I made this chart (thanks to Hoopshype's salary page) to show each team's cap space and potential cap space this offseason. I will also compile a list of free agents beyond the player options listed below. The link below has a larger sized graphic of the same chart. The amounts are based off the current cap, which could go up of course.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/WTFchris/other/2007_FA_TeamCap_Sm.jpg

Click here for Full Size Graphic (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/WTFchris/other/2007_FA_TeamCap.jpg)

Here is the list of Free Agents (beyond the player options above):

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/WTFchris/2007_FA_List.jpg

Nice work, Chris.

I look forward to reading the info., hopefully we can have some good discussion on this stuff.

Maybe we'll even get a cameo from Pharaoh.

I think you need to look over your calculations.

Just at first glance, I have Chicago at like $47M not counting Sweetney's option and Washington would have $7.668M in possible cap space IF Jamison declined his option, it would never go up to $24M.

I think you need to look over your calculations.

Just at first glance, I have Chicago at like $47M not counting Sweetney's option and Washington would have $7.668M in possible cap space IF Jamison declined his option, it would never go up to $24M.
They forgot to add Jamison's salary into the 42 mil amount. I just did the math myself. That is a hoopshype error. All other cap amounts they included the player option salaries, but not the team/QO ones. You can see here they didn't add the 16 mil in. Their cap number is 16 mil off.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/washington.htm

Sweetney does have a QO, but that doesn't count towards the payroll on here. All QO's and Team Options are not counted against them because they can cut them if they want to. The purpose is to show each team's options. It's the same with Darko's 6.8 mil. Orlando has 14 mil in space, but not if they keep Darko.

Thanks for catching their error, I will update them.

Washington's cap number is fixed now. Let me know if they missed anything else.

Chris,

Although they are more "basic" in appearance than Hoopshype, I have found both Patricia Bender's site (http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/) and the Storytellers site (http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/06-07salaries.htm) to be more complete and accurate.

If you are going to put this much work into it, it might as well be accurate. You just can't count on the Hoopshype salary page. I speak as someone who has been burned before.

Chris,

Although they are more "basic" in appearance than Hoopshype, I have found both Patricia Bender's site (http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/ (http://www.eskimo.com/%7Epbender/)) and the Storytellers site (http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/06-07salaries.htm) to be more complete and accurate.

If you are going to put this much work into it, it might as well be accurate. You just can't count on the Hoopshype salary page. I speak as someone who has been burned before.

yeah, some of those are hard to get the numbers out of easy. Hoopshype is easy for finding the options with the colors. I will double check all the numbers against those tomorrow to make sure though. I thought we could use this time of year to iron out any errors in the data so that when the offseason rolls around I'll have the list %100 correct and ready to go.

In that whole list of free agents, who would possible end up in Detroit?

Webber - stays?
Amir - re-signed
Mcinnis - back-up PG
Atkins - back-up PG
Hart - back-up PG
House - back-up PG
M. Williams - too expensive
C. Bell - too expensive
Diener - restricted
J. Rose - homecoming?
Hill - doubtful
D. Mason - doubtful
Mo Pete - ?????
Corliss - Would we even want him?
Posey - VERY doubtful
Darko - yea, right
M. Moore - nope
J. Jones - hmmmm..


Anyone else you see as a possibility?

well, assuming we re-sign Billups, which is almost a certainty in my mind...we will only have the MLE. Even if we wanted Darko, he'd cost too much. We probably aren't going to use the full MLE unless Dyess is gone because we'd be in luxery tax area I am sure (we'll have to know the amount for this year to know for sure). So, we'll probably keep Amir, Billups, Dyess. Blaylock and any FA swingman or PG will depend on our draft I guess.

nice job, Chris.

Mo Peterson would be an EXCELLENT fit on the Pistons...

him & Dyess off the Bench is pretty lethal...plus Mo-Pete is a pretty solid defender too and he can light it up from the perim...

Not sure what he'd cost though...my guess is between 3-6 mil per

Although its not gonna happen...

I would love Gerald Wallace as a Piston as well

man would he be a nice, scrappy fit

Although its not gonna happen...

