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View Full Version : One Big Mess in Texas sting op. Because of which, 24 caught pedophiles will go free.



Black Dynamite
06-28-2007, 04:17 PM
Texas Town Roiled by NBC Sting
By GRANT SLATER, Associated Press Writer

2 hours ago

MURPHY, Texas - A sting in which police teamed up with "Dateline NBC" to catch online pedophiles was supposed to send a flinty-eyed, Texas-style warning about this Dallas suburb: Don't mess with Murphy.

Instead, it has turned into a fiasco.

One of the 25 men caught in the sting _ a prosecutor from a neighboring county _ committed suicide when police came to arrest him. The Murphy city manager who approved the operation lost his job in the ensuing furor.

And the district attorney is refusing to prosecute any of the men, saying many of the cases were tainted by the involvement of amateurs.

"Certainly these people should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but the fact that this was all done for television cameras raises some questions~what questions you fvckhead~," said Mayor Bret Baldwin.

It is the first time in nine "Dateline NBC: To Catch a Predator" stings across the country in the past year and a half that prosecutors did not pursue charges.

"Dateline" has made prime-time entertainment out of contacting would-be child molesters over the Internet, luring them to a meeting place, and videotaping their humiliating confrontations with reporter Chris Hansen.

"Dateline" works with an activist group called Perverted Justice, which supplies adults who troll Internet chat rooms, posing as underage boys and girls, and try to collect incriminating sex talk.

City manager Craig Sherwood approved such an operation in this well-to-do community of 11,000 after being approached by "Dateline" and Perverted Justice, but he never informed the mayor or the City Council. He said secrecy was necessary for the sting to be effective.

Over four days in November, 24 men were arrested at a two-story home in one of Murphy's newer neighborhoods after allegedly arranging to meet boys or girls there.

Some other suspects contacted Perverted Justice decoys online but never showed up at the house. Among them was Louis Conradt Jr., an assistant prosecutor from neighboring Kauffman County, who allegedly engaged in a sexually explicit online chat with an adult posing as a 13-year-old boy.

As police knocked at his door and a "Dateline" camera crew waited in the street, Conradt shot himself.

His sister, Patricia Conradt, told the City Council that police acted as "a judge, jury and executioner that was encouraged by an out-of-control reality show."

Then, last month, Collin County District Attorney John Roach dropped all charges. He said that in 16 of the cases, he had no jurisdiction, since neither the suspects nor the decoys were in the county during the online chats.

As for the rest of the cases, he said neither police nor NBC could guarantee the chat logs were authentic and complete.

"The fact that somebody besides police officers were involved is what makes this case bad," said Roach, who was informed of the sting in advance but did not participate. "If professionals had been running the show, they would have done a much better job rather than being at the beck and call of outsiders."

As details of the suicide emerged, Murphy's mayor, City Council and most of its residents learned for the first time that potential molesters were being luring to their city. Many were furious.

"They can chase predators all they want, but they shouldn't do it in a populated area with children, two blocks from an elementary school," said Lisa Watson, 33, who lives down the road from the sting house and has three children and another on the way.

Bryan Whorton, who lives with his wife and baby across the street from the house, said his neighborhood was put in danger. Cars sped up and down the street and police sprinted from hiding spots, guns drawn, to arrest suspects, he said. One suspect dropped a bag of crack, Whorton said.

"This is a family community. It didn't look kosher at all," he said.

Two weeks ago, the City Council voted to buy out the city manager's contract for $255,000.

NBC's Hansen said Murphy is the only place the show has encountered such resistance.

"I don't want to get involved in the DA's business or the police business," he said. "I can tell you in the other locations, these issues did not come up."

Eric Nichols, a Texas deputy attorney general, said that when law enforcement authorities pull an Internet sex sting, officers posing as decoys follow strict rules. Detailed chat logs are kept to ensure that "sex talk" is initiated by the potential predator. That way, a defendant cannot claim entrapment.

Eric Chase, a defense attorney specializing in sex crimes, said stings are the job of police, not TV crews. "Police should not be abdicating a very important function to either private organizations or entertainment organizations," he said.

am I the only one who has no problem with what they did in this sting Operation? :confused: They are catching alot of flack for it. Also fvck that Lawyer's sister who blames the cops for his suicide. That was guilt.

b-diddy
06-28-2007, 04:29 PM
the concerns would involve tainting the jury pool. a juror who saw this program should be ineligible.

and as wrong as pedophilia is, im against these programs. something an american about it.

