, might have had interest from another team, maybe San Antonio. But the Pistons have made it clear they will match any offer.

I hope Joe isn't thinking about S&Ting Amir to the Spurs (Jackie Butler + Scola's rights?)


At least two teams have inquired about Butler's availability during the past week, and the Spurs are expected to consider any deal that would allow them to get out of paying the $2.4 million he has on his contract this season.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA071207.01C.BKNspurs.butler.white.3546a2e.html

:lathamjahnke:


It's also thought that Johnson's camp will push for a three-year deal, while the Pistons would love to lock him up for five.

Johnson, who turned 20 in May, was the 56th overall pick in the 2005 draft. He has impressed the Pistons' brass with his athleticism as well as his near 7-foot size.

Just get it done already, I want to see the kid in Vegas.

Sources: Pistons, forward Johnson agree to 3-year deal
ESPN.com news services

Updated: July 12, 2007, 4:39 PM ET

Restricted free-agent forward Amir Johnson has agreed to re-sign with the Detroit Pistons in a three-year deal worth an estimated $12 million, NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com on Thursday.

The Pistons have now realized their top two off-season priorities by retaining the promising young Johnson and keeping 2004 NBA Finals MVP Chauncey Billups.

The Pistons have hardly used Johnson since taking him with the 56th pick in the 2005 NBA Draft. In two seasons with Detroit, Johnson has played in just 11 games.

He posted a career-high 20 points on 10-for-14 shooting in this season's finale against the Celtics.

finally, well i expected 3 per year, 4 is ok too, i guess...now lets hope we will see Amir on the court regularly...i guess he will make 3.5 this year, 4 and 4.5...

I started him at 3.3 with %20 raises and it was 12 mil total. Not sure if that is the deal or not. I would imagine Joe wants the number low this year in case he needs to use some of the MLE on a backup SF or even a C.

35 pounds in two years is easier said than done.


It's easy period if you got the room for it.
1.4 pounds a month. That doesn't take any special diet or hard work(running in Siberia like Rocky IV). Just a regular workout routine.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA071307.01D.BKNspurs.trade.35d9aa1.html


"The Spurs re-signed two of their own free agents Thursday, solidifying deals with forward Matt Bonner (three years, $9 million) and Jacque Vaughn (two years, $2.5 million). They had hoped to also sign Detroit forward Amir Johnson to an offer sheet, but he agreed to take less money (three years, $11 million) to stay with the Pistons."

Hermy, does the fact that the Spurs were willing to pay Amir more than he took from the Pistons make you feel any better about this?

Just curious.

Hermy, does the fact that the Spurs were willing to pay Amir more than he took from the Pistons make you feel any better about this?

Just curious.

Honestly, if that story is in fact true, yes. Big Spurs fan, and I assume everyone here respects what they do over there with their eye for talent.

But I never felt bad about paying him this much. I feel bad about people stating he would have been a lottery pick as fact.

Nobody can state that as a fact. That's just what many experts say. Lampe was thought to be a lotto pick a few years ago and slipped to the 2nd round. You can't say anything is certain in a draft (outside Duncan and Lebron going #1).

I can see what you are saying though, Herm.

People that state opinion as fact on messageboards are annoying as hell. (Whenever I catch myself about to do it, I slip in the "IMO").

We used to have a kid here that did that shit all the time and it made we want to punch my screen.

People that state opinion as fact on messageboards are annoying as hell, IMO.

Fixed.

Nobody can state that as a fact. That's just what many experts say. Lampe was thought to be a lotto pick a few years ago and slipped to the 2nd round. You can't say anything is certain in a draft (outside Duncan and Lebron going #1).



^couldn't agree more.

I can see what you are saying though, Herm.

People that state opinion as fact on messageboards are annoying as hell. (Whenever I catch myself about to do it, I slip in the "IMO").

We used to have a kid here that did that shit all the time and it made we want to punch my screen.

With me, I just assume that practically everything that people state in here is in fact their opinion and not fact whether they slip in the "IMO" or not.

Unless they're posting statistics, people are just providing their own personal understanding of the situation. There shouldn't need to be a preface or a consummation before or after their posts in order for people to realize that.

I feel bad about people stating he would have been a lottery pick as fact.
I feel bad about people assuming that because he was drafted #56 one year, that he'd be drafted #56 in subsequent years. He's grown a couple inches and gained some bulk, and demonstrated some skills against NBDL teams that I'd argue would be of NCAA tournament caliber. And, keep in mind that there were folks in the DraftCity/DraftExpress crowd at the time saying he was a lottery pick if he stayed in school. There was even some speculation that we might draft Amir with our 1st round pick.

