Boykins?

Oberto?

Hill?

Mo Pete?

Mo Williams/Gerald Wallace? (S&T needed)

Nobody?

It's almost official that the SPurs will resign Oberto.

I wonder what team Gerald Wallace will go to, probably a team that needs a starting 2 or 3. I don't think he'd take alot of money and be the backup for Richard Hamilton and Tay.

I would think Boykins will ask for alot and I hope he doesnt come to us for the full MLE.

I think a realistic option would be one of the swingmen from GS, Pietrus or Barnes. Pietrus will probably take the full MLE frmo the Raps, and he def isn't worth the full MLE.

Hill and Mopete are players I'd give half the MLE to. Word is the Spurs are also interested in both.

Yeah, I should have listed Barnes, I started a damn thread about him, lol

The initial list was more or less an attempt to stimulate conversation, so thanks for playing, Cross.

Where did you see that Oberto was a lock to re-sign with SA?

There was talk that Gerald Wallace wanted a deal starting at around 8-10 mil. If you look at his numbers and age, that should be about right.

Mo Williams will be a huge target if we lose out on Chauncey (obviously) and as much as I'd like to get Boykins as a back-up, I think that our MLE could be better spent.

I'd love us to come away with Barnes or Hill. Both would be a great addition. Mo Pete is ok but I don't like him as much.

After a strong playoff run in which he was the team's most accurate shooter and its No. 3 rebounder, forward Fabricio Oberto informed the San Antonio Spurs on Monday he has decided to opt out of the final year of the three-year contract in which he made $2.5 million last season.

While there is certain to be interest in Oberto from other teams, both in the NBA and overseas, he wants to remain in San Antonio and Spurs' GM R.C. Buford said the team will do everything it can to make certain that happens.

I'm not sure if its good enough. Teams will probably make offers for the MLE but the Spurs will most likely match because Finley is staying. If any team offers more than the MLE..my god.

I'm not hip to the Spurs lux tax situation, but that might be a factor.

It would be in Detroit (even with a championship), but probably not most other places.

Assuming we kept CBill, then Hill or Wallace would be intriguing.
Wallace would be a nice fit in terms of youth and slashing ability. I don't think he will want to play backup for us after starting and averaging 18 ppg last year.

Hill is a much more low risk, short term, investment. Add in that his free throw shooting, passing, and jumper are significantly better. I would be as happy with him since he would be a minimal cap risk.

I am down on Earl for what he is going to cost. I think he would get exposed in the playoffs and will hurt our zone.

Our revised targets should be:
Guards: Steve Blake, Jason Hart, Mo Pete, Eddie Jones, Charlie Bell, Pargo

SF: Hill, G. Wallace, Barnes, Pietrus, Des Mason, L. Walton

PF/C: Oberto, PJ Brown, Webber, Dice

As you can see, there just isn't much in the big men category, although I would rather have PJ Brown that Webber for sure. At least he can make his free throws.

Depending on who we draft, my most interest among these guards would be Charlie Bell who can fill both guard spots, and really can bring offense and defense. The Bucks will be looking to sign Mo Williams early, and he might be available. He is a solid player and is entering his prime at 28.

Many decent backup SFs are available, and I would be happy with any of those guys, as long as its cheap. Barnes seems like he could have a good upside for a cheap deal.

Can't wait till Friday, that's all I know.

Jalen?

Wasn't GS interested in Nazr at one point? We could do a S&T, Nazr for Barnes.

Mreh... I am down on Jalen, but only because I think he sucks.

Mick, I don't know if they were, but I certainly wouldn't pay that much for a backup SF. In a package maybe, but to me Barnes is worth at an absolute max 3 mill starting. No matter what, we shouldn't overspend at the backup SF given the depth in the free agent/draft pool at that position.

In the end, we are going to significantly change our FA targets based on who we draft. Man I am getting impatient.

Mreh... I am down on Jalen, but only because I think he sucks.

His game may not be what it once was, but he can backup three positions and his attitude would be a nice addition. I don't think that guy has ever been complacent in his life.

He'd love playing for the Pistons, too, which is a plus, especially if CWebb goes away as most here want to see happen.

I guess I could live with it, but only if I never actually saw him play. Then again, maybe someone slipped some wolverine kool aid in your red stripe.

we dont have $$ to be adding gerald wallace or even charlie bell. besides, according to gutz, gerald wallace is no better than r. dupree.

if we get hill and / or keep webber, i suspect their deals will be around the vet min (~1.5 i believe). i cant believe we'll actually use the mle this year, since we used it last year on ben wallace + free throws. besides, we need room for the guys we draft who will actually be given time, hopefully.

b-diddy, I love the voice of realism, and I agree with you. Of that list I put up there, only half of those guys are really attainable to us on the cheap. You are right, I can't imagine that we will use the full MLE, but maybe partial depending on the contracts of billups, Amir, and Dice. 3 mill on one player might be possible, and minimum contracts for the rest. Of course this is if the roster stands as is, and Hunter, Dupree, Flip, or Nazr aren't moved (and in a move that gives us cap room or future cap room).

I'd like to see us get Bell. He's from around here, right? I can't remember where he went to school but I thought it was a local place. Problem is, he's going to be out of our price range, along with almost everyone else. If we're not going into the lux, we're not getting much. I'm just wishing we could get someone like Hill for the vets minimum, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I like Barnes, Mo Pete or Hill as a backup SF.

His game may not be what it once was, but he can backup three positions and his attitude would be a nice addition. I don't think that guy has ever been complacent in his life.

He'd love playing for the Pistons, too, which is a plus, especially if CWebb goes away as most here want to see happen.

During the Suns-Spurs series, wasn't Jalen doing commentary on TNT?

He'd love playing for the Pistons, too, which is a plus,
So, why did he go to Phoenix (littered with swingmen) versus Detroit (who had a crying need for one) when he had a chance? Did some Pistons boogeyman tell him he'd have to play defense?

That's a good point...and a spicy burn, to boot.

Jalen's chatting today on ESPN.com, just FYI
3:45pm
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=16373

Matt barnes is a streaky shooter, but i dont want him myself.

Jalen's chatting today on ESPN.com, just FYI
3:45pm
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=16373
Will the topic be soft serve ice cream and pillow defense?

Brevin Knight was just waived by Charlotte

say whaaat? Brevin would be a nice backup point.

Damn lets go get Brevin

ESPN reports that the Bobcats have waived Knight. Go get him Joe!

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=2921019

Joe drafted Stuckey to be the backup PG, and part-time SG. He said so himself.

Brevin ain't coming here. He's banged up as hell anyway.

Why are we forcing Stuckey into a PG role when he's clearly a SG? Sounds like the Acker situation all over again.

Why are we forcing Stuckey into a PG role when he's clearly a SG? Sounds like the Acker situation all over again.

