i assume zip has some pretty strong feelings on this one, but i'll share mine first.

im taking Lee h. oswald acted alone, but was acting on behalf of the cubans by way of USSR.

im getting this all from: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4372003961374303142

i think this is alot more sensible than oliver stone's hypothesis in JFK. basically, it was in retaliation to the bay of pigs/ bobby kennedy's relentless attempts on fidel's life. reason why its not openly accepted is because if we aknowledged it was cuba we would have had to go to WWIII.

oh yea, i think this: http://www.dailymotion.com/BBGIrl_DK/video/xjnpg_mythbusters-1x01

does a nice job refuting the notion that it couldnt have been one shooter... its the 3rd prt of the show.

edit: not quite the video i thought it was. some other show refuted that it was impossible for one guy to fire that gun at that range in that time frame. oh well, this one isnt horrible.

I think it's pretty irrefutable that Oswald acted alone. The debatable part is whether or not someone put him up to it.

I say no. He was a lunatic hell-bent on making a name for himself. When he went to Russia, he fully expected to be revered by their government, and when he got kicked out of Russia, he expected to be greeted by throngs of people and reporters at the airport. Neither of course happened. He loved controversy because it brought attention, and would stop at nothing to get attention. That's why he was pounding the pavement handing out flyers for Fair Play for Cuba. He knew the easiest way to get attention was to be controversial.

I think he got increasingly desperate for attention, and when he heard Kennedy would be driving right past his place of business in Dallas, he saw a perfect opportunity for the limelight, and he took it.

It was just a case of wrong place, wrong time, wrong guy to be loitering around when a president is driving by with the top down.

Wow, TK summed my feelings up perfectly. I think we'd all love for there to be more to it, to be able to match up the weight of the tragedy with a equally heavy reason, but it was simply a pathetic guy looking for a purpose in his life. For this reason, I understand conspiracy theories, especially with the distrust of the government that the events of that time fueled, but if you stick to just the facts of the situation, the answer is painfully simple.

I've actually thought all along that some sort of wide ranging conspiracy is too hard to keep quiet, especially as the years go by afterward.
The only problem I have is Oswald's ability to rattle off those shots with pinpoint accuracy from that distance at a target that was moving away from him.
To my knowledge, he was not, while in the Marines, the possessor of great skill with the rifle. I don't belive he ever qualified with the highest scores as a marksman. Somehow he managed to get better with the rifle after leaving the Marines. Interesting.
Other than that, just a lone kook who somehow convinced himself that he was saving America from the demons that chase us all.

I've actually thought all along that some sort of wide ranging conspiracy is too hard to keep quiet, especially as the years go by afterward.
The only problem I have is Oswald's ability to rattle off those shots with pinpoint accuracy from that distance at a target that was moving away from him.
To my knowledge, he was not, while in the Marines, the possessor of great skill with the rifle. I don't belive he ever qualified with the highest scores as a marksman. Somehow he managed to get better with the rifle after leaving the Marines. Interesting.
Other than that, just a lone kook who somehow convinced himself that he was saving America from the demons that chase us all.

It took three attempts before he got the kill shot. I'd hardly call that pinpoint accuracy. His marks in the Marines were passable, and to be passable to the Marines is to be quite good anywhere else. Just because he wasn't the best of the best doesn't mean he couldn't hit a slow moving target a short distance away, with a scope no less, on 1 of 3 tries.

I'm fairly certain that Oswald was capable of doing what he was accused of. Of course we definitely do not have the full story here, and we probably never will. Even the Warren Commission admitted that there was likely more to this than they were capable of finding.

But another way to look at what was behind Oswald is to just look at the effects - after Kennedy was assassinated, this country embarked on its mad love affair with safety and social order, and we began our slow downward turn into paranoia. Every bit of chaos before the assassination was always "meh, crazy shit happens sometimes." After the assassination, it was "oh my God, what is it now?"

Anyone who doesn't see the scope of that change in attitudes should look at the presidents before Kennedy, and the presidents after Kennedy.

Before Kennedy: fearless, ballsy men; even when they didn't have all the answers, they were tough. Let's take a quick look at some of them: Eisenhower, Truman, Franklin Roosevelt, Wilson, Teddy Roosevelt (for my money, the best president he ever had).

After Kennedy, they just got increasingly more interested in self-preservation and weaker-willed. Johnson (thanks for Vietnam, fucker), Nixon (thanks for Watergate, asshole), Ford (thanks for pardoning Nixon, douchelord), Carter (thanks for Iran, dickweed), Reagan (thanks for being a delusional nutjob, assface), Bush (thanks for not having any idea how 99% of your citizens live their lives, Richie Rich), Clinton (thanks for Monica and rabid Republicans, phallus), and now Bush (...ugh).

