http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/release_061507.html

Carlos Delfino was picked 25th overall in the 2003 Draft. (NBAE/Getty Images)
(June 15, 2007) -- The Toronto Raptors announced Friday they have acquired guard Carlos Delfino from the Detroit Pistons in exchange for a second-round draft pick in 2009 and 2011.

Delfino, 6-foot-6, 230 pounds, was a first-round selection (25th overall) by the Pistons in 2003. The native of Argentina saw action in all 82 regular season games last season, posting career highs in points (5.2), rebounds (3.2) and minutes (16.8). He scored in double figures 13 times with a season-best 16 points in a season-high 30 minutes December 27 at New York. He had a season-high seven rebounds on seven occasions and a season-best seven assists at Atlanta on January 12. He appeared in all 16 of Detroit’s postseason contests, averaging 2.3 points, 1.3 rebounds and 8.4 minutes.

“Carlos is a talented basketball player that should thrive in our system,” said Raptors President and General Manager Bryan Colangelo. “Like many international players that come to the league, he has much more professional experience than his NBA resume suggests.”

Delfino has averaged 4.4 points, 2.4 rebounds and 14.2 minutes in 180 career NBA regular season games. Prior to joining the Pistons, he played four seasons (2000-04) in Italy. He spent 2000-02 with Reggio Calabria and 2002-04 as a member of Skipper Bologna. He averaged 10.7 points, 4.6 rebounds and 25.6 minutes in 115 career games in Italy.

Delfino was a member of the Gold Medal winning Argentina National Team at the 2004 Olympics in Athens, Greece. He also played for the Argentina National Team along with Manu Ginobili (San Antonio), Andres Nocioni (Chicago), Fabricio Oberto (San Antonio) and Walter Hermann (Charlotte) at the 2006 FIBA World Championships in Japan.


What a weird trade

Bye Bye Delfino, We Hardly Knew Ya

Delfino will thrive with the Raptors.

We will high five ourselves into oblivion.

Delfino will come alive for the Raptors.

We will jive ourselves into thinking it's good.

Bye, bye Delfino.....


.....hello Grant Hill?

I think it's a good deal for both parties. Delfino will play well in the open, Raptors style. they'll probably throw him in the mix and see what they got. in the open court, he should show his skills. I'm still convinced that Delfino can play well and contribute, especially on this young Raptors team. I'll be watching more Raptors games to see if i was right.

for us, i'm thinking this means Joe D's got his sights set on drafting a SG/SF or he may have an inclination that Hill's leaning towards Detroit.

OMG!........WTF?..........IMO, we gave him away too cheap. Joe, I'm losing faith in you. You better do something impressive this off-season. Stern and his crew have done enough to damage my feelings towards the NBA. Don't you do the same to the Pistons.

OMG!........WTF?..........IMO, we gave him away too cheap. Joe, I'm losing faith in you. You better do something impressive this off-season. Stern and his crew have done enough to damage my feelings towards the NBA. Don't you do the same to the Pistons.

thats how i feel too... i mean am i the only one who thought Darko and Delfino were worth a bit more than that? Joe D is giving away free presents, two 2nd round picks in 09 and 10 is like here you go i dont want anything from you, just take him...and he played ok this season, nothing spectacular, but he was solid, i dont get it why Joe D just would give him away for nothing....i am pretty dissapointed if we dont get Grant or sth...pretty shitty way to start the offseason if you ask me

btw: now i know why Joe didnt mention Delfino beeing one of the young guys at the last radio interview, remember 3rd year in the league, make or break...still i think Delf was doing ok

He was worth a lottery-protected 1st rounder in a future draft.

We were more likely to be able to use Delfino to trade up in this draft than 2 future 2nd round picks. <groan>

2- 2nd rounders.....thats what hes worth Joe!!! Delfino was my boy, and i really hope that he gets some PT in Toronto. My avatar is now pointless, and this really just is making me even more angry at the pistons season. This was by far the worst senario for me as far as offseason moves. Perhaps now we can play the starters a little more now WOOHOO!!!

Well, that experiment is over.

Another Tony Ronzone special.

That said, Joe didn't get enough in return, 2nd round picks are garbage unless they are higher than #40, IMO.

This also might be Joe's way of clearing a roster spot for Alex Acker.

Also, is it just me or did it always seem like Delfino was bound to end up a Raptor?

way to go to improve our overall talent level...Delfino was arguably our 2nd best bench player after Dice, sure he was not gonna challenge Tay or RIP for a starter spot(which Amir could at least talentwise), but he was a solid bench player...at least it seems Amir will really get a chance to backup Tay

Delf could be a good fit for Toronto, he's better than Graham for sure...they got a cheap SG for a year and about 10 mil cap in 08 i think, Colangelo is just a really good GM

its not thats its a 2nd rounder..its a 2nd rounder 2 and 4 years from now!!


ok i lied, it is about a 2nd rounder

It's a bad deal when you give up a rotation player with a reasonable contract for two future players that might never even make the roster.

