Info to come.

Not a rumor any more.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6950428

For Isringhausen?

I can wish

Albert Pujols.

WHO DID WE GET

Don't know yet.

I *suspect* its a minor leaguer since we need the roster spot to bring back Kenny boy.

First to guess correctly who we got gets...uhh...cookies?

Maybe Randy Flores?

Don't know yet.

I *suspect* its a minor leaguer since we need the roster spot to bring back Kenny boy.

It could be a RP for the majors since we have an option on McBride still.

THey said they were keeping McBride up this weekend along with Miller.

I'll say we got Mr. Player-to-be-named-later.

I await my cookies.

Don't know yet.

I *suspect* its a minor leaguer since we need the roster spot to bring back Kenny boy.


winner.

Chocolate chip, Hermy?

I like thin mints, thanks.

http://www.gs-cv.org/photos/Thin%20Mint.jpg



I still say it's Pujols though.

^let's not be rediculous, they'd have to give up Casey too. I wouldn't do that.



pretend the above text is in green.

Oh and Hermy

http://www.spotlitemagic.com/spotlitemagic/images/itemslarge/ua83047.jpg

Again, for the job well done.

lol @ everyone bashing Ken in the comments.

Yeah, that's seriously bad reporting. Speculation for quite some time has been that Maroth would get very little in reutrn. I had mentioned in the Tigers rotation thread that the Cards were on of the top 3 likely destinations for him, so I probably deserve a cookie as well. Otis Spunkmeyer Double Chocalate (you know, the chocolate with the white chocolate chips) would be my preference.

I think we should all sign up just to show Kenny how it's done in DA D. After the Pistons debacle Detroit fans aren't fucking around anymore.

What are you talking about? Detroit fans are a bunch of punks.
(Insert registered trademark of John Saunders Int.)

Acquiring minor leaguers for legit starters is so 2001.

Not happy.

What are you talking about? Detroit fans are a bunch of punks.
(Insert registered trademark of John Saunders Int.)

lol! Didn't you ever wonder why he was never fired over that comment?

Anybody else see Maroth in studio last night on the Weather Channel?

I guess this is why he wasn't with the team.

The Detroit News, Free Press, Tigers site don't have the story at this point.
I'm listening to WDFN streaming right now. Minutes away from a sports update to see what, if anything, they have.
...waiting...
...waiting...
...crappy email read and reset 4 times...
...waiting...
...waiting...
...rinse and repeat...
...Mike Conley, Jr next segment, repeated three times...
...Chone Figgins next hour, also repeated three times...
...waiting...
...Silverado commerical...
...waiting...
...waiting...
...Auto Zone...
...waiting...
...waiting...
...waiting...
...$2 off any air filter...
...here it comes...
...refers to Rosenthal article, nothing more...
...Thaddeus Young and Crittendon in town...
...who cares about the Shock...
...learned nothing and waisted some of my time...

Thames-Maroth for Enarcarcian (sp?)-Looper.

...and Albert Pujols.

Man this is pretty suspenseful for a shitty movie guys, I ran out of popcorn!

Leyland helping Larussa out it would appear.

New ESPN story, still nothing


Cardinals acquire lefty pitcher Maroth from Tigers
ESPN.com news services

Updated: June 22, 2007, 1:40 PM ET

The St. Louis Cardinals have acquired left-handed pitcher Mike Maroth from the Detroit Tigers, ESPN the Magazine's Buster Olney reports.

It is not yet known what the Tigers are getting in return for Maroth, who is 5-2 in 13 starts with a 5.06 ERA this season.

Maroth has a career 50-62 record and 4.81 ERA over six major-league seasons, all with the Tigers.

The Cardinals' starting rotation has been devastated by injuries. Ace Chris Carpenter is rehabbing from surgery in May to remove bone spurs from his elbow and Mark Mulder is recovering from rotator cuff surgery in September. And Braden Looper went on the 15-day disabled list on Monday with a shoulder strain.

With so many pitchers out, the Cardinals have been forced to rely on former relievers, including Anthony Reyes and Kip Wells, who are a combined 2-19.

Looking at the Cards roster, best return (besides Izzy) would appear to be Ryan Franklin (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6225) or Tyler Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7475).

But it's probably someone not on the roster. *grumble*

Somebody on MLive's Tigers forum is suggesting that it's this guy: http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Luke%2520Gregerson&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=502381
Looks like a minor league closer, numbers look dominant.

No word yet on who we got, I think Pujols preferred if he let his family know first.

Lots of 'net kids saying that the player to be named later will be Braden Looper (converted from closer/reliever to starter this year). He just went on the DL, so he technically can't be traded, yet.

It's possible I suppose.

According to 1270, the Tigers deny any trade has taken place.

