This is one of my favorite weeks of the year, the trade deadline is this Thursday.

Between today and Thursday, the rumors should really start heating up.

So do you think Joe D will stand pat, or will he swing a deal?

Is Mike James a minor deal?

I removed the major/minor deal choices and just made it a yes or no poll.

Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways, MM.

I think that a minor deal will be done..........even if it's just moving Flip Murray.

I think its a major possibilty you see Juan Dixon in a Pistons uniform.

I think it's a major possibility of a minor deal

I took Thursday off of work so that I can sufficiently celebrate the cementing of our 4th championship.

He'll be trying to make a deal. I think other GMs know that trading with us could put us over the top which might make it tougher.

At the very minimum, I expect Dumars will trade Flip Murray, even if it's for a 2010 2nd round draft pick. At this point, I don't expect Murray to opt out next year, and the Pistons don't need his contract on the books in an attempt to re-sign Billups.

i suspect the heat, bulls, maybe cavs, and pistons make upgrades at the break. gasol to the bulls, artest to the heat, james to the pistons, and maybe bibby to the cavs. if i get all 4 right i think i deserve 1000 alpacas.

i suspect the heat, bulls, maybe cavs, and pistons make upgrades at the break. gasol to the bulls, artest to the heat, james to the pistons, and maybe bibby to the cavs. if i get all 4 right i think i deserve 1000 alpacas.

Artest to the Heat? That's a new one. I have heard Maggette but no Artest.

If any of those happen, they are a significent upgrade compared to our minor.

There is no way we make a big enough move to call it major.

The move I'm most worried about is the Bibby to the Cavs. If Gasol goes to the Bulls, they lose a starter in Gordon, hinrich, or deng and mabe nocioni for gasol.

The Heat will suck with or without artest.

Bibby to the Cavs will mean Snow/Damon jones is out and that alone is pretty big. Ferry won't give up anyone outside their starting 5 except maybe gooden, who was rumored to be out anyways. The cavs haven't had a decent enough point to do anything outside LeBron. This will give Lebron a 2nd option instead of passing it to big Z who hasn't done shit this year. Hughes could be a good 3rd option dropping 12-15 a game and getting a quiet 3 steals a game. If you look at it like this.

Bibby
a filler? idk kenny thomas?
for
Snowor jones
goodden
picks
sasha or something.

the cavs dont give up shit.

goood thing Biibby and Z haven;t been clicking so far


Also, Taeho made a good point. Outside ofthe Knicks, which team would make a trade with us and basically win us the chip?

Kenny Thomas shouldn't be considered "filler" by any means.

He basically makes one level below superstar money ($7m-$8m/yr for the next 3 years).

Not a single person here thinks Joe is going to stand pat, so if that happens, expect blood in the streets.

FWIW, Joe stood pat last year at the deadline (the Darko trade was on 2/15/06).

We had an insanely good record and the team looked invincible. This year there are 2 players who would be in the rotation of most teams that are just sitting on a bench. I think a deal will happen.

:mccosky:


Let's see, Flip Murray went to Philadelphia for the break, Carlos Delfino went to Argentina. Delfino, though an hour or so late, made to Milwaukee in time to at least get up a few shots at the end of practice Monday. Murray, however, didn't make it at all. He apparently got stuck in Cincinnati, though why he was taking a connecter from Philly to Milwaukee is beyond me. Amir Johnson was late, too. He went to Vegas, made it back on the team flight Monday morning, but overslept and missed the team flight to Milwaukee. He showed up at the same time as Delfino. All three players will be fined.

You have to wonder if that won't be the last straw for Murray. He's long been out of the rotation and Joe Dumars has been trying to trade him. So far he hasn't gotten any takers. It's probable that they will keep Murray around until the Feb. 22 trade deadline, but after that, if he's not traded he will probably be waived.

