No, Glenn, we need to stop giving away first rounders, IMO.

"Giving away"?

I think we might ask for something of value in return in most cases.

"Stop trading our first rounders?"

Why?

Do they get the chance to play here?

Do we do a good job of making those picks?

Do we have room for them on the roster?

Can/will we keep them if they break out?

How many young players are too many? (Max, Amir, Blalock, Acker, more?)

IMO, if you are a contender, using picks as trade pieces is how you win championships. If you are a bottom feeder, they are how you attempt to reload.

I subscribe to the school of thought that known>unknown in most cases, especially when you aren't rebuilding. Maybe I still feel burned by Darko?

Is it better to have a young stud for the first 3-4 years of their career or after that? Not talking about Darko specifically, but if I think if anyone here had the time to do the research we'd find that the majority of productive NBA players are not still playing for the team that drafted them.

We can spend 3-4 years developing young players, then IF they develop into something worthy, maybe they stay maybe they leave, or we can let them take their lumps on someone's team and acquire them after we see what they can do.

I'm not saying that you always trade all your picks, but in our current situation, I can't see adding two more guaranteed contracts to the mix right now, especially for guys that won't even be in the rotation.

Historically, trading the draft picks for known quantities was how good teams stayed good. But, I think the rookie minimum salaries have changed a lot of historical thinking.

It used to be that if they were coming out of college and they were good, you had to pay them serious bucks (at the time) right away. You had a choice of either paying for the known quantity, or paying for your draft pick (which in some cases, would cost more than the known quantity -- Big Dog got $100 million out of college).

Now, because of the relatively recent "rookie scale salary" stuff, the balance of money is different. You want as many picks as you can get away with and still field a reasonable team, so you can cycle rookies through and see who's worth keeping on the cheap. If you're lucky, maybe you can trade your way into the altitude of a college player you've been interested in who looks really promising, but mostly it's about gambling on cheap labor.

It's not an accident that you go to rookie scale salaries and see talented high schoolers get drafted. The CBA gives them an economic incentive to do so.

So if we assume (as many are) that Acker comes back next year to replace Flip Murray, then we'll have Max, Amir, Blalock and Acker on the roster.

That's nine roster positions taken if none of them start.

Dice will most likely exercise his $6.4m option because he probably won't find better elsewhere, so that's 10.

Lindsey, Delfino and Dupree all are signed as well, taking us to 13.

And we've got two firsts and at least one second for sure, and we might even have another second from the Minny/Dupree deal.

That's too many draft picks to add to this team, IMO, two of them with guaranteed deals.

Of course, the 2nds most likely either won't make the team at all or might be EuroStash's, and Lindsey could be bought out, but still...


EDIT- I think Dupe's got a player option next year, too, but that would actually make our bench even younger.

EDIT2- Has anyone else figured out why we needed to give Lindsey 2 years at $4.5m? I know he plans on joining the front office, but why give him the second guaranteed year?

Just dug this up about Dice's contract, was anyone else here aware of this stipulation or a 5th year?


http://www.n-c-systems.com/hoops/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=antonio+mcdyess&Team=&BeginYear=&BeginMonth=&BeginDay=&EndYear=&EndMonth=&EndDay=&submit=Search

07/14/04 Pistons, Antonio McDyess- signed to a 5-year, $29M contract (the fifth year is performance based - if McDyess plays 60 games or more, he gets the 5th year)

Does that mean that Dice is possibly signed through 2009?

1st year: 2004-2005
2nd year: 2005-2006
3rd year: 2006-2007
4th year: 2007-2008
5th year: 2008-2009

What do you think Dice will be worth the year after next? I could envision him ditching his player's option to take a $9-12 million 2-3 year contract. That's potentially more than he could make once his player's option expires.

This year the draft is "deep" and we have 4 picks, 2 Firsts and 2 Seconds.

The Minny Second will be between 35-48, right now it is 44. So we will end up with 3 Picks in the top 50, 3 in less than 20 spots of each.

Now for a team who is trying to stay at the top, and has an established core ( if Chauncey is re-signed the core right now is at 8, nine if Dice opts in or re-signs) there is no way rookies can devolp properly as Darko proved . That core number doesn't include Murray, Dupree, LH or Blaylock who all have either contracts with options or are signed through next season, and it doesn't include DD who is a FA. So my point is we have a lot guys in the mix already so no way do we keep all 4 picks or have 4 rookies on the roster next season.

Right now my best bet is Joe will trade the picks together to move up in the draft. That makes the most sense unless the trade deadline gives us a chance a Sheed-like trade.

My bottomline is first round picks are not valuable on top tier teams, because teams tend to draft to the future and tend to take bigger risks and look at prospects rather than the player that helps now.

So given the choice of getting a solid vet or drafting two rookies with upside out of the 07-08 window which may never be realized in a Pistons uni, I take the vet.

Well, with the NBDL we can always send the 2nd rounders there for a year. Plus, most 2nd round picks don't work out anyway...you just hope that a couple will become good bench players. I think we should keep them myself, because we don't know for sure Billups will be back, we don't know how long Dyess will hold up, we need to find a young center eventually.

The problem is that I think we have good young depth, we just can't afford to play them alot with a winning team.

I would only trade the picks if they are bringing us a stud that demands a trade (KG, Gasol, etc) which won't happen. I'm not interested in old vets because I think we have enough solid vets already.

BTW, I like the notion of packaging them together to move up. We don't need a lot of talent, just 1-2 very good players.

What do you think Dice will be worth the year after next? I could envision him ditching his player's option to take a $9-12 million 2-3 year contract. That's potentially more than he could make once his player's option expires.


If he gets the same 8.3% raise that he got this year, he'd be looking at nearly $7m for 2008-09. That makes his total option (with playing time incentives) worth nearly $13.5m for two seasons, he won't get that anywhere else IMO.

Well, with the NBDL we can always send the 2nd rounders there for a year. Plus, most 2nd round picks don't work out anyway...you just hope that a couple will become good bench players. I think we should keep them myself, because we don't know for sure Billups will be back, we don't know how long Dyess will hold up, we need to find a young center eventually.

