Amaechi becomes first NBA player to come out

http://adsatt.espn.go.com/ad/sponsors/ESPN_In_House_Marketing/Jan_2007/espn-146x46-0055.jpg (http://log.go.com/log?srvc=sz&guid=84243BA7-2FAA-43BB-BFDA-79DF0171319E&drop=0&addata=1332:63:271709:63&a=1&goto=https://www.providiancard.com/bap/envwa/jumpApp.jsp?offer_id=esp02&banner_id=espngeneric01022007bncf1b146x0462500)
ESPN.com



John Amaechi, who played at Penn State and for five seasons in the NBA, will announce he is gay in an upcoming book.http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2007/0207/nba_maninmiddle_195.jpg
The cover for "Man in the Middle," John Amaechi's upcoming book.




The book, published by ESPN Books (owned by the Walt Disney Company, parent company of ESPN), is entitled "Man in the Middle." It is due to be released later this month.


Amaechi, born in Massachusetts but raised in England, would be the first NBA player to come out publicly. Few other men's professional major sport athletes have announced they are gay. Among them are football player Esera Tuaolo, baseball player Billy Bean and former WTFDetroit great Uncle Cliffy.


Amaechi, a 6-10 center, played for Cleveland, Orlando and Utah during five NBA seasons. He averaged 6.2 points and 2.6 rebounds before retiring from the league in 2003.



Big deal. Obviously he's hurting for $$$ and decided to cash in on the talk show circuit a la Canseco



And truthfully, when I read that last name. I instantly thought of:


Don Ameche, dead actor
Alan Ameche, ex-Colt great



Not THIS dude...er, I mean, chick.

This isn't even news. Everyone knew it when he stated he likes to drink "six cups of tea" before every game, as stated in the Pistons/Magic series a couple years ago.

If that's true, that's a great pull Motown. Why would you ever remember that?

I really do not care if this guy is gay, not one bit, but what would you guys say if RIP decided to come out of the closet? Would it bother you then?

the title of the book is gayer than him.

I really do not care if this guy is gay, not one bit, but what would you guys say if RIP decided to come out of the closet? Would it bother you then?

If it lowered his FG% I would. If it lowered his PF numbers I'd ask him to start hitting on Rasheed.

As a fan I could care less. If I was a player I might be uncomfortable in the locker room though.

I knew he was gay for a while now. For some reason I think that came out or was assumed long ago.[smilie=hoops.gif]

Also if Rip was gay, when he had a good game I would consistently refer to him as having been "flammin'" during that game. For example, "Did you see the game last night? Man, Rip was flammin'!"

"If you look at our league, minorities aren’t very well represented," noted Briton John Amaechi, of Utah Jazz, who received threats after espousing supposedly-non-traditional values on his personal website. "There’s hardly any Hispanic players, no Asian-Americans, so that there’s no openly gay players is no real surprise.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:Ne_eqtsBRyMJ:www.scotsman.com/%3Fid%3D907912002%26rware%3DJAUXLPEDNAJW%26CQ_CUR_ DOCUMENT%3D1+john+amaechi+gay&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

from 8/19/2002

Big deal. Obviously he's hurting for $$$ and decided to cash in on the talk show circuit a la Canseco



And truthfully, when I read that last name. I instantly thought of:


Don Ameche, dead actor
Alan Ameche, ex-Colt great



Not THIS dude...er, I mean, chick.
I thought this was going to be a thread about Alan Ameche.....

If that's true, that's a great pull Motown. Why would you ever remember that?

I just remember making jokes about it back then, I'm not sure why... but the punchline was John Amaechi. I also think it was in an "ESPN the Mag" once, about weird traditions. My memory is weird as hell sometimes.

I don't see why it would ever be of any interest to me whatsoever what somebody else's sexual orientation was unless they were hitting on me or I was hitting on them. And then I only care a very little bit.