Rip Hamilton, as you probably saw, jammed the ring finger on his right (shooting) hand during the All-Star game. He sat out practice Monday night, taking electronic stimulation on the finger. He will test it Tuesday during shoot-around, though physical therapist Arnie Kander seemed almost certain Hamilton would be able to play against the Bucks.

There is still nothing imminent on the trade front for the Pistons. I am starting to think that, other than waiving Murray, the Pistons are going to ride it out with what they have. And that's OK. Another perimeter player -- preferably a point guard -- would have been nice, but they have enough talent and depth to win the East and get back to the Finals.

Blakely


Trade winds strong this week!
Milwaukee - After weeks of occasional wink-winks here and there, along with a few 'I got you!' nods, it's time for NBA GMs to show and prove themselves this week.

The trading deadline is Thursday afternoon, and you can bet the Pistons will be like every other team, working the phones to see if they can make a deal.

Joe Dumars has said he wants another perimeter-oriented player, and is willing to give up one of his big guys to make it happen. He's never said who the big guys on the trading block are, but it's clear that it's Nazr Mohammed and Dale Davis. And if he can throw Flip Murray into the deal, that'll be even better.

I wrote about a month ago that I felt Detroit should hold on to Nazr, and I'm sticking to that until I see a reason to change course. I have this feeling that Nazr will help this team win at least one playoff game, if they keep him around. From what I'm hearing, the Pistons are more inclined to do so now than they were earlier, in part because Mohammed seems willing to accept a diminished role now, and the fact that he might be Detroit's starting center next season if C-Webb doesn't re-sign with the team.

There have been several deals talked about in recent months involving the Pistons, but there's only one that seems to make the most sense for both Detroit, and the trading partner.

Now before you get too excited, let me make this as clear as possible. This deal is not immiment. In fact, from what I understand, there's nothing going on with the Pistons or the players I'm about to mention, or any of the popular names associated with them (Mo Peterson, Juan Dixon, Marco Jaric, just to name a few).

Does that mean they'll stand pat with their current roster, and that there's no chance of landing any of the aforementioned players?

Of course not.

It doesn't take long to get a deal done these days in the NBA. The Rip Hamilton-for-Jerry Stackhouse trade a few years back came together in less than 48 hours after talks began. The trade for Rasheed Wallace came together pretty quick as well, which is not the norm when you're talking three or more teams.

Even with no deal expected soon, the one that makes the most sense for all involved would be Detroit sending Dale Davis and Flip Murray to Houston, for Bonzi Wells and Bobby Sura.

For Houston, the deal makes sense because you would be adding a veteran big man in Davis who can rebound and defend the post. Dikembe Mutombo did a really good job of filling while Yao Ming was hurt, but the Rockets could still benefit from having another player along those lines who has experience in big, playoff games. Houston would also be getting rid of a player (Wells) that clearly is not on the same page as JVG, and by all indications, won't be anytime soon.

By picking up Flip Murray, the Rockets would be taking a gamble similar to the one they took with Wells. However, when you consider he would be taking a roster spot vacated by a guy who hasn't played since the 2005 season (Sura) due to back and knee injuries, the worst that can happen is Murray will give you exactly what the guy he replaced, gave you -- nothing. The potential upside, however, is huge. When Murray's on top of his game - which hasn't happened too much in Detroit - he can be unstoppable. If he puts together a stretch like that in the playoffs, and Yao and T-Mac are healthy, the Rockets could be an emerging sleeper out West.

As for Detroit, Wells would give them a proven perimeter scorer off the bench who would create another mismatch for opponents to worry about. I sometimes struggle with the idea that Wells is in fact a guard, because he rebounds the ball so well.

Sura, an ex-Piston, would probably be put on the inactive roster or waived.

Even if Detroit decided the eat the rest of Sura's contract, it would be worth it to pick up Wells. Such a move would position the Pistons for a similar run they had three years ago after they picked up Rasheed Wallace. And by adding Wells and Webber within weeks of one another, that would go down as yet another couple of nice trading deadline deals by Joe D.