I see it more as Dumars trying to make another Chauncey. Teaching a big 2 guard how to pass and run the point.

Joe said that Stuckey is a PG, but had to do most of the scoring last eyar for a bad team.

God I hope so.

I definitely think Stuckey will fill in a role similar to Billups as primary PG with some SG at times.

Who knows if we will even see Afflalo play.

What I want to know is who are your candidates at SF/C after Grant Hill.
Honestly, Luke Walton or James Posey would probably be my first targets after Hill. THe should come on the cheap, and the Lakers are already near the tax threshold. They are at least decent enough to be Tay's backup, and at the appropriate cost as well.

I do really like the idea of a bench nucleus of Hill, Dice, and Stuckey Buns. They would blend very well with any combo of starters.

What about Matt Carroll as a backup SF? He's not a good defender but the guy can shoot the lights out. I've always been a fan and I know I wouldn't mind seeing him come in here to be a big time scorer off the bench. He probably isn't going to command a whole lot of money either.

I don't want Matt Barnes, he played way above his head last year, plus he can't play a lick of defense...

I wouldn't mind a guy like Mo-Pete coming off the bench...he brings some energy, and can light it up from downtown...

Grant Hill seem's more likely though, and I wouldn't mind having him here either, legit scorer and a veteran personality...

Provided we sign either Mo-Pete or Hill...our bench is already better than last years...

What about Matt Carroll as a backup SF? He's not a good defender but the guy can shoot the lights out. I've always been a fan and I know I wouldn't mind seeing him come in here to be a big time scorer off the bench. He probably isn't going to command a whole lot of money either.


Carroll is overrated, he was the only capable longrange shooter on Charlotte, so his numbers are a little bit inflated...


let somebody else overpay him and watch him come back down to earth next year...a la boris diaw style

I only meant if we could get him cheap. I don't want to give him the full MLE or anything. Just giving him something like a 3 year, 8-9million deal. Something starting at 2.5ish for the first year with typical raises. If he was the only legit outside shooter on that team, wouldn't teams have to pay more attention to him floating around the 3pt line? And he shot somewhere above 40% on his 3s. I'm just saying we always talk about how we need more bench scoring, so why not take a chance on a young guy that's known for his scoring. He's also a great FT shooter. I think he'd fit in well.

No chance at Walton

I definitely think Stuckey will fill in a role similar to Billups as primary PG with some SG at times.

Who knows if we will even see Afflalo play.
I think Stuckey is meant to be PG Murray could not be, scoring in spurts and still being able to run this offense. Stuckey can pretty much dominate alot of PG's in this league if he shows the skills to run the offense. Big if.

Affalo will get time. How do you see him not getting time? he's basically whar Rip Hamilton was in 2004 with defense to boot. If he shows to be effective coming off screens, he'll see alot of time.

No chance at Walton
Thankfully, I think he's overrated.

I only meant if we could get him cheap. I don't want to give him the full MLE or anything. Just giving him something like a 3 year, 8-9million deal. Something starting at 2.5ish for the first year with typical raises. If he was the only legit outside shooter on that team, wouldn't teams have to pay more attention to him floating around the 3pt line? And he shot somewhere above 40% on his 3s. I'm just saying we always talk about how we need more bench scoring, so why not take a chance on a young guy that's known for his scoring. He's also a great FT shooter. I think he'd fit in well.
I dont think he'd fit well at all. We are trying to improve our perimeter defense on the bench along with the offense. Getting hill to play SF does that. Getting carroll makes it much worse on defense.

I like James Posey, his off and on the court attitude is a question though.

he's basically whar Rip Hamilton was in 2004 with defense to boot. If he shows to be effective coming off screens, he'll see alot of time.

except he's got 3 inches, a ton of speed, and a much more reliable jumper.

except he's got 3 inches, a ton of speed, and a much more reliable jumper.
I agree with Diddy.

I agree with Diddy.
If Duddy was referring to my Rip comparison. He took it too literally. Figures. Either way, He plays far better defense than Rip did at that point and has shown more range than Rip had back then(not as good/clutch a mid range shooter, but 46 percent aint no bum either). Either way they are in the same mold imo. And he is capable of providing us with another capable shooter off screens so that we dont have to lose that when Rip goes to the bench.

The Charlotte Bobcats face heavy competition in their effort to re-sign leading scorer Gerald Wallace.

The Bobcats were one of eight teams that contacted Wallace when the NBA's free agency period began at midnight Saturday. Dallas, Orlando, Milwaukee, Detroit, Miami, Portland and Golden State all made inquiries, a person close to Wallace said Sunday.

Contingency plan in case Chauncey bolts?

Or maybe some sort of S&T with Nazr, Flip Murray, Ronald Dupree, Alex Acker, and Lindsey Hunter?

If Chauncey bolts, Gerald doesn't really answer any of our problems imo.

Especially with all the swings we just drafted, although he would be good backing up Tay... I have no idea.

The plan is:

If Chauncey bolts, we're moving Tay to the point and trading all of our bench guys (Hunter, Nazr, Dupree, Flip, the rights to Acker, our 2nd round guy) in a S&T for Gerald Wallace. Duh.


This may possibly be the dumbest thing I've ever said.

We can't get KG for that package?

We can't get KG for that package?

Maybe if we added the rights to Ricky Paulding?

Of course we can, but that would put us too close to the luxury tax.

Of course we can, but that would put us too close to the luxury tax.
I'm glad someone understands my logic.

:emo kid:

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- The Charlotte Bobcats face heavy competition in their effort to re-sign leading scorer Gerald Wallace.

The Bobcats were one of eight teams that contacted Wallace when the NBA's free agency period began at midnight Saturday. Dallas, Orlando, Milwaukee, Detroit, Miami, Portland and Golden State all made inquiries, a person close to Wallace said Sunday.

The person, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the subject, said Wallace hasn't agreed to a deal with any team.

Bobcats part-owner Michael Jordan said last week that re-signing Wallace was one of the team's top offseason priorities. Bobcats vice president of basketball operations Bernie Bickerstaff did not immediately return a phone call Sunday.

Wallace averaged 18.1 points and 7.2 rebounds a game last season, when he made just over $5.5 million. He opted out of the final year of his contract, which would have paid him about $6 million, to become an unrestricted free agent. Wallace could command more than $10 million a season in a deal that could run as long as six years.

The Bobcats took on the first big contract in their three-year history last week when they acquired swingman Jason Richardson from Golden State in a draft-night trade. Richardson, who the Bobcats hope will be the go-to scorer they've been missing, is due about $51 million over the next four seasons.

The Bobcats believe a nucleus of Richardson, Wallace, power forward Emeka Okafor and point guard Raymond Felton would get them to the playoffs next season.

The Bobcats, whose $41 million payroll was well under the salary cap last season, still have the money to pay Wallace. Orlando and Milwaukee are also under the cap. Several other teams would have to do a sign-and-trade deal with Charlotte.

