Based on the available players at the time, who would you have selected at #15, #27 and #57?

Mine:

#15 Nick Young

#27 Gabe Pruitt

#57 Zabian Dowdell (why wasn't he drafted?), Joao Gomes (EuroStash) or Kyle Visser

I know I would have been a lot happier this morning than I am now.

Im taking Visser for sure with the 57. Same as Glenn.

YOung
Splitter
A new chick to hand out jerseys to the Bud Light Zone. They one they got to replace Erin is a bit chunky.

I like the Stuckey pick...Afflalo should've been a 2nd rounder, but I'd rather have him than Gabe Pruitt (who was for sure a 2nd rounder), I wish Morris Almond would've slipped to us...

I wonder had New Orleans selected Nick Young, if we would've gotten Julian Wright....


Sammy Mejia??? Does he have a shot in hell making the team???

I think Joe's promise to Stuckey tied his hands when it came to Nick Young.

Yeah, I think he promised Stuckey even though he denies it. Smoke.

I think Joe's promise to Stuckey tied his hands when it came to Nick Young.

Yeah, I think he promised Stuckey even though he denies it. Smoke.

I don't think he would have promised Stuckey if there was a chance in hell he would have taken Young over him. He knew damn well both would most likely be available. If he made the promise, it means he wanted Stuckey more than Young or Throton or the other young or other guys. Its not like RS was on the fence about returning so Joe felt pressured to play that card.

You make a good point, and I considered that.

I just find it odd that word got out that he had promised Stuckey at #15, the Pistons denied it, and they ended up taking him there anyways with a player available at the same basic position that most had rated higher (Young).

Maybe it was just a coincidence.

They would have promised Stuckey to 1st round if they were smart, that way if someone slipped they could take him and still maintain their promise to Stuckey. I like the pick of Stuckey, I just question where Affalo will play.

Joe said he heard all night that Stuckey was going to LA ahead of him (damn, that's what I predicted). He said Nick Young and Thad Young were plan B.

When doing this, you have to assess only that pick. If I had known Pruitt would be there, I would have taken one of the Youngs. I didn't know that at the time, so I like the Stuckey pick. At #27, I would have taken Tucker I think. I would have definately used 57 on a big man. We should definately bring Visser in for a try out.

I posted this as sort of a hypothetical in another thread -- seems about right:

#15 Stuckey
#27 Byars
#57 Visser

The problem with our draft isn't with any one player, but the combined effect. We overreached a little for three guys whose primary position is SG, when we have an All-Star SG on our team and an All-Euro SG in the wings, and crying needs for a backup bigger SF (unless Maxiell and|or Amir can do this), a true backup C, etc.

You know, with the Lions I usually get excited about a "sexy" draft, which ends up being really crappy later on (see Charles Rogers, etc.). It's drafts that I hate that end up working out better (see Ernie Sims, though not great, much better than Rogers).
I wonder if the same thing can be said for the Pistons. I don't remember being extremely excited about the Tayshaun pick, but it was justifiable. Stuckey is justifiable. I was excited about Darko because I bought the hype. I was excited about Delfino as a value pick. Maxiell was a justifiable pick, IMO.
I also seem to remember people really questioning the trade the brought Rip, the signing of Chauncey instead of McInnis, the Hill for Ben and Chucky trade, risking health/chemistry with Sheed, Dice and CWebb.

I'm not guaranteeing success with these picks, but at this point our expectations are pretty dang low with these guys. I'm just leaving the door open that we might be pleasantly surprised. I have no idea who is going to rebound all their missed shots, but I guess that's beside the point.

You know, with the Lions I usually get excited about a "sexy" draft, which ends up being really crappy later on (see Charles Rogers, etc.). It's drafts that I hate that end up working out better (see Ernie Sims, though not great, much better than Rogers).
I wonder if the same thing can be said for the Pistons. I don't remember being extremely excited about the Tayshaun pick, but it was justifiable. Stuckey is justifiable. I was excited about Darko because I bought the hype. I was excited about Delfino as a value pick. Maxiell was a justifiable pick, IMO.
I also seem to remember people really questioning the trade the brought Rip, the signing of Chauncey instead of McInnis, the Hill for Ben and Chucky trade, risking health/chemistry with Sheed, Dice and CWebb.

I'm not guaranteeing success with these picks, but at this point our expectations are pretty dang low with these guys. I'm just leaving the door open that we might be pleasantly surprised. I have no idea who is going to rebound all their missed shots, but I guess that's beside the point.


Great post. I was posting way back when Tayshaun was drafted and can tell you the overwhelming sentiment was negative. I also know that when we drafted Rodney White and Darko the overwhelming sentiment was positive. When we drafted Okur we all said "Who?"

