We've dabbled with this in several other threads, but it deserves its own.

First up, A Sherrod Blakely


Sayonara Saunders?

Posted by A. Sherrod Blakely June 04, 2007 13:16PM

AUBURN HILLS -- I've been covering this team since 2000, and have been at every one of their season-ending pow-wows just before the players head off to parts unknown, for the summer.

But this one was unlike any I had seen before.

For starters, head coach Flip Saunders pulled out of the parking lot just a few minutes after all the players arrived. Usually coaches linger around for these things. There are plenty of plausible reasons for his early departure. He might have had a flight to catch, or some other pressing appointment. The conclusion some wanted to reach was that maybe he was fired and replaced by assistant Terry Porter. However, it appears Saunders job is safe ... for now.

Speaking of Porter, he reiterated that despite some reports to the contrary, he has not pulled his name out of the running for any head coaching job.
"I'm trying to put it in, not take it out," quipped Porter this morning. He is still considered a leading candidate for the Sacramento Kings job, although an opportunity to coach the Pistons would be more appealing.

The Pistons have a better team than the Kings, plus staying here would keep him closer to his family and children who are in Milwaukee.

The other unusual moment involved Rip Hamilton and Chris Webber, who were no-shows this morning. Now remember, this wasn't a mandatory meeting so it's not like they'll be punished or anything like that. But in the past, all the players came if for no other reason, than to see what everyone is planning to do for the summer, maybe get in a few laughs, reminisce about the season ... that kind of stuff.

It was especially surprising to not see Hamilton, one of the team's co-captains, there. Part of being a leader is to be there from the beginning, all the way until the very end. This gathering brings about closure to the season. For Hamilton to not be a part of that, was disappointing.

I'll have more on today's happenings, which included an unexpected visit from Chauncey Billups' agent, Andy Miller, in the Booth Newspapers and on mlive.com later.

RIP was probably pissed that everyone else sucked while he was the only consistant player the whole series...except for Prince beind consistantly bad that is.

Some possible replacements to throw around:

TOM IZZO*

Terry Porter

Either Van Gundy

And here's one you won't hear about anywhere else, my darkhorse, Lindsey Hunter

And then there is Laimbeer


*There was a time, not too long ago, that I thought this was going to "eventually" happen. Not now. These players will not repect or listen to a college coach, no way.

Lindsey might be the only guy that these guys might listen to.

No coaching experience is a major drawback, of course.

Bring back Dicky V!

I was thinking Van Gundy for a while since he's a defensive minded coach and that's all that can save this team right now. Whether he'll do so may be doubtful.


Bring back John Chaney >_>
Only so Max can break LeBron's arm.

thanks for the post, Chris.

that really paints a picture of a fractured clubhouse right now.

i don't think Webber ever made a real bond with the team and organization. it was a just a shot for a ring for him. i hope he's gone next year anyways.


And here's one you won't hear about anywhere else, my darkhorse, Lindsey Hunter

Glenn, always coming through thinking out of the box.....i say promote Lindsey to at least assistant coach so we don't have to watch anymore of his poor decision making on the floor.

McCosky is on S&W right now discussing Flip.

Close down the thread.

McCosky just reported that Flip will be retained.

Flip will stay? i just turned on Stoney and Wojo to hear that Stoney say he's staying....

I say that whoever the new coach is, that they are allowed to use an electric cattle prod to get the players attention.

Thats fine if Flip stays but then some of the players must go.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

^^True.

But I wouldn't close this thread, you guys do remember when we said we'd keep Carlisle, and weeks later he was gone.

Things like this happen all the time in sports.

Who knows. Maybe Billups likes Flip and JoeD is already trying to keep Billups happy.

Could pull a Larry Bird on J.O and keep him till he signs and then say "GOTCHA! His ass is gone!"

They can do exactly what Indy did with O'Neal/Isiah.

They kept Isiah long enough to get O'Neal extended. Isiah was then fired before the ink was dry on Jerm's contract.

They can do exactly what Indy did with O'Neal/Isiah.