Wallace said near the end of last season that he wanted to re-sign with Charlotte after the Bobcats gave him a chance to play. Wallace, who left Alabama after one season, spent his first three years in the NBA at the end of Sacramento's bench.

But the Bobcats selected the 6-foot-7 slasher in the 2004 expansion draft, and he quickly blossomed.


Does the fact that we called indicate we'd try some sort of sign and trade?

no. not even a little.

Gerald Wallace is an enigma. Charlotte Bobcats are notorious for getting guys huge stats in their play for steals and cheap assists system. Can Gerald become a lockdown defender? I'm not so sure.

How much would Brevin Knight want? He would be a fantastic backup PG for the right price. Let Arnie work his magic again...

Another guy is Desmond Mason. He is a slasher isnt he? Could be an expensive backup for Tay though...

Knight is meeting with the Nuggets today, apparently.

Dumars said Stuckey is our backup. We probably aren't going to spend money on another backup PG.

We probably aren't going to spend money.

fixed

So we're not getting Grant Hill.

Who does Joe target now?

A quick list of free agent swingmen


Mickael Pietrus (RFA)
Matt Barnes
James Posey
Charlie Bell (RFA)
Ruben Patterson
Desmond Mason
Jalen Rose
Jumaine Jones
Travis Outlaw (RFA)
Morris Peterson
Jarvis Hayes (RFA)

posey, patterson, peterson, and no one else(jarvis defense irks me personally).

But the reality may be none of those guys. In fact we very well may see Affalo do the double role as SG/SF with stuckey nabbing the double role of pg/sg.

I'm not up to speed on Portland's salary situation, but seeing that they just traded for James Jones, I wonder if we could steal Travis Outlaw from them?

I've liked him for a long time, and he's young/athletic.

Not sure if they would match an offer or not.

I like Barnes and Pietrus, too.

Pietrus is real nice, but we won't pay to steal him.

What's up with Mason? Not sure he'd work with Flip's system, but he's a wrecking ball who could be sent in to shake things up.

Pietrus is real nice, but we won't pay to steal him.

What's up with Mason? Not sure he'd work with Flip's system, but he's a wrecking ball who could be sent in to shake things up.
I never liked Mason myself. One dimensional player whose pretty much nothing if he can't get to the hole. I'm wont pitch a fit if we sign him. But I cant say he's impressed me in any part of his game outside of dunking.

Mason seems like a better version Ronald Dupree.

Which wouldn't be a bad thing if he came at the same price and if we didn't have the real Ronald Dupree already.

:mccosky:


Hill a Sun

Grant Hill decided to take less money and sign with the Suns. Even though the Pistons would have paid him at least twice as much, Hill to the veteran's minimum (about $3.5 million over two years). He felt like the Suns were closer to winning a title than the Pistons.

What next for the Pistons? Not really sure, but Mo Peterson has been discussed. Utah and Cleveland have been wooing the former Spartan. The Pistons definitely are looking to spend their mid-level exception on a veteran small forward.

we need some enforcers:

XxU3YXcRwV0

oIQRCVSHzgA

I wish I had video of the time Barry got t'd up for handing the ball to the ref and fixing his shoe.

A quick list of free agent swingmen

all of these guys except Jalen will command a lot more money than Hill would have...after Kapono got 6 a year, and Carroll got 4, i think those guys all want the MLE and maybe even get it, who knows...whats important is not the question who we can get for the full MLE, its the question who wants to come here for say 3 a year on a short contract, cause i doubt we would be willing to pay more for a backup SF, we re not going to hit the tax for backup SF

Since Hill is out of the picture, I'm thinking that it makes a lot of sense for Joe to go ahead and find the best possible SF, maybe Pietrus, and give him that MLE offer. If you are eventually going to tie up your MLE for a week while the other team decides if they want to match or not, probably should get the clock ticking just in case they do.

That way, if they do match, there will still be some options left in the marketplace.

Put the pressure on GSW and see if they match, if they do, make the same offer to Barnes (if he's still available).

If the Pistons have already decided to use their MLE, then what they do with it doesn't effect Chauncey or Amir, really.

They may have to give away Flip Murray and a pick to avoid the tax, but so be it.

Glenn for Assistant to Joe D. and John H!

I'm not sure you'd even have to send a pick with Flip. just pay a good portion of his contract (by trading cash). You'd avoid the tax (and paying the contract twice) and the team gets a rental player for free basically (since he's an expiring). no risk for them.

:lathamjahnke:



The Pistons now will have to turn their mid-level attention elsewhere. The target will still be a backup small forward for Tayshaun Prince. Former Michigan State swingman Morris Peterson could be one option, although he has drawn interest from Utah as well.

Other small forward names on the free-agent list include Bulls restricted free agent Andres Nocioni, Dallas swingman Jerry Stackhouse, Miami’s James Posey and Golden State’s Matt Barnes and Mickael Pietrus.

Who is a realistic option? Right now, I’m not sure.

Stackhouse is expected to re-sign with the Mavs, and a contingent from the Memphis Grizzlies had flown south to Argentina to woo Nocioni. The Grizzlies have cap room to play with, meaning they can offer more than the mid-level.

The Warriors want one of their two free agents back. Barnes is unrestricted. Pietrus is restricted, and four teams had already offered their full mid-level, according to the San Francisco Chronicle.

Posey had received attention from six teams, none of them Detroit, according to the Miami Herald. The Heat has already lost one free agent in Jason Kapono, and they’ll try hard to at least get a sign-and-trade situation if it can’t keep Posey.

1. Nocioni
2. Stackhouse (sorry, I had to...)
3. Milicic -- I honestly truly think signing Darko to the MLE once he realizes what is really out there could be the way to go.

You think the Bulls are going to let us sign Noc?

The other two I'll leave for someone else.

I don't want us to go after Nocioini for three reasons:

1 - I HATE Nocioni
2 - I hope that a team offers him more than the mLE so the Bulls have to pay more.
3 - I HATE Nocioni

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune....ulls-headlines (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-070704bulls,1,2050305.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines)

Bulls offering Nocioni $38M

By K.C. Johnson
Tribune staff reporter

July 4, 2007, 11:07 PM CDT


Several twists and turns still could develop before the free-agent signing moratorium ends July 11.

But for one relatively quiet holiday, some momentum swung the Bulls' way in the wooing of Andres Nocioni.



As one of only three teams with significant cap room now that the Orlando Magic has reached an oral agreement with Rashard Lewis, the Memphis Grizzlies are weighing their options with interest in Nocioni as well as Cavaliers restricted free agent Anderson Varejao.

The longer the Grizzlies wait, however, the more attractive a Bulls offer that already is on the table could become.

A source said the Bulls' five-year offer starts near $6.3 million to $6.4 million for the first season. Factoring in a 10.5 percent increase of the first season's salary annually, the total package sits at approximately $38.1 million to $38.7 million.

