May 31 Booth Newspapers' Danny Knobler is reporting Detroit Tigers 3B Brandon Inge (toe) will likely miss the next few games instead of just one. The Tigers' medical staff has told Inge he can play again as soon as he can tolerate the pain. Inge shouldn't have to go on the disabled list, but he could miss the whole series this weekend in Cleveland.


May 31 Inge was not in the Tigers' lineup on Wednesday because of a small chip fracture in his big left toe.

Advice: He likely won't play on Thursday but hopes to return soon. Omar Infante started Wednesday at third base and will likely continue doing so until Inge returns.

Infante is such a great super sub that it's actually nice to have a reason to give him a few starts.

Only problem is Guillen pulled up lame last night and is probably out a day or two. With Infante covering Inge at third, we're stuck with Neifi playing Short.

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

PIVOTAL INJURIES OF THE MONTH
Joel Zumaya and Mike Gonzalez. Is it any coincidence the Tigers' bullpen has a 6.42 ERA since the last time Zumaya pitched? This relief corps now has the second-worst ERA in the big leagues (5.30). And that, said one front-office man, "is absolutely amazing, when you think about what came out of their pen last year and how they looked in spring training."

Interesting enough, the starters have a lower ERA than last year, even without Kenny Rogers. if only the bullpen can come back together.

Infante is such a great super sub that it's actually nice to have a reason to give him a few starts.

Is there a baseball equivalent to the sixth man of the year award? If not there should be.

Tigers put Robertson on the DL

The Detroit Tigers placed struggling left-hander Nate Robertson on the 15-day disabled list Wednesday with what was described by manager Jim Leyland as a "tired arm."

Robertson faced six batters in a start on Tuesday night against the Texas Rangers, allowing two walks, two singles, a triple and a grand slam before Leyland removed him from the game. Texas went on to a 7-4 victory as Robertson lost for the fourth time in his last five starts.

Following the game, Robertson insisted he had no physical problems, but Leyland said the ball wasn't coming out of Robertson's hand the right way.

Robertson and Leyland had a 45-minute discussion prior to Wednesday night's game against the Rangers. Afterward, Leyland announced that Robertson would be placed on the disabled list and left-hander Andrew Miller will be called up from Double-A Erie to replace Robertson for Sunday's start against the New York Mets.

Leyland refused to answer questions about the move, but he did say another pitcher would be called up from the minors on Thursday to be with the club until Miller's call-up on Sunday.

After the announcement that he was headed for the disabled list, Robertson wouldn't say his arm was hurting, but admitted that his stuff hasn't been the same recently.

"Physically I don't know how you diagnose tired arm, but (the ball) isn't coming out the same," Robertson said. "It's probably the most beneficial decision for the team for them to make this move. I've said time and time again that I want to go out and do my part. Things happen like yesterday, you can't afford them in the position that we're in. You've got to battle through it and that's what I'm trying to do."

Robertson said some time off from throwing might be what he needs to end his slump.

"I'll probably have better answers in five or six days," he said. "We'll put something together with the trainers and go from there. I don't have any answers other than that. I want to do my part for this team and I know I'm capable of doing that."
http://www.mlive.com/sportsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/base/sports-23/1181177995312590.xml&storylist=michigansports

Minor went on the DL too. They are calling some other minor league pitcher up to replace him in the bullpen.

Wilson suffers setback

Vance Wilson is back to square one in his rehab, he said, after feeling a setback in his throwing arm Thursday in Toledo. He's expected to have more tests done, but he thinks surgery is a strong possibility after this current track didn't work out. He's not optimistic about a return this season.
http://beck.mlblogs.com/

Not a big loss IMO, as Rabelo is probably better than him at this point anyway.

Rabelo really has responded well. He struggled early, hitting .059 in his 17 AB in April. However, in his 39 AB since (May and June) he has 16 hits, good for a .385 BA. Only 3 of those are extra base hits and he has yet to hit a HR, but it's a pleasant surprise and he might just be at the big league level for the remainder of his career.
He is capable of a little pop. Last year he split the season between Erie and Toledo and hit 9 HR in 250 AB, while carrying just over a .270 average. He also combined for 25 doubles and 50 RBI between the two stops. Project those numbers out over 400 AB and he's looking at 14 HR, 40 doubles, and 80 RBI. Most people would gladly take that production from their catcher. If he can produce like that on this level, he may actually be Pudge's replacement someday.
I haven't followed his work so much defensively. What's the report there?

I've only seen him play a couple games really. I didn't see any steal attempts either. He looked solid fielding wise (blocking bad pitches etc), but I didn't see his arm used at all. I can't imagine it's as good as Pudge, but who is? I also have no idea how he calls a game either. That's something you have to get from an insider or the pitchers.

Any word on Guillen?

Tigers' Rogers tosses three-plus innings in Triple-A start
Associated Press

Updated: June 10, 2007


TOLEDO, Ohio -- Injured Detroit Tigers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=det) pitcher Kenny Rogers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3974) threw three-plus innings and displayed some defensive prowess in his first rehabilitation start for Triple-A Toledo on Sunday night.


Rogers faced 13 batters and threw 51 pitches, 35 of them strikes, in the Mud Hens' 2-1 win over the Norfolk Tides. His fastball topped out at 88 mph before he left with a 1-0 lead with two outs in the fourth inning.
The 42-year-old left hander has been on the disabled list all season and had surgery March 30 to remove a blood clot from his left shoulder and repair arteries.
Rogers struck out two and allowed three hits with no walks. After giving up a one-out single in the third inning, Rogers picked off Norfolk's Tike Redman (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6515) with a quick throw to first. He also cleanly fielded a sharp grounder from Mike Cervenak and threw to first to record his final out of the start.
Rogers went 17-8 with a 3.48 ERA last year and won all three of his postseason starts while not allowing a run in 23 innings for the AL champions. Before surgery, he was 2-0 with a 2.05 ERA in five exhibition starts during spring training.
Rogers' rehabilitation schedule has projected him rejoining the Tigers in July, but Rogers has said he hopes to return to the rotation in June.