But we saved $1.8m (or $3.6m, or whatever)!

But we saved $1.8m (or $3.6m, or whatever)!
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/0/07/GEICO_Logo.jpg

Joe Dumars is crumbling to pieces for flip. Unfortunately I'm sorry but he did Delfino a favor. Flip is an idiot and has no respect for the idea of defense or players who make that their specialty. Doesn't know how to put the right guys in the right spots either. Good for Delfino, and shitty trade by Joe D... My opinion of the guy is lowering at the moment. His dedication to Flip is disgusting enough to vomit at. But whatever. I'm glad we set Delfino free.


Dumars has only one option at this point. Go for broke and get that bench full of starters I spoke of with the defensively strong center, or get ready to look like Matt millen over the next couple years as he brings this ship to a harsh crash and burn..

I am going to give Joe D the benefit of the doubt on this one, but it is definitely a head scratcher. This was Delfino's best season IMO, where he finally accepted a reduced role and had stints where he looked very decent. This trade has the potential to really hurt us. I know that we are close to the cap and need our space. This move only makes sense to me if we clear enough room to add someone with the MLE now, like Grant or someone else.

This doesn't exactly fit his interview of us getting younger and more athletic. For now I give Joe D the benefit of the doubt. But that leash of trust is getting shorter.

Definitely a head scratching move, maybe Delfino asked out and Joe got the best he could for him?

What a fucking story to wake up to. I think I just threw up a little.

If this is any inclination as to what our offseason is going to be like, I'm going to be really fucking disappointed...


Joe Dumars is crumbling to pieces for flip. Unfortunately I'm sorry but he did Delfino a favor. Flip is an idiot and has no respect for the idea of defense or players who make that their specialty. Doesn't know how to put the right guys in the right spots either. Good for Delfino, and shitty trade by Joe D... My opinion of the guy is lowering at the moment. His dedication to Flip is disgusting enough to vomit at.
exactly

fak. There goes our chance of moving up without giving both our pikcs up. There goes our chance of getting any value. We get nothing in return...

best of luck to FINO as I'm sure he'll be getting good minutes in Toronto.[smilie=blaha.gif]

The only thing that I can think of is that Joe now believes Acker is ready to contribute.

If this is the case, then joe D said the next best thing we could get was cap space, and a couple picks. Probably few teams wanted to get him without offering a salary in return.

If Dumars somehow can turn Amir and Acker into players, then I don't in the least bit fault him for getting those two second rounders, since apparently we do well with them. I am starting to wonder if we do better with seconds than we do with firsts.

This makes us awful thin really everywhere now. We are thing at C, we have no true SF to backup Tay, and that has worked out so well for us. We now have a 2005 last pick in the draft not in the NBA player as our backup SG, and if Hunter retires, no real player at backup PG. A lot of holes to fill. Why Joe D didn't get just one second this year at least is beyond me.

Beat me up if you want but I want guys that are going to be starters(the young guys), he was not going to be a starter on our team. He couldn't move the guy in front of him out of the way.

I know he was good and really had some good games but this is not something that concerns me. Granted, I don't follow the NBA like some of y'all though.

I thought for SURE we'd have been able to trade Delfino for Kobe.

And if not Kobe then Garnett at least.

wow, remember when Joe dumars was a good GM? I barely do. the last time I saw that guy was, hmm, when jason maxiell got drafted.

So glad he got rid of this fucking mess. Delfino had one foot out the door LAST YEAR....

There better be something else in the mix. Here's hoping...

This has to be a cap clearning move nothing else, which is why he didn't want a pick this year. I'm sad that was all we could get a for a former 25 pick, but I'd already came to the conclusion that he's never going to be more than a 7-8 (with a buncha minutes) point scorer on a good team and that's not good enough. There's better talent out there. Joe seriously needs to stop listening to Ronzone.

He's clearing up space for Jonathan Bender.

i've always had a lot of faith in joe. but this move sucks no matter how i look at it.

i accept that he was trying to free up a roster spot. i accept that we might want to make room for amir to possibly play some SF, which delfino was also playing. i accept that he is entering the last year of his deal. and i accept that we have two 1st rounders to work with to replace or possibly upgrade over him.

but that does not mean you trade him away for a sack of marbles. those 2nd rounders are going to be in the middle or late 2nd round. and they are UNKNOWNS. with delfino, we know the talent we have.

he was our ONLY guy on the roster who could legitimately take people off the dribble and finish explosively around the rim. granted, he was not being used this way as much as he should've been, but still.

i was expecting a breakout year from him this season coming up. he has all the talent. moreover, he has great intangibles that we need- he always brings hustle and energy. he seems to find every loose ball and makes plays happen for his teammates.

his biggest weakness was the fact he hadn't earned enough respect from the refs to avoid foul troubles. his shot was inconsistent but improving. and as the playoffs showed- we NEED athletes who can drive to the hoop or get to the line. or guys who can finish on the break.

now we have nobody who does that. if we wanted to trade him, IF we wanted to be rid of him, why not package him in a better deal for us?

why give him away for nothing?

i'm digusted. we had better hit gold with both first rounders. i fear we're in denial about how much this roster really needs upgrading.

we just traded one of our only young athletic talents- just the thing we should be looking to ADD!!!!!!!!!!!