I'd rather be disappointed now and pleased later than the reverse.

yea, i wasnt around for the white draft, but i think everyone was willing to completely overlook his lack of production till we got j-bar for him (now that was landing on your feet. stuckey for darko. uhh...). so obviously, we're not always right.

when we drafted prince over frank williams, i though frank made more sense, but since prince was actually one of the few guys i had seen play in college, i wasnt upset.

and im not mad at stuckey. ive read mixed opinions, but he sounds like 15 is where he belonged.

i am mad about aflalo though. i definitly saw him enough in college, and i always had him pegged under "no way would i draft that guy". and we did. in the first round. ughh. and it bothers me because i think tucker made more sense. even drafting a big stiff project like gray made more sense, imo.

how often can aflalo guard a sf? i wouldnt think regularly. so there really isnt much pt for him anyway, unless were only planing on giving stuckey 10-15 mpg.

We got Barry (and a 1st!) for Cleaves, not White.

uh oh. -1 for me.

we got the denver pick for white?

We got Don Reid, Mengke Bateer, and a future first round pick from Denver for Rodney White. (Not sure what the first round pick ended up being).

I wanted Joe Johnson, not White. And if you don't believe me go back on TOS and find it. I never liked the White pick. i thought he was big dog part 2 at best. Oh well.

Still a great point. I wasn't big on Tay when we got him (I think I wanted Frank Williams or Dickeau, can't remember which). That worked out well.

I wanted Joe Johnson, not White. And if you don't believe me go back on TOS and find it. I never liked the White pick. i thought he was big dog part 2 at best. Oh well.

Still a great point. I wasn't big on Tay when we got him (I think I wanted Frank Williams or Dickeau, can't remember which). That worked out well.

Most of the board was humping Frank Williams leg back then . . . .

We got Don Reid, Mengke Bateer, and a future first round pick from Denver for Rodney White. (Not sure what the first round pick ended up being).


(2004 #17-Josh Smith)

Gulp.

(2004 #17-Josh Smith)

Gulp.

Was that sent as part of the Rasheed deal?

I guess it begs the question: What type of production would the Pistons need to get out of these picks in order for people to change their tune?

Just to be clear, I'm not being an apologist for Dumars or any of these players, just trying to set the bar for judgement on the draft.

I'm thinking if one of them becomes a player that stays with the team for 5-7 seasons minimum and has at least one season of 12 ppg, I'll be satisfied. I'm not sure it's fair to expect any will ever become starters, since we probably expect Chauncey and Rip to be here for another 5 years or so, and that's a long time to expect a guy to just sit in the wings and wait, then emerge and start. But I'm talking about a guy that might get some votes for 6th man of the year by season 4, perhaps.

I don't remember who I wanted when we got Rodney White, but I know he was still on the board and I was pissed. I'll have to go look that up.

There is no player in the entire draft that I wanted less than Nick Young.

He's one of the worst ballhandler I've ever seen, for the amount of talent that he has.

I want no part of a guard that gets 2 turnovers per assist.

Was that sent as part of the Rasheed deal?

Yes.

I think Afflalo was attained for one purpose. To push Stuckey's defense, and to push Rips defense. Our problem in the playoffs was the matador defense from both of our guards. I think that Joe wants legit pressure to make his guys play harder. Especially Stuckey. What move to motivate him better than the thought of losing his minutes to someone who was drafted 12 picks below you. I hope that Afflalo doesn't play much, but does motivate the 3 players ahead of him in the rotation to work harder.

BTW- watching tiago splitter out there.....i know he has a huge buyout and probably won't play in the nba for at least 1 more year. but why the hell didn't we take him over afflalo? seems the rich get richer as he belongs to the spurs....

afflalo had damn well better become a very good player for us. because splitter looks like a very solid big man who at the least could have been a serviceable bench player for 15-20 minutes a night in 2008 or 2009. he has work to do to improve his ball skills around the hoop but he's pretty athletic, solid defensively, and has a good skillset to work with.

i'd take him over AA right now.

(edit - moved from the team USA thread) - WTFchris

BTW- watching tiago splitter out there.....i know he has a huge buyout and probably won't play in the nba for at least 1 more year. but why the hell didn't we take him over afflalo? seems the rich get richer as he belongs to the spurs....

afflalo had damn well better become a very good player for us. because splitter looks like a very solid big man who at the least could have been a serviceable bench player for 15-20 minutes a night in 2008 or 2009. he has work to do to improve his ball skills around the hoop but he's pretty athletic, solid defensively, and has a good skillset to work with.

i'd take him over AA right now.

I've been a huge Splitter fan for a couple of years now. He's one of the best forwards on a pretty good frontline in Vitoria. He almost always plays well in one of the top leagues in Europe and does well in Euroleague competition. As big man projects go, he's about as low risk as it gets.