I love the "Oh yeah, now I remember!" talking about a guy no one ever heard of as if you knew about him. What a bunch of fucking bullshit.
As for him being gay, anyone who gives a shit is just downright ignorant. What the HELL does that matter?
The "locker room" stuff is bullshit. You can;t tell me that the guys who are REALLY in the locker rooms would care less (Unless they spent alot of time on a message board), and don't know that the sports leagues have had plenty of gays since day one.
Come on, dudes, it's like, 2007. Get over your homophobia. They're not out to get you.
Don't flatter yourself.

I really do not care if this guy is gay, not one bit, but what would you guys say if RIP decided to come out of the closet? Would it bother you then?

I always thought Chauncey looked a little gay.

How 'bout Dorko? Everyone knows the Euros are gay.

Amaechi was nominally a Detroit-area native, having lived in Toledo as a teen to attract college scouts. Not that I understand why the hell anyone would select Toledo as a hopping basketball town...

Could care less and nobody should. I can understand the locker room thing, and the showers. But then again female reporters are in there too when they are changing so that kind of kills that notion. IMO a gay guy seein me naked is no different than an ugly chick seein me naked, Im not gonna bang either of em.

great. looks like i gotta go return that pair of Amaechi's i just bought.

IMO a gay guy seein me naked is no different than an ugly chick seein me naked, Im not gonna bang either of em.

That's fucking classic, and so true.

Former NBA player John Amaechi tells The Big Show about why he decided to come out of the closet.

Check it out...its the first podcast (www.1270sports.com)

If the station wasn't an hour and a half drive from my Toledo home, I'd become your new best friend so I could bug you for an internship. Let's hear it for radio broadcasting majors! Hahaha.

If the station wasn't an hour and a half drive from my Toledo home, I'd become your new best friend so I could bug you for an internship. Let's hear it for radio broadcasting majors! Hahaha.
<---this guy! lol

are you still working the afternoon slot or did you move with SI?

I dont work on any of the shows...

I am a spot fill in board op....I cover games mostly and work U of M football and Basketball broadcasts.

Got to get your foot in the door somehow. I've been doing some behind the scenes stuff with BCSN if anyone knows what that is, but its not much. Hopefully I'll find something this summer.

Holy shit.. anyone hear Tim Hardaway's comments about having a gay teammate???

Something to the affect of "I hate gay people."

Holy shit.. anyone hear Tim Hardaway's comments about having a gay teammate???

Something to the affect of "I hate gay people."

Wow, I heard this on the morning commute.

Nice way to blow up your legacy, Timmy.

Reminiscent of the John Rocker situation.

The only thing worse than making comments like this, is trying to make up some fake apology after the fact.

Hardaway = exposed

Wasn't he trying to get a coaching gig recently? Good luck with that now.


How does he hate gay people anyway. Dude played 6 seasons in MIAMI.[smilie=biker.gif]

(when did we get a garfield smilie? [smilie=garheard.gi:)

Anyone have a link to those comments? I missed it, due to the fact that I don't have AM radio anymore.

They are here on ESPN.com (http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2766213&name=FPT-2766213-021511&srvc=sz) now. He said he hates gays, etc.

The important parts:

"You know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known," Hardaway said. "I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

"First of all, I wouldn't want him on my team. "And second of all, if he was on my team, I would, you know, really distance myself from him because, uh, I don't think that's right. And you know I don't think he should be in the locker room while we're in the locker room. I wouldn't even be a part of that," he said.

Hearing the actual audio is better than just reading a transcript. For some reason, when you hear it, you really understand how ignorant this is.

http://www.miami.com/multimedia/miami/news/archive/audio/Tim%20Hardaway%202-14-07.html

As much as I hate LeBatard, he did a solid job calling him out.

IBTHFUHC

Oh wait, too late.

wow. How does that make it uncomfortable on the court (unless you are Kamen and you get grabbed in the balls)? I can understand the discomfort of sharing a shower with a gay guy, but on the court?

Just hit the rehab circuit with the Seinfeld guy and the other actor that just went in. He might meet Mel there too. Then all will be well

I don't understand the "locker room" thing. I'm quite sure that on teams I've played with, er, FOR, and while doing time in the Marines, I showered with a fag. Funny thing, I never noticed any boners.
I think people are just uncomfortable period if they let stuff like this get to them.