That's excellent news on Kenny. It looks like, aside from Zumaya potentially being out all year, the staff is finally starting to come together. With the way Nate is struggling, I think they should bring him back as middle relief to keep the stress of 5-7 innings every 5th game off his arm. Maybe he can bounce back. I would really like to see:
1 - Bonderman
2 - Rogers
3 - Verlander
4 - Maroth
5 - Durbin
Mid relief: Robertson, Miner, Ledezma
Set-up: Byrdak, Bazardo, Seay
Closer: Rodney

I realize that's still a suspect pen, but getting Grilli and Jones out of there is very reassuring for me. I would like some others options, a mid-season trade, to improve some of the weaker areas. Next to go for me would be Ledezma. I've been an apologist but the numbers don't stack up in his favor. He's only striking out 5.34 per 9, which is poor compared to the rest of the pen, and his 1.81 WHIP is dreadful.
Bazardo and Byrdak have really been pleasant surprises in their limited time with the club. If they can keep it up they'll be the strength of the pen.

You know, Andrew Miller has pitched very well.

You know, Andrew Miller has pitched very well.

I don't think he's ready. His pitches are all over the place and teams will just start making him throw strikes soon. He needs to learn how to pitch, not just throw. He's too important to rush.

Yeah, the thing with Miller is that I think they really want to stick with him as a starter. I'm not sure they would move him to the pen until maybe the end of the season when minor league teams arte done and the roster expands. Then maybe, but if the race isn't tight they would still probably start him to give the other starters an extra days rest.
So if they keep him as a starter, I just see them trusting Maroth more down the stretch. He's got more experience and that seems to be a factor in the playoffs. If Miller had a true out pitch by then, maybe Maroth gets bumped, but probably not.

I think I'd rather see Miller stay in the minors a bit longer. Let him develop his pitches more. Just like if we'd let Bondo stay down there an extra year, he could have started developing a change-up or something, then he wouldn't be trying to figure something out in spring training each year and he'd be an even better pitcher than he already is.

Plus it would have helped Bonderman's career stats. That 6-19 season will always drag down his career W-L %. It is nice, by the way, to look at Bonderman's career season by season and the the consistant improvement.

After Leyland predicted Zumaya was out for the year, Danny Knobler put up a different take - from Zumaya himself.

DETROIT -- Joel Zumaya was in great spirits this afternoon, and he predicted that he'll be back pitching for the Tigers in six weeks.

Zumaya said ``hopefully'' after he made the six weeks prediction, but he answered with more emphasis when he was asked if he'll pitch again this season.

``Definitely,'' he said. Then he added: ``If we're in the playoffs, I'll be right there. And get ready, because I'll be 110 percent.''

In other news today, Carlos Guillen's right hamstring is still sore, and there's a good chance he won't play until Thursday at the earliest. Neifi Perez is starting in Guillen's place tonight, because left-handers hit Jeff Suppan better than right-handers (.322 vs. .242).

Placido Polanco has passed New York's Robinson Cano to move into first place in the All-Star voting at second base. Pudge Rodriguez still leads among catchers. Carlos Guillen is now second among shortstops, while Brandon Inge remains third among third baseman.

Also, Jim Leyland said that he would like to have Kenny Rogers between Jeremy Bonderman and Justin Verlander. The Tigers could do that by starting Bonderman on June 20 in Washington, with Rogers debuting two days later in Atlanta.

Rogers is to make his second and possibly final rehab start Friday night at West Michigan.

I intentionally left out my thoughts on Miller's being ready, which he clearly is not. I just wanted to point out he was pitching well in terms of statistics. I wouldn't put it past Leyland to keep him up here though, the way he likes "the best arms" bringing up Zumaya and keeping Verlander last year, etc.

Even if Miller was ready, he should stay in the minors to build up his arm strength.

Yeah, ready as in both mentally and physically.

http://www.rotowire.com/roto_to_gnews.htm?ID=224439&sport=mlb


Kenny Rogers: Could Rejoin Tigers' Rotation Friday

6/17/2007 5:01:34 AM

Update:
Rogers (blood clot) could return to the Tigers' rotation on Friday night in Atlanta against the Braves if he feels fine after his bullpen session on Monday, the Detroit News reports.

Recommendation:
"We'll wait until Monday and see how it goes," said manager Jim Leyland. "If he says he's ready, he'll start Friday night. If not, he'll rehab some more." Rogers indicated after his rehab start on Friday that he felt ready to return so there is a good chance he'll pitch this week.

Tigers place Rodney on DL
Forearm tendinitis sidelines reliever; Robertson activated

The Tigers placed reliever Fernando Rodney on the 15-day disabled list, because of tendinitis in his right forearm, prior to Tuesday's game against the Rangers.

Nate Robertson, Tuesday's starter, replaced Rodney on the 25-man roster. Robertson had been on the DL since June 7 with a "tired arm."

It is Rodney's second trip to the DL this season. He was also on the DL from May 21 to June 5 with biceps tendinitis.

Rodney said he wasn't sure if he will need only the minimum amount of the time on the DL or will need longer to completely heal.

"Just take a rest and get ready," Rodney said before Tuesday's game.

Rodney has also experienced neck and shoulder problems this season.
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070626&content_id=2050244&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

Can't say that this is a big loss with the way Rodney has been pitching this season, but hopefully he can come back healthy and pitch like he did in 06.

the whole damn bull pen is on the DL (playing wise).

Add Byrdak to the list of players on the DL.



Tim Byrdak became just the latest pitcher of a not-so-exclusive group when he was placed on the 15-day disabled list before Friday's game. The move is retroactive to June 27.

Byrdak's trip to the disabled list is the result of left elbow tendinitis. He becomes the sixth Tigers pitcher to be put on the DL this season.

That list doesn't include Kenny Rogers, who recently returned from the 60-day disabled list after preseason shoulder surgery, or Edward Campusano, who underwent left elbow surgery prior to the season and won't return until 2008. No position player has been placed on the disabled list this season for the Tigers.

Byrdak said his arm began to bother him against the Phillies on June 15. Byrdak had been one of the Tigers' most reliable relievers up to that point, with a 1.72 ERA over 17 1/3 innings. He gave up three runs in that game against the Phillies and has since given up four more runs in three appearances to push his ERA to 3.66.

He said his slider didn't have the same movement because of the injury, which actually affects a muscle on the top of his arm near his elbow, not the actual elbow.