^I just heard that to from SI.

I brought up the fact that this could be a hoax and Ken should be fired a while ago.

Now 1270 just said Maroth was traded for "players to be named later" (Tony Ortiz)

Yeah valenti confirmed it from the st. louis distpatch

PTBNL...gay

1130 just confirmed it was a player to be named later. This leaves open the Brandon Looper possibility correct?

Danny Knobler will supposedly be on Stoney/Wojo today.

He's more dialed in than anyone on these things, IMO.

This trade feels eerily similar to the Delfino trade.

1130 just confirmed it was a player to be named later. This leaves open the Brandon Looper possibility correct?
Looper is a 6-6 starter with an ERA worse than Maroth. What would be the point of that? Was he a lot better as a RP?

Ryan Franklin is possible, but look at his comments last year:
"They signed me to be a starter," Franklin said. "I did nothing in spring training to show them I couldn't start. I gave them a lot of innings in spring training." "I think it was the wrong move on their part," Franklin said. "They didn't see it that way."

He's done well this year as a RP, has his aditude changed?

What about Russ Springer? he's got a lot of K's

I don't know anything about Franklin or Springer, but their numbers look pretty good.

Ok, I'm tuned into WDFN streaming again to try to catch Knobler, but Dery's update now says "a pair of players to be named later".

Interesting info from ESPN on the rules for players to be named later.

Player To Be Named Later
Quite often, you'll read that a player has been traded to another team for "a player to be named later."

There are two restrictions at work here. First, the transaction must be completed within six months. And second, the player named later can't have played in the same league as the team he's being traded to. That's why the player named later is almost always a minor leaguer.

And what if the teams can't agree on who that player will be? This happens rarely, but if no names are agreed upon initially, the clubs will agree on a price to paid in lieu of a player.

Sometimes, at the time of the deal the team receiving the player will provide the other club a list of minor leaguers, and later the club will have their pick of the players on that list. This list is negotiated at the time of the trade. In recent years, the Minnesota Twins lost Enrique Wilson this way. When it came time for Cleveland to make their choice, the Twins did what they could to "hide" Wilson, but the Indians found him anyway.

Finally, sometimes "Player to be named later" is used to trade players on the Disabled List, since it can be embarrassing for a club to trade for a guy who's on the DL.

Bah, I'm still not happy.

Maroth was a chip that should have been used to get immediate bullpen help.

That's two trades this week that DD has made under duress, and that usually means that you didn't get full value in return.

Those Pujols Tigers jerseys are gonna be hot!!

Knobler is on right now and has no clue who it's going to be, but said it happened because they desperately needed to clear the spot before tonight's game. He doesn't expect it will be anyone that will impact this year's team at all.

John Rodriguez apparently.

A beat writer/blogger for the Atlanta Journal Consitution...


Why didn’t we get Maroth?

By Chop Chick | Friday, June 22, 2007, 02:17 PM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Found this interesting tidbit out of Detroit while cruising the Freep for Tigers news and I don’t know about you, my fellow Braves fans, but I want to know why WE didn’t pull the trigger on getting lefty starter Mike Maroth?

The last time we made a deal with Detroit for a pitcher, we only ended up with a kid named John Smoltz. And that worked out OK.

Check this from the ESPN article. You’re telling me that JS couldn’t pull THIS off?

“It is not yet known what the Tigers are getting in return for Maroth…”

Excuse me? The Stripes forked over a lefty who, according to the article “is 5-2 in 13 starts with a 5.06 ERA this season. Maroth has a career 50-62 record and 4.81 ERA over six major-league seasons, all with the Tigers” for a player to be named later. And the Braves now don’t have THAT sort of MLB clout? Good God.

OK, so Maroth might not have been the answer to the Tomahawks’ woes but he’s got a serviceable arm, he’s a lefty and he was out there for the wheeler-dealing.

And now he’s a Cardinal. Us? We’re still pitching-thin.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/bravesfans/entries/2007/06/22/why_didnt_we_ge.html

Yeah, I listened to Knobler as well. He made some good points about how Maroth was 5-2, but that's only because our offense has been amazing. He still has a very high ERA, and rarely went late into games either. They had to use RP to get to the setup guys (which don't even exist). He thinks he'll probably be a little better in the NL, but not a whole lot. he's basically a 4th or 5th starter, which we don't need. Other teams do, and he'll provide that.

It's all Kenny's fault that Maroth got traded today.

:emo kid:

I hope Kenny at least throws a few pinetar balls tonight in Mike's honor.

Actually, it's Maroth's fault, and also Nate. If either of those had pitched better the last couple years we might not have drafted Miller, or all these other pitchers.

