and some fat dude.

Fosters not just a fat dude, he can play. Also Lions get a 5th rounder. Best move Millen has made in a long time. Trade a disgruntled player who does not fit the system for a 2nd round running back, a decent offensive lineman, and a 5th round pick.

and some fat dude.

I prefer the term "big boned". Thank you very much.

All joking aside I hope darko is right. Because if he's wrong and Foster stinks, we got friggin robbed, and the Broncos now have the best CB duo in the L.

Link or something? It's not on NFL.com or ESPN.com...

Which Bell? Tatum or the guy they just drafted last year?

Well, Denver benched him for not trying hard enough, so he should fit right in.

The Detroit Lions (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=det) have agreed to send cornerback Dre' Bly (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4690) to the Denver Broncos (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=den) in exchange for running back Tatum Bell (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6800), tackle George Foster (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6356) and a draft choice, believed to be a fifth-round pick.

Trades cannot become official until Friday, the first day of the league year.

Bly has one year remaining on the $22 million free-agent contract he signed in 2003 and the Broncos are expected to begin working on a long-term agreement with McGuire.


Bell, 25, became a starter for the first time last season, his third, and led the Broncos with 1,025 rushing yards. In three seasons with the Broncos he has rushed for 2,342 yards and 13 touchdowns and owns a career yards-per-carry average of 4.9. The speedy Bell provides depth and insurance for the Lions in the event top back Kevin Jones (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6789)' foot injury keeps him sidelined into next season.


Foster started 45 out of a possible 48 games the past three seasons at right tackle. The Lions were last in the league in rushing and allowed the second-most sacks (63) last season, so improving the offensive line is one of the team's top offseason priorities.

Does this end the possibility of Joe Thomas? I hope so. I don't think we can use the #2 pick on a RT and pay him that money.

we need joe thomas SO bad

I don't know if it's a sure thing that Foster fits here, the Denver o-line is generally light and nimble. Maybe Foster didn't fit them though.

It's not like Detroit was going to hang onto Bly anyway. At least they got something for him. This paves the way for them to draft Quinn in the first. There should also be corners left on the board by the time their second round pick comes up.

i'll bet my life that joe thomas wins a superbowl, and neither the lions or the dude they draft #2 (or 5, or whatever) do.

We could still take Thomas and have Foster play a guard spot for us. Like Luniz said, Denver's offensive linemen are generally light and nimble. Maybe he wasn't quite strong enough to play tackle but wasn't quick enough to be a guard in their system. I don't know anything about him so I'm just guessing.

Is Millen still our GM? This is a pretty good deal, especially considering that Bly wasn't going to play another game for us.

This just in: Mike Shanahan likes trade his RBs for DBs.

Not a bad deal for either side.

The more I think about this, the more I worry. Denver pumps out 1000 yard rushers like nothing. How good is this guy actually going to be for us? I'm excited and worried at the same time.

Olandis Gary II?

yea, portis really hasnt been a wolrd beater in washington, either. i wonder what the conversation rate is. consider that td and barry got 2000 yards at roughly the same time. barry, of course, earned it and more. td was good, but he wouldnt have even dreamed of 2k in detroit. i realize this was like 10 years ago (wow), but the more things change...

and if you like this trade, remember who made it. this isnt a broken clock being right twice a day, this is an asshole is an asshole is an asshole. and you know what comes out of an asshole? shit.

im all for dropping bly. but this is going to lead to us passing on thomas. my gues is it also fucks up our cap, too.

The more I think about this, the more I worry. Denver pumps out 1000 yard rushers like nothing. How good is this guy actually going to be for us? I'm excited and worried at the same time.


It's hard to worry about it when Bly is an average corner who was disgruntled here. I'm shocked we got as much as we did....

The only thing that would make me doubt this trade even a little is if we stay at 2 and pass on Joe Thomas....

Denver can throw anyone behind that line but you gotta love Bell's speed...

Portis has been very good in Washington when healthy and Droughns has played pretty good for Cleveland yardage wise..

Obviously we all have Olandis Gary in our minds but he didn't come here until after a serious injury to his knee... He was damaged goods by the time he arrived here

Olandis Gary II?

Awesome.

BTW, I'm not feeling the trade. Now we've got 2 middle of the road backs (one banged up) and we're definitely not going to take Adrian Peterson. GAAAY!