"[The doctors] said because it is such a small muscle, hopefully the strength's back within a week to 10 days," Byrdak said. "From there, there would be a couple of rehab appearances and I should be back right after the [All-Star] break."

Byrdak said he probably won't even pick up a ball to resume throwing for a week.

"The crazy thing is, I've been doing everything that I've needed to do to make sure I'm staying on the field, and it's been working against me," Byrdak said. "I took some anti-inflammatories, continued to do the exercises and basically overused the muscle."

Byrdak's injury isn't considered serious, but manager Jim Leyland said the Tigers couldn't afford to have Byrdak in the bullpen if he wasn't guaranteed to be healthy.

"I do know one thing. With the situation of our bullpen now, they have to be able to pitch," Leyland said. "That's just the way it is. I've got to have somebody to pitch, because we don't have anything in order right now."

Zach Miner was activated from the 15-day DL to take Byrdak's roster spot.
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070629&content_id=2056244&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

With Polanco's rib cage injury, and no Neifi (lol), it's time for Infante to step up.

Good thing we kept Nefe and not Santiago or we'd have a backup right now that can actually hit over .200

Raburn can play 2nd and 3rd.

Raburn can play 2nd and 3rd.

Never seen him though. Can he hit better than Nefe? How's his defense? Hopefully good enough to kick Nefe off the roster.

I haven't seen him field those positions, but I know the fact that they look at him as an option there and the outfield is what got him called up over other guys. As for hitting better than Neifi, he's 1 for 1 with and RBI. That pretty much matched Neifi's ability with only 1 AB, right?
I'm not exactly sure how well he can defend in the infield, but given Neifi's 25 game suspension I think we might find out more about his game. Infante will be the first option at 3 infield spots and Raburn the 2nd option at 2 of them. We'll see him get probably 15-20 AB before Neifi's suspension is over so it's not likely we'll get a great read on him unless he blows up.

I haven't seen him field those positions, but I know the fact that they look at him as an option there and the outfield is what got him called up over other guys. As for hitting better than Neifi, he's 1 for 1 with and RBI. That pretty much matched Neifi's ability with only 1 AB, right?
I'm not exactly sure how well he can defend in the infield, but given Neifi's 25 game suspension I think we might find out more about his game. Infante will be the first option at 3 infield spots and Raburn the 2nd option at 2 of them. We'll see him get probably 15-20 AB before Neifi's suspension is over so it's not likely we'll get a great read on him unless he blows up.

Thanks. I'm just wondering if his defense is good enough to rest Guillen like Nefe did when we are blowing people out. That's the only time I liked using Nefe (because his defense was solid). We could slide Inge to SS and play him at 3B as a defensive replacement if he's more adept to playing there.

I don't know how well Inge would do at SS. Yes, he played it before, but he's become pretty comfortable at 3B and unless he was practicing some shortstop, that's a bit of a change. He'd do alright fielding I think, but what about covering second and communicating with the second baseman? Its not something you just jump into and can do. Maybe if he'd practiced it a few times this year he'd be fine though.

Leyland did mention the ability to move Inge to SS if necessary with Raburn at 3B. I don't know what would have to happen to get to that point. There would need to be multiple injuries, IMO.

Another bit on Raburn, for the last few years he's been almost exclusively OF, but I think he takes infield ground balls either every other day or once a week. I can't remember the quote. I'll try to find the article I read. I think it was on the team site.

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070706&content_id=2070949&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

There it is. Here's a quote from it that I was referring to:

Raburn came up through the farm system as an infielder before being converted to the outfield last year. When the Tigers sent him to Minor League camp near the end of March, Leyland told him to keep working out at second and third base to increase his utility. Raburn's playing time has all come in center and left field, but he has taken ground balls in the infield every other day.

That work might well have been the difference that got him up here.

"He can play center field," Leyland said. "He can play second base and third base. We felt like [fellow Mud Hen] Timo Perez would've been a great choice, but with the infielder being gone, we felt like at least he could play second and third. He can't play short, but I can move [third baseman Brandon] Inge over if I have to. So we actually went for the versatility."

Why would they convert him to OF? They already have Thames and Granderson up here. Plus they had Gomez, Maybin and that other good CF in the mix coming up. They really didn't need anymore OF prospects.

And I think Inge would be fine there with a few practices just to refresh things. I've never played 2B in my life and play it in rec leagues (I played 3B back in the day). After a couple games I got used to recognizing when to cover and when to be the cut off man, etc. I'm sure a guy who has actually played SS, and also plays major league ball and is 1,000 times the ball player I am could adapt easily. Especially from 3B to short, where you are still throwing with the same motion (as opposed to 2B where you have to turn to throw to 1B).

And I think Inge would be fine there with a few practices just to refresh things. I've never played 2B in my life and play it in rec leagues (I played 3B back in the day). After a couple games I got used to recognizing when to cover and when to be the cut off man, etc. I'm sure a guy who has actually played SS, and also plays major league ball and is 1,000 times the ball player I am could adapt easily. Especially from 3B to short, where you are still throwing with the same motion (as opposed to 2B where you have to turn to throw to 1B).
I meant it as more of a sudden in-game switch when he wasn't prepared. That wouldn't work too well. If it was a move they'd planned on I'm sure he'd be fine.

Well, at this point they have to prepare for it. Because you're either bringing in the call up or Inge out of position if you don't practice it. Didn't Shef play 3B at one time? I suspect Pudge could play it as well though I've never seen him do it.

And maybe he was moved to OF because they didn't think he was a good enough infielder to be an every day player there. Good enough to be a utility guy but not good enough to be a starter.

Baseball Prospectus is free this week if anyone is interested in checking it out.


http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6431

Placido Polanco will definitely miss the All-Star Game, but why is a bit unclear. Variously reported as a strained lat, strained rib cage, and back spasms—all very different injuries—it took several calls to get a definitive answer. The injury appears to be a strained lat, with Polanco's description of it causing the varying reports. Jim Leyland has referred to it as a back spasm, which tells us the muscle is still in the acute stage of distress, while Polanco has described it as his side. The injury shouldn't send him to the DL, but lat strains can linger. With the break coming at an opportune time, it's tough to tell yet how much, if any, time Polanco will miss.

