The question is bound to come up sooner or later. With the coaching turmoil and the constant struggle to get more of our younger players more PT.....do you think Joe Dumars could step in as coach in the next 5 years?

I could see Hammond, but not Joe.

Joe's smarter than that. If he takes an active hand, he'll still have a figurehead.

btw, one of the reasons i even mention this is because i was thinking about how this team full of veterans needs a coach they respect (ala Larry Brown). it seems like they'd respect Joe D calling the shots. he doesn't have the coaching credentials, but i think a guy like Sheed respects him enough.

i'm not seriously thinking Joe D should coach, just pondering whether it's a possibility.

Whenever a GM comes out and coaches, it seems to be more of a desperation move than anything else. After listening to the JoeD interview, he isn't panicking at all. He's bummed, but not panicking.

I think it'd be too much of a grind for him. He was in the NBA for a carreer and now wants to be involved but not where he has the every-day rigors(sp?) of travel, stress, etc.

I am cautiously optimistic that he will take a much more active role in what HE expects of his players next year. So he will be taking a minor coaching role. Like he said, its going to end up on his desk anyway, so he might as well get involved early on.

just my 2 cents

Its possible, but I don't think its likely at all. I'd rather see him stay up in suite. Besides, what have we seen that has shown us JoeD would be a good coach?

I voted never. I just don't see him as the motivator type. If Flip doesn't get this done I can definately see Laimbeer here though.

If Flip doesn't get this done I can definately see Laimbeer here though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/GlennDanzig/scream.jpg

Man, it's been a while.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/GlennDanzig/scream.jpg

Man, it's been a while.
You'd rather have Flip? ~asking~

It's old RGM schtick.

And yes Flip > Laimbeer.

Saying "Flip > anything" kind of stings.

It's old RGM schtick.

And yes Flip > Laimbeer.

Saying "Flip > anything" kind of stings.
Ok remember that we are talking HC, not playbook bs that any solid assistant coach can handle. Why would you take Flip over Lamb as a HC and game manager?

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/img/laimbeer.gif

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/05/sports/basketball/05wnba.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5070&en=957db4317528b5a5&ex=1181880000


AUBURN HILLS, Mich., June 1 — Practice was just under way for the Detroit Shock, defending champion of the Women’s National Basketball Association, and Coach Bill Laimbeer was not entirely happy with the conditioning drills. Few people will talk back to a man who is 6 feet 11 inches and always considers himself the smartest person in the room. This does not include Laimbeer’s assistant, Rick Mahorn, who is only an inch shorter and is often the funniest person in the room.

Bill Laimbeer often jokes with his players, but that can be offset by his withering candor.

“Zip it,” Mahorn barked at Laimbeer’s instructions on this day in late May, drawing his fingers across his own lips.

“I. ...”

“Zip it.”

Laimbeer said, “I can fine, suspend or fire you.”

Mahorn shot back, “I’ll walk out right now, and there’ll be a revolution.”

Smiles creased their faces. No blood, no foul.

The calendar has long turned the playing pages on Laimbeer, 50, who won N.B.A. titles with the Detroit Pistons in 1989 and 1990, and Mahorn, 48, who was on that first championship team. They now coach the daughter of one of their adversaries, Karl Malone. But if these aging Bad Boys have grown soft in the waist, they have lost nothing of the zinging sarcasm that informs their personalities and has made the Shock one of the most unorthodox and entertaining teams in organized sports.

The Bad Boys now coach the Bad Girls, who are aggressive in a way that Pistons fans of the late 1980s would find familiar — scuffling and relentless on defense, voracious on the boards. [Detroit is 4-0 heading into a game against the Liberty in New York on Friday.]

“Some players say we intimidate them, we’re bullies,” said forward Cheryl Ford, the league’s career rebounding leader and Malone’s daughter. “We can’t help it if we’re bigger and stronger than everybody else.”

In guiding the Shock to W.N.B.A. titles in 2003 and 2006 as the coach and general manager, Laimbeer has created a perpetual locker-room ambience. The idea is to deflate cliques and to let players be themselves while channeling their inner Bad Girls. Shock practices are full of mocking, teasing and casual profanity. Even the names of some inbounds plays are not suitable for children under 17. As long as it is not personal, anyone can say anything to anybody.

“It doesn’t bother us that our players have an edge to them,” Laimbeer said.