The problem is that I think we have good young depth, we just can't afford to play them alot with a winning team.

I would only trade the picks if they are bringing us a stud that demands a trade (KG, Gasol, etc) which won't happen. I'm not interested in old vets because I think we have enough solid vets already.

NBDL guys still count against our roster. I agree we need to find a young C but those guys are at the top of the draft not where we are picking. So packaging the Picks to go after the second or third best C after Oden is the way to go IMO, if a C is desired.

FYI

Patricia Bender's site doesn't mention the 5th year of Dice's deal, just the player option for year 4.

I wonder which site is correct?

EDIT- Storytellers mirrors the first site I posted with the 5th year at nearly $7m.

EDIT2- Another site that we used to post at claims that the Minny pick won't be conveyed until 2008, perhaps 2009.


Detroit Pistons
Credits

2007 first round draft pick from Orlando
Orlando’s own 2007 1st round pick to Detroit (top 5 protected in the 2007 Draft, and unprotected in the 2008 Draft). [Detroit – Orlando, 2/15/2006]

2008 second round draft pick from Minnesota
Minnesota’s own 2008 2nd round pick to Detroit, provided that Minnesota shall have the option to defer the conveyance by one year if it notifies the League Office 30 days prior to the 2008 Draft. If Minnesota elects to defer, then it shall trade its own 2009 2nd round pick to Detroit [Detroit – Minnesota, 10/31/2005]

NBAdraft.net says 07, so who knows.


Detroit receives Minnesota's 2007 second round pick (Ronald Durpee trade 062805)

the idea of packaging picks to move up in the draft sounds great. but unlike the nfl draft, this is much more difficult to pull off.

furthermore, given the fact that this draft is likely to be stocked with some top flight talent, it is unlikely (IMO) that teams holding top 10-15 picks will be willing to move down- even for a nice package of picks.

but you never know. we should not forget that it is also possible to package some of our players, ie CONTRACTS, we have on the roster in order to make more room. we don't have THAT many tradeable assets but it could be done.

so when we're looking at who will be under contract and on the roster for next year, just because they're under contract does not mean they have to be here. we have options to move them in a 2 for 1 deal, or something like that.

I doubt many higher picks are moving this year, too much value.

However, I think we should try to open up some roster spots, because out of 15 - 2 2nds, 2 1sts, and the MLE should be added(though Jewy McGee might not want to spend the MLE). So that's 5 out of 15, and we have more than 10 guys returning.

Flip and Dyess for a PG and a pick(Knight, Watson, etc.)?
Flip and Fino for Wells(Flip for Wells was 'rumored', but this would make(a little) more sense.
Nazr for a box of rocks.
Something for a SG/SF from Atlanta(Childress probably).

Draft a big, a wing, and 2 projects. (Sean Williams, Brandon Rush?; Afrikan and African?)

i've done a little research, and right now we'd be getting pick #20 and pick #25. however, i suspect that both those picks could become slightly better, such as maybe pick #17 and pick #23. thats realistic.

i think its pretty clear we need quality over quantity. so trading up makes sense. but im not sure any team really stands out as a team that would really want to... of course once teams start targetting guys this changes.

typically, i'd say 17 and 23 could net you a 10-13 pick... i'd do that trade.

typically, i'd say 17 and 23 could net you a 10-13 pick... i'd do that trade.

I don't think I would. Given Joe's history with a lottery picks and with early 20s picks. Obviously I'd rather have a higher pick, but I wouldn't give up 2-for-1 unless it was for a top-5 pick.

This isn't like the NFL draft where teams trade down for multiple picks. 2nd rounders are given away for cash. Pistons should draft 3 players, then we have a better shot that one of them will pan out. If one player out of 3 makes a contribution to the team, it was a succesful draft.

to put some perspective, in 2001 jersey traded #7 for # 13, 18, and 23. so hoping for 5 or better is probably overly optamistic.

This isn't like the NFL draft where teams trade down for multiple picks. 2nd rounders are given away for cash. Pistons should draft 3 players, then we have a better shot that one of them will pan out. If one player out of 3 makes a contribution to the team, it was a succesful draft.

thats not really true, and especially this year. 2nd rounders are typically longshots to make it, and europeans / highschoolers are more of a risk/reward type deal, but typically a first rounder is expected to produce... especially with the age minimums.

to put some perspective, in 2001 jersey traded #7 for # 13, 18, and 23. so hoping for 5 or better is probably overly optamistic.

Well, I didn't say it was likely... That's just what it would take to make me pull the trigger.

I wonder what the success rates are for players picked in the 10-14 range? My guess is that it's not twice as high as an early 20s pick.

Since we already have youngsters in Blaylock, Maxiell, Delfino and Amir Johnson, we don't need 4 picks. I'd say that we trade our 2nds for future picks or combine one or both of them plus one of our firsts to try to move up a couple of spots. Other wise I see both of our 2nds being used on project players who will never get any PT.

or will never make the team. you can only have so many project players around taking up roster spots. someone's got to actually be playing.

or will never make the team. you can only have so many project players around taking up roster spots. someone's got to actually be playing.

Exactly my point. If I were a rookie coming to the Pistons I would be dreading it!!!!!!!!!! NO PT!!!!!!

The team next season will look something like this (barring a trade between now and the day after the Draft)

Nazr, Sheed, Prince, Rip, Billups
Dice, Maxiell, Dupree, Delfino, Hunter, Amir, Blalock

That's 12 guys. Davis is gone, likely retired. Murray is gone.

Throw in the 2 first rounders and we've got 14 players on the books.

Either bring back Acker for the final spot or our second rounder can have that spot (assuming the Minny 2nd isn't conveyed until 2008)

That's a nice mix of old/young, especially with Max, Delfino, Amir and Blalock looking to play a much larger role next season.

And consider that Hunter and Dupree are not going to be (or shouldn't be) much of a factor in the regular season and we have plenty of minutes available for young players next season.

I was kind of hoping Hunter would retire and take a front office job with Dumars next season.

I know hes probably not ready but there is Samb who is oversees right now.