They kept Isiah long enough to get O'Neal extended. Isiah was then fired before the ink was dry on Jerm's contract.

fuck the pistons if they do something that low brow. i can take losing and even underacheiving, but i'll quickly lose interest if they pull shit like that. i can't see Joe D doing that. maybe i'm putting Dumar on a high pedestal, but i hope he wouldn't pull a stunt like that.

I own Glenn.

It wouldn't be JoeD Matt, it'd be the big cheese. JoeD would have kept LB, imo.

I own Glenn.

I tend to agree (in this case), I guess I should have went shorthand for expediency.

"Indy->Zeke->Jerm situation"

Owned

And yet another guy who's coached us into June for the past two years is in job trouble with the Pistons... ya gotta love it.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070604/UPDATE/706040422


Saunders will be back as Pistons coach

:mccosky:
Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

AUBURN HILLS -- Despite a swirl of rumors to the contrary, Flip Saunders is going to be back coaching the Pistons next season.

"Yeah, absolutely, that's the plan," said Saunders from his office Monday afternoon. "That subject has never come up (with president Joe Dumars). All we have talked about was what to do about next year and how can we get better."

Saunders said he plans to be shuttling back and forth between here and Minneapolis the next couple of days, but by next week will be here working out players in preparation of the June 28 draft.

Members of Saunders' staff, several players, as well several members of the front-office team Monday all concurred Saunders would be back for his third season.

Could that change? Perhaps. All indications pointed to Rick Carlisle coming back after the 2002-2003 season before he was fired to make room for Larry Brown.

But there is no hall-of-fame coaching candidate waiting in the wings this time. And owner Bill Davidson has said he has appreciated the job Saunders has done and he is tired of paying coaches to leave before their contract is up.

"We had two chances to win a championship the last two years and we fell short," Chauncey Billups said. "Flip got some unwarranted criticism for that. It wasn't all his fault. Players not playing that good, that had a little to do with it. Could he have made different decisions at times? Yeah. But could I have? Could Rasheed (Wallace)? Could any of us? Yeah. It wasn't all on Flip, man."

When Saunders drove away from the practice facility Monday morning, long before all the players' exit interviews had been conducted, it seemed logical to assume he had fired.

His refusal to speak to reporters at that time only fueled the speculation.

Later in the day, there was a report out of Las Vegas -- where Kings owners Joe and Gavin Maloof are conducting their interviews for a new coach -- the Pistons were indeed going to fire Saunders and replace him with assistant Terry Porter.

Porter, who was a candidate for the Kings' job, was incredulous at that report.

"That's (nonsense)," he said. "Nobody has said anything to me about any of that. I haven't pulled out of any job (opportunities). As far as we know, we're all still here."

For the record, Kings general manager Geoff Petrie, who was pushing Porter hard for the job, had not, as of Monday night, even called the Pistons to ask for permission to interview Porter. Apparently, the Maloof brothers had not endorsed Porter's candidacy. They believe he is too closely aligned with former Kings coach Rick Adelman, with whom the Maloofs had a messy divorce before last season.

But Porter made it clear that the idea of replacing Saunders had never been broached with him.

Saunders, who is getting some dental work done, returned to the office early Monday afternoon to resume his postseason chores.

There will be changes made this summer; significant ones. But they aren't going to involve the coach.

And owner Bill Davidson has said he has appreciated the job Saunders has done and he is tired of paying coaches to leave before their contract is up.

ding ding ding ding....we have a winner

well if the Flipper isn't leaving, then Joe Dumars must make some changes, semi-serious ones at least, for me to keep supporting them. Even if its a youth movement, i'm not willing to support a team that just stays stagnant in denial (ie the indiana pacers, until it all collapses).

(i'm sure dumars stays awake at night worrying that metr0man from WTFDetroit might not support them any more!!!)

Rasheed is gone. Mark my words.