I'm prolly setting myself up for some ridicule here but I don't see why peeps act so shocked when someone says something like this. There will always be peeps that hate whites, blacks, gays, etc.

I'm surprised he would say it on ESPN, pretty fucking stupid, but I'm not shocked at all that some peeps feel this way.

Now the finger pointing can begin at Hardaway and rightfully so, but a lot of folks pointing fingers prolly have predjudice in them too.

you are correct, tahoe!
I love the self righteous media guys who harp all over someone when they say shit like this myself. Every talking head is a veritable "Mr Perfect" who doesn't agree with these kinds of comments. But then they talk about it for the next 500 years in an effort to sensationalize their usually boring, shitty radio shows.
Tim Hardaway is a non story. He's just an idiot, all the way around, and it shouldn't even make headlines.

And the worst part is because of this one guy's comments, people start to say "This is the reason gays don't come out until after they retired."

Not to mention this story should have died down a long time ago. John Amaechi sucked in the NBA and didn't deserve headlines, so why does he deserve headlines now? I'm already sick of this subject. Tim Hardaway just guaranteed that it will last at least another week.

John Amaechi sucked in the NBA. HOH MY!

I'm already sick of this subject. Tim Hardaway just guaranteed that it will last at least another week.

Stern (the NBA) will prolly hire Ameaci to counsel NBA players so Stern can keep a halo over his head.

In a related story Matt Millen looking to sign Hardaway.

can you imagine the wood that Dan Lebatard sprouted when he realized he had scored the controversial quote of the year......

I don't think Stearn has the money for a "Gay Counsleor" in the NBA.
He's too busy hiring counselors for :
Dealing with Paternity suits
Teaching "Safe Gun Operating" techniques
Wearing a condom when you rape a chick in Colorado
How to drive a tricked out Escalade while whacking off to porno movies
Correct ways to roll a joint
The "do's and don'ts" of tattooing
The "Maybe you CAN'T Rap" support group
The "Michael, please, ONE MORE COMEBACK" Brainwasher
The "Hey, at least we're not the NHL" advertizing campaign
Meeting with Ultimate Fighting Championship Commissioner about a possible merger
Keeping Charles Barkley away from NBA All Star Game buffet table
Teaching Charles Barkley to play "Crazy 8's" instead of Black Jack
I just don't see where Stern has the time or the budget for a "Gay Counselor". He'll just have to hope Richard Jefferson can do "double time" and save him some caysh.

Yeah, don't think for one second Lebotard didn't know this was coming. Hardaway has made these remarks before, just not so harshly. He played in Miami, where Leboatard spends his time boring us to death with his columns and pseudo radio shows.

Now the finger pointing can begin at Hardaway and rightfully so, but a lot of folks pointing fingers prolly have predjudice in them too.
the presidents main selling point is " i wont let them fags fuck up marriage" to get him re elected. so yea, most people are bigots in some format.

Turning this discussion back to basketball and away from personal politics/beliefs, I wonder how Rudy Gay feels about all of this?

Tim Hardaway : "I won't play with them Gay's"
Rudy Gay : "Well fuck you, too! We didn't want to play basketball with you anyway"

most people are bigots in some format.

I know I have my prejudices.

you are correct, tahoe!
I love the self righteous media guys who harp all over someone when they say shit like this myself. Every talking head is a veritable "Mr Perfect" who doesn't agree with these kinds of comments. But then they talk about it for the next 500 years in an effort to sensationalize their usually boring, shitty radio shows.
Tim Hardaway is a non story. He's just an idiot, all the way around, and it shouldn't even make headlines.

EXACTLY! how i feel.

I'm gay, and who isn't since the webber signing?

I don't understand the "locker room" thing. I'm quite sure that on teams I've played with, er, FOR, and while doing time in the Marines, I showered with a fag. Funny thing, I never noticed any boners.
I think people are just uncomfortable period if they let stuff like this get to them.
Long long ago, a gay guy hit on me at a club as I was exiting a bathroom stall and washing my hands. I didn't react well to it, telling the asshole with the "strong mouth" that was "better than a woman's for blowjobs" to get the fuck away from me! I briefly wished I'd have had the foresight to beat the shit out of the guy afterwards.