Hopefully hes eaten

Hopefully we can grab another guy like that in the second round, someone with a lot of potential that can stay overseas for a year or two. Then we can still use our second rounder and we don't have to worry about him taking up a roster spot. Something like Okur did, then he came over, got playing time and turned out to be a pretty good player.

i just looked at nbadraft.net. right now we have picks 19 and 22... my forecast for 17 and 23 still seems reasonable.

nbadraft has us taking nick young and josh mcroberts.

mcroberts intrigues me, and if both picks make the roster next year, one better be a big. i dont know this nick young, but right now they have alondo tucker going #25. i'd have to think if tucker is on the board when we're picking, we wouldnt really have a choice. he would be perfect for this team. plus, then we could tar and feather delfino.

Does anyone know the details behind Minnesota's 2007 2nd round pick? Everywhere I see has Golden State having the rights to it?

i just looked at nbadraft.net. right now we have picks 19 and 22... my forecast for 17 and 23 still seems reasonable.

nbadraft has us taking nick young and josh mcroberts.

mcroberts intrigues me, and if both picks make the roster next year, one better be a big. i dont know this nick young, but right now they have alondo tucker going #25. i'd have to think if tucker is on the board when we're picking, we wouldnt really have a choice. he would be perfect for this team. plus, then we could tar and feather delfino.

I'm really hoping a Shot-blocking/rebounding Center and an NBA-Ready PG fall to us. Then we'd have a nice young bench core...

PG- Pick (Blalock)
SG- Delfino (Acker?)
SF- Delfino (Amir)
PF- Maxiell (Amir)
C- Pick (Samb?)

Throw in Dice, and add a veteran shooter SF and we'd be set.

Nice research done by Glenn on this thread... the extra year for Dice is certainly dissapointing. I was hoping for a nice deal for his expiring this summer.

What we do with the two picks really depends on the financial position of the team for next year.... If we assume the lux threshold to be close to what it is this year we would have roughly 14M in team salary available (assuming Chauncey opts out).... if we make another assumption that CB will re-sign for 10-12M next year that only leaves apprx 2M available... this is without Acker or Amir in the fold.... so it's likely that we could not take on larger salaries for draft picks & D.D.'s exp contract.
We could take on a player that was in his 2nd or 3rd year of his rookie contract that was a #18 or higher pick (rookie scale).... we wouldn't have to worry about having to resign him next year for a larger amount.

I'm less concerned about the rookie pulling splinters out of his ass his first year because of the D-league... BTW, what is taking so damn long getting our own dedicated D-team???

One thing we can be sure of is that there would be major roster changes if we don't come out of the East this year... you don't keep swimming in circles with the same guys that didn't get it done... especially when some of the key pieces are on the decline.

^i wouldn't be worried about Acker. Blaylock has shown more to me as a PG than Acker, so I think Acker is pretty much done here. Scorers are the easiest thing to find too.

If they're so easy to find, why don't we have a scorer off the bench?

^i wouldn't be worried about Acker. Blaylock has shown more to me as a PG than Acker, so I think Acker is pretty much done here. Scorers are the easiest thing to find too.
Blalock = PG
Acker = SG
Dumars went over that towards the end of last year. We were pushing Acker into the PG role but that's not what he was and that's not what they were going to make him be.

Yeah, but Acker shoots worse than Delfino, is shorter and doesn't play defense either. That's why I mentioned scorers are the easiest thing to find. You can sign a vet SG to play off the bench if you really need one. I hope Acker pans out, but I have never been impressed enough to count on him in the future.

Thought that this should belong here.

Looks like we will keep amir acker and Samb.

Sambs injured however.


Q. What is Amir Johnson's contract situation after this season? Are the Pistons at risk to lose him to another team?

A. Johnson, even though he was a second-round pick, will be a restricted free agent after July 1. The Pistons still have his Bird rights, so they can do what they have to do, regardless of salary cap limitations, to re-sign him.

Pistons president Joe Dumars has said, repeatedly, that Johnson is a vital piece of the future and plans on keeping him. Most likely, Dumars will have to make a three-year commitment to Johnson.

Q. When did Johnson become such a hot property?

A. Any 19-year-old kid who is 6-foot-11 1/2 and can do all the things athletically than Johnson can do is a hot property. Johnson's latest stint in the NBDL coincided with the league's showcase tournament. Scouts and general managers from all 30 teams watched games over a two-week period and Johnson was a standout.

Dumars and his scouting staff have been taking a lot of calls from teams wondering if Johnson was available. Dumars assured them he was not. As director of scouting George David said, Johnson might be the only untouchable in the league who is not on an active roster.

Johnson hasn't fully developed his jump shot, and he still needs work on his ball-handling, but he is quick and long, has pogo-stick leaping ability and is a strong finisher around the basket.

Q. So, when does he break into the rotation?

A. I believe it will be next season. There is no guarantee Chris Webber will re-sign with the Pistons (though the Pistons will strongly pursue that). This is likely Dale Davis' last season here. Antonio McDyess has one more year (his option) on his contract. Rasheed Wallace has two years left.

Given that, the Pistons would not be looking to move Nazr Mohammed if they didn't think Johnson was going to be ready to step in. And they are looking to move Mohammed.

Q. Reports out of Charlotte say the Pistons are interested in point guard Brevin Knight. True?

A. The Pistons have long had interest in Knight, going back to last season. But there haven't been any new talks.

The 5-10 Knight makes $4.4 million this season and has a team option for $4.2 million next season. The Pistons, in the past, had talked about dealing Davis ($3.5 million) and Flip Murray ($1.7 million) to the Bobcats.

But the Pistons aren't actively shopping Davis anymore. Their priority right now seems to be moving Mohammed, who has five years and $25 million left on his contract. The Bobcats aren't likely to be interested in taking on that much money.

The Bobcats might take Murray and one of the Pistons' two first-round picks, but Dumars is loathe to move either of those picks.

Q. What's going on with Pistons draft picks Cheick Samb and Alex Acker?

A. Samb, the second-round pick from Senegal whom the Pistons acquired for Maurice Evans, is playing for Barcelona in a second tier Euroleague in Spain. The Pistons were excited about his early progress before he was felled with a stress fracture in his foot.