This has to be a cap clearning move nothing else, which is why he didn't want a pick this year. I'm sad that was all we could get a for a former 25 pick, but I'd already came to the conclusion that he's never going to be more than a 7-8 (with a buncha minutes) point scorer on a good team and that's not good enough. There's better talent out there. Joe seriously needs to stop listening to Ronzone.
In fairness to Ronzone -- before Delfino's knee wigged out a month in his rookie season, he was getting a consistent 15-20 minutes from LB, shot 44%, and his defense was a work in progress but it was clear he was working on it. He had a couple Sportscenter plays already and his biggest issue was TOs from palming.

I suspect Delfino is gonna pull a Bob Sura and kick ass until he gets hurt again.

Dude bob sura put up triple doubles like it was nothing.

Should have gotten him for a 1st rounder at least. I always liked Delfino and considering what Dumars has said in the last week I thought he was going to get some play this coming year. Sucky trade.

or we coulda have avoided this whole scenario and drafted joshy ho

or we coulda have avoided this whole scenario and drafted joshy ho
or Barbosa?

A couple of opinion pieces on the Delfino deal.

:mccosky:


On trading Carlos

You know, it never fails. If I try to take a day off, something happens. Joe Dumars must have me under surveillance. I was at DTE Energy with my daughter and middle son, celebrating his 19th birthday at a very fine Barenaked Ladies concert when I got the call about Carlos Delfino being traded. Embarrassing because just an hour earlier I was on the Stoney & Wojo show talking about how Delfino had been a bust and that if the Pistons got Grant Hill back, Delfino would be gone. Little did I know.

There will be a lot of talk about how the Pistons gave Delfino away. Two second round picks (2009 and 2011) from the Raptors is the equivalent of a side of Canadian Bacon. But let me ask you this: Would you trade Delfino for Grant Hill? Sure you would, and that's what the Delfino trade does. It clears room for the possibility of Hill being re-signed. The Pistons had to create a roster spot and some salary space. They have effectively done that. Now they have to win the recruiting battle for Hill. Phoenix is very much in the mix right now. I am liking more and more the idea of Hill and Antonio McDyess coming off the bench next season. Hill can backup all three perimeter positions. He's older, sure, but he made it through a full season and, as we saw, he was brilliant at times. Playing 20 to 25 minutes a night will be perfect for him.

Listen, Dumars made it very clear at his post-season address that the core unit wasn't going to play 40 minutes a night any more. Minutes were going to be trimmed so that intensity levels wouldn't wane or waver throughout the season. To do that, the bench has to be fortified. Delfino will go to his grave complaining that the Pistons never gave him a chance. I disagree. He had more chances than a lot of guys get. At some point, you have to produce. I really liked Carlos and I thought he had the kind of skill set (aggressive, slashing open-court player) the Pistons need. But he never sustained a high level of production. And when he continually shrunk as the playoffs went on, you knew he had to go. He will fit in better with the United Nations Raptors. He will be more comfortable and he might produce more. He could hardly produce less. Whatever he might do up there won't change the reality that nothing was going to happen for him here. If the Pistons can exchange Delfino for Hill, that's a major upgrade.

On another matter, I have also heard people say that this trade makes room for Amir Johnson. Not really. Though the Pistons tried to turn Johnson into a small forward, it didn't work. The consensus in the organization now is that Johnson has to be a power forward. He's just not comfortable out on the perimeter. Whatever role Johnson earns next season will be in the front court. And I am telling you, there is a major division within the organization about Johnson's future. Joe Dumars and John Hammond believe the kid could be something very special. Some on the coaching staff believe he will never be more than an end of the bench reserve. Coach Flip Saunders has steadfastly refused to make any final determination, giving the 20-year-old ample time to mature. But Johnson has to get stronger. He has to get tougher and he has to start showing some court judgment. He still relies on his inate athleticism to get him through. He forgets plays and assignments. He has enough physical tools to make an impact. But he has to learn how to play the game -- otherwise, he could end up like Rodney White.


:langlois:

Adios, Carlos
by Keith Langlois

The Pistons made their first move of the off-season Friday, shipping Carlos Delfino to Toronto in exchange for second-round picks in the 2009 and 2011 NBA drafts.

The move clears almost $2 million in room under the NBA’s salary cap and would appear to make it even more likely that the Pistons will have a roster spot available for Alex Acker, a 2005 second-round draft choice who spent last season in Greece after playing his rookie year with the Pistons.

There is also a very good possibility that the Pistons will draft a perimeter player with the 15th pick of the June 28 draft, given the way the draft is shaping up. Among the possibilities there are small forwards Al Thornton of Florida State and Thaddeus Young of Georgia Tech, shooting guard Nick Young of Southern Cal and combo guard Rodney Stuckey of Eastern Washington – all players who would have competed with Delfino for playing time.

