From Blakely's Blog...


Problems in Pistonsville?

Monday, January 08, 2007

With losses in four of the last five games, the Pistons have clearly not been playing their best basketball.

But according to Detroit's Tayshaun Prince, this team has other problems as well.

"We've had a couple guys late to practice the past couple of weeks. Stuff going on in the locker room ... that's what's hurting us, more than anything," Prince said.

I'll have more on this on mlive.com and in the Booth newspapers tomorrow.

Some of you laughed off my "Trouble Brewing" thread two weeks ago (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7864), but it looks like there is something going on here.




I'm a bit surprised that I'm the only one that views this as a potential problem.

Sure, we'd all like to see Sheed down in the paint more, but if he tried and they didn't get him the ball, why does that mean he'll keep trying more?

To me, this sounds like trouble in the lockeroom. Maybe it's not major, but I really think there is something there. Maybe it goes back to Sheed wanting to be named a captain and not getting selected?

I know that some here have questioned Billups' leadership abilities, and maybe there is something to that after all.

Doesn't this belong in the "see, I told you so" forum?

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showpost.php?p=150619&postcount=25

Flip rips Pistons' attitude

The Pistons' attitude that they can "flip the switch" at will does not sit well with the man in charge.

Pistons coach Flip Saunders called a team meeting before today's practice and demanded more discipline and purpose.

Tayshaun Prince, one of the team's three captains, backed Saunders.

"Basketball is not the problem with our team," Prince said. "I think it's the chemistry, and that's not how it's been in the past. I think the chemistry's got to get right, then everything on the court will take care of itself. (Saunders discussed) just trying to sharpen up, things like that. And I think those are the right things. Because that's what I think is hurting us more than anything.

"For it to come out now I think it should have came out sooner. But it came out now. And hopefully guys will realize what needs to be done. If me, Chaunce (Chauncey Billups), and Rip (Richard Hamilton) need to do a better job of leading by example -- so be it."

Saunders said he's had it with players looking past the regular season. The Pistons have played inconsistently, beating the top teams while unable to muster effort against losing clubs.

"I've heard enough about the playoffs, 'Let's wait for the playoffs' -- that doesn't cut it with me," Saunders said, referencing recemt remarks from Rasheed Wallace. "We've got to get a mindset to go out and know every game we play is the most important game that night.

"We've gone 31 games now, we can't do anything about what's happened through those 31. But what we can do is worry about the 51 (to play) and take the steps necessary in order to be a championship team at the end. But you've got to play basketball all year long. You just can't play at the end."

Saunders has been talking about changing the Pistons' tendency to "flip the switch" since training camp. He wants them to stop thinking they can coast through games, then go into another gear at the end to win.

" I think it's common, I think every team thinks they can just do that -- but it's a dangerous game to play. Because all of a sudden, you flip it on and it might not quite be there, and now you're playing in a pressure-type situation. I think that's kind of what happened to us last year in Miami," Saunders said.
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070108/UPDATE/701080422

when tay says me, chauncy, and tay, he really narrows it down. for all practical purposes we're still a 6 man team. so who do you think he's worried about?

So do we Flip the switch or switch the Flip?

What bugs me with Tayshaun mouthing off here is that he's been sucking pretty hard. If there was anyone who I think needs a kick over the past 5-10 games who isn't injured, it'd be Tayshaun. Rip's been doing well. Nazr hasn't gotten in much foul trouble in the past few games, yet still hasn't gotten very many minutes. Sheed's been mostly shitty, but he's been injured and playing some limited minutes and that's given JMax some time to shine. Flip Murray ain't no Chauncey Billups. And Tayshaun has been shooting 30-odd % for the past several games and letting his man blow him by.

Joe orders the CODE REDs and Tayshaun executes them. He's management material. Teflon Tay.

the team captains thing was always weird to me. With Ben gone, we're basically talking about 4 real Pistons left (before all of the moves/aquisitions). then they said "3 of the 4 are captains".

Lindsey Hunter should have been the new co-captain. It makes sense, everybody respects him, and it offends nobody. As long as it didn't mean him getting a ton of more minutes.

I blame MUHME personally.
Oh, and I don't care about the regular season record.

Flip's all about "well its just hard to get up for certain teams" and "sometimes you start slow after a day or two off" type bullshit. This latest is just posturing because the team fell out of first. If we won the other day he'd be all about giving excuses for being lazy and not doing the many things he talked about following during the offseason, just like normal.

Of course the team's been lazy. Their record was damn near perfect on back-to-backs (in other words, when faced with a challenge) and horrid on games in the middle of time off. That's part of the reason we've wanted to see the bench so much. Because watching guys who are clearly dissinterested ain't all that fun.

