We've talked about several of the names here for ages it seems, but let's really try to identify the universe of PGs that Joe is looking at.

Earl Watson
Jason Hart
Marko "not really a PG" Jaric
Mike James
Jalen Rose

are just a few that have been discussed here lately.

What attributes do you think we need in a #2 PG?

Here's how I would rank what we need:

1. The ability to stop dribble penetration
2. The ability to get our guys open looks in the half court offense
3. Willing to accept the role that we have available
4. They have to be acquirable within reason, most likely from a team in need of a big (maybe that should be #1?)

Marko "not really a PG" Jaric
yes he is and he's defended at the position fairly solid when i've seen him play. gave cbill a few fits at times.

Okay, that's your opinion, but let's not derail this topic to discuss Jaric and Jaric alone, we can do that in the Jaric thread.

Why don't you post the qualities that you think are important for our next backup PG, and then we can look for a fit.

Defend the position, see the floor to atleast an average extent, handling ability, driving ability(not slasher, but just enough to get in thge paint) and game management to some extent.

Delonte West is a guy that is intriguing to me. He meets most of the criteria that I feel we need, but his salary might be too low for a match with one of our bigs.

Boston's got 3 PGs of similar skill levels, and need bigs like maybe no other team in the NBA.

EDIT: Brevin Knight's name probably should have been listed in the opening post as well.

I would agree with your qualities Glenn.

I'd like a younger Lindsay Hunter that can knock down an open jumper but doesn't need to score a lot. I guess Derek Fisher on offense and Hunter on defense would be fine.

what would the stankass green puke piece of shit celtics want for him?[smilie=peepwall.gi: if they take flip murray i'd bite on a west deal.

I'd like a younger Lindsay Hunter that can knock down an open jumper but doesn't need to score a lot. I guess Derek Fisher on offense and Hunter on defense would be fine.
...and if they had Lindsey Hunter's handle and court vision, I'd still rather have them at SG than PG.

Kind of goes along with game management, but a PG who doesnt rush the offense. Of course if the fast break is open, go for it... but once that isnt there back it up like Chauncey and wait for the play to develop. Too many times I see guys try for the fast break, get stopped by two or three guys, and then start driving again anyway.

I'd love to get Delonte as our backup, but I don't think the Celts would deal him for one of our men. It'd be awesome if we could get him for Nazr and/or Flip M. Hell, take Flip S while you're at it ;)

I think the Pistons need a PG who can do multiple things. I think the players ability to play mulitple positions is secondary but a huge plus.

I think to focus one ability is the wrong way to go. We aren't looking for a starting PG we are looking for a top reserve guard.

I believe that we also need to look at making moves that bring some extra insurance for next season. What I mean by that is we need to acquire a guy who either can allow us to go go over the cap to keep him or is locked up. We can't afford going into the off season with mulitple holes and just the MLE to fill the holes, like happened because of Uncle Scrooge's lack of wanting to do a S&T.

My list is in order of who I want first is 1. Jaric, he can be a solid bench player he locks up the bench at multiple positions, he has a "bad contract" that will end up not appearing that way in June. He plays solid defense, which is an attribute that is lacking on the team. His defense coupled with his size would allow us to play both Him and LH if we want to pressure teams.

2. Earl Watson. I think he is a great defender and great role player but his game is suffering because he doesn't have the healthy talent around him.

3. Mike James. For me he is third for one reason, Minny isn't parting with him as long as they still have Jaric. If Jaric gets moved, happy or gains back favor then James moves up to number 1 for me.

4. Jalen Rose I think he is a great fit and he can help us like Jaric 1-3, but without bird rights or other guys agreeing to minimum deals, he may require the MLE if he has a Mike James like playoff run with us.

5. Jason Hart doesn't make me feel like he could help us. Plus if he were to work out he would bolt to get a bigger paid day.

jalen worries me because of his defense and he doesnt use his length like he should. something i like about Jaric is that he does and can give pg's no good look at the basket. Guys like Jason williams, gilbert arenas, donkey jones would have trouble trying to get off 3 pointers on him with a good look.

What PGs do you guys consider to be the best at stopping dribble penetration?

Of those, how many are realistic targets?

Jaric
Watson
mike James
jason Kidd
Kurt heinrich
gary payton
bobby jackson
Brent Barry
Lindsey Hunter(already got him of course)
devin harris
Eric Snow


guys we have a shot at maybe are bolded.

I wish we could get Hinrich. He's the exact type on player we need. Too bad Chicago won't trade him to us.