“We appreciate everything Carlos did for us while he was here,” Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars said, “and we wish him all the best with Toronto.”

Delfino, a native of Argentina, was drafted 25th overall in the 2003 draft, but spent the following season playing for Skipper Bologna of the Italian league before joining the Pistons the next year. Two knee injuries limited his contributions and Delfino wasn’t on the active roster for the playoffs as the Pistons went to the NBA Finals.

He played in all 82 games for the Pistons this past season as the principle backup to both Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton, averaging career bests of 5.2 points, 3.2 rebounds and 16.8 minutes. But Delfino struggled to find his niche. He shot just 33 percent from the 3-point arc and 41 percent overall and never quite harnessed his ability to put the ball on the floor and get to the basket, frequently drawing charging fouls.

In Toronto, Delfino will join a team with a heavy international flavor that includes Spainiards Jose Calderon and Jorge Garbajosa, Italian Andrea Bargnani and Slovenians Rasho Nesterovic and Uros Slokar.

“Carlos is a talented basketball player that should thrive in our system,” Raptors president and GM Bryan Colangelo said. “Like many international players that come to the league, he has much more professional experience than his NBA resume suggests.”

Delfino was a member of Argentina’s gold medal basketball team at the 2004 Olympics and played a more prominent role in the 2006 national team that got to the semifinals of the World Championships.

In fairness to Ronzone -- before Delfino's knee wigged out a month in his rookie season, he was getting a consistent 15-20 minutes from LB, shot 44%, and his defense was a work in progress but it was clear he was working on it. He had a couple Sportscenter plays already and his biggest issue was TOs from palming.

I suspect Delfino is gonna pull a Bob Sura and kick ass until he gets hurt again.
Or not get hurt. I just think the Flip Regime and him never mixed. I disagree with Varsity, i think he can be a 10-13 ppg guy. But not in any offense we run. Either way I think its the only move we could make as far as Delfino is concerned since Dumars is keeping that fag ass saunders.

I hate to do this, hindsight is 20/20, but guys drafted after Delfino
Kendrick Perkins
Leandro Barbosa
Josh Howard
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Steve Blake
Willie Green
Zaza Pachulia
Keith Bogans
Matt Bonner
Mo Williams (damn)
James Jones
Kyle Korver
Andreas Glyniadakis (had to do it)

You could build a team just off the guys after Delfino

I hate to do this, hindsight is 20/20, but guys drafted after Delfino
Kendrick Perkins
Leandro Barbosa
Josh Howard
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Steve Blake
Willie Green
Zaza Pachulia
Keith Bogans
Matt Bonner
Mo Williams (damn)
James Jones
Kyle Korver
Andreas Glyniadakis (had to do it)

You could build a team just off the guys after Delfino

Kirk Hinrich
Dwayne Wade
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Chris Kaman

You could build an NBA Finals team just off the guys after Darko.

I win.

[smilie=peepwall.gi:

yea what if picks are a joke. we coulda had everybody amazing at some point in every pick. Some teams coulda had Tay. Boston coulda had t-mac or put faith in billups. Unless crystal balls are taking over, it means less than nothing.

You gotta admit, that 2nd round was amazing.

I always loved Delfino. I just never thought we used him correctly. I really hope he does amazing in Toronto and proves everyone wrong. He's a hard worker and he's willing to do all the little things. He's exactly the kind of guy I'd want on my team. Young, athletic, hard working.

Am I the only one that really could care less about Delfino not being on the team next year. The only plus in his game is his youth. His shot is inconsistent. His slashing is good but tough to watch at times. His defense and steals are completely predicated on gambling. He has constantly been a whiner every offseason basically demanding PT instead of earning it. I mean, how can you people expect a first round pick for a guy who never really could make an impact here? Cut your losses, move on, and bring in G Hill. Some of your Delfino Mancrushes make me sick. The guy showed NOTHING!

Some of your Delfino Mancrushes make me sick. The guy showed NOTHING!
Thats your opinion of his play. But I think you're pretty off if you think his defense was all gamble. His rebounding, defense, and hustle were pretty solid imo. His offense wasn't consistent, but again we were trying to turn a passer/facilitator into a scorer. Just like we try to turn Flip murray into a Point Guard. Neither was a smart move and we got our just desserts for being so stubbornly stupid with this egg head coach at the helm. I think the trades good and that we have to field a bench full of all stars in order to force flip to play the bench. who am i kidding? he'll still fuck up the rotations and positions of where he wants his players.

I don't see it as a loss. I guess we all expected him to be Manu and he turned out to be an inconsistent backup.