“Functionally dysfunctional,” is how the team spokesman John Maxwell jokingly refers to the Shock. In this environment, the versatile forward Swin Cash is called Crackhead by Mahorn for what he perceives as her occasional aimlessness. Fair game are Laimbeer’s style of walking (“On his toes, like the Flintstones,” guard Elaine Powell said.) and his favored wardrobe of short-shorts and boating shirts (“One of his pants are so tight they look like leg warmers,” Cash said).

During the preseason, guard Shannon Johnson had a stomach virus and pulled a blanket over her head to take a nap in the airport in Dallas. Big mistake. When she awakened, Mahorn and others had thrown a few bucks into a change cup and Johnson’s teammates had fashioned signs that said, “Will Shoot for Food” and “War Veteran — AWOL.”

At practice May 29, Laimbeer was seeking to name an inbounds play. Essentially, he was trying to get his players — especially Cash — to yell something outrageous or raunchy. This play, he wanted to call “Yo’ Mama.” Finally, Laimbeer settled on something vulgar, but Cash, as always, refused to say anything crude.

“I’m not going to the dark side,” she told him.

This informal style carries its risks. It can produce a thriving atmosphere for winning teams, but can become corrosive on losing teams or during the heat of a game. Last season, Laimbeer grew dissatisfied at times with Cash’s intensity, and the tension between them played out on national television. During the W.N.B.A. championship series, the usually accessible Laimbeer refused any longer to a wear a microphone on the bench and banned ESPN’s cameras from Detroit’s locker room.

His generally laid-back approach aside, Laimbeer is hypercompetitive and deadly serious about basketball. His joking can be offset by withering candor.

Two months ago, Ivory Latta played in the women’s Final Four with North Carolina. She was an all-American point guard, the 2005-6 national player of the year. Now she is just another W.N.B.A. rookie, buried deep on the bench.

“She won’t play for us this year,” Laimbeer said bluntly.

He stopped practice at one point and told Latta, “You gotta shoot the ball. You can’t shoot, you can’t play.”

Guard Katie Smith, the W.N.B.A.’s leading career scorer, said that she appreciated Laimbeer because “he pulled no punches and blew no smoke.” But his style can be jarring for newcomers. Ebullient in college, Latta seemed reticent now. After practice, Laimbeer sat her down and told her that her coaches and teammates still believed in her.

While he can be abrasive, he also seems to have a sincere connection with his players. Perhaps this is because Laimbeer was not a player of great skill himself, succeeding as much on resolve as talent. He keeps practices exacting but short. He has switched practice times to accommodate Cash’s N.B.A. television commentary. And he found a condominium for Smith that would accept her oversized dog. During a league break for the 2004 Olympics, he took his entire team fishing.

“If you don’t know Bill, you think he’s the biggest jerk walking,” Cash said. “I can see past it all. He played. He knows the game. He’s competitive and he wants to win. He’ll go to war with you every day.”

Smiling, Cash added: “I like him. Do I think he’s dysfunctional? Yes. But is he a heck of a coach? Yes.”

Experience and Edge

On May 30, the morning of a home game against Washington, the Shock watched videotape of the Mystics. Joking from the previous day was gone. Cellphones were turned off in the locker room, lest the players draw fines. Laimbeer grew impatient when the remote control for the videotape machine balked. And he glared in annoyance when the team trainer kept going in and out of the door.

Cheryl Reeve, another Shock assistant, ran through the scouting report on Washington.

“I really value their pro experience,” Reeve said later of Laimbeer and Mahorn. “Bill is at all times three steps ahead of everybody in his thinking. Rick’s nuances for playing defense, that’s what he’s good at. He really breaks it down.”

As Cash did a day earlier, Reeve mentioned “the dark side.”

“It’s the edge, a place a lot of women don’t have,” Reeve said of Laimbeer. “We have competitive sides, but he brings you to that edge, competing with a sense of urgency, all out.”

Washington was winless and vulnerable but desperate, Laimbeer said during the videotape session. If the Mystics kept resorting to moving screens, he offered a suggestion from the Bad Boy playbook: “Hit them in the biceps with an elbow. That’ll stop it.”

On the court for the morning shootaround, the mood lightened. Latta had taken a hit in the face at a recent practice, and the coaches joked about her nose. “Y’all better leave her alone,” Ford said. “Y’all already made her cry four or five times.”

“I’m sorry,” Mahorn said sheepishly.