"Cheick has been hurt, which for us is useful in the fact that he's already gained 23 pounds of muscle and he looks great without losing any quickness," said Tony Ronzone, international scout and director of basketball operations for the Pistons. "He practices with the Barcelona team and he also plays and practices with a (junior) team in Cornella. He is definitely improving and we are very excited about his future."
The Pistons don't expect Samb to be ready for at least another year, probably two.

As for Acker, he could be back on the roster next season. They still essentially own his rights, similar to Johnson's situation, and he has been a standout in the top tier Euroleague. He still leads his Olympiacos team in scoring (19.8 points) and rebounds (8.9).

A couple other former Pistons are playing in the Euroleague: Horace Jenkins is averaging 13.8 points for Efes Pilsen and Tony Delk is scoring 10.8 a game for Panathinaikos.

Tony Delk is scoring 10.8 a game for Panathinaikos.


:yingyang:

The 9 rebounds for Acker is encouraging. As long as he develops into a well rounded SG he has a chance. He definately isn't a PG, but he has enough size to be a backup SG in the NBA.

How tightly do you think Joe is holding onto these two 1sts at the trade deadline?

How do we make room for more youngsters if we keep both picks? (the one or two 2nds that we have, depending if you think we are getting the Minny pick this year or not, will most likely be EuroStashes IMO).

Buying out Lindsey could free up a spot for a rookie, but as I said earlier in this thread, if Acker is coming back there goes that spot right there.

That's the thing I'm worried about. AT LEAST two firsts and a second. If we stash the second rounder in Europe, that's still 2 spots we have to clear, and I'm assuming we'll actually give the young guys some playing time for once even if that's a huge assumption. What do we have to hope for to clear up spots?
Hunter could retire.
Dale is doubtful to be back.
FlipM should be gone.
Maybe we make a two-for-one trade with FlipM and Nazr, but Flip will be gone next year anyway and that wouldn't give us any more room.
There's the possibility that Webber doesn't resign. I love having him here and I'd love to see him resign on a 1, maybe 2, year deal, but nothing further than that.
There's the possibility that McDyess doesn't stay here, same with Chauncy, but I don't think either of them are leaving.
We could not resign Dupree, but I love having him around even if he doesn't get any PT. He's a hard worker and seems like he's a good chemistry guy.

Then there's the issue of giving the new guys playing time:
If we trade for a backup PG with more than a year left on his deal (like Mike James) then we won't have anywhere for a rookie PG to play
I don't think a rookie SG will jump Delfino, though a shooter at SG or SF could be put on the floor with him to even it out, since we know how much FlipS likes to put the whole bench out there at once. If we bring Acker back, this could be him.
Rookie big men? Good luck. Assuming things go as planned, we have Sheed, Webber, McDyess as the mainstays with Max and Amir fighting for PT. It would have to be some 7' true center if he wants any chance to get on the court.

if we trade nazr for james, we have:

c: ?
pf: sheed / mcdyess / maxiell / amir
sf: tay
sg: rip / delfino
pg: james / hunter /blaylock

i THINK we'd like to bring chancy and webber back. im pretty sure murray and davis would like to tell us to go to hell. i also think webber is pretty likely to bolt to la. so without question, we need a big man via the draft. the other pick should be used on alondo tucker. that would rely on a mixture of amir, maxiel, tucker, and delfino to beable to backup tay. i wouldnt be too worried.

next year we pretty much wont have a choice but to finally give some of our young talent pt. and assuming joe doesnt screw up the draft, i think our young talent should be intriguing, if nothing else.

Digger Phelps just said he'd take Acie Law over Durant as the Big-12 player of the year. Says he's just a great point guard that can lead a team. Sound like someone we should take with the Orlando pick? That's what NBADraft.net had us doing until a day ago whe they changed it to Josh McRoberts, PF from Duke, with Law going 2 picks later.

Also, they have us taking a PF with both picks even though we have Sheed, McDyess, Max, and Amir all at PF. Do they look at team needs when they do this? If they had us taking a C I'd be fine with that but 2 PF's? Not gonna happen.

. Do they look at team needs when they do this?

No, not at all. They tell you where your team is drafting if the season ended, and their presumed draft order, totally seperate from one-another.

Taking a PF would be completely stupid. That is the position of least need. I like Law there though.

I am 100% positive that we are going to look at Law as one of our top prospects at that draft position, for two reasons. It will give us a great backup to Chauncey, AND insurance. In fact, I would almost guarantee us taking a PG with the pick. The first round likely won't have too many PGs taken, so I think this will represent our best chance to get one. If Chauncey reups before the draft, then maybe we look elsewhere, but even then I just don't see it. We have ignored that position too much in the first round lately. I say we take Law, and give him a few seasons to play with Chauncey as his backup. Hopefully it ends up like a Steve Nash backing up Jason Kidd kind of scenario.

I agree. You can find a FA swingman to back up Tay (Mo Pete, Bonzi, etc). They are there every year. PG's are harder to find.

NBA Comparison: Chauncey Billups
Strengths: Big time competitor who wants the ball in crunchtime … Has become a great team leader who has learned how to lead by example … Rare point guard who can operate equally well in a half court set or up tempo offense … Defensively Law shows good lateral quickness and reflexes to play passing lanes … Decent court vision, capable of driving and dishing in traffic … Great ball handler who uses his shifty quickness to get past most opposing defenders … Once in the lane, Law effectively uses his body control and ability to finish with both hands … Fundamentally sound player who plays the game with good poise and patience, rarely does Law force the action … Has the ability to hit the pull up J from mid-range off the dribble … Creative slasher who understands how to use the glass or floaters in the lane … Has improved greatly from behind the three point line where he can now convert with regularity … Unselfish player who will often look to get teammates involved first before attempting to shoot the ball … Possesses a great basketball IQ. Law plays the game very efficient and intelligently … Pushes the ball aggressively and effectively up the court …

Weaknesses: Still learning how to play the point guard position from the stand point of improving his teammates and controlling the tempo of games … Could stand to increase his upper body strength and add a few pounds to his frame … Perimeter shooting despite improvement can still go through streakiness … Settles at times for mid-range shots when he could drive to the basket and put pressure on the defense … Lacks the explosive first step to get full separation from his defender … Doesn’t always apply the same intensity on defense that he shows on offense … Can be a little turnover prone as he can telegraph his passes … Still remains to be seen if he is able to make players around him better … The mechanics in his shooting form are flawed and could need to be refined if he struggles in the NBA … Lack of strength prevents him from finishing after contact ... Defensively Law tends to gamble reaching for the ball and picks up quick fouls … While greatly improved, Law can go through periods where his overall play is inconsistent …

acie law via nbadraft.