Seeing the forest for the trees
Carlos had enough PT to make an impact... he didn't
He likely asked to be moved... we woulda lost him for nothing after next year anyways.... he never showed that he was worth a 1st rounder in a trade... at least we got something.
We can now add someone that will be more than a once in a while asset.
Our perimiter shooting should improve... which opens up the paint.
Maybe we get someone that can actually finish a drive inside.
Joe drafts better in the 2nd round anyways :^)

I didn't expect Manu, I just expected him to be used the right way. Part of that could be his fault. Maybe he was given chances and just didn't take them, we may not know. But either way, I thought we could do better than a late 2009 2nd rounder and a late 2011 second rounder. I could shit in a Crown Royal bag and drop it on JoeD's desk and it would have as much use as those two picks.

Seeing the forest for the trees
Carlos had enough PT to make an impact... he didn't
You mean he didnt score enough? because again I still think he was solid as a rebounder, passer, and defensively all year. But because most people look at scoring for an answer, you miss out on the rest. Thats actually cool though. Not required to care about the other stuff as fans. But when the coach doesnt notice or put him in spots to use his strengths rather than weaknesses. PT will be always be irrelevant.

I don't care if he's on the team either Jick. I know some really liked him. I liked his potential early on, but he woudn't have been a starter, imo.

With that said, I think some are just pissed about what we got for him. And I buy that argument a helluva lot more than he was the next coming of Michael Jordan if he only got the playing time.

his D and hustle was solid from the games I have seen. Yes his offense was inconsistent but he was learning the 3 ball and if he hit that, he would be a weapon off the bench. I'm just mad that we got him for nothing...absolutely nothing. This offseason, we could have used him to package him with other players/picks.

I think Joe D was rushed? No need to trade Delfino this quickly into the offseason, unless Delfino asked right away. Maybe Joe did guarantee Stuckey the 15th pick.

I thought Delfino had potential, but after the sucky way his knee injury was handled, I wasn't opposed to him being traded for:

- someone else at the position we want to play him
- bumping up our draft position this year
- a lottery-protected future 1st rounder, perhaps

Two 2nd rounders doesn't qualify as any of the above.

I haven't read most of the posts in this thread because 48 posts about Carlos Delfino would make me suicidal.
However, doesn't Joe have a better record drafting 2nd rounders than 1st rounders? Okur, Amir Johnson, the rights the Cheik Samb, Glynidiakadisopolis vs Darko and Delfino.

Well his first rounders are pretty good too, Jmax, Tay. Of course we had Rodney White and Cleaves....

Whenever he tried to dribble, it ended with a palming violation; whenever he went up for a jump shot or attempted free throw, he bricked; whenever he attacked the basket, his shot was blocked. A mediocre defender and passer.....below average at everything else. Most in the NBA hustle, so that shouldn't even be used in Delfino's favor.

The manlove for such a piece of crap is unbelievable. I haven't seen this much undeserved jockslurping since Mike McMahon was here. Carlos Delfino is BY FAR the worst Argentinian to ever step foot on an NBA court, and he was the highest drafted ever.

Thank you Joe D for taking out the trash. Unfortunately, we got trash back.

We couldn't even get Anthony Parker out of this? Damn.

My first reaction was mad that they didn't get a first rounder for him. Then I thought about it some more. What has he shown? He's shown that he's a pretty good defender, but not against bigger SF's. He's shown an ability to slash to the hoop, when he feels like it. He's also shown that he plays lethargic most of the time and just stands around waiting for something to happen. he does almost nothing when the ball is not in his hands, and he cannot hit an open three pointer to save his life some times. Look at Eric Snow in the ECF. Does Delfino really provide anything more than Snow did? Not really. In fact Snow was even more active on defense.

I used to defend Delfino. I saw his potential and thought he'd be a Manu type of player some day (with better defense too). Never happened. Just like Darko, he never showed passion for the game. He never looked like he wanted to improve at all. It was time to part ways. We only had him for another year anyway, and you know he would have left thinking he deserves starter minutes.

Now we can use his 2 mil on Hill, and get two more chances on finding Amir, Redd, Arenas, etc. Yes, most of those picks don't pan out. But if we were in fact going to add Hill, Mo Pete, or another wing to the mix...then what was Delfino going to be here? He'd play 10 minutes a game, sulk, and do nothing until his contract was up. Might as well get something for him.

Sure, I'd like to get more...but I'm not upset with what we did get. I'd rather get something than nothing, and also miss out on Hill in the process.

And I still don't want to use #15 on a wing either (unless neither Hill or Mo Pete come). Backup swing players are easy to find.

Since Phoenix is worried about going over the cap and has three 1sts that they want to unload at lest one of, I wonder if they would be interested in the two Delfino 2nds and the Minny 2nd for #29? This way they have trade pieces and don't have to pay another player.

I bet they'd be open to trading a first for seconds, but they don't have 3 firsts. They didn't get Atlanta's pick because it was top 3. I'd trade #57 and the Delfino 2nd's for #29 though. #29 would get us a nice backup swingman like Derrick Byers or Tucker. Or it could get us a backup center like Gray or Visser if we grap a swingman at #15.