Don't know if they changed the rules recently or not, but a player to be named later is often a recent draftee as well. Players cannot be traded until one year after they are signed out of the draft, so often the "player to be named" is already decided upon but he can't be named or change hands until the year passes. This is how we got Jeremy Bonderman in the Weaver deal. Don't get your hopes up because Maroth has nowhere near the value that Weaver had but it could end up being an OK prospect in the long run.

I'm hoping for a decent positional prospect. Maybe a catcher or left side infielder.

Another detail about the player to be named later, from the team site:

It creates a roster spot that allows Kenny to step into the rotation, and then we'll get a player to be named later that we consider a prospect."

That player will come from a list the Tigers and Cardinals agreed upon to finalize Friday's deal. The Tigers will scout the players and make their choice no later than Sept. 15.


I like that. I'm not sure how many players are on the list, but if Dombrowski says it's someone he considers a prospect and the team gets the final say after 3 months of scouting the guys, it could end up being a pretty decent guy after all.

EDIT: NVM.

Well, they did say Bonderman was a "player to be named later" in the deal that we got him in. Not sure if their recent draft picks are on the approved list or not though.

Given the fact that the Tigers are using the next few months to scout these players more, I think it would be highly unlikely that one of the drafted players would be there, considering it will be a while before most of them sign a contract anyhow.

Actually, I came up with a list of 17 prospects in their organization I would like. I'm not sure how they rank in terms of the organizations top prospects, but it's guys putting up numbers right now that I like. I have them in alphabetical order. It will be interesting to see if anyone from this list ends up being the guy they get.
Bryan Anderson C AA
Brandon Buckman 1B low A (Midwest league)
Eddie Degerman SP low A
Brad Furnish SP low A
Jamie Garcia SP AA
Luke Gregerson RP high A (FSL)
Mark Hamilton 1B high A
Tyler Herron SP low A
Jarrett Hoffpauir 2B AA
Ryan Ludwick OF AAA
Kenneth Maigues RP low A
Joe Mather 1B AA
Adam Ottavino SP high A
Christopher Perez RP AA
Matthew Scherer RP AA
Jared Schweitzer 2B low A
PJ Walters SP low A

A little more on how I came up with this list. I looked at the stats for these guys based strictly on this year. With a position player I looked for plate discipline. Low strikeout totals and decent BA (I think the lowest was .270). I didn't pay too much attention to power numbers. As for the pitchers, I didn't pay attention to wins and losses. I was looking at K/9, ERA and WHIP. Call it my own personal money ball approach, but I think the guys on this list have the best chance to advance and contribute in the majors, possibly even within the next year or two. By the way, I could go back in and add it but I have no clue with any of these guys if they're righty or lefty.

I have nothing to add except that I appreciate the work that went into this.

I am awed by it.

Summer vacation?

Yeah, pretty much. I'm considering beefing it up a bit and adding things like right left or switch, and possibly age. If I divide pitchers from hitters I could do maybe 2-4 stats areas. If anyone would like me to do that, put in the request and give me some specifics. I won't put in the work if it's not something you're completely interested in, but if you are it's probably not way too much to ask. I might need to put it in Excel and send it to someone that can format it all pretty. I would likely send it to Glenn and he could do it or pass it along. So, again, if you're interested just post what stats you would like included and try to limit it to 4 or less areas.

BTW, two points.
#1 - I think someone here, maybe Vinny, knows how to access the list of their top 10 prospects. That may be through baseball america.

#2 - Maroth makes his Cardinals debut tonight against the Mets. I'm going to cheer for the guy. He's a class act and I wish him the best. Most guys that lose 21 games and then miss the one shot to go to the World Series would have plenty to be bitter about, but I've heard nothing but great things about how he handled the situation.

sad to see him go cuz he seemed like a nice guy and deserved to enjoy a quality season after grinding through 119 losses and then missing last year. but he's small patatos. your 5th starter is irrelevent.

Ok, one more note on my list. Take Ludwick off. Not only was he in the Tigers organization last season, but he's actually with the big league club now in St. Louis. I found a few other corrections that need to be made for organizational level of some of these guys. The majority of their stats were accumulated at the level I listed, but 3 or 4 others have moved up a level. I can include those if I submit a more detailed list. I'll try to get stats that include all levels. I now have ages (as of today) and R/L (throwing arm for pitchers, batting for position players).

I'd like to avoid SP and OF prospects since we have plenty of those. I wouldn't mind a 1B prospect since Texiera is a pipe dream and I'm not sure Thames has the defensive ability to be a full time 1B (hope he develops them). 3B prospect would be nice too, since Inge is more of a utility player anyway.