Yeeeeeah, a white-ass offensive tackle! Sweeeet![smilie=handjob.gif]

[smilie=liones.gif]

yea, portis really hasnt been a wolrd beater in washington, either. i wonder what the conversation rate is. consider that td and barry got 2000 yards at roughly the same time. barry, of course, earned it and more. td was good, but he wouldnt have even dreamed of 2k in detroit. i realize this was like 10 years ago (wow), but the more things change...

and if you like this trade, remember who made it. this isnt a broken clock being right twice a day, this is an asshole is an asshole is an asshole. and you know what comes out of an asshole? shit.

im all for dropping bly. but this is going to lead to us passing on thomas. my gues is it also fucks up our cap, too.

Obviously Portis didn't match his early stats in Washington but his 2005 season in Washington was phenominal... Last year was plagued by injuries though...

I see no reason how it hurts our cap at all... Bly was scheduled to make 4.2 million this year... It's the last year of his deal so we don't run into any accellerated signing bonus reprecussions... I find it hard to believe that Bell (a second round pick) and Foster make more than what Bly would have... If so, it isn't by much...

It's shocking.... but I think Millen has actually made a good move?

Obviously Portis didn't match his early stats in Washington but his 2005 season in Washington was phenominal... Last year was plagued by injuries though...

I see no reason how it hurts our cap at all... Bly was scheduled to make 4.2 million this year... It's the last year of his deal so we don't run into any accellerated signing bonus reprecussions... I find it hard to believe that Bell (a second round pick) and Foster make more than what Bly would have... If so, it isn't by much...

It's shocking.... but I think Millen has actually made a good move?

After looking, Bells caphit is very minimal....The rookie second-round pick ended his three-day holdout Friday night and agreed to a five-year contract worth $3.715 million including a $1.72 million signing bonus, according to a league source. My guess is we save money with this deal

I really like this deal. We get insurance for K. Jones in Bell and a big offensive lineman plus a pick. Now if we can only pull off that trade with Arizona to swap firsts.

I don't know if it's a sure thing that Foster fits here, the Denver o-line is generally light and nimble. Maybe Foster didn't fit them though.

It's not like Detroit was going to hang onto Bly anyway. At least they got something for him. This paves the way for them to draft Quinn in the first. There should also be corners left on the board by the time their second round pick comes up.

Foster is 6'5" 340. That wasn't hard to check. He is way bigger than the 'Bronco sized' OL.

Mood...you are flat out not a realistic fan in most aspects. We need OL like we need the sun to come up in the morning. What the fuck is the point in taking another good RB if he has NOTHING to run behind. We have complained for years that our OL is killing us, and while it might not be a SEXY, BLACK ASS pick, it is something completely necessary to make this team better now and for the long haul.

Mood...you are flat out not a realistic fan in most aspects. We need OL like we need the sun to come up in the morning. What the fuck is the point in taking another good RB if he has NOTHING to run behind. We have complained for years that our OL is killing us, and while it might not be a SEXY, BLACK ASS pick, it is something completely necessary to make this team better now and for the long haul.

Was thinking the same thing.[smilie=alpaca.gif]

I really like the deal. If we didn't move him, we'd probably just cut him and take the cap hit. This way we save cap space, get a fill in for Jones (and a change of pace back when KJ is back), we get a RT that may or may not work out, and a 5th rounder (who knows, maybe you find a gem like Colston or Brady).

I'm really hoping Oakland does the deal with GB and Moss is gone. Then they can take Johnson 1st (we are going to sign Curtis anyway) and we can draft Russel. OR, a team might want to move up for CJ or Russel and we can get extra picks and still get an elite DE.

Yeah, I don't get how people are unhappy with getting anything that might be semi-productive in our spots of need out of a guy who was leaving no matter what.

The last report I heard said the Lions gave up their 6th round pick as well (so the 5th they got is essentially a one round upgrade)

Killer made what I thought was a good point on the radio yesterday. Now no one has a clue who the Lions will draft which gives them more leverage if they are trying to trade down their 1st round pick.