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. - It didn’t take long for Tayshaun Prince to accept the mantle of leadership. Elevated to a captaincy role to start the season, Prince on Monday said the Pistons have chemistry issues that need to be corrected so their basketball potential can be realized.
“Basketball is not the problem with our team right now,” Prince said. “I think it’s the chemistry. That’s not how it’s been in the past, last year and the year before. The chemistry has to get right and the basketball - everything on the court - will take care of itself.”

Flip Saunders didn’t use the “c” word, but he did admonish the team before practice started, he said afterward.

“I approached our guys today,” he said. “I’ve heard enough about the playoffs. That doesn’t cut it with me. We’ve got an obligation not only to ourselves and our teammates, but also to the fans. I know if I buy a ticket to Bob Seger, I want to see a performance the first night the same as I get the last night. We are entertainers, too. We’ve got to get a mind-set that every game we play, that’s the most important game that night.”

On the crisis meter, this one doesn’t register very seriously. It’s a veteran team taking stock of itself and holding each other’s feet to the fire. The fact that Saunders took the initiative to air the matter now and that Prince not only backed him up but went a step further, all in all, are healthy signs. If one of Saunders’ captains had pushed back, then there would be legitimate reason to wonder where this season might be headed.

“The reason I’m talking about it is it’s something we talked about today,” Prince said. “It needed to come out at this point. I think it should have come out a little sooner, but it came out now and hopefully guys will realize what needs to be done. If me, Chauncey (Billups) and Rip (Hamilton), the captains, have to do a better job of leading by example, then so be it. I think it was better (it came from) the coaches and let guys know that, hey, we’ve got to get more focused. By the way things went in practice today, hopefully it will keep going down that route.

“We’ve had a couple guys late for practice the last couple of weeks. He mentioned that, just trying to get here on time, stuff in the locker room, just trying to sharpen up and focus on things a lot better. I think that’s the right thing. I think that’s what’s hurting us more than anything.”

Veteran Lindsey Hunter, who participated in his first practice in more than a month, offers the perspective of one who has won NBA titles with both the Pistons and Lakers and has 13 years in his rear-view mirror.

“No, we don’t have a chemistry problem,” he said. “Being a veteran team the way we are, I think there are some things we take for granted because we’ve had so much success in the past and you get spoiled with certain things. When you continue to try to go that route and things don’t work the same way, you’ve got to make some changes, do some things differently. That’s where we are.”

Rasheed Wallace, who has struggled with ankle and knee problems and has not played up to par over the last few weeks, said recently - as he has alluded in the past - that the Pistons sometimes get bored with the regular season and anticipate the playoffs.

That goes to the “flip the switch” mentality that Saunders has consistently fought since arriving in Detroit and met head-on at the start of training camp this season.

“The previous two coaches here worked on it and I continue to work on it,” he said. “It’s kind of like a rock. In order to break it, you’ve got to keep hitting it and eventually it’s going to crack. Eventually, we’ll crack and understand there is no switch. We’re the second- or third-oldest team in the league. The league has changed. It’s a much more athletic, aggressive type league and you have to rely on your ability to go out and execute.

“Usually when you turn on a switch, you’re counting on (the fact) you’re going to have more energy than the other team. And that’s not always the case. That’s not going to happen in our league any more. Younger teams have a lot of energy and enthusiasm and you’re not going to be able to flip that switch on them.”


Saunders said Chauncey Billups will not play against Philadelphia on Tuesday. It might be tough for Billups to get back before the end of the week, in that scenario, because Saunders usually gives them a day off after playing back-to-backs, and that means Billups might not practice until next week with back-to-backs Tuesday and Wednesday and Friday and Saturday.
Hunter, meanwhile, ruled himself out of Tuesday’s game after testing himself in practice Monday.

“I’m going to have a nice suit on the (sideline), trying to help my team,” he said. “I have no earthly idea (of a timetable for his return). I just have to work hard and when I’m back, I’m back.”

from detroitpistons site

Doesn't this belong in the "see, I told you so" forum?

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showpost.php?p=150619&postcount=25


And I didn't think anyone would get it.

[smilie=party2.gif]

[smilie=locked.gif]

Need leadership?

Time to bring in Michael Curry.

OH MY GOD DID I JUST SAY THAT?