I would love Gerald Wallace as a Piston as well

man would he be a nice, scrappy fit

alot of people on this board seem to like Gerald in a Pistons uniform, but im not sure wouldnt. I'd love to take Gerald but he'd cost alot

MoPete might be available at the right money, Gerald won't.

Pick up MoPete with the MLE. Draft a PG and a C. Think hard about blowing this shit up(to rebuild or for a Kobe/KG/supastar).

nice chart. i am stealing it. if you have any issues, just let me know.

nice chart. i am stealing it. if you have any issues, just let me know.
Just make sure you give the man credit.

I like using part of the MLE on Mo Pete or Hill as a backup to Tay. We really need to focus on C/PG backups with our picks anyway.

I would love to see Grant Hill back in a Pistons uniform. He's a consumate team guy, he's a hard worker, he does all the little things, and he's a leader. He would be quickly accepted by the community and would easily be a fan favorite.

Per Storytellers' site, the #15 pick will have a salary of $1,308,000 for 2007-08 and the #27 pick will get $787,100.

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/07-08salaries.htm

Also, has anyone figured out why we gave Dale Davis ($4.5m) and Lindsey Hunter (to a lesser extent, $2.25m) so much goddamn money?

I know that a lot of people thought that Joe overpaid for DD so he would be a more valuable trade piece (expiring deal), but how did that work out?

We were over the cap regardless of DD's contract anyway. All it did was cost Davidson more money. I think he also overpaid to make sure Miami or another contender didn't get DD. He probably would have moved him too if Nazr didn't completely bomb here too.

I never understood why Hunter made so much. For a guy that barely plays during the regular season so we can keep him fresh, that's a big chunk of change.

Especially when they can pay him whatever they want to once he retires and joins the front office.

They could have signed him for the league minimum for two years and then made up the difference in his first front office contract.

lets assume Webber is gone, no trades happen and Billups is back for 13 mil...

Billups 13 mil
Sheed 12.5 mil
RIP 9.75 mil
Prince 8.7 mil
Dyess 6.4 mil
Nazr 5.6 mil
Hunter 2.25 mil
Murray 1.9 mil
Maxiell 1 mil
Dupree 0.8 mil

Total: 62 mil

The tax level will probably be about 70 mil, so Delfino's 2 mil opened up enough space to use the entire MLE rather than just a portion.

*Hunter may retire if we draft a first round PG.

lets assume Webber is gone, no trades happen and Billups is back for 13 mil...

Billups 13 mil
Sheed 12.5 mil
RIP 9.75 mil
Prince 8.7 mil
Dyess 6.4 mil
Nazr 5.6 mil
Hunter 2.25 mil
Murray 1.9 mil
Maxiell 1 mil
Dupree 0.8 mil

Total: 62 mil

The tax level will probably be about 70 mil, so Delfino's 2 mil opened up enough space to use the entire MLE rather than just a portion.

*Hunter may retire if we draft a first round PG.

http://www.speakingofsports.com/speakers/images/Corso.jpg
Not so fast my friend.

Amir? ($3m? $4m?)

Blalock? ($687K)

#15 ($1.31m)
#27 ($787K)

Nazr is killing that team salary.

Matbe the last few posts should move to the salary cap thread?

Not so fast my friend.

Amir? ($3m? $4m?)

Blalock? ($687K)

#15 ($1.31m)
#27 ($787K)
Well, of course they will have to pay those players as well. I see blaylock gone unless Hunter stays. If you add in another 5 mil for Amir and the picks you are looking at about 67 mil. I wish I had the exact tax level, but that is still the full MLE under it probably, or pretty close to it (to where Hunter/Dupree/Blaylock could get them under it).

My point is simply that I think Joe wants the option of offering the full MLE if there is a guy out there to use it on. Suppose a guy like Gerald Wallace doesn't get any big offers and is forced to take the MLE from some team. Well, you better damn well be able to offer it. I'm not saying there will be a guy like that out there, but it's best to have that option in case.

I doubt that Samb is ready to come over, but he has to be worked into the salary/draft plan sometime soon too.

The plan better be to get Nazr out of here. That's the plan. That 5 mil would go a long way.