Yeah, we have lots of options there. Unfortunately I can't see anyone trading up very high. I remember in the Rivers/Eli trade they gave up quite a few picks just to move from #4 to #1. I'd like us to move down, but we probably can't move much farther than the 5 or 6 range unless we trade down multiple times. I'd love to see two trade downs and end up with the 10 or so pick to take Patrick Willis or the safety from LSU. Then we could fill a lot of holes with the extra 2nd and 3rd rounders.

Yea, I agree w/ trading down the pick. I would love to get Gaines Adams if we could trade down to 6 or 7 w/ arizona or washington. Then hopefully pick up some DBs and OL in rounds 2 and 3.

yea, portis really hasnt been a wolrd beater in washington, either. i wonder what the conversation rate is. consider that td and barry got 2000 yards at roughly the same time. barry, of course, earned it and more. td was good, but he wouldnt have even dreamed of 2k in detroit. i realize this was like 10 years ago (wow), but the more things change...

and if you like this trade, remember who made it. this isnt a broken clock being right twice a day, this is an asshole is an asshole is an asshole. and you know what comes out of an asshole? shit.

im all for dropping bly. but this is going to lead to us passing on thomas. my gues is it also fucks up our cap, too.

Nice comment about assholes, diddy. Couldn't agree more.
In a perfect world, now you'd think the Lions would take Thomas. They get an O Lineman, have another pick to get one, and take Thomas. In one year they have the potential to build a real solid offensive line.
If they suck again this year, then they will have a high pick to take a QB in the next draft (I still like Chad Henne).

I'm not sure how amazing Foster is, since I've never heard anything about him. I don't mean he's a bad lineman because I haven't heard of him, just that I don't know what we're getting. The ESPN scouting report on him had him as the 6th best player in the Broncos, so that's a good sign. Maybe we still draft Thomas and have some solid depth on the line. I wouldn't mind that at all. I don't know enough about Gaines Adams to really make a solid opinion on trading down and picking him up.

I would not draft Thomas. That's a lot of money to pay a RT. I would rather take Staley or another OT in the 2nd/3rd round and get an impact player at #2. RT is not an impact player really.

A tackle isn't an impact player, but it makes other players into impact players. Kevin Jones couldbe a big impact player, but only if we can finally block for him. I don't think people realize just how wretched our offensive line really is.

I realize, I just don't think you can pay Backus and Thomas that kind of money. If we draft Thomas, Backus will end up being cut in a couple years because we can't afford him.

James Hall was just traded to St Louis for a 5th rounder per 1270 AM.

God damn it Chris, now my post looks stupid.

I never liked Hall. That year he had all those sacks, half of them were Baby spooking QBs right into him, or he'd fall on a guy who was already down and get credit.

I was kind of hoping for better with Hall (3rd or 4th, kind of unrealistic yes), but a 5th is better than nothing.

I think if we hadn't made it obvious we were going to cut him today, we might have gotten more than a 5th for him. Maybe a 5th and 6th. Maybe even a 4th. When he's playing great for them and we're sitting here with some 5th rounder struggling to make the team, we're going to look like fools.

You're worried that we're GOING to look like fools??????

You're worried that we're GOING to look like fools??????

LOL, that's what I was thinking. When's the last time he's played a full season? I think he lucked into a lot of sacks because of Big Baby double teams (as mentioned above). He gets the type of sacks Edwards does (right place at right time, not created by his own pressure).

Mood...you are flat out not a realistic fan in most aspects. We need OL like we need the sun to come up in the morning. What the fuck is the point in taking another good RB if he has NOTHING to run behind. We have complained for years that our OL is killing us, and while it might not be a SEXY, BLACK ASS pick, it is something completely necessary to make this team better now and for the long haul.

Hey, I look at it Madden-Franchise style baby boy!

I just think you need a game changer at the #2 pick. Who knows how good Thomas will be. Is he a lock to be a stud LT for years? Look at Robert Gallery. He was supposed to be the next big thing, and Becca's boy is flat out not getting it done. Pick a lineman in the 2nd round and via free agency.

AD is going to be one of the greatest of all time....book it.

Hey, I look at it Madden-Franchise style baby boy!

I just think you need a game changer at the #2 pick. Who knows how good Thomas will be. Is he a lock to be a stud LT for years? Look at Robert Gallery. He was supposed to be the next big thing, and Becca's boy is flat out not getting it done. Pick a lineman in the 2nd round and via free agency.