I feel bad about people assuming that because he was drafted #56 one year, that he'd be drafted #56 in subsequent years. .


0 people have done that, or even assume he wouldn't have been a first round pick.

Unless they're posting statistics, people are just providing their own personal understanding of the situation.


A draft position is a statistic.

0 people have done that, or even assume he wouldn't have been a first round pick.


I see fools talking about playing 2nd round trash we have lying around. Are some of you in full rebuild mode? We aren't going into the lottery here guys, we've got a great core we can run with for 4 more years, it fits the modern NBA, Chauncey, Rip, and Sheed aren't going to have their games decline as they age. I beleive in swinging for the fences a couple more times here, we just have to find a way to take on some $, and make a center magically appear. I hope everyone else here is on board and doesn't think Amir needs to be the finishing piece.

Wow, those 2 posts are completely unrelated, well done.

Yes they are. You think he's 2nd round trash, then you said that nobody claimed he wouldn't be a first round pick this year if he were in the draft.

So do you consider him a 2nd round talent, or a first round talent?

Never said he was 2nd round trash. I said people wanted to play our 2nd round trash, (who was eventually Sammy). I said not to plan on Amir being the final piece this year. That is all I said there. Never do I so much as hint at Amir's imaginary draft status this year.

On a total sidebar, my OPINION is that if he had been in the draft this year he would have been near the lottery, but that's hard to judge from his NBDL successes as there is no related precident. I'm not going to state that as fact, as it isn't one. He may have been a 2nd round pick, we don't know.

I didn't realize you were referring to Samb there (the 2nd round trash). I agree that it's absurd to think Samb should be here contributing. He's better off in the D League than rotting on the bench like Darko did.

I think he meant Mejia, actually.

Oh. I actually think he might be able to help in certain situations, but I wouldn't count on him being in any rotation any time soon either.

Both would qualify. Mxy is a good politician. John Kerry voted against the war before he voted for it.

They (the spurs) had hoped to also sign Detroit forward Amir Johnson to an offer sheet, but he agreed to take less money (three years, $11 million) to stay with the Pistons

Do you think the amir johnson thing was a PR move to throw off the cost cutting maneuver? Even if amir wanted to play with the pistons, why not take the highest offer and get the pistons to match?

why not take the highest offer and get the pistons to match?
What in the past 5 years has given you the idea that we'd play "match the higher numbers" with any FA who isn't a starter?:mccosky:

The San Antonio Spurs will turn their focus to Portland Trailblazers' forward Ime Udoka, after Detroit Pistons' forward Amir Johnson agreed to take less money (three years, $11 million) to stay with the Pistons.

Wow, the Spurs were interested? That's awesome that he took less to stay with us instead of forcing us to match. The Spurs aren't exactly chopped liver, as an organization, they're even better than us. The fact they are interested bodes well for Amir's future. Just like I was worried when the Spurs didn't even bother trying to re-sign Nazr Mohammad. Boy were they right on that one.

Might have been a favor to us that they offered 3 yrs 11 mil, they knew Detroit would match. San Antonio and DEtroit have a good relationship.

time to buy that Amir jersey for next season

check this out...

http://sportsline.com/columns/story/10257542






Back to the NBA, the idiot in charge of the Detroit Pistons has committed three years and $11 million to Amir Johnson, or $1 million for every game he has played in a worthless two-year career.

I was sending him a nasty-gram when I read his bio posted by Sportsline on their writter.


That picture of Gregg Doyel is misleading. He's not that tall. He's not that muscular. And the hair? It's all wrong. It's not blonde (today), and it's not that long. It's stubbly, which gives him a rugged look to compensate for ... other things.

Doyel's an idiot, but you knew that. That's why you're here, right? To find out, "Who is this idiot?"

This idiot is 36. He was born in Hawaii, raised in Mississippi and sent to high school in Georgia. He might have gone to college, but we're not talking about that. He has written two books, neither of them good. He has won writing awards, which shows you what a writing award is worth these days. Doyel's the kind of guy who plays golf by himself, shoots baskets in an empty gym, and he's starting to figure out just how much people don't like him.

Misunderstood, Doyel lives life by two phrases. He wrote neither of them, because as anyone will tell you, he's not good enough to come up with this stuff himself.

The first comes from My Name Is by Eminem: "I don't give a f---, dog. God sent me to piss the world off."

The second comes from The Rose by Bette Midler: "I say love, it is a flower. And you, its only seed."

He wears his zit of a penis on his bio. Eww...

Doyel is a joke.