Actually, Eric Snow would be pretty nice too if he didn't have that contract and he didn't play for one of our division rivals.

Maybe they'll buy him out so we can get him for free, just like CWebb?

Is that getting greedy?

Eric Snow would be nice and so would Mike James. I'm not a fan of Jaric or Jalen.

What about young PGs that we don't really know much about? I'm sure there are some out there that are above average defenders, solid ball handlers, don't make the flashy pass but are good decision-makers. They aren't the best shooters but they run the offense well. I would find that to be a solid pickup instead of Me-First Murray.

I just reread what I wrote and realized that's what Blalock could be if we'd been giving him 6-7 minutes a game to develop or if we'd had him in the NBDL getting big minutes to develop.

I actually don't think Blaylock is that far off from being what we need. Maybe with Hunter healthy and some tutoring on defense he could be what we need. Hunter wasn't a good defender like that when we drafted him. He was a scorer. But he developed into a stopper. Maybe he can show Blaylock a thing or two.

I actually don't think Blaylock is that far off from being what we need. Maybe with Hunter healthy and some tutoring on defense he could be what we need. Hunter wasn't a good defender like that when we drafted him. He was a scorer. But he developed into a stopper. Maybe he can show Blaylock a thing or two.
Once Lindsey retires, Blalock seems like the heir apparent. He seems to be a solid defender, from what I've seen.

I think he stays in front of his man well, but he doesn't force turn overs like Hunter does. Lindsay makes people panic and make bad passes. Blaylock needs to learn that from him. Delfino also stays in front of his man well, but also doesn't create turnovers (on his man...he does jump passing lanes well off the ball). I'd like to see both develop the knack to poke the ball away and create a turnover. That and draw a charge (Delfino is pretty good at that off the ball).

webber negates our dire need for a backup PG, at least for this year.

Not that we couldnt use one, but with webber on the floor we have another guy to run the offense through, and lindsey's duties are cut in half.

Webber is great to funnel through, but you still need a true PG, which was evident in philly where they had really(Iverson is more of a scoring guard).

Again I like hunters game more than everybody here(you haters hide when he does well). [smilie=peepwall.gi: But I dont like having to wear him out through the rest of the season.

Philly's problems ran a lot depper than just point guard.

Philly's problems ran a lot depper than just point guard.
Agreed. But nevertheless they didnt have one for the most part. Only point i'm making is that you still need a PG regardless of his passing skills. You just dont have to expect as much from him. But webber's addition is part of why I dont mind who Dumars gets as a pg, as long as they are legit and dont do ISO shyt like Flip did.

Jaric can fill that kind of limited role.

It's highly likely that no matter who we get, lindsey plays in the playoffs anyway.

I think he stays in front of his man well, but he doesn't force turn overs like Hunter does. Lindsay makes people panic and make bad passes. Blaylock needs to learn that from him. Delfino also stays in front of his man well, but also doesn't create turnovers (on his man...he does jump passing lanes well off the ball). I'd like to see both develop the knack to poke the ball away and create a turnover. That and draw a charge (Delfino is pretty good at that off the ball).

part of the reason they don't create turnovers like Lindsey does is because neither have Lindsey's defensive reputation, allowing them to reach in and play pretty aggressive defense. Lindsey does reach in quite a bit and he plays pretty physical. if Blalock tried that, he'd foul out in 15 minutes.

i know the discussion was earlier, but i think Delonte West is out of the picture because of Tony Allen's season ending injury. i believe West is starting again.

Defend the position, see the floor to atleast an average extent, handling ability, driving ability(not slasher, but just enough to get in thge paint) and game management to some extent.

Sounds like Lindsey to me...


Why is everyone so obsessed over a backup PG who when the games that matter are played, they might get 8-10 minutes of action. Is it really that HUGE of a need? I mean, I just don't see it.

It looked a lot worse than it was, because without billups we had nobody to keep the offense running.

Jaric can fill that kind of limited role.

It's highly likely that no matter who we get, lindsey plays in the playoffs anyway.
Which is why you dont wanna go hard for a bigger than average name unless they are really young with more than a year on their contract.. Again i think Jaric makes sense for it, but i dont care who he gets as long they are an upgrade over flip and keep lindsey from getting hurt before the playoffs.

:mccosky:


Right now, it seems priority one is to get a back-up point guard. No new names to throw into the mix. The Suns are trying to move Marcus Banks, but I would think the Pistons could do better than that.

Mike James Bitch!ing...
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/basketball/16678693.htm


James isn't happy with benching
Offseason pickup hints at possible trade

BY RICK ALONZO
Pioneer Press

Mike James didn't sign up for this.