This surprised me.

I'm all for gay relationships, sex, civil unions, marriages, whatever floats their boat. I go "eww" when I see gay guys buttfucking (and lesbo sex does nada for me -- they should fuck me not each other, damnit), but I figure that's a part of my being wired "straight". I had no idea I had such hostility over the matter. I was wondering if I was really as homophobic as my reaction. Then, one of my friends told me it was the BATHROOM, of all places, and it hit me...

Folks generally don't expect sexual tension when they're taking a dump in the shitter, or other such vulnerable position. I'd have a similarly jerky reaction if some couple was fucking in the stall next to me, or if I were in the doctor's office dropping my drawers for a potentially gay doctor. I suspect the locker room holds a similar place in some folks' minds, even if the fear doesn't match the reality. Just one story of having video recordings in the locker room by some obsessive weirdo to whack off to (and share on YouRub) is enough to spook a lot of folks.

Of course, "feeling vulnerable" is not a particularly manly conversation, and it doesn't take much to demonize something that makes a lot of folks go ewww, so the subject gets dumbed down to "hating gays in the locker room". I think that's a separate thing than "hating gays in general". A lot of folks probably don't mind gays doing their own thing, but not while their dicks are blowing in the wind.

There aren't any "Hate Parameters". You either hate or you don't.
I got no problem with saying "The thought of two guys..." Wait a fucking minute: Did you just say you "go 'ewww' when you see gay guys butt fucking?
I have to say, I have never seen "gay guys butt fucking".
Justify, brother, but justify for yourself. You're only vulnerable if you're afraid, or if you are hiding something.

You either hate everything or you don't? Most people have more nuanced feelings than that. There's folks who violently object to gays in locker rooms who might not object to gays in general. I'm trying to describe why that may be so, based off my own experience with something in the same vein.

And as for why I've seen what I've seen, call it an occupational hazard. I've also had to deal with child and teen porn and felt repulsed by it. That doesn't make me a pedophile.

Moxie:
Allow myself to rephrase,...er, myself.
I didn't mean you do or don't hate "everything", just that you either hate SOMEthing or you don't.
I fell that if you have "no problem" with gays, or whatever, then you have NO PROBLEM with them. You don't qualify it by saying things like, "I'm all for gays, but, just, not in the military, I can see how guys in the locker room would be uncomfortable, they shouldn't adopt children, and the Bible says they are going to rot in hell forever, and I don't want them living next to me, and they're all sick perverts. BUT, you know, I don't have a problem with them"
Of course, I'm exaggerrating a tad, but the point there is again, if you got NO problem with them, then you got NO problem with them. The phrase "I have a problem with..." means just that: It's YOUR problem, not theirs (within reason, of course we ALL have a problem with MSU fans, but we just have to live with them).
And, I didn't mean to imply that you go out and buy "Gay Guys Butt Fucking, Pts 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) etc. I just thought that was kind of a strange way to make a point.
Now, I've lived in San Francisco, and you DO see "Gay Guys Making Out, pts 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc), but it stops being weird after about the second or third time (And you don't have to TRY it just to know it's not your bag, or you don't have to try it just because you live in San Francisco).

Well, I was summarizing an encounter that happened a buncha years ago, trying to present the perspective I had then. I went "eww" a long time ago, but these days it's more like "ehh".

My point is that when most people who say "no problems", they still have all sorts of implicit socio-cultural boundaries. Having no problems with someone doesn't mean that you're ok with them wiping your ass while you're in the crapper, does it? Most people who worry about gays in the locker room worry about some unthinkable action the gays might perform. If there's anything people understand about sex, it's that it can lead to unexpected reactions and isn't generally associated with pitch-perfect control (all you tantric black widow prostitute sorts can laugh now). All sorts of low-odds scenarios get dreamed up and fuel fear, and that's even among people who don't care about what gays do in general.