I just heard audio of Leyland announcing the starting lineup and Polanco was still in it. Weird.

Polonco probably asked for 1 AB (how many times is he going to get voted in by fans really?) and then I could see Leyland putting Cano in there.

That guy's info is sometimes a day old too. If he woke up Monday feeling better, he might have asked to play again.

Jul 19 Thames' hamstring injury looks pretty significant, SportsTicker reports.

Recommendation: "He's not good," Tigers manager Jim Leyland said. "The catch might be a little expensive." With Craig Monroe also hurting, the Tigers' outfield suddenly has depth issues.

Raburn in LF. Much better than going with Craig even if he wasn't hurt. He's getting the job done.

Omar is an option there too. You could put Shef there, but there isn't anyone to DH then (that can't play OF themself), so that won't happen.

It's possible that Craig or Marcus get to the point where they can hit before they get to the point they can play defense. Not an ideal situation by any stretch, but perhaps one that might see Sheff in LF.

Is there speculation that Thames injury is serious enough for him to go on the DL?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=txtigersthames&prov=st&type=lgns
Timooooooooo!

Tigers place OF-1B Thames on DL
July 19, 2007
MINNEAPOLIS (TICKER) -- The Detroit Tigers (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/det/;_ylt=Ap.BvZKegUHrHtEwb.eqDtvavrYF) on Thursday placed outfielder-first baseman Marcus Thames (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6943/;_ylt=Avx0J06zsR6bK9B1zNECfLbavrYF) on the 15-day disabled list with an injured left hamstring.
Thames suffered the injury while making a diving catch in left field during the eighth inning of Wednesday night's 3-2 win over the Minnesota Twins (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/min/;_ylt=AkN2pLbv5dng5b4MBWPCEyLavrYF).
Thames is batting .252 this season with 11 home runs and 32 RBI.
To take Thames' place on the roster, the Tigers purchased the contract of Timo Perez (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6568/;_ylt=AiCLTIeWc4q1kLBBDtBdlq3avrYF) from Class AAA Toledo. Perez was batting .322 for the Mud Hens with 10 home runs and 48 RBI. Perez is expected to join the Tigers on Thursday and start in left field against the Twins.

Damn, Marcus was big over the past few weeks, too.

Hopefully it's not torn.

I was hoping for Maybin... lol. Haven't heard much about him lately.

I know there were very close to calling up Timo instead of Raburn, but at that time it was ultimately Raburn's ability to play the two infield spots that got him the nod. They've been very excited about Timo. With a name like Timo, wouldn't you be inclined to speak in the third person a lot?

Tigers put Rogers on DL

The Detroit Tigers placed pitcher Kenny Rogers on the 15-day disabled list with left elbow inflammation on Sunday. The move is retroactive to July 26.

Rogers is 3-2 with a 5.23 ERA in just six starts this season.

The 42-year-old lefty missed the first half of the campaign after undergoing surgery in March to remove a blood clot from his left shoulder and did not make his season debut until June 22.

Rogers won 17 games for the Tigers last year and helped the team to the World Series.

To take his spot in the rotation, the Tigers recalled pitcher Jordan Tata from Triple-A Toledo.
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=/mlb/news/AAN4094081.htm

I wonder if Kenny is done?

Tata's starting today.

The bleeding isn't likely to stop any time soon, even if the A's have no O.

Let's hope Verlander can get us back on track.

Let's hope Verlander can get us back on track.

That's only going to happen if he pitches a CG.

Sad but probably true. If he can get us 8 solid innings and a couple run cusion then Jones might be able to close it out.

We actually need all our SPs to pitch CG and give this hoorible bullpen a rest. As much as I like to rip them, our starters haven't been doing them any favors. The number of quality starts recently has taken a nosedive, and with the exception of Verlander's 7 innings against the White Sox, our starters have averaged 4.1 innings over the last 6 games. No surprise we've only won a single game in our last 7.

Rodney had his second outing with Toledo yesterday. 1 inning, 1 hit, 0 R, 1 K. In his 2 outings now he has allowed 1 hit and 1 walk while striking out 3 over 2 innings. He'll likely have one more outing there before he's called up.

See ya Grilli.

(or Miner)

I hope Kenny comes back soon. I'm going to the game next Friday and that would be his start (if he comes back immediately off the 15 day DL).

motherfuck


Sheffield 'concerned' with pain in shoulder
August 2, 2007

BY JOHN LOWE
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

OAKLAND, Calif. -- There was concern on Gary Sheffield's face and in his voice after Wednesday's game as he talked about how his right shoulder continues to rob him of his extra-base power.

Sheffield will have a medical exam on the shoulder in the next few days in Detroit. Neither Sheffield nor Tigers manager Jim Leyland speculated if he might have to miss any games to rest the shoulder.

"I am concerned, because I know if it's the worst-case scenario, I'm thinking about long-term and what I'm going to do about it," Sheffield said. "I don't even want to think about the worst-case scenario right now."

Sheffield has had trouble with the shoulder for years. He aggravated it a week ago Saturday when he was playing the outfield and collided with second baseman Placido Polanco. A few days after that, he got a cortisone shot in the shoulder, then sat out two games.

Sheffield said this is the first time a cortisone shot hasn't alleviated problems with the shoulder. He said the shoulder trouble is causing numbness in his right hand when he bats.

In his six games since he got the shot, Sheffield is 4-for-23 with no extra-base hits and no RBIs.

"I just don't feel comfortable when I'm up there (at bat)," Sheffield said. "When I want to fire, it's not firing ... I just don't feel strong.

"When I wiggle the bat, I get numbness in my hand," Sheffield said. "It's been there every game I've played since the shot ... The numbness is what I don't understand. That's probably what is frustrating me more than anything else. I can deal with pain, but when it's a nerve . . . "

RODNEY UPDATE: Reliever Fernando Rodney threw 15 pitches for Triple-A Toledo Wednesday night. He went one-third of an inning and allowed a walk and a hit to Charlotte. The club's plan was that if Rodney felt good and had his normal velocity on Wednesday, he could come off the disabled list and rejoin the Tigers this weekend.