I'd like to avoid SP and OF prospects since we have plenty of those. I wouldn't mind a 1B prospect since Texiera is a pipe dream and I'm not sure Thames has the defensive ability to be a full time 1B (hope he develops them). 3B prospect would be nice too, since Inge is more of a utility player anyway.

The only OF prospect that was there was Ludwick, and I'm removing him.

As for SP, I think they might still go after that for a couple reasons. First, keep in mind that Zumaya was a SP in the minors and we all want him to be the closer of the future. A SP prospect, especially the ones I've listed, can become the next great setup guy. If not, SP prospects are nice to have plenty of because they are good for trading. One of these guys could be considered a mid-level prospect right now. If he stays in our system until the trade deadline next year, he may be a top prospect by that time and might be crucial in landing a difference maker.

http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/595119.html

Thanks for the link Vinny. Having checked it out, it appears only 6 of the 16 guys (because I've removed Ludwick) are ranked. 3 are in the top 5, which makes me think they're off limits. Another is #8, one is #18, and one is #32. I imagine the guy who is #32 may be available, and all the guys that aren't ranked may be as well, but the 5 in the top 18 probably aren't.
It's interesting to me that I didn't pick out more of the top 40. Either they're having rough seasons, or I didn't see them at all (I didn't look in rookie league or class A short season).

Between this list of 40 and the 10 not on the list, that makes 50 guys. Needless to say, if it ends up being someone outside of those 50 names, I'm likely to be upset.

Upset with good reason. I know we're not getting a top 20 talent, but I would hope it would at least be someone between 20 and 50. Otherwise we just gave Maroth away for nothing.

Upset with good reason. I know we're not getting a top 20 talent, but I would hope it would at least be someone between 20 and 50. Otherwise we just gave Maroth away for nothing.

keep in mind we got sheffield (worth alot more than maroth) for basically humberto S., who will miss this entire season due for injury. what do you think his chances of becoming an impact player are?

its a crap shoot. and i really dont think maroth was worth much, anyway.

It was Sanchez and two guys that had been chosen within our first 7 picks in the draft the year before, if I remember correctly.
Based on how Sheff has played I would do that deal again in a heartbeat, but I think it could be 10 or more years before we can actually close the book on what the real value was for the Yankees, and it may not be about Sanchez. Just sayin.

It was Sanchez and two guys that had been chosen within our first 7 picks in the draft the year before, if I remember correctly.
Based on how Sheff has played I would do that deal again in a heartbeat, but I think it could be 10 or more years before we can actually close the book on what the real value was for the Yankees, and it may not be about Sanchez. Just sayin.

right. and same deal w/ the maroth trade. there are very few cant miss prospects. no one we were getting back for maroth would be. doesnt mean what we end up getting will be crap either, though.

my point is i wouldnt get to hung up on getting a higher rated prospect. 1) we have great scouting that i have faith in to find a diamond in the rough 2) its a crapshoot.

the overall point is that mike maroth is a nice guy but not a special pitcher. the term is fungibility. and hes got plenty of it.

the term is fungibility. and hes got plenty of it.

Is that the same as having Athlete's Foot?

yes.

Lola Damoan comin’ through with an ill crew

We Fifty bitches deep and we grownin’ like mildew

Matt (Cambridge, MA): Kevin -- Any word of which prospects (if any) are on the PTNBL list for the Cardinals in the Maroth trade?
Kevin Goldstein: I have not seen the lists, but somebody close to the deal said "it ain't much." (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=320)

The Tigers have until Sept. 15 to choose from a list of three Cardinals pitchers, at least one of whom is on the 40-man roster. The Cardinals also assumed the balance of Maroth's $2.95 million salary.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/8F04A86218AFF72E862573030014038B?OpenDocument

ROCKED.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=270719115

OUCH!

Wow. His last outing he gave up 8 runs (6 earned) through 5, now 10 through 5? That's a pretty rough back-to-back.

Meanwhile, St. Louis found out today that Carpenter is going to have Tommy John surgery. That means they pretty much have to ride it out with Maroth, who has yet to win a game for them so far.

w/ SL maroth has allowed 28 runs in 25 innings and is 0-3. dombroski is a goddamn prodigy.

No one said the Devil wouldn't fuck with you even if he took your soul for a World Series.

I think we're going to end up with Willie McGee, now.

St. Louis Cardinals
Placed LHP Mike Maroth on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to Aug. 5, with left elbow tendinitis

Here he is folks. Absolutly awful this year, but has a great pedigree. BBA was very high on him to begin the season:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Lambert&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=461836

If he can fog a mirror, he's probably better than Maroth.





Also, maybe we can re-sign Maroth after the Cards cut him

6'1? He's like a boy among men in our lineup.

None of those stats looked very promising....

Who knows... a change of scenery does wonders for some.