After a few days of looking at the trade one thing now concerns me. (Besides the fact that we got rid of a player for nothing) That this is my mind says no real trades are coming this offseason. Delfino was an expiring with a low contract that could have been packaged with a starter. If we were going to lose him thats the way to do it. I just dont get why you make this trade now....not like their this years picks anyhow. And if your freeing up a roster place for the love of god get Duprees ass outa here. My goodness I would have rather we cut his ass then trade a player for some future picks.

I agree that it is depressing.

It's a money move.

They'd rather get some draft picks that they don't have to pay right now than use Delfino (and other assets) to try and get a contributor back.

It looks like the mandate to avoid the tax if at all possible has been given.

If it is a cap space clearing deal, what are we clearing for? Billups wasn't enough to put us in tax level. We'd have to be using the full MLE or making a deal that adds salary for Delfino's 2 mil to matter.

Maybe its for kg~insert useless ridiculous kg trade idea here~

no, that would make it harder. Delfino would have been a good throw in for any deal.

Package both second round picks we received and both of this years picks for a shot at Oden? Throw in next years second we already had too. Keep this year's 2nd round pick and get a PG in the second round. Give Hill full MLE, and resign Billups. Oden=NBA title on our roster in this pathetically weak front line east conference.

Package both second round picks we received and both of this years picks for a shot at Oden? Throw in next years second we already had too. Keep this year's 2nd round pick and get a PG in the second round. Give Hill full MLE, and resign Billups. Oden=NBA title on our roster in this pathetically weak front line east conference.

..........

maybe we can get oden without giving up our first rounders. do you think 2 future second rounders would be enough?

..........

just more of the same from joe d. kind of putting the cart before the horse, arent we? what if hill doesnt sign here? i have no doubt he'll be replaced, likely through the draft, but an upgrade? i agree he hasnt shown much, but he did guard wade well at one point. i feel the same about this trade as with darko's. this is looking like its all about the $$$ yet again. i would have liked to have seen what he would have done with a consistent 20 mpg before i bled our empty bench even further. joe better not screw up this draft...

I sure hope Gutz wasn't serious. Either that or Detroit Don stole his log in id.

I wasn't. Because theres nothing we'd could give up to get Oden. But i am serious that he'd mean that much to our roster. The truth is that a center who can be defensively strong for you, will breeze you to the finals in the east if you got the right pieces around him. I don't think Flip believes that, therefore Dumars will probably overlook how Lebron dunked on us like we were a bunch of dummies waiting to get on his poster collection.

But it was a play on all trade ideas i see in here every summer. None of them happen and none of them will.

We have a better chance at getting KG than Oden, and getting KG will never happen. However, some of our deals are somewhat realistic. We could realistically get Kobe, even if it never happens. There is no chance to get Oden.

We have a better chance at getting KG than Oden, and getting KG will never happen. However, some of our deals are somewhat realistic. We could realistically get Kobe, even if it never happens. There is no chance to get Oden.
you're repeating what I said. :P lol...I agree that we arent ever getting oden and i've said kg will never happen for 3 straight summers. What I said was that we needed Oden or a player like him in the middle to have a shot at a title imho.

I'd never want Kobe here. Thats a regressive move imo. Especially if we give up sheed to get him. We'd get smaller and less team basketball orientated.

So you are saying we have no chance at a title.

Yeah, I'm not getting the "Oden or nothing" train of thought.

I'm not getting hung up on the "or a player like him" angle either, since nobody even knows who that might be.

I'm already starting to hate how overrated Oden is.

So you are saying we have no chance at a title.
nope, just not that great of one. I honestly believe we can't stop LBJ, DWade, or even daniel wackass gibson w/o some better defense in the middle.



Yeah, I'm not getting the "Oden or nothing" train of thought.

I'm not getting hung up on the "or a player like him" angle either, since nobody even knows who that might be.

I'm already starting to hate how overrated Oden is.

Not really about Oden, its about the position. I see a direct connection between our defense in the middle getting torched by every sg who goes to the hole and the lack of a strong defensive presence there. Dont make it an Oden thing. again we arent even in the ballpark of drafting him. so that part is meaningless. I'm merely speaking on attributes.

Kirk Hinrich
Dwayne Wade
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Chris Kaman

You could build an NBA Finals team just off the guys after Darko.

I win.

[smilie=peepwall.gi:

need to point out that this team wouldn't make it out of the second round in the west.

It all depends on the matchup.

A few Canadian opinions on the Delfino deal:

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/226974

DEFINE DELFINO: I don't know if Carlos Delfino can play a lick – and given his spotty three years in Detroit neither do you or anyone you know – but I do know this.

Bryan Colangelo made an excellent move to get him.

The cost was nothing, second-round picks in 2009 and 2011 are disposable, and he's weakened an Eastern Conference rival while potentially strengthening his own team.

Scouts, execs and coaches have raved about Delfino's raw talent since the deal was made but the big question is why he didn't do it consistently in Detroit.