I think nbadraft.net and most mock drafts go by talent, not team needs.

I'm all for Acie Law. However, I have a feeling as time goes on, he's going to move up the draft rankings and someone is going to grab him before we get a chance to.

Already he's the only guard projected in the Top 15 picks on draftexpress, going to Golden State. Would love to get him, Orlando's just gotta suck s'more.

Right now on DraftExpress, we're projected to take Marcus Williams, who sounds pretty good too, at least on their profile. He's a SG/SF

My dream draft is Acie Law and Alando Tucker.

And one more prediction. Flip Murray will not opt out. If I'm his agent, I tell him to take the guaranteed money.

I think that Flip will opt out. He should be able to get what he's making here with another team or more in Europe. Either way he knows that he isn't going to get any pt here so I can't see him staying.

I agree, if there is no decent bigman available who could play center for us, Law would be a very nice pick...can't even remember Joe drafting a good guard( Delfino is more of a wingplayer) Mateen was the only guard Joe D draftet right? i am afraid Joe D will waste the pick on some big stiff who needs ages to develop into sth useful...

Most of our guards have been 2nd round fliers. melvin levitt (year before dumars), acker, paulding, blaylock. None of those were high picks expected to work out. Every first rounder (besides Cleaves) has been spent on a forward (if you count Darko as a PF, and Delfino as a SF).

Looks like, for now at least, that Dice isn't planning on opting out.

:lathamjahnke:


This summer, McDyess can opt out of the final year of his contract, which would pay him about $6.3 million. Many players opt out because it's a chance to get more money or a longer deal.

McDyess, 32, said he's not interested.

"As of now," McDyess said, "I don't see any point right now. It never crosses my mind. ... I just look forward to what will happen this year, and, hopefully, get a ring.

"All I want is a championship," he said.

Blakely


And on a side note, I had a chance to talk with Tony Ronzone, who is in charge of Detroit's international scouting. Remember Alex Acker, their end-of-the-draft pick in 2005?

Apparently, he is really making a name for himself in Europe, to the point where it's almost a given that he'll be on the Pistons roster next season. If that happens, look for the Pistons to do all they can to trade Flip Murray. With Murray going into the final year of his deal next fall, the Pistons shouldn't have much of a problem dealing him now. If that doesn't work out, they may give some thought to waiving him. Anyway, back to Acker ...

Tony was telling me that Alex is playing primarily at the 2-guard spot, which is a position he's better suited for. A big reason for his struggles in Detroit as a rookie, was that he had to play the point and that's just not his game, at this level.

Along with Detroit probably bringing Acker back, remember they also have their first and second-round picks in June's draft, in addition a top-five protected pick from Orlando that's looking better and better each day. They may also get a second round pick from Minnesota as part of the Ronald Dupree trade last year, although I suspect the T-Wolves will hold on to that pick, and give Detroit their 2008 or 2009 second-round pick.

Regardless, the Pistons are definitely looking to get younger through this draft which is considered as deep - or even deeper - than the 2003 class led by LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Carmelo Anthony.

They need to add that backup PG even more now. Playing Flip and Acker out of position just isn't working. I think we need a PG with orlando's pick, and a backup SF with ours.

Just heard CWebb on the Dan Patrick radio show.

Interesting interview, highlighted mostly by his comment about his future, "I can't see myself being anything but a Piston ever again."

Assuming by that comment that he wants to be back, do we want him back?

For how much? Do we blow our MLE on him?

And how long? 1 year? 2 years?

The money only matters if Davidson doesn't pay the tax. If he doesn't (we have to assume he won't since he never does), then we'd probably have to move Nazr to clear some money out (even though we can use the MLE on Webber). I'd like to split it between him and a SF like Mo Pete if we can. It all depends on the draft though.

Just heard CWebb on the Dan Patrick radio show.

Interesting interview, highlighted mostly by his comment about his future, "I can't see myself being anything but a Piston ever again."

That's both clever and diplomatic. All it tells us is that he is not looking to go elsewhere. It leaves the doors open for coming back next season and for retirement.

I know how much everyone talks about Webb retiring and all, but he doesn't need to. He can play another season with the body he has now, and do just fine. It only makes a difference if he wants a lot of money.

:mccosky:


Dale Davis surprised me when he said Monday that he would definitely look to play somewhere next season. He had been talking up his retirement. But, the truth is, he still has some value and will command another two-year deal. He said he wouldn't rule out coming back to the Pistons, but it sounded like he wanted to go some where he could play. He's not coming back to be the 12th man again.

Flip Murray also said he would be back. He said he was planning on exercising his player option ($1.89 million). I think he could wind up in a trade package, though.

Brace yourselves, this could be a crazy summer. Some beloved players might be moved out (Rasheed Wallace being the most likely candidate).

I can't see DD coming back unless both Sheed and Webber are gone (which is higly possible). He might agree to help bridge the gap for Amir and a possible drafted Center. My guess is he'd rather be a backup on a championship caliber team, which we would not be unless we get something good for Sheed.

Does anybody know the deadline for Dice to decide if he's going to exercise his option or not?

Oh yeah, Dupree too ($826K), it's already been reported that Flip Murray was picking his up ($1.9m)

Here's what Canadians are saying: http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/columnists/scott_cullen/?ID=211799&hubname=fantasy_news

I stopped reading those wacky Canadians with:


Nazr Mohammed was a bust as a free agent signing, putting up his lowest numbers since 2002-2003 and forcing Detroit to bring in Chris Webber as a replacement. He's still a big man with soft hands, though, so he could draw some interest if the Pistons try to move him this summer.