I don't think it would have hurt us at all to take him and let him sit overseas for a year. Afflalo isn't going to do a whole lot for us this year anyway. We could have easily signed someone to play his role, or used Mejia and Murray if we don't trade him. Afflalo may turn into something good but nothing special that we really needed to jump at.

I wasn't big on drafting another PF (Splitter), but I'd rather have him than two SG's in the first round. At least you can move a solid big man. I would have taken one of the centers there. Can't remember who was available off hand, but a big man project would have been better than a backup SG that won't play unless RIP gets hurt (or lit up by a particular player).

The problem is there wasn't anything decent at C sitting there waiting. All that was left was mid-2nd rounder types that were taken too high even in the early 2nd. I agree with not taking any of them, but I'd liked to have seen us grab a PF that could eventually play some C like Splitter, or a SF to backup Tay. Afflalo isn't a horrid pick by any means, but I think we could have done better.

I wanted Pruitt or the PG from Finland, but if Joe felt Stucky had solid PG skills I don't have a problem with passing on them.

I would rather take a chance on Fesenko, Fasekus or Gasol. You might find a decent center there down the road. If not, oh well, you had an extra pick. If you felt that they weren't worth first round money, then trade the pick for one next year (i'm sure someone wanted one). Then you'd know how Stuckey worked out, whether Webber came back, if Amir/Max can produce). Afflalo to me has a low cieling. He might be a solid 8-10th man, but you can sign those just about every year. Guys like Posey and similar players are always out there.

Afflalo will be a defensive specialist at most. I wouldn't have minded that Finnish PG, even with Stuckey. Leave him overseas for another year and see how Stuckey does. Fazekas was another PF so I didn't count him, but I would have loved to see us take him also. He was the guy I was banking on with our second 1st rounder. I also really liked Fesenko but I forgot about him. Other than that the options were Gray, Gasol, and Stanko. None of them were really 1st round material. Had we traded down I'd have been ok with them, but not where we were at.

If you think about it, it is kind of like we drafted a late 1st, early 2nd round C though in bringing Samb over. And same with Amir finally being given some PT, its like bringing in an early 1st PF. I'm just hoping we can give Amir a bit of run at C when we're trying to go quick/athletic. Obviously that wouldn't be for long stretches though.

I don't have a problem with getting a defensive stopper on the wing to take pressure off Tay, but I can't see Afflalo defending PP, TMac, Lebron, Kobe and so forth. The scoring wings are all around 6'8" now and why not actually draft a true defensive wing player? Trade down, get McGuire (I think he was billed as a very good defender). He had 10 boards and 4 blocks a game as a SF. I think Joe bailed himself out with the Hayes signing, but it's only a year.

Or even DJ Strawberry with the 57 to guard quicker guards like Deron Williams or Tony Parker.

or the guy the suns drafted a slot later... who i think would have had an excellent rookie year had they not picked up hill.

You mean Tucker? He'd still be a 6'5" guy guarding 6'8" guys. And he's not scouted as a very good defender.

I'm still struggling to understand the angst towards the Afflalo pick. Our starting backcourt missed around 20 games last season due to injury and they aren't getting any younger. I personally didn't like being subjected to watching games where Flip Murray and Carlos Delfino were playing big minutes in the absence of Billups or Hamilton. Our guard depth was brutal and has been for a long time.

When Delfino was traded prior to the draft it left an even larger gap in our backcourt. Forget about the 3 position, we needed guys that could play the 1 and especially the 2 since Flip Murray obviously isn't the answer. Dumars attempted to take care of this in the draft.

Now do I like that this team is relying on 2 first year players when they think they are still championship quality...no....but I understand why he drafted the way he drafted in the first round. Plus after Morris Almond was drafted, whom I believe Dumars wanted, Afflalo was the next best 2 on the board.

Afflalo is not going to be great but he's going to be a solid NBA guard. He works hard, wants to defend, will be a competent shooter as he was in college, was pac-10 player of the year and was the best player on a team that made the final 4 two years in row. That's not a bad resume. I'm excited to see what this kid can do.

Indeed. We've been bitching about a backup PG forever and the failure of Delfino certainly requires a new backup 2. I like filling holes better then Project Big Man #842.

I'm still struggling to understand the angst towards the Afflalo pick. Our starting backcourt missed around 20 games last season due to injury and they aren't getting any younger. I personally didn't like being subjected to watching games where Flip Murray and Carlos Delfino were playing big minutes in the absence of Billups or Hamilton. Our guard depth was brutal and has been for a long time.

When Delfino was traded prior to the draft it left an even larger gap in our backcourt. Forget about the 3 position, we needed guys that could play the 1 and especially the 2 since Flip Murray obviously isn't the answer. Dumars attempted to take care of this in the draft.

Now do I like that this team is relying on 2 first year players when they think they are still championship quality...no....but I understand why he drafted the way he drafted in the first round. Plus after Morris Almond was drafted, whom I believe Dumars wanted, Afflalo was the next best 2 on the board.