To be sure, Larry Brown didn't do him any favours in his rookie year – the next time Brown trusts a rookie to do anything will be the first – but Delfino got a chance under Flip Saunders and never really took advantage of it.

The one thing he brings to the Raptors that they don't have, and really need, is an ability to get to the basket. None of their wing players were really slashers who could get to the basket and to the foul line and if he does that even a little, he's going to be valuable.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Sports/842253.html

Delfino welcomes fresh start
New Raptor languished on bench with Pistons

By DOUG SMITH Toronto Star

TORONTO — Carlos Delfino isn’t sure where he’s going to fit with the Raptors but wherever it is, it’ll be better than where he didn’t fit with the Detroit Pistons.

The 24-year-old guard-forward, obtained by Toronto last week for the bargain-basement price of two future second-round draft picks, figures a new start is just what his stalled NBA career needs.

"I need to change," the six-foot-six player said Monday. "I’m excited about this situation. I just can’t wait to start."

Delfino languished on the bench for almost his entire three years with the Pistons, never averaging more than 16.7 minutes per game. While he showed flashes in his time, being stuck behind Tayshaun Prince and his own inconsistency doomed him to deep backup status.

And when the Pistons needed to clear some financial room facing a summer in which they have to pay free agent Chauncey Billups and perhaps take a run at Grant Hill, the three-year veteran became expendable.

It couldn’t have come at a better time.

"I was stuck," he said. "I don’t blame anybody, I’m okay. I just want to move and move forward. I never got the chance, the opportunity to play."

Whether he gets the opportunity to play here is going to be entirely up to him. He’s got Anthony Parker and Jorge Garbajosa ahead of him on the depth chart at shooting guard and small forward right now but with the departure of Morris Peterson imminent, only the inconsistent Joey Graham and smallish Juan Dixon stand between Delfino and substantial playing time.

Even if general manager Bryan Colangelo lands a free-agent small forward on the free-agent market — and the Raptors have Hill squarely in their sights as well — there is a chance for Delfino to contribute.

"What I know is I’m excited," he said. "I’m motivated to work hard and try to be a starter. I think every (backup) player in this league is in the situation I am in."

Delfino’s situation is unique, however, in the style that he’s used to playing and the style the Raptors are trying to employ. A veteran of the Argentine national team for the past five seasons and a four-year veteran of the Italian league, he’s used to the international flavour that dominates the Raptors.

It’s one of the reasons that, when the trade happened, he was not sorry to leave Detroit.

"A couple of teams are playing a little more FIBA style and the Raptors are one of those teams," he said. "It was really exciting after the trade because Toronto was one of the best options if somebody asked me. A team that runs, many players who play FIBA already and it’s a young team, too. I find this an excellent opportunity to develop."

Yeah, he sure did weaken us by getting Carlos Delfino. Damn, of all the concerns losing him sure was the biggest.

Krista's article from the Freep today discloses that Delfino had his agent request the trade, and Toronto was their team of choice.

Who does Dumars work for?

Krista's article from the Freep today discloses that Delfino had his agent request the trade, and Toronto was their team of choice.

Who does Dumars work for?

Joe Dumars works for a very secretive syndicate of Argentinian "coffee growers" called "The Los Foundation". Their goal is to bring down the evil Detroit basketball empire by either having us overpay (like a 1st rd. pick for Arroyo) or give away (Delfino) Argentinian players to lower the teams worth in the hopes of someday buying the team and moving it to Argentina.

BUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, he sure did weaken us by getting Carlos Delfino. Damn, of all the concerns losing him sure was the biggest.

Well I think they meant, we are weakened because our bench is even more thin and now instead of "Flip Murray and Carlos Delfino" as our 2 and 3 backups, we now have "Flip Murray".

Joe Dumars works for a very secretive syndicate of Argentinian "coffee growers" called "The Los Foundation". Their goal is to bring down the evil Detroit basketball empire by either having us overpay (like a 1st rd. pick for Arroyo) or give away (Delfino) Argentinian players to lower the teams worth in the hopes of someday buying the team and moving it to Argentina.

BUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!


lol

I'm just getting sick of Joe playing Dudley Do-right when making trades (Arroyo to Orlando, Delfino to Toronto, etc).

If Toronto is the only team that Joe talked to just so he could honor Delfino's request than this situation is more fucked up that any of us even thought.

Don't be a hero Joe, get the best deal that you can and let the players be angry with you. You have plenty of other friends, I'm sure.

I'd like to give Joe more credit than this, but his recent track record has him losing the benefit of the doubt in my eyes.

Well, if Delfino did ask to be traded there I suspect he didn't just come out and say it. I think that during the exit interview with Delfino, Joe probably asked him how he feels about his role here. Delfino probably said he wants consistant minutes. joe probably said he isn't producing like he should when given them...and somehow Joe asked him what he wanted. That's when he said he'd like to be in a situation where he could play heavy minutes, I'm sure Joe asked where he thought he'd get that, etc.