Yup, soft hands. He's not as bad as the Blount instrument, but sheesh...

he forgot to mention that he's ben wallace + free throws.

he also forgot to be each sentence with terms such as "like i've said 100 times", "this is the last time i will tell you all this", "i know more than anyone else", etc.

:mccosky:


Flip Murray did pick up his option, but there is still a pretty good chance that he will be traded before the season starts. If the Pistons are serious about bringing back Alex Acker and signing Grant Hill, I can't see Murray still being here next season.

:mccosky:


Hunter gone?

It seems almost inevitable now that Lindsey Hunter's playing career is over. Nothing has been announced, and things could change, but with Rodney Stuckey and Arron Afflalo coming in -- Stuckey an offensive point guard and Afflalo a sticky perimeter defender -- the writing is on the wall for Hunter. He has one year left on his contract, but my guess he will begin his front office career in some capacity.

Flip Murray's days are probably numbered, too. The Pistons are expecting Stuckey to be the first guard off the bench next season. Alex Acker, by all accounts, is going to have a chance to make the team next year, as well. So, it's not a matter of if Murray's getting traded, it's when.

Stuckey and Afflalo will be introduced formally Friday.

CONTRACTS: Forward Ronald Dupree picked up his player option and will return for the 2007-08 season. The Pistons did not pick up the team option on guard Will Blalock, meaning he will become an unrestricted free agent



HUNTER'S NEW ROLE: Although there's no official word, the Pistons have a good idea how they will handle point guard Lindsey Hunter's future role with the influx of guards.

A team source said he will remain on the roster but act as a player-coach. That allows him to keep his paycheck, transition slowly into his post-playing career and be a veteran locker-room presence for the new talent pool.

Hoepfully the player coach doesn't play more than the players.

:mccosky:


Who's at center?

The answer to that right now is -- well, Nazr Mohammed.

Although there is still a good chance Mohammed will be traded, he is the only center on the roster at present, and may well be the fall-back plan when everything shakes out.

Webber, by all accounts, won't be returning to the Pistons. Nor will Dale Davis. Both are unrestricted free agents.

So, right now, there seems to be a hole in the middle and not many obvious prospects to fill it. The Pistons certainly aren't likely to find their next center on the free-agent market. Here are the names -- Darko Milicic, Mikki Moore, Frabricio Oberto, Jamaal Magloire, Chris Mihm, Calvin Booth.

Anybody jump out at you (save the Darko jokes)? Didn't think so.

Most likely, the Pistons will have to trade for their next center. Washington is shopping either Etan Thomas or Brendan Haywood, but neither would provide a significant upgrade. The Nuggets were trying to move either Nene or Marcus Camby at various times, but they aren't likely to take on a package of Pistons outcasts.

This is going to be a tough fix. There are no easy or obvious answers. This might be a good time to remind everyone that the Pistons were 16-6 at one point last season with Mohammed starting alongside Rasheed Wallace.

They began to plummet when Wallace got hurt and Antonio McDyess slumped.

Nobody wants to hear this, but Mohammed may end up being the Pistons' best option.

So long, Will

Will Blalock, we hardly knew you.

If the Pistons drafting three guards last Thursday wasn't a clear indication that Will Blalock's days were numbered, then Arron Afflalo showing up wearing Blalock's jersey No. 8 certainly was.

The Pistons did not pick up their option on Blalock, leaving the point guard free to latch on with another team either here or abroad. Most likely, Blalock is going to have to battle his way back through the European circuit. He has to prove to NBA teams that he can stick an open 15-foot jump shot.

The way the backcourt depth chart looks now, Billups and Rodney Stuckey are the point guards, Richard Hamilton and Afflalo are the shooting guards. Lindsey Hunter is expected to see limited duty as a backup to both positions, and Flip Murray is expected to be shipped out.

The Pistons could also bring in Acker, their former draft pick who played last season in Greece.

The Pistons announced today they have signed guards Rodney Stuckey and Arron Afflalo, both chosen in the first round of the recent NBA draft.

:langlois:


Next on Dumars’ list of priorities, as he enumerated when the regular season ended, will be to sign restricted free agent Amir Johnson. If Johnson is re-signed on Wednesday, it’s still possible he could join the team in time for the remainder of their Las Vegas Summer League schedule. The Pistons will play Washington on Wednesday in the third of their five scheduled games.

Once Johnson is accommodated, Dumars can begin to look at the rest of the items on his agenda, which includes sorting out the frontcourt and easing the backcourt logjam created by the drafting of Rodney Stuckey, Arron Afflalo and Sammy Mejia.

While Chris Webber mulls his future, Dumars must consider what his value might be for an organization committed to finding playing time for Johnson and Jason Maxiell in addition to mainstays Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess. It might come down to this: If Dumars can’t find a trade market for Nazr Mohammed, he might decide to pass on re-signing Webber.

A contract extension for McDyess is also on the docket as is a decision on whether a roster spot is available for 7-footer Cheick Samb, whose Vegas performances have been a mixed bag – the occasional spectacular block or eye-opening perimeter jumper interspersed with moments that remind observers he just started playing the sport four years ago.

At guard, Dumars probably will explore the trade market for Flip Murray once the dust settles on free agency and teams have a better gauge on what they can expect from draft choices after seeing them in summer play. All indications are that Lindsey Hunter intends to play another year, though the Pistons could also include Hunter in a trade to make contracts work under the salary cap if the situation calls for it.

With Grant Hill expected to sign on Wednesday with Phoenix, it now appears likely the Pistons will not use their mid-level exception on a free agent. Dumars said Wednesday that he’s comfortable going into the season with some combination of Afflalo, Mejia and veteran Ronald Dupree backing up Tayshaun Prince at small forward.

Ronald Dupree backing up Tayshaun Prince at small forward.