The Bulls could increase that offer and also would have seven days to match any offer sheet Nocioni signed with Memphis. General manager John Paxson has vowed to match any offers for his hyperactive forward.

nocioni is a chucker... but we dont have many good options left. it maybe time to take the best of the worst.

i'd be thrilled if we brought darko back. start the fucker. why the hell not? it would be like orlando paid us the #15 pick so they could develop him for us for 100 games.

1. Nocioni
2. Stackhouse (sorry, I had to...)
3. Milicic -- I honestly truly think signing Darko to the MLE once he realizes what is really out there could be the way to go.
20 dollars says b-diddy came if his panties when you stated the 3rd option. [smilie=jefffoster.:

Noc is staring at a huge offer from the Grizzlies, Andy Varejaeo must have waited too long to sign that offer sheet.

This apparently says $46 million over five years for Noc: http://www.ole.com.ar/notas/2007/07/05/01451057.html

I hope the Bulls pay Nocioni a lot. They are going to be facing some taxes soon. With Ben making 15+, Hinrich making 10+, Gordon and Deng up for raises next year (they'll get 10+) and Nocioni making 6+...that's 51 mil locked up in 5 players. Either they'll be facing taxes in a year or they'll be forced to make some drastic trades.

they would be crazy to give noci that deal. for one, they dont even have room for him. unless you consider the 8 minutes a game they need from him behind deng worth 6 million.

I wish I knew what Joe planned on doing with Rip, because if he planned on trading him once Chauncey is locked up, we could take a serious run at Gerald Wallace with the MLE. I don't think Wallace would come here for MLE contract if he can't start but if the MLE is 6 million and we give him the full MLE and had the starting SG spot open he might bite.

^poor.

I wish I knew what Joe planned on doing with Rip, because if he planned on trading him once Chauncey is locked up, we could take a serious run at Gerald Wallace with the MLE. I don't think Wallace would come here for MLE contract if he can't start but if the MLE is 6 million and we give him the full MLE and had the starting SG spot open he might bite.
You'd throw Rip away just for Gerald Wallace, to play SG at that? I'm not ragging on G Dub, in fact he's earned alot of respect from me. But I wouldnt dare bank on him so hard as to throw away our by far most consistent and leading scorer for him to bite on a contract to play SG. Until he develops something resembling a jump shot(not counting his spot up 3's of course) and clutch FT shooting, he doesnt deserve more than MLE, nor does he deserve Rip's spot I think. But thats just my 2 cents.

With that said, I love the guy's defense and when he gets to the hole he's hard as fuck to stop. But as a SG, i'd rather have Rip.

Guys you are misunderstanding me, I am not saying Trade Rip for Wallace, or Advocating trading Rip at all.

What I am saying is simply this, a lot of speculation in this town post draft is that Flip Murray and Rip are likely headed out of town. If that is true and Rip will be moved regardless of Hill, Wallace or MoPete, then our chances at signing Wallace would be greater if we had a hole in the starting SG/SF spot to offer.

I would love to get Wallace as a 6th man and keep Rip, don't misunderstand me. My point was if Joe is going to make a move involving Rip it would be better to do it sooner than later, because the top FA's will dry up and the moving of a starter would not make as much sense.

FWIW Joe should move whomever he is going to move if anybody while the market is still viable, whether it is Rip, Tay, Chauncey or Sheed. I just think it is poor planning to move a starter after the FA market dries out if you could have gotten a better via FA.

For example if Joe made the BS trade with Seattle as I heard on the radio (1270)... Wilcox, Watson, Wilkens and Petro for Rip, Dupree and Nazr happened; wouldn't you rather get Gerald Wallace than have Flip Murray, or Stuckey be thrown into the starting 5?

gerald wallace is my boy. i'd love to have him here. his defense makes up for rip's offense, plus he's the slasher we've always wanted. if we could guarantee his health, i, for one, would trade rip for gerald. if we rolled out billups, gerald, tay, and sheed, we'd be unscoragainstable from the 1 to 4 spots.

Unless Chauncey keeps letting everyone go by him...

I'd deal Tay for Wallace in a heartbeat...

You guys are nuts

Actually, check that. I'd deal Tay AND Maxiell for Wallace in a heartbeat.

GW can do everything better than Tayshaun can, except shoot.

gerald wallace does have health concerns, and virtually no resume to speak of, which is why i'd take tay over him (plus length). gerald is a nasty basketball player though. and exactly what this team needs. someone who's going to put it all on the line. kinda like a prime ben wallace at the 3.

tay also has a better post game than gerald, or any other three that i know of, for that matter. i'd hold on to that. one mediocre playoffs is defitily forgiveable.

Actually, check that. I'd deal Tay AND Maxiell for Wallace in a heartbeat.

GW can do everything better than Tayshaun can, except shoot.

Oh Hells no. You don't trade the forward that's going to posterize every other forward. I actually think Jmax can really contribute for years to come. Trading tay for gerald is enough but addding Jmax to the mix[smilie=peepwall.gi:

What I am saying is simply this, a lot of speculation in this town post draft is that Flip Murray and Rip are likely headed out of town.
I know your sources are pretty damn good J. But if theres any truth to Rip on his way out, Then Dumars needs his head checked and he's officially an idiotic cunt in my book.. But replacing him with G Dub at the 2 spot(where quick guards will blow by him easy) doesnt really sound bright either. Again thats just my opinion of that idea. whether its likely or not, i can't personally say i like the prospect of losing Rip, and/or gaining wallace as a SG.
:emo kid:

Don't Kill the messenger, but there is a rumor that Joe may offer part of the MLE to Corliss/or Magloire (Right now he has no suitors beyond part of the MLE) and part to Brevin Knight, providing they can get Amir signed or matched and Chauncey's deal to start at 11-13 million.

oddly enough, I'd be ok with Corliss, Maglore or Knight, providing they were signed for #4 mil or less each.

Those are all guys that can fit in here.

i saw corliss play for sac and he still has a decent amount left in the tank. i'd take him back.

Petrie said 'everyone likes him(Corlis) around here. We've had prelims but no offer is on the table.

I think Corlis is 32 but hasn't played tons of minutes. He says he wants to play 6 more years and is looking for a 3 year deal.

When Wallace came into the league he was a leaper but didnt have a great jumper, iirc. He really has developed. I didn't think he was in Tays category though.

I would not want Corliss at all. Where would he play? he's too slow to guard the 3 spot. So does he take minutes from Max? No thanks. I liked Corliss, but I'd rather have a younger forward that can also rebound and block shots, which corliss cannot. Just give those minutes to max.

Corliss would provide some much needed low post scoring, but Chris raises some vaild concerns as well.

Not sure about this one.

Interesting about Magliore though, Joe must have read here yesterday, lol.