Hopefully a few days of rest is all that Sheff needs. We can't afford to lose his bat for any significant period of time.

When is Thames due to return anyways?

Thames they said in a couple weeks I think. Hopefully Guillen gets enough rest to come back so his bat and Shef's are both not in there.

TIGER TROUBLE: When Gary Sheffield homers, the Tigers are 18-3. When he doesn't, they're 43-43.

Wow, that's insane.

Tigs place Miller on DL; Rodney recalled

The Tigers injury problems are getting worse.

The team placed lefthanded pitcher Andrew Miller on the 15-day disabled list with a left hamstring strain today.

To take Miller’s spot on the club’s roster, the Tigers recalled reliever Fernando Rodney from Triple-A Toledo.

Miller has started 11 games for the Tigers this season, compiling a 5-4 record and 4.42 ERA (59.0IP/29ER). He left his start last night versus Chicago after four innings.

Rodney has been on the disabled list since June 24 with right shoulder tendinitis.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070804/SPORTS02/70804012/1050

Casey hurt his elbow too BTW. He expects to still play, but this is getting rediculous.

Rob Parker picked this team to miss the playoffs this year and with the way things are going it's pretty hard to disagree with him.

Setback delays Rogers' return from DL
ESPN.com news services

Updated: August 6, 2007, 11:50 AM ET

The Tigers are in free-fall mode and Kenny Rogers won't be riding to their rescue this week as had been hoped.

Detroit's veteran lefty had a setback in a throwing session Sunday as he tries to return from a strained pitching elbow. Rogers would be eligible to return from the disabled list on Friday, but that won't happen now. Manager Jim Leyland said Sunday that Rogers would likely miss more than one start, according to the Detroit Free Press.

"I'm frustrated, without a doubt," Rogers said, according to the Free Press. "I'm not happy being out, much less not being ready as fast as we need."

Detroit, which had the best record in baseball on July 21, has gone 3-12 since and has lost nine of its last 10. Rookie lefty Andrew Miller also was placed on the disabled list this week with a left hamstring strain, leaving the Tigers without two of their rotation members during the stretch run. The Tigers currently lead the wild-card race, but lead the Yankees and Mariners by just a half-game.

Top-of-the-rotation starter Jeremy Bonderman (10-4, 4.50 ERA), part of Detroit's one-two punch with Justin Verlander, also has struggled, allowing 21 earned runs in losing three straight starts.

Rogers is 3-2 with a 5.23 ERA in just six starts this season. The four-time All-Star missed the Tigers' first 71 games after undergoing surgery on March 30 to remove a blood clot from his left shoulder and repair arteries. This the third time the 42-year-old has been on the DL in his 19-year big league career.

Rogers was 17-8 with a 3.48 ERA last year and won all three of his postseason starts while not allowing a run in 23 innings for the defending AL champions.

I'm beginning to think the Tigers should hire Arnie Kander.

I think my fantasy team is modeled after the current Tigers right now. Soriano, Pedro, Victorino (top 40 fantasy player before getting hurt), Fuentes, Andrew Miller all on the DL right now.

Any idea when we might see Sheff play again?

Aug 8 The Detroit Free Press reports Detroit Tigers RP Joel Zumaya (wrist) is due to throw with batters standing (but not swinging) at the plate on Friday, Aug. 10. Zumaya's return date remains unclear; he will need a rehab assignment before he is activated.

As bad as we need him, I hope they're not rushing him...

Aug 9 Tim Robinson, of Tigers.MLB.com, reports Detroit Tigers SP Andrew Miller (hamstring) could possibly make a rehab start as soon as Wednesday, Aug. 15.

Tigers activate Thames

Detroit, MI (Sports Network) - The Detroit Tigers activated outfielder Marcus Thames from the 15-day disabled list on Thursday.

Thames has been sidelined since July 19 with a pulled left hamstring. During a two-game rehab stint with Triple-A Toledo, he went 3-for-8 with a homer and two RBI.

For the season, Thames is hitting .252 with 11 homers and 32 RBI.

To make room for Thames, the Tigers optioned infielder Mike Hessman to Toledo. Hessman appeared in nine games with Detroit, batting .179 with a home run and six RBI for the Tigers.

Thames has one of the 3 Tiger hits so far today BTW.

Aug 14 Zumaya (finger) retired two of the three batters he faced in his first rehab appearance for Triple-A Toledo on Monday. His fastball topped out at 94 mph, the Detroit Free Press reports.

Recommendation: "It was his first time out, and he was a little rusty. You could tell," Toledo manager Mike Rojas said. "He looked fine and feels good, so that's the best news." Zumaya is scheduled to pitch again on Wednesday and will be limited to one inning or 20 pitches. He is on pace to join the Tigers as soon as next Tuesday.

If Bondo can get back on track maybe we can bury these damn indians in the next couple weeks.

Miller is starting for Toledo tonight at Richmond.

Aug 16 Zumaya (finger) pitched a 1-2-3 inning in his second rehab appearance Wednesday, the Detroit Free Press reports.

Recommendation: Zumaya threw seven pitches, six of which were strikes. He clocked as high as 99 mph on the radar gun with an average of 96 mph on five fastballs. Zumaya has one more rehab appearance on Saturday and will likely be activated from the disabled list early next week.

Polanco, Monroe, Pudge, Jones & Verlander have all had the flu this week.

Verlander is scheduled to start tonight, so let's hope he's feeling up to it.

I think we should have run those guys out there as pinch runners against the Indians to expose them to the flu. Just get a couple guys real good, then they can spread it through their clubhouse.

im not sure biological warfare is considered good etiquette by the baseball elite.

im not sure biological warfare is considered good etiquette by the baseball elite.

You mean they'd get offended if we put Verlander out there on 1B hacking all over Garko?

Don't use Verlander. He was practically over it and not nearly as contagious anymore. Use Pudge. He had it nice and fresh.

Sure, it's not good etiquette, but in the land of chaw and nut scratching I wouldn't exactly feel like I was wearing muddy shoes in a white mansion.

Is it worse than A-Rod yelling at that 3B running by?

Is it worse than A-Rod yelling at that 3B running by?
Or slapping the ball out of the 1B glove a few years back.