And yes this should probably go to the cap thread.

I would probably trade Nazr for a case of beer and a bag of chips. If a second rounder could be added, that'd be great.

I would probably trade Nazr for a case of beer and a bag of chips. If a second rounder could be added, that'd be great.

In reality we'd probably have to include a 2nd rounder on our end to move him for a shorter contract. Or find a team deperate for a center (we'd have to wait until after the draft for sure).

I don't want any players back.

I don't want any players back.
Impossible unless you trade him to the Bucks, Bobcats or Magic. You have to take back at least 3/4 of his salary unless the team is far enough under the cap to take his 5 mil salary.

You might get a team like Houston willing to send you Bob Sura (expiring 3 mil salary) for him to back up Yao. They have a host of contracts coming up next year.

Heh heh. Do I need to post it in green?

apparently. I don't want anything back either, too bad we have to.

Nazr and the 27 to the Bucks for 56. It also kills their chances at Chauncey.

I wouldn't give them #27 to get rid of Nazr. No way. Despite him sucking, centers still have value in this league.

We'd better not be paying Amir 4-5 million. The guy has yet to prove a damn thing in this league. Do I think he has potential, hell yes! But until he proves it, he doesn't earn that big payday. Give him a million, maybe 2 million, but no more than that. If anything, throw incentives in there for him to reach to earn his money.

If Amir were a lottery pick, he wouldn't make that much less than 4-5 million, and we have much better scouting on what he is/isn't than we do for any of the college picks just because we've had him for awhile.

We'd better not be paying Amir 4-5 million. The guy has yet to prove a damn thing in this league. Do I think he has potential, hell yes! But until he proves it, he doesn't earn that big payday. Give him a million, maybe 2 million, but no more than that. If anything, throw incentives in there for him to reach to earn his money.


If 2 mil is as high as you think we should go, then say goodbye to Amir.

We'd better not be paying Amir 4-5 million. The guy has yet to prove a damn thing in this league. Do I think he has potential, hell yes! But until he proves it, he doesn't earn that big payday. Give him a million, maybe 2 million, but no more than that. If anything, throw incentives in there for him to reach to earn his money.


Sorry, its too late to introduce logical arguments in negotiating NBA contracts.

Unfortunately, it'll take at least 4 million to keep Amir. If the kid can keep improving, it'll be worth it. He could definitely be a sleeping JO-type PF, IMO. I know that comparison is thrown around a lot, but I really see it.

Sorry, its too late to introduce logical arguments in negotiating NBA contracts.
Sadly, so true. :emo kid:

4 mil is worth risking on Amir. Remember players like Juwan Howard got 15 mil plus a year (forgot what his huge contract was for). If he becomes a bust than you move him or someone else.

That Hunter contract this year is whats really killing us as much Flip Murray's ridiculous contract.

4.1 mill of completely wasted cap space.

And yes this should probably go to the cap thread.

FYI- I moved about 12-15 posts from the Delfino thread over here to the cap thread.

Hunter is making 4.1 million?!?! That's ridiculous.

^^Yeah... Ouch.

Hunter is making 4.1 million?!?! That's ridiculous.

$2.25m, but that is bad enough.

Where did you see $4.1m?

That Hunter contract this year is whats really killing us as much Flip Murray's ridiculous contract.

4.1 mill of completely wasted cap space.
That's where. Unless I read it wrong and that was the two of them combined.

^Yeah. hunter makes 2.25 mil and Flip makes like 1.9 mil this year. That is a combined number.

Salary cap for 2007-08 season set at $55,630,000

By Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com

Updated: July 11, 2007, 2:40 AM ET

The salary cap for the 2007-08 NBA season will be set at $55,630,000, ESPN.com has learned.

The number was reached after an audit of league finances and was set late Tuesday night by the players association and the league office. It will be the number teams use beginning Wednesday when a 10-day moratorium on free agent signing ends.

The mid-level exception for over-the-cap teams is $5,356,000, and the luxury tax threshold will be $67,865,000.


Interesting.

The BRI must have come in lower than expected, a most analysts were predicting that the MLE would shake out closer to $6m.