I look at it this way. Obviously Delfino has not been happy with his role from basically his 2nd year here. He also hasn't produced well in his current role, at least not consistantly. I'm really not mad about dealing him at all as long as Joe felt that was the best he was going to get. If Delfino really asked to be traded there, Joe might not have had much of a leg to stand on if Delfino was going to be a malcontent if Joe traded him somewhere else.

Also keep in mind the Dudley Do right method helps attract guys here. Players like C Webb and possibly Mo Pete or Hill will play here for less because of Joe's professionalism. They know he won't hang them out to dry.

Players like C Webb and possibly Mo Pete or Hill will play here for less because of Joe's professionalism. They know he won't hang them out to dry.
Exactly.

Also, I'm sure Joe looked around to find fair market value for Delfino before shipping him to the Raptors. He probably found that the best he was going to get for him was some second round picks, so he went with the Raptors picks because it was about the best he could do and it kept the player happy.

I think that theory only goes so far.

They play here to WIN, not because Joe is a nice guy, IMO.

If Joe was a nice guy but we were a lottery team, those guys wouldn't return his calls. Sure it doesn't hurt that Joe is "nice" but if we were crap, they wouldn't care.

I'm sure Danny Ainge is a nice guy too.

And how do we know that MoPete and Hill will play here for less?

And what did Hill do for Joe in return for being so nice back in the day?

And what did Hill do for Joe in return for being so nice back in the day?
Joe was nice then, so Hill is willing to come back. If Joe had been a dick back then, Hill probably wouldn't consider playing for the Pistons, or at least he wouldn't have us as high on his list.

I contend that it's because we're a good team with appropriate playing time available to him that we're being considered.

Might Joe being nice put us over the top? Maybe.

But again, if we sucked and Joe was still nice, Hill wouldn't even consider us.

I agree with you on that. We have to be good to be considered. But Joe being a nice guy can make a player feel comfortable and give us the edge over other teams.

Joe Dumars works for a very secretive syndicate of Argentinian "coffee growers" called "The Los Foundation". Their goal is to bring down the evil Detroit basketball empire by either having us overpay (like a 1st rd. pick for Arroyo)
Based off Arroyo's performance to that point and relatively reasonable contract, a late 1st rounder wasn't overpaying. He sucked relative to his "yes, I'm a solid backup PG"-level performance in Utah and Orlando (though Dooling is a better backup PG fit because of yet-another-backup-PG's Jameer's lack of D). Arroyo never had a "hot streak" that gave Chauncey a break, and did more "dribble dribble dribble bad-pass/shot" shit with us than I ever saw with Orlando.

Joe confirms the importance of the $$ in the Delfino deal


Ford: Was Carlos Delfino an example of what you're looking to do to inconsistent players?

Dumars: For some players, they're just not going to fit in well here. It was like that with Darko. And then you move them somewhere else, and they play more consistently for whatever reason. But I'm not going to take shots at Delfino. The finances played a role, too, when you look at what we have to do this summer*.

*i.e. try to avoid the luxury tax

Based off Arroyo's performance to that point and relatively reasonable contract, a late 1st rounder wasn't overpaying. He sucked relative to his "yes, I'm a solid backup PG"-level performance in Utah and Orlando (though Dooling is a better backup PG fit because of yet-another-backup-PG's Jameer's lack of D). Arroyo never had a "hot streak" that gave Chauncey a break, and did more "dribble dribble dribble bad-pass/shot" shit with us than I ever saw with Orlando.

The fact that Arroyo went from starter to 3rd or 4th string in Utah should have said volumes. He made 3.5 mil which is not what I consider a reasonable contract for a back-up of questionable talent. Either way, what's done is done.

Joe confirms the importance of the $$ in the Delfino deal



*i.e. try to avoid the luxury tax

That probably means he is going to use the MLE.

The fact that Arroyo went from starter to 3rd or 4th string in Utah should have said volumes. He made 3.5 mil which is not what I consider a reasonable contract for a back-up of questionable talent. Either way, what's done is done.
Jerry Sloan went psycho that year, though. His wife died, and he did lots of screwy things even by Jerry Sloan standards. And, Arroyo was just coming off an injury. It looked like he could use a change of scenery, and JenkyHo wasn't gonna be the answer. Hindsight is, of course, 20/20, but I remember thinking "wow, this could be a nice little move". It seemed like the first bit of good news since the brawl. Boy, was I wrong...

Moving this back to the other Carlos, we had a choice of "extension" or "no extension" and Delfino hadn't done enough to warrant much of an extension and was probably gonna sandbag it if we kept him for only a year.

The Raptors may not have a first pick in the draft but they figure they already have made their selection. Colangelo views Carlos Delfino as a better player than any addition they might have drafted with the 22nd pick.

"He's an interesting piece for us," Colangelo said. "He's the same size (as Morris Peterson), a better defender, he'll get to the foul line more, and he's kind of a streaky shooter."

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Basketball/2007/06/27/4293638-sun.html