**insert puking emoticon here**

: )>#@$%^$#%^$%^$#^

Tayshaun Prince was not available for comment, though multiple team sources say that his hemorrhoids are blossoming at the right time owing to this situation.

Dumars said Wednesday that he’s comfortable going into the season with some combination of Afflalo, Mejia and veteran Ronald Dupree backing up Tayshaun Prince at small forward.

Dumars said this after leaving a meeting with team owner Bill Davidson, who emerged with a "$#@! the Luxury Tax!" t-shirt under his familiar tan Member's Only® jacket.

Brad (Detroit): Is Amir Johnson worth $11M, he has only played in 11 games or so? Or is Joe thinking too big on this one?

Chris Sheridan: (12:23 PM ET ) Joe has to secure a few guys for the future for that franchise, and he told me right after the playoffs that re-signing Amir was going to be a big priority for him after getting the Billups deal out of the way. So now he's got two young bigs locked up for a while (don't forget Maxiell), and he's got Stuckey, who looked pretty good in Vegas, he's got affalo (who didn;t look as good as Stuckey), and he's still got the rights to Acker, who's productive in Europe. So that's a pretty nice core for when the team eventually transforms out of its current veteran state a couple years or so down the road.

And it's not like Tay and RIP will be over the hill in a couple years either.

:mccosky:


A Cheikh is a Cheick

OK, for two years now it's been Cheikh Samb. Now that he's put his legal signature on an NBA contract, it's Cheick Samb. Either way, it's all Chick to me (which is the Americanized pronunciation).

The Pistons obviously felt that a year in the D-League would be more beneficial to the skinny Samb than another year toggeling between the A and B teams in Barcelona -- which is probably true. That's why they gave him one of their 15 roster spots, even though there is no earthly way he will contribute on the NBA level for probably two more seasons.

The Pistons also felt it was beneficial financially to pay him about $900,000 for two years as opposed to paying at least that, plus probably another $500,000 to buy him out of whatever Euroleague contract he would have signed.

From an organization standpoint, the move was a no-brainer. The coaching staff, however, probably isn't doing cartwheels. Don't misunderstand, Flip Saunders and company are on board with Samb's growth potential. They are just as intrigued as Joe Dumars over what this guy might someday be. But Saunders is paid to win next season. His future with the Pistons rather depends on it. If the Pistons don't make another long playoff run next season, Saunders might not be around when Samb is ready to contribute. Already, he has had roster spots taken up by developing players who weren't ready to contribute at the NBA level (Will Blalock and Amir Johnson last year, Alex Acker, Carlos Delfino and Johnson the year before). This year, Saunders could be grooming four rookies (Stuckey, Afflalo, Samb and perhaps Sammy Mejia), as well trying to find playing time for 20-year-old Johnson.

While the coaches understand the need to keep developing young blood, you can understand how they might prefer to use those 14th and 15th roster spots on veterans who could at least be used in a pinch.

It does appear that the Pistons will not bring Acker back. He could be invited to training camp, but they seemed pretty encouraged by the talent and maturity shown by Stuckey and Afflalo in Vegas.

Anyway, the roster is by no means set. Dumars said there was a good chance that he might not use the mid-level exception this season, but that could change if the right player availed himself. Although there are 14 guaranteed contracts on the roster right now, several of those could be moved without much financial pain -- Ronald Dupree, Flip Murray and Lindsey Hunter, to name three. Dumars will also continue to explore trades. There is a wide time frame on this. It's not like he has until the end of September to set his roster. Technically, he has until mid-February (the 2007-2008 trade deadline) to tweak or revamp the roster.

That said, if the season started tomorrow, the Pistons starting lineup would probably look like this: C Rasheed Wallace; PF Jason Maxiell; SF Tayshaun Prince; SG Rip Hamilton; PG Chauncey Billups. Key reserves -- Antonio McDyess, Nazr Mohammed, Rodney Stuckey and Arron Afflalo. Situational reserves -- Murray, Hunter, Johnson, Dupree.

So many signs that $ is driving almost every decision, not winning.

We don't want to become the Knicks Glenn. Which is exactly what happens to your pumpkin the minute it crosses the midnight that is the lux tax.

We don't want to become the Knicks Glenn. Which is exactly what happens to your pumpkin the minute it crosses the midnight that is the lux tax.

I want to kill someone.

(Not you, Herm, that was tragically beautiful.)

Blakely


Cheick Samb in the fold

Posted by A. Sherrod Blakely July 17, 2007 11:47AM

The signing of Cheick Samb was expected after a decent showing in Las Vegas, and the fact that Detroit has a noticeable void in the middle. There's just one problem -- Samb doesn't address the team's void in the middle.

He is a player that the Pistons have no plans on using much, if at all, this season. He is a big man who runs the floor well and shows promise that, someday, he'll be a decent NBA player.

But don't expect that day to be anytime during the 2007-2008 season. Because most of his time will be spent in Ft. Wayne, Ind. with Detroit's D-League affiliate.

Barring a major move (which seems unlikely before the start of the season), Detroit will open with Nazr Mohammed as the starting center. The Pistons may still have some interest in bringing C-Webb back, but he's clearly looking at all his options which includes, but is not limited to, returning to Detroit.

The guy who is probably affected most by this signing is Sammy Mejia, the second-round pick last month who was one of Detroit's top players in summer league play. Adding Samb will give Detroit three rookies (Rodney Stuckey, Arron Afflalo and Samb) this season. Adding a fourth youngster, which would give them 15 guaranteed contracts, seems unlikely.

:lathamjahnke:


The two second-round picks -- one from 2006 and one from 2007 -- also helped their causes in summer camp. Center Cheick Samb, chosen last year, developed his strength enough to earn a spot on the roster, as the Pistons signed him to a two-year contract Monday.

Samb averaged seven points, 5.4 rebounds and 57.7% shooting, and he did so without being in great basketball shape. He spent at least a few weeks off the court with a stress fracture before coming to Detroit a week early to work with the Pistons' training staff.

He also suffered a hyperextension of his left hand the second day of practice.

"We were proud of him that he played through it," Hammond said.