I'd settle for Kelvin Cato, who we let go for nada.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/486658p-409740c.html

“The previous two coaches here worked on it and I continue to work on it,” he said. “It’s kind of like a rock. In order to break it, you’ve got to keep hitting it and eventually it’s going to crack. Eventually, we’ll crack and understand there is no switch. We’re the second- or third-oldest team in the league. The league has changed. It’s a much more athletic, aggressive type league and you have to rely on your ability to go out and execute.

I think Flip is underestimating the strength of that rock. Humility is like virginity and the pistons' cherry got popped for good with the 04 championship. With guys who have won a championship and flipped the switch successfully so many times I don't know if you can ever turn the clock back to "Goin' to work!" and have them really buy into it.

It's fair to ask at this point what it will take for them to get hungry again. Dice is starvin marvin but that's about it.

The only guys who flipped the switch and won in 2004 are Sheed, Prince, Rip, Hunter and Billups.

Everyone else should be hungry fuckers.

If Billups, Rip and Prince aren't the problem then it's obvious who is.

It might be time to trade him afterall

Trade Lindsey? But who would want him?
J/K...

I thought the same thing P when Prince said me, RIP and Billups are trying to lead. I don't think it was coincidence that he left Sheed's name off that list. Plus Sheed talked about not being geared up until the playoffs.

I'm not sure trading him is the answer though. There is no deal that will get us fair return value, and certainly no deal that gets us a center as good as he is (when he plays hard). Trading Sheed would help long term if we get something for down the road, but ruins any chances at a title IMO. If you move Sheed for parts I think Billups sees we aren't in title mode anymore and bolts.

Now, if the deal gets us another all star caliber player then I would change my tune.

I'd settle for Kelvin Cato, who we let go for nada.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/486658p-409740c.html

Curry's had stretches like this before (like in 05). Not quite as high as this but then, when he was doing it in Chicago they had a better team (than the Knicks do now) and played a slower game. There's both the garbage team and Big Apple effects going on in this "look at how good Curry is now" thing.

As I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if Sheed not being named a captain before the year (and really wanting that responsibility) might be at the root of his issues right now.

Especially when he's the only remaining returning starter that is not a captain. That's the kind of thing that could make Sheed turn into "bad Sheed".

I'm sure he views it as disrespect or a slight, which could lead him to rebel (even more).

Well, I was referring more to Cato's veteran leadership and a good locker room presence. He seems like a grown-up who plays at a position we lost depth in, as opposed to Curry who's a retired grown-up at a position we have depth in. :)

As I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if Sheed not being named a captain before the year (and really wanting that responsibility) might be at the root of his issues right now.

Especially when he's the only remaining returning starter that is not a captain. That's the kind of thing that could make Sheed turn into "bad Sheed".

I'm sure he views it as disrespect or a slight, which could lead him to rebel (even more).

How many captains can you have? They have 3? It should just be RIP and CBill. They've been here the longest.

Uncle Mxy:

Yeah, my post probably should have gone in the News around the NBA thread.

How many captains can you have? They have 3? It should just be RIP and CBill. They've been here the longest.

I was thinking the exact same thing, why have 3 captains...no one has 3 captains!

They should have found out who the two biggest leaders on the team were (most likely Billups as the big talker and rip as the hard worker that ben used to be) and have just them. If I were Sheed and had shown I wanted to become a team leader then was the only guy from 4 remaining starters to not be a captain, I'd be insulted.

So first Tayshaun says:

"We've had a couple guys late to practice the past couple of weeks. Stuff going on in the locker room ... that's what's hurting us, more than anything," Prince said.
But now Tayshaun says:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070110/SPORTS0102/701100404/1127

"They asked me (Monday) what was wrong and I said, 'We need to get our chemistry tight, get our focus back,' " Prince said. "And then they go and tell Lindsey (Hunter), 'Tayshaun said the chemistry was bad in the locker room.' I wasn't talking about the locker room. I was talking about on the floor. I said when we get our chemistry right and our focus back, everything will be all good.
Is Tayshaun preparing for a career in politics?
This is a darn good flip-floppery.

I think basically he flip flopped because of the timing with Sheed being benched. He probably didn't think his comments would eventually be linked to Sheed, so he changed his tune. Oh well, we all know Sheed was floating a little so hopefully this sparks him a little.

I suspect Rasheed would like to get benched and play lazy 'till the playoffs. We'll see if Rasheed improves. He -was- gimping around, and it may make sense to limit his minutes. I was upset that he wasn't coming off the bench after he hurt himself in the playoffs last year, because (apart from one game) his O wasn't making up for his ankle-hindered D.

^the gimpiness sure didn't keep him from chucking up bad 3's

In his dreams, he'll make those in the playoffs when it matters, like Robert Horry.