I just want to say that I support the Pistons always and you guys who are saying you want to stop doing so should go ahead, us lifelong fans won't miss you. You're probably the ones yelling "Deeetroit Basketball" in Chicago every single time the Pistons get the ball, even to start quarters...

flip saunders keeping his job just proves how much of a fucking ninja he is.

i dont believe for a second that flip's job is safe. what if he forgets to get pennypincher's morningly crispy creme? next thing you know, flip's a 'bad person' and is collecting unemployement.

seriously, i'll believe flip is still our coach next year when i see the htpzd (sp?) in motion. he's probably our coach... unless something better comes along. and please, PLEASE, no van gundy. vg isnt a bad coach, probably a huge upgrade, and used to love watching him physically fall apart during the playoffs back in new york due to exhaustion, but he's the only coach that could turn this into an even more boring team.

I just want to say that I support the Pistons always and you guys who are saying you want to stop doing so should go ahead, us lifelong fans won't miss you. You're probably the ones yelling "Deeetroit Basketball" in Chicago every single time the Pistons get the ball, even to start quarters...

I say I will stop, but I know I won't. I'm just sick of the attitude this team has and the (infinite) lackluster coaching decisions.

Lil help here. Are we still paying LB or was he bought out?

I'm pretty sure he was bought out for half of what he had left or something like that.

Thx

Side thought...JoeD needs to write a book when all of this is finished. There are a ton of questions regarding Carlisle leaving, LB leaving, Ben leaving that I would love to hear what the hell really happened.

Side thought...JoeD needs to write a book when all of this is finished. There are a ton of questions regarding Carlisle leaving, LB leaving, Ben leaving that I would love to hear what the hell really happened.
It'll be co-written or ghostwritten with Krista Jahnke, who will dedicate the book to all her fans on WTFDetroit.com. :)

i dont believe for a second that flip's job is safe. what if he forgets to get pennypincher's morningly crispy creme? next thing you know, flip's a 'bad person' and is collecting unemployement.

seriously, i'll believe flip is still our coach next year when i see the htpzd (sp?) in motion. he's probably our coach... unless something better comes along. and please, PLEASE, no van gundy. vg isnt a bad coach, probably a huge upgrade, and used to love watching him physically fall apart during the playoffs back in new york due to exhaustion, but he's the only coach that could turn this into an even more boring team.
Ditto!!
i'm thinking along the lines of Flips the best option there is right now and unless someone better comes along, he'll be back.
but before that, i think he needs to go back to the coaching school and learn about playoff coaching decisions.

as for bandwagoners falling off. good riddance!!

Something occurred to me last night.

This whole report that "Flip will return" is pretty much based on Flip's comments to the media that he talked to Joe about the plan for next year and that he plans to be back in town to evaluate draft prospects in a few days. He says that he has no reason to believe that he won't be back because nothing has been said to him. In other words, Joe did not say to him "you are still our coach".

Does anybody else find that premise a bit shaky? (not a Flip/twitch reference, I promise).

Questions:

1. Why has Dumars remained silent about Flip & next year?

2. Could Flip have taken this to the media as a proactive measure against getting fired? If Dumars fires him now, it will look like he lied to Flip, even if he didn't.

3. Has anything that Flip stated make you think that it is impossible that Dumars is actually looking for a replacement, but he just hasn't told Flip that yet?

Something about the way this was handled doesn't seem right to me.

Glenn - total agreement. If the "Flip stays" word had been passed down, don't you think it would have sounded a lot better coming from higher up? I agree, this is more fucked up than a football bat.

I think one of two things has happened behind the scenes.

1. Joe has decided what needs to be done, but for ethical and practical reasons he has to stay silent until the deal is done.

2. Joe hasn't really finished deciding what to do just yet.

I'm leaning toward #2. If Joe has already decided what to do, that would mean it took him all of 2 days to put together a plan for next season. And this does not fit what I know about how this team has operated - he does not make emotional snap decisions, but rather deliberate, coldly analytical ones. Joe is going to put together a plan for how to proceed for the next season, and he will find a way to get rid of anyone who doesn't have a part to play.

And if this is the case, Flip Saunders has fucked up immensely by talking to the media.