Corliss would provide some much needed low post scoring, but Chris raises some vaild concerns as well.

Not sure about this one.

Interesting about Magliore though, Joe must have read here yesterday, lol.

If for some reason we moved Dyess for Battier (or another wing), then I'd consider Corliss because we'd need a scoring PF off the bench (at least until Amir is ready to contribute).

:mccosky:


Pistons ponder options

With Hill being signed by the Suns, several other candidates are available to fill small-forward spot.

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

AUBURN HILLS -- With Grant Hill out of the mix, the Pistons will have to dig a little deeper to find a veteran small forward.

Hill accepted, in principle, a two-year, $3.8 million offer from the Suns on Thursday. The Pistons would have paid him at least twice that, but Hill believed Phoenix was closer to winning a title.

The Pistons have two options: They can buy a small forward using all or part of their mid-level exception or make a trade.

Several intriguing players remain available:

Morris Peterson: The former Flint and Michigan State player has been courted by Utah, Cleveland, Denver, Miami and Sacramento. Peterson, a seven-year veteran, will turn 30 in August. He would provide another potent scorer off the bench.

Ruben Patterson: Patterson is coming off his career-high scoring season, but the Bucks want no part of him. He would provide defensive toughness and present a nice change of pace subbing for Tayshaun Prince. He's 32 and has baggage, but he wouldn't cost the Pistons the full mid-level.

Mickael Pietrus: He is restricted, which means the Warriors can match any offer. He's athletic and has shown flashes of greatness. It would be a coup if the Pistons could land him.

Desmond Mason: He's limited offensively, despite above-average athleticism.

Matt Barnes: He had a breakout year with the Warriors and was one of their best players in the playoffs. He's an aggressive 6-foot-7 wingman who showed the ability to attack the basket and score. He has a limited perimeter game but would be an upgrade over Carlos Delfino. He's 27 and just entering his prime.

Sasha Pavlovic: A longshot, but his length and quickness on the perimeter hurt the Pistons' offense in the playoffs. The Cavaliers are expected to match any offer.


I hope we stay the hell away from Pavlovic. I've read that the Cavs really don't like him as much as they are leading on, and he didn't really impress me in the playoffs either. Too slow.

I'm really liking Barnes or Pietrus.

1. Barnes

2. Mo Pete

3. Patterson

4. Pietrus (would be higher if not restricted and likely to get more money)

5. Pavlovic (I wasn't that impressed with him either).

Who I'd like to get:

1) Pietrus
2) MoPete
3) Patterson and Barnes tie

Did Patterson and Sheed play together in Portland?

That might be a bad mix.

If GSW re-signs Barnes, I doubt they would match on Pietrus. I don't know if there is any S&T potential there or not.

GSW has a $10m trade exception from the JRich deal, FWIW

I see MoPete, Mason & Pavlovic more as SGs that can play SF, but aren't really SFs (kind of like Delfino).

Did Patterson and Sheed play together in Portland?

That might be a bad mix.

If GSW re-signs Barnes, I doubt they would match on Pietrus. I don't know if there is any S&T potential there or not.

GSW has a $10m trade exception from the JRich deal, FWIW

I see MoPete, Mason & Pavlovic more as SGs that can play SF, but aren't really SFs (kind of like Delfino).

I agree. If they keep Barnes I would do a S&T for Pietrus with Flip.

Sheed and Patterson played together for 3 years in Portland BTW.

I say no to Corliss, I never liked him and thought he was reallly selfish.

Pavlovic can not drive, and if he does he can not finish. I dont know how many layups he missed during the playoffs. H is 3 pt shot isn't bad, but nothing else is particulary good.

I remember wanting us to draft Pietrus a few years ago...

From what I remember, he's athletic as hell, and his NBA comparison on multiple reports was "a cross between Ray Allen and Desmond Mason," which would basically amount to a top tier NBA player. We haven't seen this kind of player yet, as he's way too inconsistent... But I think he'd be pretty solid off our bench with a decent number of minutes.

Personally I'd stay away from Barnes for 2 reasons:

1. Nellie ball tends to make mediocre players look better than they are. The Warriors increased their ppg total by 8 with Nellie which means more shots for all. Barnes might excel in this "run and gun" type of system led by a great play-making point guard but not here in Detroit with Billups- a guy that can't create for anyone, even himself, and in this team's half-court philosophy.

2. Stay away from career scrubs that have their only good season in a contract year. There is a laundary list of players that have done this to their benefit (Brian Caridinal, Eric Dampier, Tyronne Lue, Kenny Thomas, etc., etc., etc. Stay far away.

I'd prefer a more proven commodity like Morris Peterson or a guy with potential like Pietrus. Patterson is also a much better player than people think but the fact that he's a convicted sex-offender may turn some people off.

Desmond Mason blows. He would be BAD for this team and needs to play in a system more like you see in Golden St. or Phoenix.

Barnes might excel in this "run and gun" type of system led by a great play-making point guard but not here in Detroit with Billups- a guy that can't create for anyone, even himself, and in this team's half-court philosophy.



He led the league in asst/to ratio. Better than Nash.

He led the league in asst/to ratio. Better than Nash.

But how many of those were simple passes in to RIP on a curl screen? You can't tell me he's a better PG than Nash. I think Billups is a solid PG (we're just talking PG skills here and ignoring his scoring), but not great. What makes him great is his scoring ability added to his solid PG skills. If you want a guy to run your offense I would take Nash, Deron Williams, Parker, Kidd and Paul before Billups.

No doubt Billups had a great year, but it also helps to have a guy like RIP knocking down open mid range looks off those screens. I could make that pass to RIP.

Yargs is right. Billups does not create shots for his teammates. He can create for himself, but not his teammates. RIP gets open looks from Sheed screens. Sheed gets open looks from operating in the post himself, or a kick out. Tay gets looks the same way. Billups can control the game but he's not going to make another player better by finding him looks. Not like how Kidd made Kmart a truckload of money. Or how Williams made Okur and Boozer all star caliber players. He just doesn't posess the PG skills to do that.

And that's fine. I like Billups a ton. I want him to stay. But realize what he is, which is a combo guard, and one of the best.

Yeah, it seemed like Billups assist numbers were greatly aided by the lack of ball movement this year. There wasn't a lot of swinging the ball from side to side this year at all.

He held the ball until he found someone for an open (or contested) jumpshot. A good number of those go down and you've got a buttload of assists. I wouldn't call that "making plays" necessarily.

Still the best option we've got, of course.

I never said he was a better pg than Nash. I was calling Yargs dumb for saying Billups can't create at all. You want to take away Rip's jumpers, fine. But you mean to tell me Nash doesn't get 3 asst. per game just handing the ball off to Amare for a dunk over 2 guys skulls, or passing upcourt to Marion who's gotten behind the D? Being strong enough to get where you want on the floor to make a pass is no better/worse than juking someone and quick dribbling there. One just looks prettier.