Zumaya update: Joel Zumaya pitched 1 1/3 innings Saturday in what is expected to be his final rehab appearance for Triple-A Toledo, allowing two runs on two hits with two walks and a strikeout.

Zumaya's fastball topped out at 99 miles per hour on the radar gun at Fifth Third Field, and sat regularly closer to 96. He threw 20 of his 31 pitches for strikes.

Speaking of Sheffield: While the numbness is gone from his shoulder, Sheffield admits that he's still regaining strength. He isn't sure whether the still-recovering shoulder is affecting his swing, but the stats suggest he's still struggling with it. He entered Saturday batting .175 (7-for-40) with a double, home run and four RBIs since coming back from his medication regimen, though part of that was an 0-for-9 slump through the first two games of this series before he doubled in the first inning on Saturday.

"I'm trying," Sheffield said. "I'm getting in here and doing the exercises the trainers tell me to. They're putting me through a grueling regimen like the pitchers. But when you damage your nerve, the last thing to come back is the strength."

Short Monday for Miller: Andrew Miller is scheduled to pitch three innings or 50 pitches on Monday in his second rehab start for Triple-A Toledo, with Leyland and most of his coaching staff in attendance. It's a pitch count that has a motive behind it.

"I have a plan," Leyland said.

He didn't elaborate, but the shorter start could leave him available to either join the bullpen or rejoin the Tigers rotation on short rest, especially if the team decides to keep rookie Jair Jurrjens beyond his next start. Jurrjens would be on track for next Sunday versus the Yankees after starting Tuesday's opener against Cleveland.

Flu report: Placido Polanco is questionable for Sunday after missing his fifth straight Saturday in his recovery from the flu. He took ground balls during batting practice Saturday afternoon, but tired near the end of the session, according to Leyland.

That seemed to be the lone remaining flu-related issue on the club after the virus left the Tigers shorthanded for most of the week.

"The viral thing is almost gone," Leyland said.
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070818&content_id=2156164&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

Short Monday for Miller: Andrew Miller is scheduled to pitch three innings or 50 pitches on Monday in his second rehab start for Triple-A Toledo, with Leyland and most of his coaching staff in attendance. It's a pitch count that has a motive behind it.

"I have a plan," Leyland said.

He didn't elaborate, but the shorter start could leave him available to either join the bullpen or rejoin the Tigers rotation on short rest, especially if the team decides to keep rookie Jair Jurrjens beyond his next start. Jurrjens would be on track for next Sunday versus the Yankees after starting Tuesday's opener against Cleveland.

To me, this sounds like Miller is headed to the bullpen. I would guess that either Jurrjens impressed enough to stay in the rotation, or Kenny is almost ready.

Durbin looked decent yesterday, too, but he certainly cannot be relied on consistently.

Either Durbin or Miller is starting Friday. The other will end up in the bull pen I am sure.

Reeling Tigers activate hard-throwing reliever Zumaya


DETROIT -- The Detroit Tigers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=det) recalled Joel Zumaya (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7630) from his rehabilitation assignment and optioned Aquilino Lopez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7098) to Triple-A Toledo, making the hard-throwing reliever available for Tuesday night's game against the Cleveland Indians (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=cle).
Zumaya, whose fastball regularly tops 100 mph, had surgery three months ago to repair a ruptured tendon in his right middle finger. He was put on the disabled list May 3 with a 1-1 record, 3.63 ERA and 17 strikeouts in 13 appearances this season.
The right-handed setup man ranked third among AL relievers with 97 strikeouts last season, helping Detroit reach the playoffs for the first time since 1987 and advance to the World Series for the first time since 1984.
The slumping Tigers open a homestand Tuesday night against Cleveland, which has a 1½-game lead over them in the AL Central, before starting a four-game series with the New York Yankees (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy), who lead Detroit by 2½ games in the wild-card race.
Since the Tigers had the best record in baseball on July 21, they are 9-20.
Lopez had one save and a 5.19 ERA in 10 games for Detroit. He struck out seven and walked six over 17 1/3 innings.

Aug 21 Miller (hamstring) looked good in his rehab start Monday, needing only 34 pitches to get through his three scheduled innings, the Detroit Free Press reports.

Recommendation: Miller allowed one earned run and one hit while also striking out five. "It felt good -- threw some more strikes, didn't walk anybody; I think those are positives," Miller said. "The leg feels great. It hasn't bothered me in a while." Miller could be activated from the disabled list this weekend to face the Yankees.

Fighting the flu bug
posted: Monday, August 20, 2007

We just made it back last night from a six-day road trip and are in desperate need of an off-day, which we have today. The flu bug or something has hit our team for the second time this season. It started about a week to a week and a half ago when Justin Verlander and Kenny Rogers came down with it. They both were under the weather, but around this time of year, with the seasons changing, you think it might just be allergies. Next thing you know, Placido Polanco, Joel Zumaya, Bobby Seay, Craig Monroe, Pudge Rodriguez, Scott Pickens (bullpen catcher), Rafael Belliard (infield coach), and even trainers Steve Carter and Kevin Rand all came down with it.

Guys on the team are trying to wash their hands whenever possible and are walking around with their shirts and jerseys over their faces (like we think it really will keep the germs out) to try to prevent catching the virus. The bad thing about being on the road and guys getting sick is that, no matter what, there really is no way to get away from them. We are together in the clubhouse for hours at a time, and when we have to travel to the next city, we are on the same plane. The team even tried flying Kenny and Justin on separate days to keep them as far away from us as possible. But the damage had already been done, and it started to spread. I have been fortunate that the only thing I really caught was an upset stomach for about three days. I know it wasn't nearly as bad as it was for the other guys, but I'm really happy we don't have roommates. Plus, the training room had a good supply of Tums, and I needed them all three days I felt ill.

Hopefully, this off-day will give everybody a chance to rest up and knock the little bug out of our systems. Then we can get ready for another tough week at home.

Lastly, I know it's been awhile since I plugged a restaurant in the blog, but this one really took care of me while I was in New York City, and I greatly appreciate them doing that.

I want to thank Chris Montpetit and Kevin Hooshangi, owners of Village Pourhouse in New York, for taking care of my friends and me this past weekend. The Pourhouse just celebrated its first anniversary and is a great bar for college students and people who might have attended college 10-20 years ago. It's good for drinks, food and watching sports throughout the year, and it also plays good music late at night. It's located at 64 Third Avenue.