Of course, my initial take at a semi-serious response to this was going to be to point out that the anti-gay statutes in Michigan wouldn't have succeeded without black help, but I figured that was too touchy a subject. :)

I wonder what McMom ("http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/member.php?u=824') would think of this thread?

Now, I've lived in San Francisco, and you DO see "Gay Guys Making Out, pts 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc), but it stops being weird after about the second or third time (And you don't have to TRY it just to know it's not your bag, or you don't have to try it just because you live in San Francisco). You do have to try it when the guy you rent an apartment from is 6'9 and show up at your door crying because his boyfriend just broke up with him and he needs some emotional support. But who doesn't enjoy a little mustache hair in their mouth.

Zip, you should have left the original. Don't be ashamed.

Anybody else been hit on by a member of the other sexual orientation? (Heterosexual and been hit on by a homosexual, homosexual and been hit on by a heterosexual?)

I myself have had 3 such encounters (never as far as a bathroom bj invite). Once some guy at a club tried to make out with me. Once I was bowling with my buddys and a girl in the lane next to me slipped me the phone number of the guy who she was bowling with (would have been more dissapointing if she had been cuter). And once my fan belt broken as I was driving down woodward and I had walked to a Murray's about a mile a way for a new one and some radiator fluid. On my way back this brown van pulls up to the curb next to me and this 300lb guy says to me "You've got a big dick, don't ya?" Yeah, that one was weird.

I am also confused at what Zip is trying to say. I have no problem with people actually being gay. It's their choice. I do have a problem with them marrying in a church (if they want to marry at a courthouse or other non-religeous place where marraige is a sacrament between a man and women, that is fine). Does that make me have a problem with them? i don't think so. I don't feel that men should be allowed to play on the LPGA (just an example of playing with women), does that mean I have a problem with other men? No. The act of being gay is not a problem with me. However, there are certain things gays should not be able to do (marry in a church as I mentioned). Is being in a men's lockerroom one of them? I don't know. Either way that doesn't mean I have a problem with them, just that particular act.

a church? you're under the impression that orthodox Christianity is the governments only legal faith to have a church.

a church? you're under the impression that orthodox Christianity is the governments only legal faith to have a church.

My point is that any church that defines marraige as a union of man and women should not allow it. I have no idea what other faiths support and don't support.

The government can't make a church marry anyone. I don't see your issue Chris.

The government can't make a church marry anyone. I don't see your issue Chris.

I wasn't saying anything about the government. I only meant that faiths should not bend from that tradition. Many people feel catholic priests should be allowed to marry (I am one of them), and that the church should change that rule. How can someone tell me how to make a good marraige without having first hand knowledge? I am simply saying that churches how don't allow gay marriage shouldn't allow it in the future either. I don't have an issue at all (since it hasn't been allowed), I am simply stating my support of that rule to show that I can have issues with certain things happening, but not have issues with the lifestyle in general.

gotcha

I don't want to get into the "church" issue, especially the catholic church. People preaching a ten thousand year old fairy tale that has never been proven, and attempting to govern society by it make me wretch.
Having said that, if a church refuses to sanction gay marriage, that is certainly their right.
However, if another church does, then said church ought to recognize it, and if the government ever sanctions it, then the church, while maybe not permitting it under their rules, needs to recognize that it is legal or whatever.
Besides, I've always said that gay marriage does nothing to destroy the institution of marriage, us hetero's have been doing that just fine by ourselves forever, thank you.

Fool:
Say, I just noticed when you posted my quote, at the end was some blurb about a 6'9 black guy showing me an apartment and wanting some consoling about losing his boyfriend.
Where did THAT come from? THAT wasn't part of MY quote!
Besides, the guy was only 6'5, and I REALLY needed that apartment.
I'm just glad he wasn't showing me a house....

I know I have my prejudices.


Now there's an honest soul.

We'd all like to say we're not prejudiced. We'd all like to think it, too. But it is very, very rare for it to actually be true.

I have two blood relatives who are gay. I'd love to think I have no problem with homosexuality. But I'd be lying.

Do I have a problem with gay people existing? No.