Kennedy was the last of the "real men" in the White House.

It took three attempts before he got the kill shot. I'd hardly call that pinpoint accuracy. His marks in the Marines were passable, and to be passable to the Marines is to be quite good anywhere else. Just because he wasn't the best of the best doesn't mean he couldn't hit a slow moving target a short distance away, with a scope no less, on 1 of 3 tries.

It seems we agree that Oswald acted alone. However, the first shot hit Kennedy in what seemed to be the throat, and there was a second shot which hit him in the back of the head. two of three at least.
Something about a double bolt action thingy, having to pull the weapon off your shoulder, cock it, aim, and fire again.
I am fairly certain it wasn't an automatic rifle that just required point and shoot for multiple rounds. Very tough.
As for the Marine Corps rifle testing, take it from me: Not too tough. And unless he was an infantryman, he shot a rifle once a year to qualify, and then again, unless an avid rifle guy, not many other times would you be picking up a rifle inThe Corps.

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than the enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. My rifle and I know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, or the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit.

My rifle is human, even as I am human, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other.

Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.

So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy.

It seems we agree that Oswald acted alone. However, the first shot hit Kennedy in what seemed to be the throat, and there was a second shot which hit him in the back of the head. two of three at least.
Something about a double bolt action thingy, having to pull the weapon off your shoulder, cock it, aim, and fire again.
I am fairly certain it wasn't an automatic rifle that just required point and shoot for multiple rounds. Very tough.
As for the Marine Corps rifle testing, take it from me: Not too tough. And unless he was an infantryman, he shot a rifle once a year to qualify, and then again, unless an avid rifle guy, not many other times would you be picking up a rifle inThe Corps.

The first shot hit Connely, then Kennedy. A total miss. The next shot hit the curb, I believe. He took his time on the third shot and hit Kennedy's head.

It was a bolt action rifle, and the timing of the shots was replecated by an 85 year old man on a Peter Jennings special which still airs on the Discovery Channel from time to time. It's called Beyond Conspiracy link (http://www.amazon.com/Kennedy-Assassination-Beyond-Conspiracy-Dol/dp/B0001BFDLO). The same man had Oswald's shooting book which scored his shots from certain distances, and the scores were actually quite good. I think the notion that he was a crappy shot was spread by conspiracy theorists in order to sell their stories.

For some reason I was hoping that this thread was about that annoying chick that used to be on MTV.

My mistake, carry on.

The first shot hit Connely, then Kennedy. A total miss. The next shot hit the curb, I believe. He took his time on the third shot and hit Kennedy's head.

It was a bolt action rifle, and the timing of the shots was replecated by an 85 year old man on a Peter Jennings special which still airs on the Discovery Channel from time to time. It's called Beyond Conspiracy link (http://www.amazon.com/Kennedy-Assassination-Beyond-Conspiracy-Dol/dp/B0001BFDLO). The same man had Oswald's shooting book which scored his shots from certain distances, and the scores were actually quite good. I think the notion that he was a crappy shot was spread by conspiracy theorists in order to sell their stories.

this is what i was referring to. pretty conclusively shows that you didnt have to be all world to pull of the shots, and its definitly plausible that lho did it.

or to put it a better way, arguing that it was impossible that oswald did it alone based on it being impossible is definitly a weak argument.

No, no I don't think it hit Connelly first. Kennedy was in the back seat, Connelly the front. I think the bullet exited Kennedy, then hit Connelly, and ended up in the front seat next to Connelly.

Unless, of course, I'm wrong, and the first shot was made when the limo was headed toward the book depository, than after the turn the other shots were fired.

No, no I don't think it hit Connelly first. Kennedy was in the back seat, Connelly the front. I think the bullet exited Kennedy, then hit Connelly, and ended up in the front seat next to Connelly.

Unless, of course, I'm wrong, and the first shot was made when the limo was headed toward the book depository, than after the turn the other shots were fired.

Holy shit, you're right. I totally got that wrong, sorry.

Yes, the first shot went through Kennedy's neck and then hit Connely.

I was busy as hell yesterday and highly distracted, but since I like debating this, I couldn't stay away.

For some reason I was hoping that this thread was about that annoying chick that used to be on MTV.

My mistake, carry on.
http://www.drudge.com/1999/19990719.htm

Glenn:
I could never stand "Downtown" Julie Brown either.