The restaurant plug is great.

You need to get him into your place when they play the White Sox next time, Vinny.

Zumaya 'pumped' about return

by Danny KnoblerWednesday August 22, 2007, 12:08 AM



DETROIT -- He promised he would be good. "I'm going to go out there and carve some people up," Joel Zumaya said Tuesday afternoon.
This was his big return to the Detroit Tigers, his long-awaited return. He was so excited that he said he barely slept Monday night. Excited to be back. Excited to face the team the Tigers will have to beat out to win the American League Central.
"This (Cleveland) series to me is almost like the Yankee series last year, the playoff series," Zumaya said. "My best stuff is going to have to come out now, and for the rest of the season.
"I'm really pumped. If Leyland needs me for two or three innings I'll do it. If he needs me back-to-back-to-back (days), I'm there."
Jim Leyland needed him for just one batter Tuesday. Zumaya came on with two outs in the seventh inning, with Travis Hafner at first base representing the tying run and Ryan Garko stepping to the plate.
Five Zumaya fastballs later, Garko was retired on a ground ball to second base.
And in Zumaya's mind, only one thing could have made it better.
"I could have struck the guy out," he said.

Miller "looked outstanding": This will be a week of returns for the Tigers, because Andrew Miller will come off the disabled list to start Friday night against Roger Clemens and the New York Yankees. Miller will take the spot of Chad Durbin, who will move back to the bullpen.
Miller struggled in his past few starts before going on the DL, but Leyland was impressed by the way he pitched in a Monday night rehabilitation start for Triple-A Toledo.
"He looked outstanding," said Leyland, who was at the game. "Best I've ever seen him. He looked absolutely outstanding. He looked like a big-league pitcher."
Miller's first minor-league rehabilitation start was not much better as he allowed five runs and needed 75 pitches to make it through three innings. Monday was different, and Miller threw just 34 pitches in three innings.
"Everything felt like it should," Miller said. "The ball was going where it was supposed to."

Inge not benched: Brandon Inge was out of the Tigers starting lineup Tuesday, just as Leyland said he would be. But this was not a benching, as some had suggested and Leyland already has told Inge that he will play tonight.
"Brandon Inge isn't in jail," Leyland said. "But I'm going to tell him, in a kidding way, if you're getting pitched like Ted Williams and Babe Ruth, then every now and then you've got to hit like Ted Williams and Babe Ruth."

Rogers makes progress: Kenny Rogers got through his first bullpen session in more than three weeks with no trouble Tuesday, and Rogers is now scheduled to throw a full bullpen on Thursday.
"The main thing is not having any setbacks," said Rogers, who has suggested he could make a start as soon as this weekend. "I don't have any time to have a setback."

Heater war: Zumaya on Yankees rookie Joba Chamberlain: "You know he throws hard, and I heard he has a tendency to look back at the radar gun, too. We'll have a little duel, play a little burnout, see who throws harder."

No "rules" for Zumaya: The Yankees have what they call Joba Rules, which keep manager Joe Torre from using Chamberlain on back-to-back days. Leyland said there will be no such restrictions on Zumaya, although he said he will watch him closely. "If he wasn't healthy, he wouldn't be here," Leyland said.

A cut to come: Durbin will return to the bullpen, so the Tigers will have to cut another reliever in order to activate Miller.

A first: Before Tuesday, the Indians had never played a game where they had just one hit, with the hit being a home run.

Jurrjens to the 15-day DL with a shoulder

Anybody hear if he's expected back this year?

Jurrjens to the 15-day DL with a shoulder

Anybody hear if he's expected back this year?

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070826&content_id=2171531&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det


Jurrjens sent to DL with inflammation

08/26/2007 5:45 PM ET
By Jason Beck / MLB.com

DETROIT -- Jair Jurrjens has been living his dream ever since being called up to the Major Leagues. His dream is now on hold for a couple of weeks, but it doesn't appear to be the nightmare many feared.

Inflammation in Jurrjens' right rotator cuff knocked the 21-year-old Tigers starter out of Sunday's game against the Yankees in the second inning and put him on the 15-day disabled list. Results of an MRI exam, however, suggest no damage that would require surgery.

That part is a relief, especially the way Jurrjens was feeling on Sunday.

"It's like you can see your dream going away," Jurrjens said. "I'm happy that it's not a real big thing."

Though Jurrjens lasted 1 1/3 innings before his exit, he had been feeling the shoulder pain in the days leading into Sunday's start. In fact, it's something he has dealt with before. He expected the discomfort to go away once he loosened up and began working. This time, it didn't.

Jurrjens had hoped he could get through it once he retired the side on one hit in the first inning, capped with a strikeout of Alex Rodriguez. His fastball was sitting around 90-91 mph, not the mid-90s version he flashed in his Major League debut on Aug. 15, but still workable. Then he came back out for the second inning and fired a first-pitch fastball.

"The first pitch I threw to [Hideki] Matsui, I turned around to look at the radar," Jurrjens said. "I saw 86 and I was like, 'Oh my, this is going to be bad.' I tried to get through it. We had a big lead, and I didn't want it to go away."

Jurrjens struck out Matsui on an 89-mph fastball, but he fell behind on back-to-back offspeed pitches to Jason Giambi. Forced to come over the plate, he fired in a fastball at 87 mph. Giambi deposited it into the right-field seats for his 12th home run of the season.

Catcher Ivan Rodriguez came to the mound for a visit and almost immediately called for manager Jim Leyland and head athletic trainer Kevin Rand. Rodriguez pointed to his right shoulder and signaled that Jurrjens couldn't go on.

Jurrjens has had shoulder problems before, most recently a strain that forced him onto the DL at Double-A Erie near the end of last season. That pain, he explained, was lower in his shoulder, around the lat area. This recent pain, by comparison, is around the back of the shoulder.

Chad Durbin replaced Jurrjens and began a procession of relievers who held onto the lead for a 5-4 Tigers victory. Now, the Tigers have to figure what to do with their rotation. The club has no off-days next week, so Leyland can't skip Jurrjens' spot. Moreover, that spot comes up in the series opener at Oakland on Friday, the day before Major League rosters expand from 25 to anyone on the 40-man roster.