The Rockets already have a Flip Murray, only they call him Rafer Alston. He's pretty much exactly what Dumars hoped Murray would be. So that stuff about "upside" with Murray is bunk.

Exactly. If Joe gets the Rockets to take Murray, it will either be

A) to offset the larger expiring deal they'd be getting with DD (to help even the trade out)

or

B) because Joe throws in a pick with DD & Flip, most likely a 2nd rd.

"Murray, the contract" would be traded not "Murray, the player".

But trading Murray the contract is pointless in senario B. Murray can simply opt out next year (which he will do because he has no future here), so there is no reason for Joe to include a pick to move him. He can simply cut him if he wants and keep the pick.

I've read a few things that suggest that Murray will not be opting out, but you're probably right.

Here's a question, if you waive a player that has a player option for next year, do you owe him that money?

There is an interesting twist regarding player options. What happens if the team waives the player before he invokes his player option? Can the player invoke the option after he is waived, thus guaranteeing his salary for the option year? To head off this situation, all contracts with player options must indicate whether the player receives his salary for the option year in the event the contract is terminated.

I'm not sure which one Flip's is.

I want Joe to make a deal involving Nazr/Flip, but I have a feeling we're going to stand pat.

I'd actually prefer a DD and FLip deal. I think we could get more with expirings than Nazr's contract would bring. Plus Nazr is a decent center in case Webber bolts. DD can't start if Webber bolts. DD and Flip could net us a solid SF or PG while Nazr might net us a bad contract SF/PG that isn't as good a player.

The only worry is future luxery tax, but Dyess isn't here that much longer anyway, and I think Max will be as good as him in another year or so anyway. We can cut salary there if needed.

DD can't start if Webber bolts.
I beg to differ, we looked better with him as a starter than Nazr. And If we hadn't signed Webber, I really do think Davis would have continued starting the rest of the year.

He's talking about next year, when Davis can't start because he's getting the hell out of here one way or another.

I beg to differ, we looked better with him as a starter than Nazr. And If we hadn't signed Webber, I really do think Davis would have continued starting the rest of the year.
So you want to roll with DD and who as our centers next year if Webber is gone and Nazr is gone?

Sheed, Max and Dyess are all PF's, even though Sheed can guard centers at times too.

The problem is that you have NO post players (unless you include Sheed who only posts up when he's T'd up).

And Glenn is right. DD might not be back either. He's probably sick of Flip's rotations too.

We could end up with no true center on the roster if we move Nazr.

So you want to roll with DD and who as our centers next year if Webber is gone and Nazr is gone?
Whoever becomes available. You're under the impression that we can't get another center via 1st round draft pick and/or FA/Trade? My point is that DD was better at Center for us than Nazr. You made a case that he can't start at center, i dispute that heavily. Otherwise Its up to Joe to figure out who to keep or dump in the offseason.

Whoever becomes available. You're under the impression that we can't get another center via 1st round draft pick and/or FA/Trade? My point is that DD was better at Center for us than Nazr. You made a case that he can't start at center, i dispute that heavily. Otherwise Its up to Joe to figure out who to keep or dump in the offseason.
when has their ever been a decent FA center on the market? And when has anyone ever traded a middle round pick for a decent center either? You are either going to get a center past his prime (DD, Mutumbo, Zo, etc) or a retread (Rasho type center) that isn't any better than Nazr and would simply have another year longer on his contract (if we used the MLE on another one). Plus, we'd have the contract that Nazr was traded for too, which might handcuff Joe from even getting another center because Bill might not pay the tax.

Not to mention you might trade a first rounder in a deep draft. I'd rather have Nazr, draft a center and hope he pans out. If not you still have a decent center in Nazr. If there is a center on the market, teams like Chicago or NY will simply trade better stuff than we have for them.

If there's a center on the market in the offseason that wants to play for the Pistons, we can just trade Nazr then. Its not like we're forbidden to trade him in the offseason if we don't deal him by the deadline.