My impression was that, because he didn't stay around for Monday's exit interviews, there was speculation that he was out. Perhaps he didn't want to stay around because he wanted to rest, wring someone's neck, avoid feeling bitter, get back to his family, who the fuck knows.

Flip gets pestered about his sudden exit, says "as far as I know, I'm not out". And y'all are tearing it to shit. I see his perspective. He's got a contract. He's taken the Pistons to two straight ECFs, despite losing an fading All Star and getting an even-more-fading All Star. Joe and him are talking in terms of evaluating draft picks. Sure, stuff changes in an instant and he may be out at any moment. But when someone asks you "do you have a job", you don't generally say "I dunno" -as- you're working.

Sheesh!

http://www.twincities.com/ci_6061932?source=most_viewed


Source: Saunders still coach of Pistons
Official announcement yet to be made

From news services
Article Last Updated: 06/05/2007 12:35:20 AM CDT

Flip Saunders will be back as coach of the Detroit Pistons next season, an NBA official with knowledge of the team's plans told the Associated Press on Monday night.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the Pistons haven't made an announcement about Saunders' future, said bringing the coach back for a third season is part of Detroit's retooling plan.

Though many believe the Pistons could make significant changes this offseason and some have suggested a fourth coach in six years for the franchise, Saunders said he "absolutely" expects to return.

"That's never been a question," Saunders said Monday in a telephone interview with the AP.

Earlier in the day, the Pistons cleaned out their lockers at the team's practice facility in Auburn Hills and met briefly, two days after Cleveland eliminated them in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference finals.

Richard Hamilton and Chris Webber were the only no-shows at the gathering that was not mandatory.

Saunders' future ultimately will be decided by Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars, who has declined to comment since the season ended Saturday night.

So who is this NBA official and how do they have knowledge about Joe's "retooling plan"?

Joe's retooling plan came together pretty quickly, eh?

I do admit its a bit strange we haven't gotten a Joe D comment flat out saying that Flip would be back, didn't we get something like this last year after our loss?

This was obviously written before McCosky's report, but an interesting read, nonetheless.

http://www.chicagosportsreview.com/inthemeantime/contentview.asp?c=196254


Flip Saunders: A De Trois Eulogy

BY D.K. Wilson

The Flip Saunders era of Deeee-troit Bas-ket-ball! officially ended at approximately 11:50 EST Saturday evening. This season, Saunders' second, ended in the Eastern Conference finals just like last year did in more ways than just games won and lost. Last season ended with in-fighting among teammates. Then Ben Wallace was named as the locker room cancer and jettisoned to Chicago. This season it was Chauncey Billups. No, it was Rasheed Wallace. No, it was Richard Hamilton. No, it was that known bad guy, Chris Webber.

No.

It was Flip Saunders.

Saunders has the reputation as being a low-key head coach; not the pissed off, about to have an aneurism lookin' type of head coach Larry Brown was. Oddly, that's one of the reasons Joe Dumars brought him into the Pistons fold. After being verbally pistol-whipped by Brown for two years, Detroit appeared psychically beaten by the time Game 7 against the San Antonio Spurs rolled around. Dumars also felt that, through Brown, the Pistons realized exactly how much personal commitment it took and would take in the future to win future championships. To lighten the reins, Joe D. smartly - or so he thought - brought in Flip.

And boy did the team flip on Saunders.

By the end of the sixth game of last season's Eastern Conference finals loss to Miami, Wallace - Ben, that is - was pissed off because token plays weren't run for him (shhhhh! it was his contract year). Chauncey was grumbling because there were too many gimmick defenses and not enough straight-up, grill-to-grill defensive play. Sheed felt Saunders didn't stick up for him enough in the face of biased referees.

Though Saunders freed the Pistons offensively, in 2005-06 they only averaged three-and-a-half more points - 96.8 - than they did the year before under Brown. But with a 64-win year, Detroit coasted into the playoffs. Once there, it appeared Detroit felt like the privileged 12 and other teams in the East were supposed to roll over and play beta dogs in their presence.