The Tigers had no decision yet as of Sunday afternoon. Their options would be to either move Durbin in from the bullpen, which they did earlier this month when Kenny Rogers went on the DL, or make a move to call up someone from the Minor Leagues. Virgil Vasquez would be on turn after starting for Triple-A Toledo on Sunday, posting seven innings of one-run ball.

The Tigers had passed on recalling Vasquez two weeks ago in favor of Jurrjens, whose back-to-back effective starts against the Indians kept him in the rotation instead of Durbin once Andrew Miller returned from the DL after straining his left hamstring.

Rogers is not yet ready to rejoin the rotation, according to the Tigers. His command on his pitches wasn't yet where it needed to be during his pregame bullpen session on Friday.

Right-hander Zach Miner was recalled from Toledo to fill Jurrjens' roster spot.





Anybody know how we got this Miner fella?

Playing catch: Jair Jurrjens was able to play catch Saturday, for the first time since he went on the disabled list last week with a sore right shoulder. Leyland said again that when Jurrjens is able to return, he'll strictly be used out of the bullpen.

I'm taking this as good news. An injured Jurrjens is probably better than a {insert any Tigers reliever not nicknamed Zoooooom}.

I think Jurrjens can be a stellar #5 in the rotation, so I hope his injury isn't too serious.

On a side note, ironically, everyone in the pen's been better than Zumaya since his return.

Ouch. I haven't been able to catch much baseball lately. I guess Jurrjens > Whole Tigers Bullpen

On a side note, ironically, everyone in the pen's been better than Zumaya since his return.

He's given up what? 4 runs in like 4 or 5 appearences?

Meanwhile Jason fucking Grilli, Bobby Seay, and co. have been great. Go figure.

Sep 3 Rogers (elbow) will rejoin the Detroit rotation on Wednesday to start against the White Sox, the Tigers' official site reports.

Recommendation: Rogers last started July 25, when he gave up seven runs over four innings against the White Sox. He then went on the disabled list with inflammation in his left elbow and has been trying to work his way back since. He likely won't be able to go deep into the game on Wednesday as he hasn't really been stretched out yet.

Upbeat Sheffield set for return

by Danny KnoblerWednesday September 05, 2007, 12:34 AM





DETROIT -- Gary Sheffield says he will be back Thursday for the final 23 games of the Detroit Tigers' season.
Or, he hopes, a few more games than that.
"The whole key is to get me through the rest of this year, the playoffs and the World Series," Sheffield said Tuesday, when he rejoined the Tigers after a week working in Florida with his longtime trainer. "I've got to be in that mindset."
Sheffield's mindset seems to be good, much better than it has been at any time since July 21, when a fall in the outfield aggravated his right shoulder and began a long road that led to the disabled list. Sheffield tried three times to play through the pain, deciding each time that he couldn't be effective at the plate.
He said Tuesday that he doesn't think he needs another cortisone shot, and that he is now hopeful the shoulder won't require surgery this winter. He credits his work with Larry Mayol, the trainer Sheffield refers to as "Military Larry."
Sheffield worked out with Mayol for 3-4 hours a day over the past week, and when he picked up a bat last Friday, he noticed the difference almost immediately.
"I was able to finish my swing," Sheffield said.
He's not eligible to come off the DL until Thursday, but he took extra batting practice Tuesday and plans to do the same today. Then, barring a setback, he will be back.
"If he's ready to hit, he's going to be in the lineup," manager Jim Leyland said. "You can take that to the bank. I can't wait to get Sheff back in the lineup, but I don't know what will happen. Is he going to be rusty? Or is he going to start hitting right away like Gary Sheffield can?"
There's one other question, of course. Have the Tigers dug themselves too deep a hole in Sheffield's absence for him to make a difference?
Entering play Tuesday, they were 15-27 since his July 21 fall.
"Am I concerned? No, because we can do something about it," Sheffield said. "The bottom line is we're a good team. We showed that earlier when we were healthy."

TIGERS NOTES
The great unknown: Kenny Rogers comes off the disabled list to face Chicago tonight, but Leyland doesn't know what to expect from him, either.
"I have no idea," Leyland said. "I just know that he wants to pitch, he's ready to pitch and he's pitching. I know that whatever he's got, he's going to give us."
Rogers will be making his first start since July 25, when he gave up four White Sox home runs in four innings. Four days after that, Rogers went on the DL with soreness in his left elbow.


Ordonez honored: Magglio Ordonez was named the American League player of the month for August, the first Tiger to win player of the month honors since Ivan Rodriguez in June 2004. Ordonez hit .393 in August, with 10 home runs and 31 RBIs.


Hessman likely to start at third: Leyland said he plans to rest Ordonez's sore left heel tonight, and play Ryan Raburn in right field. He also said that he would likely start Mike Hessman at third base in place of the slumping Brandon Inge.


Hard to fill hole: The Tigers have now used five different third-place hitters in the 13 games since Sheffield went on the DL. Omar Infante is the latest, as Leyland chose him to bat third Tuesday against White Sox right-hander Jon Garland. Infante was 15-for-35 in his career against Garland before Tuesday.


Maybin to see more bench time: Leyland said that with Sheffield coming back, rookie Cameron Maybin probably won't get many starts the rest of the season.


Postseason tickets: There may not be any postseason for the Tigers, but there will be an online drawing for possible postseason tickets. Registration for the drawing begin today at noon, at tigers.com (http://tigers.com/). Fans without Internet access can register by calling (313) 471-BALL.

Sep 5
Updating a previous report, Jason Beck, of Tigers.MLB.com, reports Detroit Tigers manager Jim Leyland confirmed that SP Jeremy Bonderman (elbow) may have a minor injury to his elbow. "I think his elbow's been hurting a little bit," Leyland said, "but I don't think it's anything significant. The medical people don't believe it's anything serious."

At least we have excuses as to why we missed the playoffs.

Forgive me if this is old news, but Jurrjens will likely start on Tuesday in game 2 of the double header. I hope he is healthy, I really liked what I saw from him in his 2 starts.

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2007/09/jurrjens_the_probable_starter.html