Nazr hasn't played well regardless. I say that we get rid of him and take our chances. I'm sure that we will be able to pick up a center who can play equally as bad in the offseason if we need to. I am looking to win while we still for sure have Chauncey and C. Webb. I'm hoping that Samb might be good enough to be an option. If not we can always draft a C or trade one of our coveted youngsters Max, Amir, Delfino, guys taken in the draft for a center. There's a fair chance that C. Webb would re-sign, especially if we win teh East and possibly a championship!!!!

Okay, we're less than 50 hours from the deadline and the rumors are just not flying like they usually do.

I'm annoyed.

Here is the list for all to debate:

2007 UFA Centers:
Stanislav Medvedenko
Michael Olowokandi
Primoz Brezec (PO)
Jake Voskuhl (PO)
Scot Pollard
Dikembe Mutombo
Jake Tsakalidis
Chris Mihm
Michael Doleac
Mikki Moore
Marc Jackson
Kelvin Cato
Bo Outlaw
Kurt Thomas (PO)
Jamaal Magloire
Danny Fortson

There are a few players that wouldn't be bad here if Nazr were traded and Webber walked. Magloire would be ok, Brezec if he opted out...but otherwise there aren't any upgrades IMO.

The problem is that if you move Nazr and sign a new center, you can't sign Mo Pete or another bench player to add to the mix. You really just replace Nazr, Flip and Webber with another ok center. That doesn't make us any better, unless the player you get for Nazr is really good (doubt it since they are taking on a bad contract).

What a bunch of garbage on that list.

Although, some believe that Mikki is going to be able to score an MLE deal this summer thanks to his solid play with the Nets this year.

The Jazz fucked up trading him away for a 2nd round pick, it would seem.

What a bunch of garbage on that list.


I know, it's retread city. basically any journeyman center you can think of that hasn't retired yet.

I know that the list is crappy but if we can get something of value to help us win this year, we need to do it. Nazr has been mediocre at best and I'm sure we can get another mediocre player to play C. At this point i'd be happier playing Sheed at C and Max or Dice at PF then having Nazr at C. Even with Nazr at C he can only play limited minutes due to his consant foul trouble.

I know that the list is crappy but if we can get something of value to help us win this year, we need to do it. Nazr has been mediocre at best and I'm sure we can get another mediocre player to play C. At this point i'd be happier playing Sheed at C and Max or Dice at PF then having Nazr at C. Even with Nazr at C he can only play limited minutes due to his consant foul trouble.

but the question is whether Nazr or DD will get us a better player in return. I think DD will. Teams will unload a guy with 1-2 years left on his contract because they want the expiring deal. Or swap positions (ie mo pete) for a pick because they don't add any salary. Teams won't want Nazr for 4 more years unless they can get rid of their own bad contract (ie Jaric). And bad contract = player underperforming. I'd rather get a performer for DD and worry about Nazr later if we have to.

I'm willing to unload either. It all depends on what we get and what their contract is like. If it's for a player signed long term (i.e. Mike James) then I want to move Nazr. I have faith that Joe will do whatever is the best for the team.

I highly HIGHLY highly doubt Samb will be ready next year. He needs at least another year or two overseas before he's fully ready to come play in the NBA. He's still relatively new to basketball.

Here is the list for all to debate:

2007 UFA Centers:
Stanislav Medvedenko
Michael Olowokandi
Primoz Brezec (PO)
Jake Voskuhl (PO)
Scot Pollard
Dikembe Mutombo
Jake Tsakalidis
Chris Mihm
Michael Doleac
Mikki Moore
Marc Jackson
Kelvin Cato
Bo Outlaw
Kurt Thomas (PO)
Jamaal Magloire
Danny Fortson

all i see on that list are all stars, lottery picks, and dpoys. im excited as fuck!!

i'd drop nazr if i could. i dont think he adds much. probably more trouble than he's worth.

theres a few guys on that list i wouldnt mind. we might beable to sneak by the year without a center.

we could also just draft a stiff like aaran gray and be done with it.