Milwaukee complied, and Detroit rolled them, 4-1. It wasn't until Cleveland was up 3-2 with a close out game at home before the Pistons woke up. Forty-eight game minutes later, it was Miami's turn. Once again, neutral was the gear of choice for the defending Eastern Conference champs. Miami, finding the car rolled easily, was nice enough to push the Pistons back home for the summer; the 4-2 East final wasn't really that close.

So, who was expendable, production and contract-wise? The bell tolled for Big Ben and he was dutifully painted as a malcontent - how dare he ask for the ball?! We'll see if he thinks he can get away with that type of behavior in Chi-town on Scott Skiles' watch! And all the real problems with the Pistons were swept into a corner.

There's no doubt that Joe Dumars saw the pile last season. There's no doubt he trusted it to be cleared away and for the team to play this year with a purpose they lacked last season. Unfortunately, someone forgot to get out the dust pan and by the end of this season all that dirt from the prior Detroit campaign found its way scattered in front of some of the same lockers it was cleared from last time.

But 2006-07 it turned out to be a redux. The Pistons allegedly put more emphasis on being ready for the playoffs instead of winning "meaningless regular season games." But the Eastern Conference finals was, well, horrific. How the Pistons won games one and two by exactly the same 79-76 score in exactly the same ugly manner, no one will ever know. How they lost the next four games, everyone knows. In Game 3 they were outplayed. In Game 4 they were out-coached and out-athleticed. In Game 5 - out-LeBroned.

In Game 6 they just quit.

Detroit played one half, the first. At halftime, Cavs coach Mike Brown made sure his team put all the other "outs" from the previous three wins into the second half, which Cleveland won by 16 points. While the Cavaliers did their thing, Chauncey pouted, Webber yelled then sat stunned, Rip shook his head, and Rasheed got bumped one too many times by Anderson Varajeo and got tossed before he committed hari-kari right there in front of Bill Russell and the Quicken faithful. And the 98-82 score didn't even look that close.

And now, again, the dust.

The difference between last season and this is that the dust pile will end up right in front of the head coach's door. When Detroit arrived home from Cleveland, the players headed home for the night. They'll meet in Auburn Hills at The Palace for exit meetings.

Flip Saunders will walk toward his office and see the dust pile laying in wait. At first he give the pile that tilt your head, furrowed brow, confused dog look. Almost simultaneously the realization will come that he's seen that pile before; it will appear just like the one in front of his door on his last day at the Target Center in Minneapolis. He might even glimpse upon the singular smell of the Tar-shay; every locker-room coaches' office area smells unique. He'll blink and be back in the present. With that pile. In Auburn Hills. In The Palace. With the Detroit Pistons.

The exit interviews with players will be brief; so too will be his with Dumars. The disappointment will be palpable. And if the press is waiting, Dumars will say Detroit will begin to look toward next season immediately, begin working toward bringing the city of Detroit a championship. Flip will not betray what he already knows. He won't say he saw the dust pile, he won't say what that means.

But Flip Saunders will know his time in De-Trois is all over but the cryin'.

That's a pretty devastating article. Sometimes someone writes something and you take it with a grain of salt, like "yeah but what the hell does this guy know?" But this one...it's self-evidently correct.

old but interesting deja vu.


Fire Flip for Detroit flop
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
May 30, 2006

Dan Wetzel
Yahoo! Sports

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. – Flip? He's flopped.

And unless Flip Saunders immediately regains control of the spiraling Detroit Pistons, he should be fired just one season into taking over what seemed to be the ultimate coaching job – in charge of the most selfless, self-motivated team in basketball.

The failures of Detroit, which trails the Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference finals 3-1 heading into Wednesday's Game 5, aren't all Saunders' fault, but he will be the fall guy. He has to be.

ADVERTISEMENT
The most coachable team in the league doesn't turn into the Portland Trail Blazers for no reason.

The Pistons aren't as good as they were the last two years, when they twice reached the Finals and won the title once. They aren't as tenacious defensively. They aren't as strong-willed. They aren't as cohesive, consistent or coordinated. They are barely improved offensively from the Larry Brown days, and that was the one thing Saunders was supposed to change.