Tahoe
06-28-2007, 04:32 PM
I'd rather have these fuckheads go to jail than Paris Hilton. j/k...kind of.

Black Dynamite
06-28-2007, 04:34 PM
I'd rather have these fuckheads go to jail than Paris Hilton. j/k...kind of.
Paris has herpes, punishment enough. These fucks need some quite time in the prison showers.

Hermy
06-28-2007, 04:35 PM
I think we need a show where people lure the mentally retarded around a maze with a piece of cheese and whoever completes the race gets cash and prizes. Afterall who doesn't want to help feed the retarded?

Uncle Mxy
06-29-2007, 08:55 AM
It's not just the chain-of-evidence problem (a biggie in and of itself with the state of the relevant technology). Here's the law Perverted Justice appears to violate every time they don't coordinate with authorities at the get-go and at all stages of the process:

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/prostitution_fedefforts.html


Eighteen United States Code, section 2422 applies to defendants who coerce or entice either adults or minors to engage in illegal sexual activity:

(a) Whoever knowingly persuades, induces, entices or coerces any individual to travel in interstate or foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United States, to engage in prostitution or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both,

Thus far, no one's really charged them with that, because no politician wants to be slapped with a "pro-pedophile" label. But if enough mistakes happen -- on-camera suicides ranking up there -- it gets ugly real fast. If it's true that NBC is actually paying Perverted Justice (as a lawsuit by their former producer alleges), I could see them being guilty of the above as well.

Zip Goshboots
06-29-2007, 09:31 AM
It's just like Texans--blaming someone else for your fucked up mess. Hell, it got one of them elected president, so it must work.
I love when people say something like this: "This is s GOOD town, with GOOD hard working people, it's a good place to raise a family"
Translation: How much further away from black people can we possibly move so our daughters won't marry one? And now THIS happens!

Big Swami
06-29-2007, 10:24 AM
Zip hits it out of the park. Those people tried so hard, and went so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter. THEY'RE ABOUT TO BRAEK!!!11

WTFchris
06-29-2007, 01:03 PM
It's not just the chain-of-evidence problem (a biggie in and of itself with the state of the relevant technology). Here's the law Perverted Justice appears to violate every time they don't coordinate with authorities at the get-go and at all stages of the process:

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/prostitution_fedefforts.html


Eighteen United States Code, section 2422 applies to defendants who coerce or entice either adults or minors to engage in illegal sexual activity:

(a) Whoever knowingly persuades, induces, entices or coerces any individual to travel in interstate or foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United States, to engage in prostitution or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both,


Thus far, no one's really charged them with that, because no politician wants to be slapped with a "pro-pedophile" label. But if enough mistakes happen -- on-camera suicides ranking up there -- it gets ugly real fast. If it's true that NBC is actually paying Perverted Justice (as a lawsuit by their former producer alleges), I could see them being guilty of the above as well.

Except that no acts are actually committed in those stings. They don't charge them with statitory rape (which would be actually having sex with a minor). They arrest them for propositioning a minor. Maybe that still falls under sexual activity, I don't know.

Also, maybe they are careful to avoid "persuades, induces, entices or coerces" when they are chatting. I think the predator does that.

Uncle Mxy
06-29-2007, 09:20 PM
The knowing enticement alone is against the law, and they can't readily claim plausible deniability when they're facilitating a place (a "substantial step" in legal terms) to snag folks that they know by their past actions to be repeat criminal offenders. It may or may not be good law, but you'd have to contort things pretty badly to not find them in violation of it. Keep in mind that in some states, a pedophile talking in a chat room is enough for a crime to be committed, even if the act of meeting up never ever takes place. Thus, the standard for the enticer can be equally low by definition. Yin, meet yang.

I'd prefer to see the function of getting the bad guys done under the full auspices of the law, not some vigilante group in cahoots with the media. I'd prefer to see the media lean on law enforcement to do better and put these folks out of the business with competency, rather than turn it into trainwreck TV. The media could do an even bigger favor by focusing on oversexualized youth and the damage that fucked-up messages about sexuality causes. Oh wait... they happen to be among the biggest profiteers from such activities.

Most people would prefer that a home in their neighborhood not be used to attract a steady stream of pedophiles for a media event.