Chauncey Billups is a spot-up, jump shooter that sometimes can out-physical smaller point guards for easy buckets.

He can't create for himself (he's not quick) and our opponents are starting to figure this out. Put a taller player on him (like a crippled Larry Hughes) and he ceases being effective because he can't get his jump shot off.

He has low turnovers because he doesn't take chances with the ball by either taking it to the basket, running fast breaks or dribble penetrating. He's just lucky he gets the chance to play with guys that are so good at scoring without the ball in their hands.

Tayshaun Prince is our best play maker which is not a good thing.

Tay Prince can only dribble in one direction. Please.

Mark Jackson got to 2nd on the all time asst. list playing the same way Cbill rolls, just in a different era that better suited his style. You can't tell me that if you put David Wesley on the fucking dream team he would lead the league in Asst/TO ratio. This is the NBA, and the ability to run an offense, any offense, is a rare talent not to be taken for granted. Shame on all your spoiled asses.

At one time Billups could take it to the whole like Baron Davis. Now he doesn't do it. On occasion he does, but usually he gets the ball stripped (flailing his arms) or he gets the foul call. He rarely converts the basket itself. Most of his "big shots" (and they are very big, so I am not discounting their worth) are off a couple dribbles and hoisting a 3 ball. He creates some space for himself that way, but he won't blow by anybody to the basket unless he has a clear mismatch. He's just not explosive enough.

And yes, Tay can only dribble to one side, which is sad. RIP does a better job lately of taking people off the dribble than Billups does. RIP cannot run and offense though. He must take it himself or not create at all. If he passes out of his dribble it's a TO. Billups is just a very smart player, which is why his ast/TO ratio is so good.

Tay Prince can only dribble in one direction. Please.

Mark Jackson got to 2nd on the all time asst. list playing the same way Cbill rolls, just in a different era that better suited his style. You can't tell me that if you put David Wesley on the fucking dream team he would lead the league in Asst/TO ratio. This is the NBA, and the ability to run an offense, any offense, is a rare talent not to be taken for granted. Shame on all your spoiled asses.

Great...we're about to give a max contract to Mark Jackson.

And yes, even though Tayshaun can only dribble in one direction he's STILL the best play-maker we have. Now that is sad and a major reason why this team struggles to score 80 points in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the playoffs.

You can choose to live viewing life through those 2004-NBA-Championship-Series-vs.-the-Lakers-rose-colored-glasses but I've chosen otherwise. People forget just how bad Billups has been the further we advance in the playoffs year in and year out. Put a taller player on him or double-team Chauncey and you get a chauncey you saw in the Cleveland series, a guy that's forced to dribble/create and a guy who averages more turnovers than assists (21 assists/23 turnovers).

He is a severely overrated basketball player which is why no one wants him for what he's asking for. We're the only team dumb enough to pay him.

^^Werd.

Assuming that LH returns to the roster. What about Derek Fisher? I mean he is look for a situation that allows him to take care of his daughter. He said he doesn't want to retire, he just wants a team that would be flexible and money isn't an issue. I know Fish isn't a great defender, but he can create turnovers and would be instant offense and energy. Even if he missed a lot of games during the regular season he would be perfect for the playoff run given his experience, poise and ability.

I'd be down for Fish (~Gutz warning~) if Joe hadn't been insisting that Stuckey is a PG. Add to that the fact that we have glaring holes at SF and C and I don't think the money or the roster space is there.

I can't see why he wouldn't go back to the Lakers, where he could start.

Yeah, if Joe had drafted Nick Young and a big man at #27 then Fish would be a good option. i don't see the fit now.

Fucking disgraceful, but I guess we all saw this coming, I suppose.


:mccosky:


What next?

The Pistons are still in the hunt for a veteran small forward. They were set to use their mid-level exception (roughly $6 million) on Grant Hill , who agreed to a two-year package from Phoenix.

Pistons president Joe Dumars has said he wasn't particularly enamored with the rest of the available small forwards on the market (including Morris Peterson and Ruben Patterson ), so there is a good chance that for the first time in at least six years, the Pistons might not use their mid-level exception.

Dumars has indicated he might prefer to trade for a small forward.

He has several tradable commodities, including Nazr Mohammed and Flip Murray .

^Ugh.

I dont think I want any small forward who is crappy enough to be had for Nazr/Flip, if there is even anyone on that list.

Id be surprised if much happens beyond resigning Amir, honestly. Id like Pietrus, Barnes, or someone like that, but I dont see any of them coming here. Now that JRich is gone, I see the Warriors keeping their other guys.

fisher wants to be on the east coast..why would he want to come here?

his daughter is in NY...sure its an hour flight form here, but im sure hed prefer a 10-30 minute drive...and im pretty sure he doesnt care about titles anymore.

3 possible deals getting a SF for Nazr:

Nazr+ Flip for Miles, talented, injury phrone, worst attitude in the league, has 3 years left on his contract @ 8 per year...well this one would be crazy...no one wants this guy, even Isiah didnt deal for him...

Nazr for Cardinal, bring back the Custodian :), 3 years left, 6 per year

Nazr for Radmanonvic, lazy ass 3 point shooter, 4 years left, 6 per year

well thats about it, its not easy to find an overpayed SF who is eligible for an overpayed center

i'd say we rather stick with Nazr or trade him for another center like Haywood, and try our luck by trying to deal Flip only again, he should be worth something, beeing in the last year of his contract

Fucking disgraceful, but I guess we all saw this coming, I suppose.


:mccosky:


The stupid ass thing about not using the MLE is that it is cap amnesty, you can go over and fill holes. Now if we didn't have two giant holes at C and back up SF and to a lesser extent back up PG, I could get not wasting money if guys aren't needed, but that is not the case here.

Plus it's not like you are forced to use the full MLE. I mean Joe could sign a veteran or two to part of the MLE for only a year or two, he doesn't have to give them 5 years at 30 million.

This is bullshit and retarded cheapness; assuming Flip is traded, his salary is replaced by the two rookies. So that puts us at 51 million, Chauncey in year one starts at 10 million ( a huge favor he gave the team), so we are at 61 million, and at worst 4 million from the lux tax threshold if it doesn't go up from 65.4 million. So at worst the organization would have to pay 5 million in lux tax if they used the full MLE and signed Amir for a deal around 4 million per.

its not like there is a real differencemaker out there, who would sign for a part of the mle or like only 2 years,full mle....Hill was that guy, and it sounded like they were ready to offer him the full mle for 2 years, but Hill decided to take less money and Phoenix...all the young decent SF with some potential would want the full MLE, like Pietrus,Barnes...the decent vets like Petterson want the full mle over 5 years too, so yeah this is a good opportunity to save Bill D some cash again...i am not sure a guy like Devin Brown, Patterson would really help us out at backup SF and its only logical not to pay tax for those kind of guys...i could be wrong, but i guess we'll never find out if the Pistons were ready to pay tax if we got Hill ...