During the regular season, he did. Detroit was an up-tempo team that maintained most of its defensive stinginess, streaking to the best record in the NBA.

But Saunders appears to have lost his team during the playoffs as times invariably got tough.

Because of the Pistons' history of playing their best when they're down and almost out – their own motto is "if it ain't rough, it ain't right" – there is still a belief that things can be turned around.

But this isn't the old Detroit team. And Miami – with a healthy Dwyane Wade, Shaquille O'Neal and a strong supporting cast – is not Cleveland or Orlando or New Jersey. The Heat look like a championship club.

The Pistons, meanwhile, have lost of six of their last nine games and look like a fractured team that has given up on its coach.

Rasheed Wallace, who was the definition of a team guy under Brown, has been pouting, even refusing to slap Saunders' hand coming out of games and even steering clear of a timeout huddle in Game 3. Players, including usually soft-spoken Tayshaun Prince, have publicly questioned substitution patterns.

Earlier this year, Ben Wallace, the heart and soul of the team, refused to enter a game when Saunders called on him, and lately he has been critical of practice emphasis (too much offense). Bench rotations, other than Antonio McDyess, have fluctuated wildly, confusing the reserves.

Privately, throughout the locker room, the players will tell you they dislike Saunders' emphasis of zone defense, which goes against their preferred manly version of man-to-man. There is a distinct lack of respect.

"As a coach I make decisions," Saunders said Monday. "I have to live by the decisions. As players, they play, and they have to implement as far as what we do. I don't agree with what Ben says on practice from a defensive standpoint talking to people who have been here and what we've done. We all know how Ben gets at times."

"They can suggest [changes]," Saunders continued. "That doesn't mean I'll do it."

Anytime the talk in the middle of a playoff series is about a possible feud between key players and the coach, said team's goose is all but cooked.

"We can't worry about what's going on in that situation," Prince said Monday. "But people have [seen] the toughness on the defensive end that we bring all the time hasn't been there lately. But I haven't had any problem with Flip, and I don't think any of the other players have had any problems with Flip."

Nice sentiments, but there is no way they are true. Some players certainly have a problem with Flip.

Saunders' greatest failure is losing Ben Wallace's confidence. Wallace's marginalization in Detroit's offense has affected his entire game.

I've written this before, but as strange as it sounds, the secret to getting the Defensive Player of the Year to play his best is to include him, at least a little, offensively. But Saunders has failed to do that, almost embarrassing Wallace on the offensive end by ignoring him.

During the 2004 NBA championship run, Wallace averaged 8.9 shots a game, at least four or five of which came out of Brown's set plays. Big Ben averaged 10.3 points, 14.3 rebounds, 2.4 blocks and 1.9 steals while putting out a hellacious, and contagious, effort.

This postseason, Wallace is averaging a meager 3.9 shots a game and his numbers have dropped across the board – just 4.3 points, 10.9 rebounds, 1.2 blocks and 1.4 steals.

He isn't playing the way he did a year ago as the motor of the team, and his decreased performance has had a compounded impact. In their three victories, the Heat are shooting a blistering 56.6 percent from the floor. That used to be impossible against the Pistons.

While it is Wallace's job to go all out all the time, it is also a coach's job to foster an environment that makes it happen.

Larry Brown knew it, and that is why – despite his constant sideshow of drama – he never lost his locker room.

Saunders was handed a dream job last year, with a roster that was in place to compete for multiple championships. But, to do so, the players had to want to compete for their coach. They don't seem to now. It is one thing to lose; it is another to lose like this in a very un-Detroit way.

Only one thing changed from then and now: the coach. Barring another miraculous Pistons flip-the-switch-comeback, the coach is going to have to change again.

Dan Wetzel is Yahoo! Sports' national columnist. Send Dan a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

again old article but I still see alot of the same issues as far as involving players consistently, using guys to their strengths, and game plan counter adjustments looking putrid.