AD is going to be one of the greatest of all time....book it.


Good point, look at Ki-Jana Carter.

And Curtis Enis.

It doesn't matter the position, any player can be a bust or stud. There is no clear answer.

And Curtis Enis.

It doesn't matter the position, any player can be a bust or stud. There is no clear answer.

Yeah, I took a look at the top 5 picks in each draft from the past 15 years or so and just about every one has a bust. It seems the biggest risk is QB's and players from University of Texas. Aside from those already mentioned, here are some busts (or at least underacheivers given their draft postition).

QB -
Tim Couch
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Akili Smith
Ryan Leaf
Heath Schuler
Rick Mirer

WR -
Charles Rogers
Peter Warrick
Michael Westbrook

OT -
Mike Williams (Texas)
Leonard Davis (Texas)

DT -
Dan Wilkinson
Steve Emtman
Gerard Warren

DE -
Courtney Brown

LB -
Trev Alberts

CB -
Quentin Jammer (Texas)
Bryant Westbrook (Texas)

I'll admit, some of these players were busts because of injuries and/or drugs and might have otherwise been solid if not really good. Others may still be in the league and mediocre with breakout potential in the next few years, but by and large this group is enormously unimpressive considering the opportunity cost to the teams that drafted them.

Counting those that have alreadt be named, that's 23 players out of 75 considered. 1/3 of the top 5 picks in the past 15 years have been busts. We often rip the Lions, but look at what could have been different for the Cleveland Browns. There have been 8 drafts since they rejoined the league. If they would have taken the very next player chosen each year, this ios who they would have picked:
QB Donovan McNabb
LB LaVar Arrington
DE Justin Smith
CB Phillip Buchanon
QB Rex Grossman (not bad for a McNabb backup - if they skipped him because QB wasn't a need, the nexy player picked was Willis McGahee)
WR Roy Williams
RB Cedric Benson
DT Broderick Bunkley

That's an aweful lot of talent they missed out on. Most teams can play the what if game because of sleepers picked later, but I stuck to the very next player, which was almost always far better than who they grabbed. I'm sure the Browns would trade Frye and Braylon for McNabb and Roy. Cedric Benson part time was better than Droughns first string. Their defense would be pretty strong as well.

Why are the Lions looking at TJ Ducket? We already have Bell, KJ, and Clahoun. We aren't a power running team, what good is TJ going to be here? He should go to Pitt and team with parker.

? Maybe we're looking at trading Jones? I have no idea, really.

Goal line back/specialist.

Goal line back/specialist.

Jones powered over Ray Lewis, I'm sure he can handle that. if not, use your fullback (they will draft a new one because Corey won't be back).

Our fullback is Bryson now.

yeah, but they will draft a new one in day 2. Corey will retire (because Martz won't use him/want him back). You have to get another FB.

They already said that Bryson was their fullback for next year and they have Sean McHugh (I think that's his name) that's a hybrid FB/TE from Penn State and Will Matthews, that Texas Longhorns FB that went undrafted two years ago and spent the preseason with us and I think most of the regular season on our practice squad. I think if we wanted a fullback we'd use one of those two, but its more likely that we cut them both and use Bryson because Martz's offense doesn't use a big bulking fullback. Otherwise we'd be resigning Corey Sledgehammer. There's no way we can keep Tatum Bell, Kevin Jones, Brian Calhoun AND Bryson all as RB's. That's just too much roster space. Bryson becomes a hybid and we say goodbye to the big thumping fullback in Detroit.


Of course, that's only until Martz bolts.

You'd have to keep one of those (McHugh or Matthews) because you need them on special teams anyway. You don't go with just Bryson as the lone FB (even though I think he'll be used a lot in Martz offense). Bryson cannot block in short yardage (you'd have the 2nd FB with KJ behind him).

Anyway, it doesn't matter who is here, we will have a 2nd FB behind Bryson. My point was simply that with KJ, Bell, Bryson and Calhoun...there is no need to spend money on TJ. We'll never use him.

I would be curious what we could get for K. Jones. I like the guy and everything but he doesn't seem to be a very sturdy back and never plays the whole season. I wouldn't be opposed to moving him for a nice draft pick or two.

Not much right now I bet. When he comes back and plays you could get a lot more.