3 possible deals getting a SF for Nazr:

Nazr+ Flip for Miles, talented, injury phrone, worst attitude in the league, has 3 years left on his contract @ 8 per year...well this one would be crazy...no one wants this guy, even Isiah didnt deal for him...

Nazr for Cardinal, bring back the Custodian :), 3 years left, 6 per year

Nazr for Radmanonvic, lazy ass 3 point shooter, 4 years left, 6 per year

well thats about it, its not easy to find an overpayed SF who is eligible for an overpayed center

i'd say we rather stick with Nazr or trade him for another center like Haywood, and try our luck by trying to deal Flip only again, he should be worth something, beeing in the last year of his contract

I like your line of thinking Joe, but the first two guys you named (Miles & Cardinal) may never step foot on an NBA court again. Both are considering retirement.

The Blazers are said to be very excited that Miles has gotten "fat" and is apparently almost crippled (they are hoping to get some insurance relief from his contract). Cardinal has chronic injuries and he's rumored to be ready to hang it up.

I'm just sickened by this whole "not using the MLE" thing. Fill the holes as best as you can by splitting it for two role players (SF,C) or go find a Euro that can get out of his contract.

Just do something except watch the bottom line, Jesus!

We don't need a difference-maker, we need a goddamn bench!

This is part of an article from Hoopsworld, yeah, I know. It doesn't deserve a link, though.


Not only do the Pistons need a small forward but just like everyone else in the NBA, the Pistons are looking for a power forward/center who can post-up, rebound, and defend. These players are the cornerstone of most NBA champions. There are several players who should be able to help the Pistons but because their services are in demand, ownership will have to open up the checkbook in order to lure them to Detroit.

Of note, there is Alonzo Mourning who can provide quality minutes and excellent post-defense and Mikki Moore who had a break-out season with the Nets last year and will score and rebound. Mourning will be an enforcer who will definitely protect the paint. He is still in great physical condition, despite age and illness, and would help the team get back to the tough defensive team that is capable of winning a championship. In complete contrast to Mourning is Mikki Moore. He will be able to provide offense from the perimeter (somewhat like C-Webb) and grab some boards.

In addition, there is Dikembe Motumbo (sic) and Jamaal Magloire. Deke, like Mourning, is an “old-timer” but can still protect the paint, block shots and grab some boards. Last season in Houston when Yao Ming went down with an injury, Deke stepped up and helped keep the Rockets in playoff contention. Magloire, on the other hand, has had a few rough seasons. But this young man is a former All-Star whose career could be revived on a team like the Pistons. Jamaal is a post-player and a good rebounder.

Finally, the Pistons will look to re-sign restricted free agent Amir Johnson. Everyone raves about this kid and most expect that along with Jason Maxiell, and Stuckey will be the future of the Pistons. This may be the year when all three of these young guys contribute to the overall success of the team.

I can't believe that anyone would think that Zo would come here. I think WTFDetroit might implode if that ever happened.

I would mind bringing Deke in. He wouldn't have much offensively, but he'd be a pretty good defensive force and rebounder for us. He proved he still had it last year.

Fucking disgraceful, but I guess we all saw this coming, I suppose.


:mccosky:


I'd agree that it was disgraceful if there was anyone out there worh a damn that could be had for the MLE. IMO, anyone we sign , we'd be looking to dump in 2 months just like Nazr.

That's why I think splitting it to fortify the bench is the best option right now.

there really isnt anyone that catches my eye either. darko maybe... but thats not reallistic from either side.

as much shit as i give joe and penny pincher, i dont believe they should just go sign a couple guys like they did w/ nazr/ flip or dale / evans. we operate w/ too thin a line for error to throw away money. i dont want us to have to take a hard line stance on maxiell. imo, overpaying for the right guy is better than getting the wrong guy for a more reasonable contract (re: ben / nazr). atleast now we should have no problem bringing back whats his face, for what its worth.

our front line isnt ideal, but im not sure we have gaping holes. if joe can use nazr to get a a decent player back at either the 3 or the 5 (the 3), he might even find his way back into my good graces. I dont think positions are defined nearly as much as they were even a few years ago.

I'm liking Samb more and more...

To me, it's all about collecting assets, even if you move them later.

Sign them to one year deals and you've got valuable expirings to move in a trade(s).

no free agent worth a damn is going to sign a 1-year deal.

To me, it's all about collecting assets, even if you move them later.

that sounds like Isiah ;)

hey if we can't get decent veterans to fill out the bench, we absolutly have to play Max,Amir,Afflalo,Stuckey...ok i'll really doubt all those guys will see regular minutes, but who knows, it could happen...but than again Flip beeing our coach...

To me, it's all about collecting assets, even if you move them later.

Sign them to one year deals and you've got valuable expirings to move in a trade(s).

Actually, the more I think about it, I don't think you can trade players that you sign to one year deals. Too lazy to look it up, though.


that sounds like Isiah ;)

Isiah doesn't collect expiring deals, he trades them for guys with bad contracts.

Isiah doesn't collect expiring deals, he trades them for guys with bad contracts.
Pretty much. :emo kid:

Actually, the more I think about it, I don't think you can trade players that you sign to one year deals. Too lazy to look it up, though.
You give them a three year contract with the 2nd and 3rd years as "team options" and then you can. We actually had such a player for about 5 minutes with Amal McCaskill.

Patterson is also a much better player than people think but the fact that he's a convicted sex-offender may turn some people off.

I've been thinking about what Patterson could provide here (sex offender comments aside) and I'll admit that I'm a bit more interested now.

Bringing him off the bench to spell Tay for 10-15 minutes a night wouldn't be all that bad. He can defend with the best of them (help with LeBron?) and can score a bit too.

Splitting the MLE between Patterson and Magliore would probably be my ideal plan at this point, if we are being realistic.

I'm not a huge fan but he's probably one of our best options. Patterson and Magliore wouldn't be all that amazing, but its about the best we can do. Maybe Magliore gets motivated and plays like his old self if its a short term deal. Who knows.

Qyntel Woods?


Woods In Contract Talks With Several Top Euro Clubs

July 11, 2007 - 2:18 pm

NBA veteran Qyntel Woods is currently in ongoing contract discussions with high-level European teams, Efes Pilsen (Turkey), Olympiakos (Greece), Bologna (Italy), Malaga (Spain) and Prokom (Poland) after participating in a private workout in Las Vegas on Tuesday at the Abunassar Impact Basketball gym.

Woods, (6-8, 225) last played in the NBA in 2005-06 for the New York Knicks where he averaged 6.7 ppg on 51% FG shooting in 20.7 minutes per game for coach Larry Brown.