At this point I hold grudge with Joe Dumars. Not for any of the players he signed and not for passing up Al Harrington who i think is overrated. But for keeping Flip Saunders and all but solidifying that it would take blind luck to get to the finals next year no matter how we look next regular season. I'm not blaming Flip anymore. Its not Flip's fault that he's a descendant of the phil Jackson Coaching philosophy which requires atleast two ball hogging semi-coach superstars with a stack of jump shooting roll players to truly be effective. This team was the opposite of him from the jump. Unfortunately Joe Dumars couldn't see that what he built as a team and who he hired weren't the same mold. so one of two things happens:

1.) he blows open the wallet, grabs a 27ppg and up scorer, maybe even dump our most efficient clutch player in Rip to be replaced by such. Build a superstar team out of his hardworker mold and hope flip gets further with it.

2.) Fire Flip, gamble on a cheap coach who is built in a mold to challenge your guys to do their best and can manage a game better. Then load him up with a great defensive assistant and a great offensive assistant.

the odds of either happening are slim(especially option 1). So I may finally be able to not watch the pistons next season for the first time since 1985 before i became an avid fan as kid. Its just too much of a cluster fuck watching this guy coach. You find yourself making excuses for him(the players have to play, ben wallace sucked on offense, sheed is lazy, joe didn't get enough bench scoring, the cavs were a better team/lol, the players dont care anymore, the lighting wasn't right, yada yada yada) when not long ago we had no problem laying hard blame to Larry Brown when we failed. But even more further Larry Brown engulfed the blame for his players. Sheed clearly screwed up on that horry shot in thr finals game 5, and LB said it was his own fault it happened. Not since Flip has been here I've never seen him shield his guys from that extra pressure from the media. No taking the blame when sheed left Marshall, just says sheed messed up.

But regardless I refuse to get mad at this twitching loser anymore. 2 seasons of this bs is enough to try another route. I takes it out on Joe D. from now on. Oh and fuck everybody's standards of what coach we should sign who saw Flip as the right guy to sign two years ago. I saw all this back then happening no matter how much I hoped it wouldnt. I'm sure Phar is the only guy who'll remembers my worry about a Flip era here. Either way thats my rant. Check the mp3 link of the post game loss to the spurs in game 5 and compare the demeanor to now.

Has anyone seen a Sheed interview? Has he said anything? Not that it matters I'm pretty sure the Pistons are going to move him, but just wondering if I missed anything.

Big Ben's publically griped about every fucking coach he's had as a Piston and then some. Look at this year's pissant power plays with Skiles. Sheed is a headcase and has been under every fucking coach he's ever had as a pro (maybe MoCheeks is an exception). Those are significant components to the so-called "most coachable team in the league" that the old article speaks of.

SAS reported on Sportscenter this morning that "several members of the Pistons organization" have lobbied Dumars to consider bringing LB back as coach.

SAS also said, as we all know, it won't happen due to Wilson/Davidson.

Bill Davidson will not buy out another coach, no way no how. Especially not for Larry Brown. And I doubt Flip is just going to throw away all that money by simply leaving.

besides, even if we would bring him back, LB would say 'sure.15 million a year'.

not happening.

No LB, and as time goes by it looks more and more like Sheed is going away. These are the loss scenarios I see so far - I'm not commenting on who the Pistons can get for the people who walk or are traded, but these seem like some likely scenarios.

1) Most likely - we lose C-Webb (retirement/who gives a fuck) and Rasheed Wallace (trade).
2) Somewhat less likely but not outside the realm of possibility - we lose C-Webb, Rasheed Wallace, and Chauncey Billups (free agency).
3) Even less likely - we lose C-Webb, Rasheed Wallace, and Rip Hamilton (a profitable trade).
4) Pretty unlikely - we lose C-Webb, but retain the other four.
5) I'd be proper fucked if this ever happened - we lose C-Webb, and trade both Sheed and Tayshaun (huge trade dollars).
6) Really not gonna happen - Webber retires, and we let Chauncey walk, but everyone else stays.
6) Totally fucking impossible - we keep Mayce Christopher Webber and let anyone else go.