Afflalo is not going to be great but he's going to be a solid NBA guard. He works hard, wants to defend, will be a competent shooter as he was in college, was pac-10 player of the year and was the best player on a team that made the final 4 two years in row. That's not a bad resume. I'm excited to see what this kid can do.

The problem is simply that they feel Afflalo can backup Tay as well, and there is no way he can defend most of the 6'8" SF's in this league. Delfino couldn't even do that and he's bigger than Afflalo. I also doubt he's quick enough to guard PG's like Parker, which was our other need off the bench. So what is his role? Clearly we got Stuckey planning on backing up RIP and Billups. You don't spend a lotto pick (well, almost a lotto pick) on a 15 MPG backup PG. So, either Afflalo sits most of the time or you don't get value out of Stuckey. Somebody has to be able to defend the Lebrons of the NBA or Tay will simply be worn down again. I just don't understand why we didn't adress that. Hayes is a scorer, not a defensive role player either. I think we'll be better off because Tay won't have to play as much when he's not facing Lebron, Tmac, Kobe, etc...but we still should have used that pick on a wing defender that can guard both positions.

Points well taken but I'm not sure the lebron stopper was available at #27 in the draft. I'm not sure there is such a thing as a lebron stopper. And no one is quick enough to defend the tony parkers and steve nashes of the league.

But I think the pistons are correct that Afflalo may be able to step in and defend the 3 and the 1 at times. For every Lebron and Tony parker in this league you also have the Ruben Pattersons (same height at Afflalo and considered a defensive stopper) and Eric Snows or guys that Afflalo will handle with ease especially since he'll primarily be matched up against non-starters. (I liked that story about Afflalo wanting to guard Louis Williams in crunch time this summer when he was torching the pistons, primarily stuckey. He held him in check and the team won the game. Afflalo isn't afraid to fail. He'll also hit the occasional jump shot.)

And we really don't know if either of the new guys can hold water in this league. Afflalo and Stuckey may both turn out to be busts. At least this team has 2 shots at getting it right.

Afflalo's role will be a guy that at times will be able to give rest to either Tayshaun, Rip or Chauncey. This will hopefully lower the minutes for each in ways that keeps them fresh, especially tayshaun, when they absolutely must play 40 minutes against the Lebrons and d-wades of the world come playoff time. Having a Jarvis Hayes around doesn't hurt either to help take away minutes from Prince during the regular season. We're not going to need Jarvis Hayes to be a defensive stopper all year but rather a guy that makes shots. Not every team has a Paul Pierce. Some have Jared Jefferies.

At least now the pistons have options something they haven't had in a long time.

But then again we have a retarded coach who will still play his starters 40+ a night.

if AA can come in and be a good defender against anyone, even if its only undersized 2's, i'll consider it a good pick at #27, even being redundant. my problem is it is redundant and also i dont think he'll be good defensively against anyone. and besides, when has flip ever played someone for their defense?

The problem is simply that they feel Afflalo can backup Tay as well, and there is no way he can defend most of the 6'8" SF's in this league. Delfino couldn't even do that and he's bigger than Afflalo.
It's not just height, it's build. Ruben Patterson isn't taller than Afflalo, but he would've been near-ideal (apart from character issues) -- a tough, different look off the bench who BronBron and Kobe won't just laugh at. Hell, as a first and second year player, he'll get abused even when he does play good D (much as Delfino did).

It's not just height, it's build. Ruben Patterson isn't taller than Afflalo, but he would've been near-ideal (apart from character issues) -- a tough, different look off the bench who BronBron and Kobe won't just laugh at. Hell, as a first and second year player, he'll get abused even when he does play good D (much as Delfino did).

Reuben Patterson:self-proclaimed Kobe stopper.

I actually like AA as a player, I'm just not sure he'll be used here much. As b-diddy said, what are the chances Flip actually plays him just for his defense? Stuckey is going to eat up almost all the 25 minutes of backup guard play (assuming he's not a bust, which I assume he's not). Obviously they fetlt they still needed a SF because they drafted one and signed one. So Joe couldn't have felt AA was going to backup Tay that much. To me, he's just going to be the Tyronne Lue role (before he got overrated and counted on full time) where you bring him in once and a while to play 10 minutes against certain players. That's fine, you need guys like that. But in the first round of the draft?

I wasn't looking for someone to shut down Lebron. but it's been clear the last 2 years that we don't have anybody that Flip is confident enough in to actually sit Tay down for much time. I was hoping for a player that could buy him 15 minutes of rest and not force RIP to guard Lebron/etc like Murray does.

You don't skip on getting good players because your coach is an idiot.

You fire the coach.

BTW, I'm going to fix this thread and split off the AA stuff. It has nothing to do with team USA.