They were most impressed with his ability to rebound, despite his thin frame. Samb is listed at 7-feet-1, 195 pounds.

"He showed he can rebound in traffic," Hammond said. "For a guy his size, with his body, to rebound in traffic with that lack of strength, that really impressed me."

No decision has been made on Sammy Mejia, this summer's second-round pick, but the most likely scenario is that he will get a partially guaranteed contract. The Pistons then have until mid-January to commit to him for a full season.

Mejia averaged 9.4 points, 6.2 rebounds and 40% shooting in 30 minutes per game in Las Vegas.

"He has good basketball savvy," Hammond said. "He can make the open shot. The thing that impressed me is he led the team in rebounding."

Meija just seems like he deserves a shot, providing we can't get anything really good at the SF spot.

:mccosky:


The Pistons also signed second-round pick Sammy Mejia. The small forward from DePaul signed a one-year, partially-guaranteed contract. The first year is guaranteed at the league minimum ($427,163), but is not guaranteed past Jan. 10.

:mccosky:
I like that deal. Give him a shot and we can cut him if he doesn't pan out without worrying about it affecting our payroll.

yeah i like the deal. but i still hope we're able to dump flip and/or nazr for another big man.

I still want to see the Nazr for Haywood trade go down. Even if we had to throw in Flip or a 2nd. I know its not much of an upgrade but Haywood is younger and needs a change of scenery.

With some influx of young talent, I can't wait for NBA 2K8 to come out. Get on with it already, late free agent signings be damned! I want me some Stuckey dropping 50 a night.

You know Samb and Meija won't show up in that game. Afflalo may not even show up. They do that all the time. I really wish they put all the picks and signings in the damn game. Maybe Amir will finally make it into the game this year. Fucking idiots.

you only get in the videogames once you've slept with stern. once you officially sign on to be one of his bitches, then they put you in the games.

I'm certainly not an expert, but I believe that a player needs to be a member of the player's association before their name/likeness can be used in video games.

Back in the day, if a draft pick was unsigned and the game needed to be finished, they would just use a jersey number instead of a name.

Not sure if that is still true.

I think you are correct. I remember players like Lavarr Arrington not having his name in there, Shaq not being in NBA Jam (for a different reason I think), etc.

Now, they just don't put them in there.

Amir wasn't in it the past two years. I wish they just would put everyone that's on the team on the fucking team, if it has to be through roster updates, I don't care. I hate creating players, I always make them too good.

Horace Grant was the big man for Orlando in NBA Jam IIRC. He was partnered with the current Bull's coach.

Wasn't Cunningham QB# something in Techmo Super Bowl? Jethro?

glenn, i think that's exactly what i said in the post just prior to yours. but thanks for putting it into a language everyone can understand.

HW, I see that...now.

I guess I didn't notice it at first since Stern doesn't run the player's association...or does he? lol

Now, they just don't put them in there.

Amir wasn't in it the past two years. I wish they just would put everyone that's on the team on the fucking team, if it has to be through roster updates, I don't care. I hate creating players, I always make them too good.
And in the NBA2K games if you create a player he has 0 potential. When you draft a guy it grades his potential, all the players already in the game have a level of potential (as they get better/worse with each season of experience) but you can make the youngest player possible and he will still never get better in the offseason like all the other young guys. I hate it.

nbapa is stern's bitch. has your boss ever been able to force you to have a dress code when you're LEAVING work......? stern is the pimp daddy and they're all his bitches.

lol

Now, they just don't put them in there.

Amir wasn't in it the past two years. I wish they just would put everyone that's on the team on the fucking team, if it has to be through roster updates, I don't care. I hate creating players, I always make them too good.

Amir is in NBA07 on PS3...so if you wanna run around with him thats the game to do it. Hes on the inactive roster so i always just unactivate DD before the games. Amirs actually suprisingly good by the way in the game. With Roster Updates and such they actually do a pretty good job of staying current.

http://www.eurobasket.com/ISR/ISR.asp


Will Blalock Signs with Hapoel Jerusalem

by Josh Halickman - Aug 1, 2007

Will Blalock (183-G-83, agency: Passing Lane, college: Iowa St.) signed with Hapoel Jerusalem after spending this past season with the NBA's Detroit Pistons. The 1.83m guard played in only 14 games for Detroit and played for the Denver Nuggets NBA Summer League team this past July scoring 10.5 pts and dishing out 3.5 assists per game.

And in the NBA2K games if you create a player he has 0 potential. When you draft a guy it grades his potential, all the players already in the game have a level of potential (as they get better/worse with each season of experience) but you can make the youngest player possible and he will still never get better in the offseason like all the other young guys. I hate it.

Not true anymore...

Last season I created Amir in 2k7 for the 360 and gave him 100 potential ad 90 dunks or something... lol.

But it was like that previously.

Still, I just wish they'd put everyone in the game.

Not true anymore...

Last season I created Amir in 2k7 for the 360 and gave him 100 potential ad 90 dunks or something... lol.

But it was like that previously.

Still, I just wish they'd put everyone in the game.
They have a column for potential now? Fucking FINALLY!!! I thought they'd have that from the start, as common sense. If all the players already in the game have potential, then why not let the created players have it as well?! I may actually get 2K8

I heard ASB say on 1270 that its unlikely the Pistons get C-Webb back for next season, now I know he's not very useful, but he's an upgrade over Nazr...even if its just off the bench, we don't have a backup center...

I'd be pretty upset w/ Joe D if the roster right now is what it will be in April...

bring back C-Webb, he's cheap, he can get you 10 pts, and teams still have to respect his offensive game...

I heard ASB say on 1270 that its unlikely the Pistons get C-Webb back for next season, now I know he's not very useful, but he's an upgrade over Nazr...even if its just off the bench, we don't have a backup center...

I'd be pretty upset w/ Joe D if the roster right now is what it will be in April...

bring back C-Webb, he's cheap, he can get you 10 pts, and teams still have to respect his offensive game...
The problem will be getting him to accept the diminished role. If he didn't mind being a role player and not starting then great, bring him on in, trade Flip for a 2nd rounder or something or have Hunter retire to make a roster spot.