I think it's a major possibility of a minor deal

i agree. except i think there's only a 20% chance of that.

there is a 100% of the pistons either making a deal or not

i will be pissed if we do nothing...at least move Dale, there should be a guard available for Dale damnit

if we add salary, joe's stupid. chauncy deserves to be the highest paid pg in the L, and he probably will be. we've blead alot of talent the last few years, but losing him, especially to pick a medium upgrade, would be catastrophic. i'd much rather stand pat than pick up any salary for next year.

Well I do think Nazr was showcased tonight against Milwaukee, getting some minutes earlier in the game than his usual garbage time when the game is basically over with.

The Rockets may stand pat.

:mccosky:


Q. So, what percentage would you put on the Pistons making a deal vs. not making a deal?

A. I would say it's 35-65. Three weeks ago, I would have said there was a better than 80 percent chance Mohammed and Flip Murray would be gone. Now, I think it's more likely no deals will be made. But, as we all have seen, these things can change in an instant.

ASB is on the radio and he says that Mike James isn't likely to come to Detroit and that MJ doesn't want to play in Detroit because he won't get big minutes.

FYI the Bulls forum at RealGM is buzzing because Sheriden said on ESPNews he's been hearing rumors about a Sweetney for Bonzi deal in the works. According to another report from ESPNNews, apparently the Bulls flat out offered Sweetney for Bonzi and Houston's mulling it over. I hope it's BS.

The Bulls possible trades worry me. Right now we are better, but I feel they have better defense and better coaching. All it would take is one good low post scorer in a good deal to make them be able to take us out.

I dont see the Pistons doing anything. Seriously, what do we need? Multitalented depth on the frontline? Check. Best backcourt in the game, + defense and depth? Check. Swingmen who can do it all? Check. Can we trade for a coach?

I'm thinking that we might do addition by subtraction. In other words, lose Flip and Nazr.

I dont see the Pistons doing anything. Seriously, what do we need? Multitalented depth on the frontline? Check. Best backcourt in the game, + defense and depth? Check. Swingmen who can do it all? Check. Can we trade for a coach?
The big concern seems to be a scorer off the bench or a backup PG. I think Hunter will do fine for us backing up the point, but it would be nice to see Billups get some more rest without overworking Hunter. That's where I think Blalock should be getting some time. We can fight through a few mistakes he's going to make, and it could help us down the road to get him some more experience. The scorer off the bench isn't something we have in waiting. Our backup 2-3 is Delfino and he's shown to be more of a hustle/defense guy this season. It would be nice to get one, but I'm not sure who we could get.

I think it wouldn't be as much of a problem if Flip just mixed bench and starters. Keep two or three starters on the floor when we bring in a big man and Hunter or Delfino from the bench, then we have a nice mix of starters and bench guys that can work together. We'll always have one of Sheed, Rip, Billups out there that can score for us. At the very least we'll have Webber out there passing to slashing Tayshaun and Delfino. Our coach just has no idea what he's doing with rotations

Houston needs a big. Detroit could use scoring off the bench. Nazr 4 Bonzi.

Would Joe really trade with the Bulls?

I say no.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-070221smith,1,5121211.column?coll=cs-home-headlines


They could get the Pistons' Nazr Mohammed.

The Bulls reportedly were close to a deal for Mohammed this week before talks broke off.

FYI the Bulls forum at RealGM is buzzing because Sheriden said on ESPNews he's been hearing rumors about a Sweetney for Bonzi deal in the works. According to another report from ESPNNews, apparently the Bulls flat out offered Sweetney for Bonzi and Houston's mulling it over. I hope it's BS.

The Bulls possible trades worry me. Right now we are better, but I feel they have better defense and better coaching. All it would take is one good low post scorer in a good deal to make them be able to take us out.


If the price tag for bonzi is so ridiculously low I don't see why the pistons can't jump into the mix. He'd be PERFECT for this team with his inside/outside game and above average rebounding skills (not to mention he always lights it up at the palace).