Last summer, he had free-agent contract offers from the likes of the Dallas Mavericks and the Houston Rockets. He picked Minnesota's offer and the opportunity to be a starter and a significant player alongside Kevin Garnett.

He wasn't happy when he found out Saturday from coach Randy Wittman that he wouldn't be starting Sunday's game against the Boston Celtics. It wasn't what he had imagined for himself when he joined the Wolves.

"Not at all," James said after his team's 109-107 victory. "But they were preparing him, and they were seasoning him, Randy (Foye, the rookie who took James' place Sunday). This is what they want for him. They're getting what they want. It's tough at times because I just feel like, if I'm not a fit here, then like they always say, if it ain't one place, it always can be another."

James was indicating that he could have been — and might yet be — a better fit elsewhere. His reaction to the change in the starting lineup?

"He's the boss (Wittman), so you've got no choice but to … whatever he says goes, so I can't worry about nothing I have no control over," James said. "I don't think that it was right, but that's his decision, so that's what he went with."

James has to make his role work with the Wolves, apparently as a reserve for the foreseeable future.

"You've just got to play the game," James said. "The game is the game. When you're on the court, you've just got to take advantage of it. It don't matter."

Whether the move to Foye is considered a short-term fix or a long-term move remains to be seen. But it wouldn't make much sense to make this change without committing to it for the long term.

If the Wolves are committed to Foye, they might have a problem on their hands with James. It's doubtful James would have signed with Minnesota to be a reserve. The winter weather is demanding, and the team finished 33-49 last season. He could have signed with Dallas and been a reserve on one of the best teams in the NBA, or he could have signed with Houston and possibly been a starter for another one of the Western Conference's top teams.

He might not have received as much money, however. James signed a four-year contract worth about $23.5 million.

Veteran Kevin Garnett said he thinks James can remain a valuable member of the team. James finished with five points, three assists and no turnovers in 14 minutes.

"Mike's a vet," Garnett said. "He knows how the league works. He knows he has to be professional and stay ready. Just because he's not a starter doesn't necessarily mean we don't need him. It's not about one person around here, it's about what's best for this team. We've all got full faith that he'll do that. He was ready (against Boston). Played good minutes, kept things afloat. Cheering on Randy, so that was a good thing."

Also, Rob Parker is seemingly suggesting that Rashard Phillips is what we need in a backup PG: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070212/SPORTS08/702120343/1127/SPORTS0102

Tell him to wipe his tears with that loot he sold himself for. Foye is better than James. Hell yes its the right move.

It's the right move. Now make another and send him here for Nazr and Flip. 14 MPG is prety lowsy for him. James and Delfino could split the backup 1,2,3 minutes. Give Hunter 5-10 MPG here and there too for a change of pace, and to have the pit bulls back.

The fear is that Mike James in 2-3 years is washed up. Can he still defend? I can see where Randy Foye is a Vinnie Johnson in a three-guard rotation, but I don't see where he beats out Mike James for a starting PG gig.

Joe has inquired about Chucky, and some Mike James fluff.

:mccosky:


Atkins is a long shot to join Pistons

Burning questions as the Pistons shop for perimeter players:

Q. Chucky Atkins doesn't seem to be in the long-term plans for the Grizzlies. What is his contract situation? And wouldn't he fit what the Pistons are looking for?

A. Atkins is in the final year of his contract ($3 million) and will be looking for a long-term deal this summer. Yes, he is exactly the type of perimeter player the Pistons are looking for. And yes, the Pistons have made inquiries about him -- several, in fact. The problem is, Grizzlies president Jerry West wants to hang on to Atkins in case he needs to use his salary in a bigger deal.

Q. So there's no way the Pistons can get him?

A. It's a long shot. It depends on what happens with Pau Gasol. If the Grizzlies can find a deal to their liking that doesn't involve Atkins, there is a possibility the Pistons could land him. But it's more probable Atkins would be part of any Gasol package.

Q. Speaking of popular ex-Pistons unhappy in their current roles, Mike James has been benched in Minnesota. Any chance of the Pistons prying him away?

A. That, too, is a long shot. The Pistons already have talked to the Timberwolves about Nazr Mohammed for Marko Jaric or Troy Hudson. Mohammed and James both signed mid-level exception contracts last summer -- Mohammed for five years, James for four -- so the money would work.

But even though the Timberwolves have a glut of similarly skilled perimeter players, I can't believe they want to give up on James that quickly.