Laimbeer removed three $20 bills from his wallet and let them flutter to the court at the center circle. The team split into two groups for a final shooting drill; the winning group would keep the money for a party fund. For Laimbeer, everything is a competition. He insists he can beat all of his players at H-O-R-S-E and everybody but Smith at shooting free throws. On May 19, his 50th birthday, he took the team to a piano bar and sang “Piano Man” before a crowd of 200.

“I’m not a good singer, but I’m not afraid,” Laimbeer said.

The Love of Competition

Upon retiring from the Pistons in 1993 after 14 N.B.A. seasons, Laimbeer operated a company that made corrugated boxes. But he struggled to motivate workers on hourly wages. “Very frustrating,” he said. And so, in 2002, yearning for competition, he joined the Shock, taking over an 0-10 team in midseason. A season later, Detroit became the W.N.B.A. champion.

“Bill was coaching when he was playing,” said Isiah Thomas, the coach and president of the Knicks and a former Pistons teammate of Laimbeer’s. “Chuck Daly put a lot of trust in us. We had guys on the floor telling each other what to do, putting together game plans. Bill understands offensive and defensive concepts as well as anyone.”

When someone expresses surprise that Laimbeer is coaching women, he answers: “These are professional athletes. They are at the top of the world in what they do.”

Women play a fundamentally sound game and listen better than men, he said. Still, a coach runs his course with any team.

“You grind on the players; they grind on you,” Laimbeer said. At some point, he said, he would like to coach in the N.B.A., although a certain question hangs like a last-second shot: Would his forceful personality be accepted?

“I’m a championship coach,” Laimbeer said. “I win, I demand, I hold people accountable. My job is to say what everybody else is thinking but is afraid to say. Some people don’t like that. That’s too bad.”

He says his style would work in the N.B.A., on his terms. Reflecting upon the Larry Brown fiasco with the Knicks, Daly said, Thomas told him, “I should have hired Laimbeer; he’s so thick-skinned.”

First things first. Laimbeer’s aim now is a third W.N.B.A. title. An hour before the game against the Mystics, Mahorn instructed the reserve center Katie Feenstra how to dribble with her fingers instead of her palm. Then the starting center Kara Braxton walked past, and Mahorn uttered words he surely never said during his playing career: “Your makeup’s coming off.”

As Mahorn sat on the scorer’s table, Ford and forward Plenette Pierson flanked him in a pregame ritual. When he played with the Washington Bullets, Mahorn and Jeff Ruland were known as McFilthy and McNasty. Now the Shock players call him Huggy Bear.

He reminded Ford and Pierson that the Mystics post player Nakia Sanford seldom passed the ball. “She wouldn’t pass the orange juice at breakfast,” he said.

Then he grew introspective. His mother, Alice Mahorn, who passed away 15 years earlier, would have been 71 on this day, he told the players. He considered her his mother, his father, his best friend. She was buried in Hartford, but he had not been to visit her grave. “She’s not there,” Mahorn said, then pointed to his chest. “She’s in here.”

Once in the locker room, Laimbeer told the Shock that the Mystics lacked size and played indifferent defense. “Run them into the ground,” he said.

Complaining and Cajoling

The game started clumsily for Detroit. The Shock turned the ball over repeatedly and allowed Washington a volley of offensive rebounds. Laimbeer kept complaining that the Mystics’ guards were carrying the ball.

He paced the sideline in his sports coat, talking constantly to the referees. When he felt aggrieved, he pirouetted in disbelief or jammed his thumbs inside his belt. Sometimes, he leaned in an odd way as he walked back to the bench, as if trying to get out of the rain.

Maxwell, the team spokesman, laughed at courtside and said: “He ought to make more money. Not only does he coach, but he refs, too.”

Before the game, Laimbeer told Latta that he might play her early against Washington’s zone. It might boost her confidence. Late in the first half, she entered and made a 3-pointer. Her first career basket put the Shock ahead, 40-31. Laimbeer pumped his fist.

At halftime, Detroit led, 45-36, but Laimbeer said the 9-point lead could have been 15 or 20. Washington had seven offensive rebounds, he said, glancing at the stat sheet: “That’s unacceptable.”

Then, as Laimbeer stood in the middle of the locker room, he noticed that Ford and Powell were giggling.

“What are you looking at?” he said. “Oh, my zipper’s down.”

Mahorn burst out laughing.