The workout and discussions were confirmed to XXXXXX (source removed, fuck them) by Andy Bountogianis, Director of Worldwide Basketball for basketball agency Mark Termini Associates of Cleveland, Ohio.

Representatives of the Detroit Pistons were also in attendance on Tuesday, and workouts are planned for Woods with additional NBA and European teams this week in Las Vegas.

It is believed that if Woods finalizes an agreement with any of the European clubs, the deal could be in excess of $1M USD.

I don't remember too much about Q in Portland or NY other than he was a punk. Anyone remember more from watching him? Don't need a wikiwtf here, just your thoughts. Patterson will cost us a multi year deal, but he is ready to compete defensively, which is what Joe will love. Woods is young and athletic, which could be nice as well.

Qyntel is shit. What's next -- Rodney White?

How much ya wanna bet that the Pistons were there to see some Euro, not Q?

The Lions might as well trade for Vick and start a bitchin' metro Detroit dog fighting ring. Can we include those in the Sportsbook?

The Pistons are interested in free-agent forward Morris Peterson, but the Flint native and former Michigan State star appears to favor Utah and Denver (both would offer him a chance to start; in Detroit, the long-time Toronto Raptor would be a reserve) over the Pistons.

How would Denver be starting Mo Pete? AI at PG and Mo Pete at SG? I would think Ellis would be starting. Utah picked Morris Almond who is supposed to be one of the best NBA ready scorers in the draft. I can't imagine it would be long before he's starting, and they still have Ak47 and Harpring there.

I'm not saying he should come here, but I don't think those two teams will be giving him 30 MPG or anything.

How would Denver be starting Mo Pete? AI at PG and Mo Pete at SG? I would think Ellis would be starting.

If you are thinking about Monta Ellis, he's with GSW.

Denver's probable starter at SG right now is JR Smith, and after his car accident, who knows if he'll be ready.

Yeah, that's who I meant, Smith (brain fart on the name). I forgot about the accident. I suppose that's probably Mo Pete's best bet then. Here he would basically be a backup SF for 15 MPG.

Don't forget Smith fucked the nuggets during the playoffs as well so Karl hates him anyways.

Forget Qyntel Woods, he signed with Olympiakos (Acker's former team).

Any Dee Brown fans out there? (the young one, not the old "King Kong Jam" one)

He's likely done in Utah with the signing of Ronnie Price.

How about we give him $1m and send Lindsey out to pasture?

I wonder how Deron feels. Teammates of a winning season, then Brown would back up Deron. With Fisher out, Brown finally had his chance!!!! Too bad they got Price instead.

I'd sign Brown for a mil if we retired LH.

I'd love to give the guy a chance here. Hunter needs to retire. I'd rather use his time developing young talent.

Allan Ray anyone? Never had the chance but is a good shooter. I have no idea why he was taken so low in last year's draft.

Did the Celtics waive him? I loved Bill Simmons pointing out that the Cs now had Ray Allen and Allan Ray. That needed to happen, dammit.

^Signed to play overseas somewhere already

Shit, I wouldn't have minded having him around pushing the rooks.

Interesting that Joe was apparently talking to McInnis.

I wonder if his interest was pre-Jarvis signing or post-Jarvis signing?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2996708&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines


McInnis re-signs with Bobcats, to get bigger role this season

Associated Press

Updated: August 29, 2007, 5:46 PM ET

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- The Charlotte Bobcats found their backup point guard Wednesday when they re-signed Jeff McInnis to a one-year, $1.2 million contract.

McInnis, who was an unrestricted free agent, averaged 4.3 points and 3.3 assists in 38 games last season as the No. 3 point guard behind starter Raymond Felton and Brevin Knight.

McInnis, who turns 33 in October, will take on a bigger role as Felton's main backup next season after the Bobcats bought out the final year of Knight's contract.

Bobcats vice president of basketball operations Bernie Bickerstaff said McInnis and new coach Sam Vincent hit it off during offseason workouts.

"Jeff did a nice job for us last year and he's certainly a veteran backup," Bickerstaff said. "He and Sam were on the same page. Sam was really impressed with Jeff. They've been working together this summer and communicating."

McInnis' agent, Steve Kauffman, said at least five teams expressed interest in his client, including Detroit, Miami and Boston. But McInnis, who grew up in Charlotte and played in college at North Carolina, wanted to play for the hometown team.

"There were other teams interested at the same salary level, but there was never any question that Jeff wanted to be in Charlotte," Kauffman said.

Charlotte acquired McInnis from New Jersey in January for swingman Bernard Robinson. McInnis sat out the final 48 games of the 2005-06 season after undergoing knee surgery and had a falling out with Nets coach Lawrence Frank during his rehabilitation.

McInnis claimed he was completely healthy by the end of the summer, but wasn't allowed to attend New Jersey's training camp. He hadn't played in almost a year when the Bobcats acquired him.

McInnis has averaged 9.9 points and 4.4 assists in his 10-year career.

Remember McI was Joe's fallback plan if Chauncey didn't originally sign with us for the MLE.

Great...we're about to give a max contract to Mark Jackson.

And yes, even though Tayshaun can only dribble in one direction he's STILL the best play-maker we have. Now that is sad and a major reason why this team struggles to score 80 points in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the playoffs.

You can choose to live viewing life through those 2004-NBA-Championship-Series-vs.-the-Lakers-rose-colored-glasses but I've chosen otherwise. People forget just how bad Billups has been the further we advance in the playoffs year in and year out. Put a taller player on him or double-team Chauncey and you get a chauncey you saw in the Cleveland series, a guy that's forced to dribble/create and a guy who averages more turnovers than assists (21 assists/23 turnovers).

He is a severely overrated basketball player which is why no one wants him for what he's asking for. We're the only team dumb enough to pay him.


I found 5 stupid things in this post, can anyone count more?

I've only found 1, him referring to the Pistons as "we".

Chauncey was guarded by someone bigger than himself in the ECF? I thought Boobie Gibson guarded him......

I believe they used Larry Hughes as well.

And they put Bron on him quite a bit later in the series.

I found 5 stupid things in this post, can anyone count more?

Lets see.

1) When has Tayshaun even been a facilitator? He can bring the ball up the court and is smart enough to make the first pass in our offense but he doesn't create open looks for people outside of passing it out to someone while he's backing down his opponent (which doesn't happen often) or passing it along while teams are scrambling to get back to their defensive positions.

2) He references the Lakers' Finals and then says Chauncey always plays his best playoff basketball early in the run.

3)Chauncey is one of the bigger PGs in the league but he acts as though forcing other teams to use another position to guard the point doesn't create problems for opponents. Particularly, our first round opponents never have a problem with this. Never. Certainly not every single year.

4) Any player that can force a team to double him is called an "asset". No one "double teams" Chauncey or any point guard for that matter.

5) Mark Jackson and Chauncey play almost opposite games.

Were those your five?