I haven't done the math yet, but with the tax level at $67.8m, I'm guessing that means Joe will be told to not use the MLE this year.
*grumble*

Once we get confirmation of Chauncey's year 1 salary figure, we'll get a better idea of how much room Joe has to offer Amir a deal that does not exceed the tax.

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/1808/pistons200708salariesfj7.jpg

I'm betting Hunter or Flip will not be on there soon, possibly both.

Billups and Amir would probably add about 13 mil to the total this year, so we're looking at about 65 mil there. We're only going to have about 3 mil of the MLE to use if Joe is not allowed to exceed the tax level. moving Flip or losing Hunter to retirement would probably allow him to use the full MLE (if he wanted to).

I'm under the impression that Hunter retiring wouldn't have any effect on the books, is that wrong?

53. How do retired players count against the cap?

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired. For example, James Worthy retired in 1994, two years before his contract ended. He continued to receive his salary for the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, so his salary was included in the Lakers' team salary in those seasons. It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.
If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player


I guess we'd have to arrange a buyout for it not to count.

It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

This part makes it sound like Hunter could retire and forefeit his salary, perhaps to take his new salary for the front office job? If true, that give Joe more wiggle room under the tax.

Still would affect lux. tax/cap I believe.

It's weird to think about Stuckey making 1/3 more $ than Maxiell does.

Still would affect lux. tax/cap I believe.

Right. He could foreit the money but it would still be on our cap (if he retired and didn't want the money). The question is if Davidson would use the money (not cap space) Hunter saved him to go over the tax level by that amount. Hunter could basically allow Davidson to re-asign the actual money to another use even though the cap wouldn't change.

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired.

So this statement is true, but the inverse is not? This seems to imply that if a player doesn't get paid, it doesn't count against the team's salary.

Especially when followed by:

It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

Thanks for setting me straight on this guys, the wording of this shit leaves a lot open to interpretation, which usually leads to me interpreting it incorrectly.

The first statement should be "owed" and not "paid"

It doesn't make sense the way they have it worded.

Anybody want to research and write an article about which teams still have MLEs at their disposal and how usage of that relates to their tax situation?

Maybe such an article already exists, I dunno.

Looks like $10m is the number that most think Billups 2007/08 salary will be.

So making that assumption...

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6126/pistons200708salariesxv2.jpg

That leaves us $5.865m under the tax threshold BEFORE re-signing Amir.

tack on $3 million for Amir, ballpark.

We can use roughly half the MLE without hitting the LT.

Or without dumping Flip and|or Dupree.

That list sounds good to me. I think we'll move Flip and Dup together if we can for a SF, and if not, just buy out Flip and have 3 prospects in FW. Samb may actually have a chance of making this roster.

I don't know if this is official or not, but here is what Hoopshype has for Chauncey's new deal.



2007/08 10,000,000
2008/09 11,050,000
2009/2010 12,100,000
2010/2011 13,150,000
2011/2012 14,200,000 (Team Option)

So if Amir's deal is 3 years 12 mil...

This might be the numbers:

3.3 mil
3.96 mil
4.75 mil

Looks like we're about $2.5 mil under the tax threshold.

A player or two at the vets minimum and we might have some spare change to fill a need during the season.

Knicks top list of teams to pay luxury tax
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Updated: July 13, 2007, 6:21 PM ET


The New York Knicks can't be feeling very lucky on this Friday The Thirteenth.

By the end of this business day, you see, each of the NBA's five luxury-tax-paying teams from last season will have received an official invoice from the league stating the "net" amount they must remit.

In the Knicks' case?

The payment due by July 25, according to a league memo distributed this week to all 30 teams: $45 million and change.

That's $45-plus million for a team that went 33-49 and missed the playoffs for a third successive season. It was team president Isiah Thomas' first season as Knicks coach, following a 23-59 nightmare under Larry Brown, with New York going 4-14 to slip out of playoff contention after Thomas received a contract extension on March 12.

The next closest tax bill is the Dallas Mavericks' $7.2 million.