When a more serious mood returned, Laimbeer gave final instructions: Stop the turnovers and the lackadaisical rebounding. “Don’t let them back in it,” he said.

The game broke open by 15 points in the third quarter, then Laimbeer drew a technical when he complained that Washington guard Nikki Blue was the W.N.B.A.’s worst offender at carrying the ball “and everybody knows it.”

The Mystics drew to 66-59, but faded again in the fourth period as Detroit won, 94-79. Just before the buzzer, Latta sank another 3-pointer. In the victorious locker room, Laimbeer chided his players about their 24 turnovers, saying there had been “a lot of sloppy, stupid ones, right Cash?”

“That can’t happen,” he said.

Still, Detroit had won and Latta had scored her first two professional baskets. Many teams would have just run out the clock at the end, Laimbeer told Latta. And then, when he seemed to be scolding her, he added: “We don’t do that. Reserve players, get yours. If they stop playing, cram it down their throats.”

Then he gathered the team for a celebratory huddle.

“Come on, Crack,” Laimbeer said to Cash.

She had delivered 21 points, 7 rebounds and 5 assists, but Mahorn remembered only some awkward move of hers and shouted, “That was a crackhead shot.”

A smile fixed on her face, Cash mentioned the river that flowed through her hometown, McKeesport, Pa.

“Y’all are going to find Bill floating in the Youghiogheny,” she said.

I get the feeling that Billy Laims could be really really good, but don't want an Alan Trammel rerun either.

WNBA DYNASTY BABY.

Still, Detroit had won and Latta had scored her first two professional baskets. Many teams would have just run out the clock at the end, Laimbeer told Latta. And then, when he seemed to be scolding her, he added: “We don’t do that. Reserve players, get yours. If they stop playing, cram it down their throats.”
thats the mentality I want out there.


Also this isnt linear to trammel imo(trammel woulda never said anything like that). I want laimbeer for his aggressive yet lose coaching attributes. Not because he was a Piston. I think he's a much more prepared to deal with players coach now than he was back in the day. Get some A-1 assisants around him and take a gamble on combat basketball. Or ride this softy Flippity Doo da thing until it hurts I guess.

[smilie=peepwall.gi:

Alan Trammell's Tigers lose by 10 runs.

"Well, you know, I liked the team's effort tonight...things just didn't go our way and we'll try to go out and get a win tomorrow. Thanks guys" *smile*


If the Shock win it all again this year is WTFDetroit gonna consider adding a WNBA forum? :-P

You should watch it. Its entertaining.

Didn't mean to make an analogy of Tram and Laims on their aproach or agressiveness but more along the lines of not wanting another fav Detroiter failing.

One should still have balls to make the move if its the best thing though.

Laimbeer doesn't know the names of 25% of the players in the NBA.

Dude's a cartoon character with a permabeer and a dress shirt unbuttoned way too far.

Ok, that didn't say much. What dont you like about his coaching Glenn? I mean seriously. I reiterate "seriously" in hopes of reading a legit reason nothing like the one above about cartoons and dress shirts..

Gutz,

Let me try to be more clear.

In my opinion, he has demonstrated through his commentary during Pistons games that he does not have a good grasp on the NBA talent pool. He flatly just didn't know who some players even were, (and I'm not talking about one or two guys here and there, either) and I find that highly unacceptable not only for a broadcaster, but especially for a potential NBA head coach.

And although this is only one example, his lack of professionalism during things such as a Jim Rome appearance in Detroit a couple of years ago (where he was beer bonging in the parking lot and later appeared on stage slurring his speech and interrupting Vinnie Johnson, who was fielding questions from Rome about the Pistons glory days, with incomprehensible garbage about the Shock) show me that he would be a poor fit to coach an NBA franchise. It is also entirely possible, again, in my opinion, that this sort of thing may have been a contributing factor in ESPN firing him from his short TV stint.

That said, I'd love to see the Knicks hire him, it would be a complete train wreck.

He might be a fun guy to hang out with, but please keep him the hell away from the Pistons.

I actually listened to an interview they just had with him on 1130 a couple days ago and he seemed pretty knowlegdable. I'm not saying hire him, but I think he knows more about bball than people think.

I realize that my opinion on Laimbeer as the Pistons head coach will be in the minority, it has been for years, and I'm okay with that.

If we clean house and go with a youth movement, Laimbeer is my #1 choice.

I just don't think the current guys will respect a guy whose only experience is coaching women.

