Ok, with the no-hitter tonight, which is being heavily discussed in the Brewers series thread, it brings up a question.

How soon is too soon to start talking about Verlander in terms of things like "future Hall of Famer" or so on? Most people wait until a pitcher has a Cy Young or 100 wins in the first 6 years or so, with a career ERA hovering around (or below) 3.00 with a number of other factors.

I rpomise such praise would be very premature. One thing ESPNews pointed out tonight really hits home with that. When they showed the two previous reigning rookies of the year to do it, it was Hideo Nomo and then John Montefusco before that. Nomo finished 123-109 and Montefusco finished 90-83, so it's no symbol of continuing success. However, something makes it seem like Verlander could be different, doesn't it?

So I guess the question is, what are you willing to project for him at this point? Maybe it's a couple 20 wins seasons along the way. Maybe it's just that he'll be in 5 All-Star games. Maybe a Cy Young or maybe not even that. But what ARE you willing to predict about his career?

Well I'm not one for predictions (*coughnudge*) but even if he didn't get that no hitter I'd have to say he's my favorite baseball player right now. He's just such a pleasure to watch pitch and him being a Tiger doesn't hurt at all.

John Sickels had this exact idea, here's his projection from last August. Sickels is a pretty well respected prospect guru:

http://minorleagueball.com/story/2006/8/16/122940/855

My Tiger.

John Sickels had this exact idea, here's his projection from last August. Sickels is a pretty well respected prospect guru:

http://minorleagueball.com/story/2006/8/16/122940/855

That's extremely interesting. Looking at those numbers and the time he must have put into it makes me want to talk to the guy for an afternoon, because it's guys like that I could really have a geek day with. Yeah, I'm a loser for getting caught up in stuff like that, but I like it. At least I get out of the house and go actually play sports from time to time - makes be feel better about myself.

Anyhow, tomorrow I think I'll follow this up with a list of guys currently pitching that I think are sure fire Hall of Fame guys, followed by some mid-career guys that are likely on their way, and finishing with some young guys that seem like possibilities - all for the purpose of comparing thei work to Verlanders.

Verlander was on fiya last night...

That's extremely interesting. Looking at those numbers and the time he must have put into it makes me want to talk to the guy for an afternoon, because it's guys like that I could really have a geek day with. Yeah, I'm a loser for getting caught up in stuff like that, but I like it. At least I get out of the house and go actually play sports from time to time - makes be feel better about myself.


Mancrush?

Could be a new thread concept/schtick...

edit, done: http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9534

LOL @ the Padres for passing on him in the draft because they thought Bush would be easier to sign.

So, as for my list of Hall of Famers, I'm going a little off the top of my head right now - so I'm sure to miss some.
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Probably Pedro Martinez and John Smoltz.
Possibly Curt Schilling.

Mid-career guys would include Roy Halladay and Johan Santana. Possibly Tim Hudson. Bartolo Colon. Is Josh Beckett middle-of-career now?

As far as young guys, it's hard to call because of potential of arm troubles. Kerry Wood and/or Mark Prior probably would have made this list at one time, but it's very unlikely now.
But you look at guys like Jake Peavy. Dontrelle Willis, if the Marlins could ever decide if they'll keep a team around him or not. Scott Kazmir maybe, if he is on winning teams. Verlander could be. People are fawning over Hamels in Philly.
Those are just a few names. With as stingy as the voters like to be, it's highly unlikely that 15-20 current pitchers will make it, even though they're at different ends of careers, but maybe it will happen.

I dont like the Tigers, dont really care about them either since they play in the AL but I love pitchers. If a Tigers game is on and Verlander is pitching I will watch it. If he keeps this up, as in last year and his start to this year he could be my fav player of this generation. Unfortunately none of my fav players ever played for the Cubs except for one... Nolan, Clemens, Maddux. I root for the Cubs but I watch for pitchers, even Cubs games I generally only watch when Z is pitching.

Off topic question for you since you mentioned Z. When the Cubs play interleague in AL stadiums, does Z still bat? If it were up to me he would. Dude can kill you with his arm, with his bat, or with whatever else he can find in the dugout!

Honestly I have no idea, but I agree he would still bat.

I just watched that nut job Zambrano lose his no hitter in the 8th inning.

Nice "brawl" in the 4th inning too. Weird to see that when both pitchers have no hitters going.