Teams that carried a payroll higher than $65.42 million for the 2006-07 season are required to pay a dollar-for-dollar tax on every dollar over that threshold. The following five teams are required to pay as follows:


Show Me The Money
Big spending doesn't always pay off. Just ask the New York Knicks. The Knicks, who missed the playoffs last season with a 33-49 mark, were strapped with a $45 million luxury-tax bill Friday. That means New York owes almost $40 million more than the second-highest paying team in the Mavs, who finished with the league's best record.

Team Money Owed
1. Knicks $45,142,002
2. Mavs $7,204,968
3. Nuggets $2,022,418
4. T-Wolves $998,536
5. Spurs $196,082

The 25 non-tax-paying teams, meanwhile, will each receive 1/30 of the cumulative tax amount, which computes to nearly $1.9 million per team.

So Davidson is getting a nice check for $1.9 million in the mail courtesy of his old friend Isiah.

Re-invest it in the team, old man. This group has a run or two left in them. Save $ after they're done.

if you wonderd why Lindsey got so much cash last year for his final 2 years playing some ball, this guy might be the reason

Bartelstein, Mark

http://www.hoopshype.com/agents/mark_bartelstein.htm

seriously there is not one guy on this list who isn't overpayed, at least a bit ( not counting rookies)

^So is he Brad Miller's twin or something:

http://www.hoopshype.com/players/brad_miller.jpg

This is his real picture:

http://www.basketball-agents.com/images/mark_bartelstein.jpg

a database of agents- players.... all i can say is thank you. i should easily beable to get through monday and part of tuesday just playing around with this.

the pic is of the agent's top client.

Arn Tellem is a beast.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5372/pistonssalaries0708je5.jpg

I used the contract figures from Storytellers when available (Hoopshype has been wrong too many times.)

For the record, Hoopshype has both Sheed & Rip making $250K less each than I have here, so depending on which site is correct, there could be as much as $500K additional in wiggle room.

Consider this a conservative estimate.

Bill McCandless (an agent from the list), I wonder if he used to be married to this chick.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/Carrie_McCandless.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4873/pistonssalaries0708revipt4.jpg

In case anyone was wondering about next year...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/GlennDanzig/Pistonssalaries08_09.jpg

This assumes Hunter, Dupree, Murray and Mejia all are not re-signed.

With only 11 players we're nearing the current tax level, it typically does go up a bit, but how much remains to be seen.

good work Glenn!


i like this one too

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pnOXx3yNaMu5xZYo9Ha50YQ

its from Jimmy@worldcrossing, Detroit Pistons Forum


so if the roster stays the same and the tax stays about the same, we could only add 1,2 minimum guys, no MLE again, no rookies without going over the tax next year?

The 4 guys that are leaving are 4 end of the bench guys, so we'd only be adding end of the bench guys. A rookie or two (small contracts) and another guy like Dupree and we'll be set.

Okay, this is preliminary.

If someone wants to help fill in the gaps of my CBA knowledge by telling me how the salaries of Dupree and Mejia will be reflected in the year-end figures (which the luxury taxes are based off of) then I'll update this again.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/1581/pistons200708salariesreqc0.jpg

Does Dupree get his full salary when he clears waivers? (I assume so)

How much, if anything, does Mejia count against us? I seem to recall that he had a partial guarantee.

His contract was only guaranteed to a certain point, so if we waved him before that point it didn't count against us. I'm assuming that since we waived him before the season he won't count against us at all, but I'm not by any means an expert on this stuff so don't take my word for it.

Meija had half a season, Dupe was a full 2 year deal. If there were special provisions beyond those, they wern't printed.

If someone claims Dupree, they have to assume his salary, right?

He may have already cleared waivers, not sure.

So we're responsible for a prorated amount (50%) of Mejia's deal, then?

We've got one more year of Maxiell on the cheap (less than $2m) but is there any doubt that we'll have to match at least a full MLE offer on him in the summer of '09?

Just another reason why moving Nazr's salary is huge.

The lux tax next year will be determined by the BRI... this is going to be very dificult to project... so far attendence is down for the first time in years... we won't know what merchandise sales and other income are until July... then there's a new lucrative TV contract kicking in next year.