If you look at Laimbeer's defense and offense, it is really impressive. He runs a guard-oriented offense, but always knows when to get the frontcourt a touch at the right time.

More than anything, Lambs is a master of controlling the tempo. He brings a lot of the things Chuck Daly did.

2 votes for 'Theres a good chance' ... MATT, YOU CANT VOTE TWICE! j/k

If I'm not mistaken, Popvich of San Antonio went from GM to coach. It seems to have worked out. Of course, when you have Tim Duncan...

Gutz,

Let me try to be more clear.

In my opinion, he has demonstrated through his commentary during Pistons games that he does not have a good grasp on the NBA talent pool. He flatly just didn't know who some players even were, (and I'm not talking about one or two guys here and there, either) and I find that highly unacceptable not only for a broadcaster, but especially for a potential NBA head coach.

And although this is only one example, his lack of professionalism during things such as a Jim Rome appearance in Detroit a couple of years ago (where he was beer bonging in the parking lot and later appeared on stage slurring his speech and interrupting Vinnie Johnson, who was fielding questions from Rome about the Pistons glory days, with incomprehensible garbage about the Shock) show me that he would be a poor fit to coach an NBA franchise. It is also entirely possible, again, in my opinion, that this sort of thing may have been a contributing factor in ESPN firing him from his short TV stint.

That said, I'd love to see the Knicks hire him, it would be a complete train wreck.

He might be a fun guy to hang out with, but please keep him the hell away from the Pistons.
There wasn't much recent or coaching related stuff in there. But close enough. Agree to disagree. As far as coaching women's basketball. I doubt that has effect. I pay attention to his actual coaching on the court, and I like his aggressive, high expectation, Up tempo offense, High emphasis on defense, and his growth in dealing with players(I think he's come a long way in the latter). Since when were the emotional psycho head trip that are women, easier to deal with than men? [smilie=peepwall.gi:

JMHO, but I see nothing wrong in him being our HC, if Joe D picks the assistants. . Either way its moot since we are bringing the great Flip saunders back to disappoint one more time.

I realize that my opinion on Laimbeer as the Pistons head coach will be in the minority, it has been for years, and I'm okay with that.
Not true. Most people have felt he wasnt right for the job for awhile. If theres any change in that, its only as of late. Again I think he's looks far better as a coach these days.

After that bad Delfino trade, Dumars might have to save his GM job let alone become head coach. I don't really mean that..........well, I might. I'm just pissed we gave away Delfino so cheap.

I'm not. its pointless to keep him and all other teams knew we had no use of him with Flip as coach. Not much leverage on our side.

Gutz,

Let me try to be more clear.

In my opinion, he has demonstrated through his commentary during Pistons games that he does not have a good grasp on the NBA talent pool. He flatly just didn't know who some players even were, (and I'm not talking about one or two guys here and there, either) and I find that highly unacceptable not only for a broadcaster, but especially for a potential NBA head coach.

And although this is only one example, his lack of professionalism during things such as a Jim Rome appearance in Detroit a couple of years ago (where he was beer bonging in the parking lot and later appeared on stage slurring his speech and interrupting Vinnie Johnson, who was fielding questions from Rome about the Pistons glory days, with incomprehensible garbage about the Shock) show me that he would be a poor fit to coach an NBA franchise. It is also entirely possible, again, in my opinion, that this sort of thing may have been a contributing factor in ESPN firing him from his short TV stint.

That said, I'd love to see the Knicks hire him, it would be a complete train wreck.

He might be a fun guy to hang out with, but please keep him the hell away from the Pistons.

I was there that day... I remember that. It made things very awkward. Then again, not as awkward as John L. Smith acting a used car salesman.

I think it would be in the teams best interest (and I don't know if this happens anyway) if he walked down to the court during practice and gave players tips and helped them out. He went against Jordan and did as good if not better job than anybody, so since we have Lebron in our division now he has some insight. I don't ever see him being the coach though.

I keep thinking of when Dumars lit a fire under McDyess's ass.

I think he needs to get a little more comfortable doing that.

I keep thinking of when Dumars lit a fire under McDyess's ass.

I think he needs to get a little more comfortable doing that.
I think the opposite. In fact I think Dumars is the problem. With Flip as coach, dumars is way to "hands on" and is slowly turning into mchale. When we had LB or Carlisle, Dumars had no say in who plays or was he even worrying about the rotation. He's trying to force this thing to work, and its not.