Brocail was in there jawing, of course, and Peavy got ejected too.

I just watched that nut job Zambrano lose his no hitter in the 8th inning.

Nice "brawl" in the 4th inning too. Weird to see that when both pitchers have no hitters going.

Brocail was in there jawing, of course, and Peavy got ejected too.
I'm guessing Mark Mulder will not get ejected today.

Sad when you throw a complete 2-hit 1 run game and lose. Fuckin Cubs, but you get used to it as a fan. Oh well back to V, when is he scheduled to pitch next and hopefully I get to see it.

He'll pitch tomorrow against the Phillies. (Verlander, that is)

Another quality start and W.

Adam Eaton hits off Verlander = 2
Brewers = 0

His chances of getting to 9-2 are pretty decent since he's scheduled to face 3-6 Kyle Davies (With a 5.70 ERA) in his next start in Hotlanta.
Andrew Miller has no such luck since he's scheduled to face his 3rd consecutive 200 game winner. First Glavine, then Moyer, next is Smoltz. I wonder if any rookie has ever faced three different 200 games winners in a row before this.

lol Andruw Jones.

JV will get to 9-2 no problem.

After yesterday's game, I hear someone on the radio talk about Verlander for Cy Young. Now, it's June and that's pretty early to be throwing stuff like that around.
Last year he finished 7th, behind Johan Santana, Chein-Ming Wang, Roy Halladay, Francisco Rodriguez, Joe Nathan and Kenny Rogers. (Verlander was really just a blip on the radar with 2 3rd place votes).
Santana has the ERA but not the W-L record so far. Wang has been solid but not spectacular. Halladay has the W-L record but not the ERA. F-Rod has been very good, and Nathan has been his usual self but hasn't had nearly as many opportunities so far. Rogers, of course, just pitched his first game of the season. There are others names to worry about like Haren, Lackey, Beckett and Sabathia, but I wondered how Verlander stacked up against last year.

So, through 15 games last year Verlander's stats looked like this:
9-4 record in 95.2 IP, 91 hits, 31 walks, 58 strikeouts and a 3.39 ERA
This year -
9-2 record in 97.0 IP, 76 hits, 34 walks, 85 strikeouts and a 2.78 ERA

More than any of the guys from last year, Verlander has really improved. It's more than just the slight ERA improvement. 15 fewer hits, 27 more strikouts and had the Tiger offense not been pathetic the first couple weeks of the season, he would have easily won his first two games, both no-decisions in which he gave up 0 ER but the offense couldn't do anything. (one they lost 3-1, the other they won 4-1 in 12 innings). So he could eaily be 11-2.

So what are his chances for Cy Young? Well, way too early to tell, but a lot might be determined by how he finishes the season. In his final 6 starts last season he went 2-3 allowing 23 ER in 32.2 IP. (His last 9 starts = 3-5 record and 33 ER in 50.2 IP)
Credit that to a couple things. #1 as the season wears on many teams learn more about tendencies of a young pitcher that they otherwise hadn't seen before. #2 is the wall. A lot was made last year about how Verlander had never pitched more than 130 innings. Before those final 9 outings he had pitched 135.1 (and had a 14-4 record and 2.79 ERA). You can see what happened after that. He may hit a bit of a wall again this year, but it shouldn't be as noticeable. So with a slight improvement, could he actually win 20 this year? 20 wins and a sub 3.00 ERA should do it. Last year Santana was the only full time starter in the AL below 3.00 and he was tied with Wang for most wins with 19.

Just some Cy Young thoughts for you to chew on.

Well, Bonderman hasn't lost in 17 starts. he should be considered too. beckett has 11 wins now. Don't know what Sabathia's numbers are, but he's had some impressive starts too.

As much as Bonderman's 17 game unbeaten streak is impressive, you can't give him full credit for that in terms of Cy Young. That's an award given for the season, and 13 of those 17 starts are from this year. You have to remove the other 4. What's working in Jeremy's favor is that fact that the team hasn't been blowing his performances, with all 8 of his wins coming in last last 8 outings, unlike the first 5. However, what's hurt him is his June ERA of 5.70. If he wants to make a run at the Cy Young, tonight would be a good time to start. Go beyond 6 innings and hold the Rangers to 2 or less. That will get his ERA back below 4 and hopefully get him to 9-0.