But do I want to watch one gay man have anal sex with another? Hell no.

In between those two extremes are thousands of shades of gray, and most of us have some point along the scale in between where, if we are honest, we become uncomfortable.

It doesn't make it right or wrong. But it's there.

I don't want to get into the "church" issue, especially the catholic church. People preaching a ten thousand year old fairy tale that has never been proven, and attempting to govern society by it make me wretch.
Having said that, if a church refuses to sanction gay marriage, that is certainly their right.
However, if another church does, then said church ought to recognize it, and if the government ever sanctions it, then the church, while maybe not permitting it under their rules, needs to recognize that it is legal or whatever.
Besides, I've always said that gay marriage does nothing to destroy the institution of marriage, us hetero's have been doing that just fine by ourselves forever, thank you.

Way to avoid the "church issue" there Zip.

The black guy was in my story, the one I made up for you was unspecified.

I have a problem with marriage being anything other than a religious issue, for a given religion to have or -not- have (e.g. the Puritans, against marriage as a church function because Jesus never got married) as they see fit. Marriage should confer no legal, tax, medical, etc. status. The primary reasons governments instituted the legal apparatus around marriage are largely going away. There's no need to encourage population growth by taxing single people. Marriages aren't arranged to merge the business interests of two families. Women aren't the "property" of the husband, and don't need to be in order to prosper. Technology makes pre-marital sex more ubiquitous, and more kids have unmarried parents than married parents, and the courts deal with that. Paternity has genetic tests, as seen on Maury Povich ("Zip Goshboots, you ARE the father!"). Gay or straight, if you want legal status, rights, etc. associated with coupling, enter into a contract with a civil union.

Everyone has prejudice and bias. Hell, we probably NEED it. Much as some amount of bias in an electrical physics and information theory sense can help provide real clarity to a signal, some amount of bias helps people to see more clearly because they have to stop and really consider stuff. What's bad is when people don't realize that they have prejudice, or where the source is, and let learned internalized behaviors and other instincts overwhelm the rest of their brains and the rest of us. Most of what we call "prejudice" comes from complex conditioning. We're not really "pre-judging" so much as judging based on stuff we were born and raised to, and not called or calling on ourselves to critically evaluate once we're older and distanced from it. A baby pre-judges what sounds its mouth will make to form words it hears, then goes through iterations of corrective loops with the parents to get to where "dad" sounds like "dad". This gets harder to do as our brains get more full and mom and dad don't have all life's answers, but that doesn't mean it's not worth the effort.

Now there's an honest soul.

We'd all like to say we're not prejudiced. We'd all like to think it, too. But it is very, very rare for it to actually be true.

I have two blood relatives who are gay. I'd love to think I have no problem with homosexuality. But I'd be lying.

Do I have a problem with gay people existing? No.

But do I want to watch one gay man have anal sex with another? Hell no.

In between those two extremes are thousands of shades of gray, and most of us have some point along the scale in between where, if we are honest, we become uncomfortable.

It doesn't make it right or wrong. But it's there.
Giffman's deepest post ever. Scary.[smilie=peepwall.gi:

Moxie:
Couldn't agree more. I too have the legal and "church" problems with the marriage industry that you laid out.
That's just a great post, man.
As for paternity issues, well, I had a different name for each woman I met there for awhile. Hard to trace.
I dated a chick off and on once for about a year, and the whole time she thought I was "John Armstrong". Never did come clean. Never took her home, either.

As for paternity issues, well, I had a different name for each woman I met there for awhile. Hard to trace.
I dated a chick off and on once for about a year, and the whole time she thought I was "John Armstrong".

I can see why you'd need to come up with some aliases.

Not too many "Goshbootses" in the phone book, you'd be pretty easy to track down.

ROFLMAOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

aA20dKc3kK8

And now for the creepier side: Someone responded to Hardaway's homophobic comments by confirming them, by posting videos of Tim Hardaway nekkid (you only see his butt) in the locker room from his NBA days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL4zpbG2ZCU

Of course, this is precisely the sort of crap that validates Hardaway.