UxKa
06-29-2007, 11:28 PM
I support the show and everything it does against pedophiles. When I started dating my gf she was 19 and had this guy bugging her online since she was 16 or 17. He wanted to photograph her n stuff. I confronted him online a couple times and he let off. Then one day he saw me on his recent buddy list and thought I was some underage girl. I told him I was the guy that told him to fuck off. He was all 'big talk for a man behind a keyboard' so a day or two later I emailed him his address, place of work, picture of his house, type/model/color/plate of car driven and his home and work phone numbers. He stopped after that, but I know someone who is a part of a similar group of predator stings around here and sent them the info. Oh yeah, from my mom's yearbook I emailed him a pic of himself in 10th grade. I thought that was pretty funny. Well thats my story.

Uncle Mxy
06-30-2007, 09:36 AM
The age of consent is 16 in two-thirds of U.S. states, including Michigan. 17 bumps it to over 80%, including Illinois. So, my hunch is you're not talking about a pedophile activity in a legal sense, "just" an online stalker (which can be quite bad enough, having dealt with first-person experiences). Legally, the difference between the two is pretty vast. 15 gets you 20, but 16 gets you a stern warning.

The problem is that the cops and legal system just haven't caught up with the technology. It's 2007, and a teacher in an educated state recently was tried and convicted for having spyware porn popups (on a poorly-managed computer and network that she'd never used until that day). Our elected officials say dopey stuff like "an internet was sent by my staff", "an internet" being this blazingly new technology called email. Stories like this abound, and such stupidity levels don't inspire network-attuned people to call the cops in the face of abusive computer activity. That shit has to change. To the extent that the media and quasi-legal organizations cloud that issue, I'm not a big fan. Master the fucking frontier, don't glamorize it.

Black Dynamite
06-30-2007, 10:31 AM
The age of consent is 16
serious flaw imo. I think if the guy is 30, it should be different set of rules and a higher age of consent.

I understand 18 year old partner to 16 year old. but i dont think it should be across the boArd.

Zip Goshboots
06-30-2007, 10:54 AM
serious flaw imo. I think if the guy is 30, it should be different set of rules and a higher age of consent.

I understand 18 year old partner to 16 year old. but i dont think it should be across the boArd.

That's not a flaw, it's a bit of a concession to the reality that sixteen year olds are fucking as much as, if not more than, most thirty year olds. Using some sort of "graduated" age of consent thing would only broaden prosecution and put more people in jail, such as some thirty year old guy who might have met a chick at a bar who got in with a fake ID.
How about personal responsibility and all that sort of thing. You know, I buy my kids computers and cell phones and X-Box 360 and their own TV for their bedroom so I don;t have to talk to them, and WOW! Some pervert on the internet seizes an opportunity.

Black Dynamite
06-30-2007, 11:24 AM
That's not a flaw, it's a bit of a concession to the reality that sixteen year olds are fucking as much as, if not more than, most thirty year olds. Using some sort of "graduated" age of consent thing would only broaden prosecution and put more people in jail, such as some thirty year old guy who might have met a chick at a bar who got in with a fake ID.
That was irrelevant as fuck. A chick in the bar with a fake ID could be 14. So what was your point?

I never held it as a "graduated" age of consent. Thats notion is your idea of it. so argue that with yourself. I see it as a serious and obvious discrepancy and irresponsible abuse of a consent law that imo wasnt meant for 30+ year olds.

The "16 year old is fucking too" excuse is just as bad as the 14 year old was a slut before R. kelly pissed on her excuse.

Zip Goshboots
06-30-2007, 12:10 PM
If it's not a graduated idea of consent, then what is it? That a thirty year old shouldn;t be allowed to have sex with someone under the age of 18, but an 18 year old can? Sounds like a sliding, or graduated scale to me.

I'm not making excuses, either. I can;t see why a man in his thirties would even find a teenager to be desirable, let alone want to have sex with one. But I think the law has determined that sixteen is an age where people are considered to be able to make that decision on their own (and they always have, and always will), and I agree with it.

UxKa
06-30-2007, 03:04 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Age_of_Consent.png

Uncle Mxy
06-30-2007, 05:30 PM
Cool map, UxKa! Here's the simplified chart I used when I eyeballed the stuff I listed above:

http://www.coolnurse.com/consent.htm

The only value judgement I'll make about age of consent laws is that they ought to be consistent and simple to apply. Read the complicated Wikipedia entry on consent laws in the U.S. states if you like making your head hurt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#United_States