He's like Zip, only with a job.

Just kidding Zip.

Good comparison.

Anybody see the final numbers on Amir's deal (how it breaks down by year)?

I'm trying to update my handy little luxury tax doomsday clock chart and I can't find a concrete # anywhere.

If you are allowed 10.5% raises when you use the EBE, then I am guessing that this is the deal:

2007/08 - $3.3m
2008/09 - $3.6465m
2009/10 - $4.0294m

That's 10.976m over 3 years

check this out...

http://sportsline.com/columns/story/10257542

did you really read the article? i dont know how you could have. talk about someone's point completely flying over you.

i dont even know what to tell you here.

good luck?

in case you missed it:


Send a message to the Yankees or Magic or Colts or Indians or any of the other out-of-touch franchises: The everyday families who fund those franchises are struggling to buy homes and send kids to college and fill up their gas tank on a weekly basis, and we simply will not tolerate any more Monopoly contracts.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2007summerleague009.asp


(4-1) Detroit Pistons 84 - (2-3) Los Angeles Lakers 81

The big story from this game was the play of Amir Johnson who had missed the Pistons previous 4 games. He had 17 points on 7-12 shooting and it's a shame we didn't get to see more of him, as he looks vastly improved. When he was drafted at the end of the 2nd round two years ago, he had no position and was just a freak athlete. Two years of working with NBA coaches and trainers has turned him into a tremendous looking prospect. He showed the ability to handle the ball, as well as make plays around the basket. Watch out for Johnson as an emerging player in the next few seasons.

did you really read the article? i dont know how you could have. talk about someone's point completely flying over you.

i dont even know what to tell you here.

good luck?

Does this ass clown realize that Amir is getting roughly what high first round draft picks make and they haven't played ANY NBA games? What a retard!!!

Does this ass clown realize that Amir is getting roughly what high first round draft picks make and they haven't played ANY NBA games? What a retard!!!

First round NBA picks have a hard ceiling, or both Oden and Duarrant would have scored near-max deals.

Does this ass clown realize that Amir is getting roughly what high first round draft picks make and they haven't played ANY NBA games? What a retard!!!

the article wasnt about the finer points of the nba collective bargaining agreement. the article was clearly about the ridiculousness of sports economics in relation to the reality of today's middle class.

so regardless of how reasonable amir's K might be in the context of the nba, its also good fodder for a sports writer with a bone to pick.

First round NBA picks have a hard ceiling, or both Oden and Duarrant would have scored near-max deals.

I know that they have a hard ceiling but even with the CBA they will make around 11 mil over three years.

the article wasnt about the finer points of the nba collective bargaining agreement. the article was clearly about the ridiculousness of sports economics in relation to the reality of today's middle class.

so regardless of how reasonable amir's K might be in the context of the nba, its also good fodder for a sports writer with a bone to pick.

I understand the authors point (and agree with it) but his example of calling Joe Dumars an idiot for making a wise business decision is where teh author comes off as a retard. He could have at least looked for a better example that actually make sense. What about LA signing Beckham???? A-Rod making 35+ mil next season when he hasn't won shit???

I know that they have a hard ceiling but even with the CBA they will make around 11 mil over three years.

The hard ceiling is in the CBA. If not for that cap they would earn a LOT more than the 3 years 11 million that Amir got, meaning that comparing the contracts is pointless

The hard ceiling is in the CBA. If not for that cap they would earn a LOT more than the 3 years 11 million that Amir got, meaning that comparing the contracts is pointless

You're totally missing my point. The author was complaining that Amir was making 11 mil after playing just a few NBA games. I pointed out that high draft picks make that much without playing ANY games. This has to do with his bad example and not the CBA.

I understand completely the "number of games" thing.

If you are allowed 10.5% raises when you use the EBE, then I am guessing that this is the deal:

2007/08 - $3.3m
2008/09 - $3.6465m
2009/10 - $4.0294m

That's 10.976m over 3 years

Storytellers updated Amir's salary/contract, here is what they have:

Amir Johnson
2007/08 - 3,318,250
2008/09 - 3,666,667
2009/10 - 4,015,083
Signed using: Early Bird Rights
Notes:
-BYC until 7/1/08 (Counts as $1,659,125 for trade purposes (BYC player))
-Signed 7/12/07 for an assumed $11,000,000 for 3 years

I'm hoping we view the 2nd and 3rd as a cheap for how good he's playing.

Kind of a boring day, so here's some Amir cornbread.

I can't wait to see this guy get some serious PT (Flip willing).

bRTzraBWlUE

Amir masturbates a lot.