Also, if they were intent on trading James, my guess is general manager Kevin McHale would try to get a better deal. Besides, you have to know that he's not much interested in helping the coach he fired (Flip Saunders) win a championship.

And the Pistons would have to be a little concerned, too. With James, it would be like 2004. He would certainly offer a spark to that bench unit. But what about going forward? He's not going to be happy playing 10 to 15 minutes a night for the three remaining years on his contract. He fancies himself a starter.

That wouldn't be a deal-breaker for the Pistons because, worst-case scenario, they move him in the summer. Both parties would know going in James was only going to be a short-term solution. Still, I can't see Minnesota doing that deal.

How obvious is it that McCosky writes those questions himself? lol

Here's what Rasheed's favorite journalist has to say about Mike James on a list of those players most likely to move by the deadline:

2. Mike James, Timberwolves
In the category of "seemed like a good idea at the time" (see Harrington, Al, in Indiana), we point to Minnesota's signing of this free agent last summer as the next mistake the Wolves will try to rectify.

The Heat are very interested, but so too are the Pistons and Cavaliers. And since Detroit (able and willing to move Nazr Mohammed, Dale Davis and Flip Murray) can likely outbid Cleveland and Miami, the educated guess here is that James is back playing Deeee-troit bas-ket-ball by this time next week.

Would James only get 10-15 MPG next year here? I'd have to think that Hunter would retire and Delfino/James would basically split the backup 1,2,3 spots. That's 20-25 MPG at least. Sure, he wants to start, but title runs can change your mind I think.

James knows his role. He aint crazy enough to think himself better than billups, so his ego will be easy to negotiate. In Minny he is benched for a rookie. that hurt his ego.

:langlois:


Joe Dumars is well aware of everybody in that rear-view mirror and, as the trade deadline approaches one week from today, he’s wondering what his next move should be. He doesn’t necessarily need a pit stop to get to the finish line first – unless somebody else undergoes a complete engine overhaul and gets back on the track with the most powerful machine in the field.

So what to do?

And here’s where our little analogy starts to unravel. Because this isn’t all about Joe Dumars. The decision isn’t entirely his to make. He’s made phone calls around the league, willing to tinker and tweak. And he still has the same excess of big men he had on the day Chris Webber signed – Jan. 16, if you’re keeping score, a day every other GM in the league sat straight up in his seat – when Dumars said it was “probably inevitable” he would have to trade one of them.

He came close to shipping Nazr Mohammed to Minnesota in a deal for Marko Jaric, but it fell apart when the Timberwolves fired Dwane Casey for Randy Wittman and suddenly Jaric was back in the rotation. It’s also fair to wonder if Minnesota’s front office got cold feet at the prospect of telling ownership that it was going to trade Jaric – for whom the Timberwolves parted with Sam Cassell and a No. 1 draft pick before last season – for a guy buried at the end of Detroit’s bench.

Things are going well for the Pistons, their Wednesday night loss to San Antonio aside. They’re 11-3 since Webber became a starter, their offense is showing every sign of being more potent than it’s been since Dumars took over the team nearly seven years ago, and fears that Webber was so broken down that their defense would become porous now seem baseless, if not laughable.

But Dumars would sleep a little better if he had one more veteran perimeter player on the bench, someone who could run the offense so Chauncey Billups wouldn’t have to play 40-plus minutes a night and Lindsey Hunter could concentrate on what he does better than any other guard in the league – be a momentum-changing catalyst on the defensive end. In other words, Dumars would like to add a bench player who could affect a game on the offensive end in the same way Hunter does defensively.

Toward that end, he’s made phone calls inquiring about the availability of Minnesota’s Mike James, Memphis’ Chucky Atkins and Charlotte’s Brevin Knight. But nothing is close, he told me this week, and that probably means nothing will happen before Thursday as that afternoon’s deadline nears – if at all.

James signed a big free-agent contract last summer, but Jaric’s re-emergence and the play of rookie Randy Foye makes him expendable in Minnesota, which has a glaring frontcourt depth problem that Mohammed would address. The Pistons have long had interest in Knight, a cagey veteran who piles up big assist numbers and finds ways to get his shot off – but has trouble staying healthy.

Atkins’ contract is up after the year, which makes him a very attractive bargaining chip for Memphis to use as part of a bigger deal – and the threat of Memphis moving Pao Gasol has a lot of GMs, Dumars among them, wondering how different the landscape might look on Feb. 23 than it does today.

The best guess is that the Eastern Conference teams that pose the biggest threat to the Pistons over the season’s final 30 games and, more critically, into the postseason, are Chicago and Miami, though neither one right now has much muscle to flex.