When Tayshaun went down briefly last night did anyone else realize just how weak we are at the backup 3 position? As much as I like Delfino's hustle he's really a 2 and is not and never will be a guy you can count on for points.

And I agree that the bulls scare me a bit. I don't think they'll pull the plug on a gasol deal but I do think they'll make a few deals that will make them better. Getting Bonzi Wells would make that team much better since they really don't have a guy that can defend the 2. (gordon is pipsqueak and hinrich plays out of position, he's really a point but they make him defend and sometimes play the 2)

And who, exactly, were we going to get from the Bulls for Nazr?

And who, exactly, were we going to get from the Bulls for Nazr?

I don't understand that either. They won't trade Nocionni or Duhon, and they don't have any other smalls worth trading for off the bench. Plus, IF they somehow get KG or Gasol, they are going to be giving up 1-2 good smalls anyway.

And who, exactly, were we going to get from the Bulls for Nazr?

PJ Brown's expiring contract

If Joe doesn't make a deal and we don't end up in the finals because of "depth" related issues his job should be in question. The Pistons have picks, small deals and Bigs so there is no room for excuses on Joe's part as to why a deal couldn't be made. And if this has to do with penny pinching because of Chauncey's pending FA, I will scream.

If Joe doesn't make a deal and we don't end up in the finals because of "depth" related issues his job should be in question. The Pistons have picks, small deals and Bigs so there is no room for excuses on Joe's part as to why a deal couldn't be made. And if this has to do with penny pinching because of Chauncey's pending FA, I will scream.

Same story as last year IMO.

I was outraged when he didn't bolster the bench last year at the deadline, especially since he didn't get a rotation player for Darko/Arroyo.

It didn't matter that their record was so gaudy, everyone could see the depth problem and it went unresolved.

Starting to feel that way all over again.

The problem is that his penny pinching may not be his choice. Obviously Darko, White and Cleaves were bad choices on his part though.

i'm sorry but its not nearly as bad as last year to me. Also last year we didn't play defense as consistently as we have this year and our half court sets involved too much early shot clock first open shot shooting.

This year we're more patient and more consistent (though not better than we were with Ben). Webber has been rock solid for us also.

i think we are one player away and still too beatable for my taste, but last year we were 2-3 players away with Flip baffled in how to use this team and how to use Ben Wallace.

Do we get to the finals? hard to say still. but i actually feel i can believe in this team, something i didnt feel before the Webber effect.

The situation is not as bad, I agree but I don't feel like a big enough effort is being made. Joe needs to gamble. It's not like trading Nazr, DD or Flip hurts the chemistry or rotation, they are luxaries. If Joe believes in Delfino, JMax and Amir and Dice said he loves the team what is the harm in making a move to bolster the team now. Screw next year we have picks, and at least 7-8 key players back with Chauncey and C-Webb being FA's, both are guys like Dice who seem to love this team and will stay if they are wanted. Even if we had to use the MLE on C-Webb nothing is that bad if Nazr or DD are moved and we are down one or both of them.

God I wish this quote came from a respected Journalist. Best Quote about the GM's I have seen.



SportsNation Chad Ford: (12:41 PM ET ) Tell that to GM Otis Smith who has been saying for days that the team is doing nothing and that he "likes" his team. What are the Magic paying him to do? The team he likes isn't very good right now ... they need wing scoring desperately and they have an asset in Grant Hill's expiring contract that could land them a really talented player. It amazes me how much a few GMs in the league get paid to do nothing. You've got to be proactive and I don't think the Magic have been.

30 minutes to go

This is lame.

the deadline is just as exciting as the allstar weekend

Blakely


Trade talk
I just spoke with Joe a few minutes ago, and he said "nothing at all" is happening with Detroit making a possible trade by the 3 p.m. deadline. Of course, anything can happen but considering the deadline is about 30 minutes away, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that the Pistons aren't doing any deals before the deadline.

It's 3 pm, so I closed the poll and posted a new one: http://www.wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8611