I had to ask this question. Since Max is getting some playing time, he looks to be the real deal. Dice is still a good and capable back up plus we still have Amir waiting in the wings. Do we really need Sheed?? Moving him would open up playing time for Max and Amir who very well could be a big part of the teams future. I could see us without Sheed, Flip, and Nazr and it really gives us some pieces to trade with to get even better. I don't know if the Pistons would consider it but what do you think???

horrible idea...

Sheed gives us the verbal swagger. Losing Ben's attitude was ok, but both our presences down low and verbal leaders would kill us.

Ive havent liked most of the trade Sheed ideas. Very few players in the league as tall as him can step back and knock down 3s. Sure his shot isnt always on, but percentage-wise over the season it is... teams do have to honor it though and it opens up the paint for other players.

I see the logic in your idea, but I think Sheed's attitude and ability are X factors.

The way I look at it, is trading Sheed is a luxury so we must be able to get better by moving him. Based on the premise that Max and Dice are capable of handling the PF responsibilities and the 1-3 spots starting spots are locked up we would be trading for either back ups at 1-3, or a starting 5. Better depth is a solid enough plan but the question becomes what is enough and what is too much for Sheed? Second will a starter elsewhere or budding star who is already on the verge of starting be willing to come here to come off the bench? Or would Tay be willing to take a back seat?

If we are going for a Starting C ,which is our biggest weakness, what team would part with a front line C for Sheed?

I think trading Sheed at this point is premature, but not out of the question. It would come down to the offer for me.

The player becoming obsolete with the "ascension" of J-Max is Dice. Only problem is I don't think you could get much for him.

I agree that Dice is starting to look like the odd man out more and more.

He's apparently a classy guy, so if he accepts his reduced role there's no problem keeping him around. He can still play, his contract isn't horrible, and our only "need" is a #2 PG, but if Blalock can handle that then we really don't have any motivation to move Dice unless he's unhappy.

11 & 11 from Dice last night was nice too. There are so many benefits of getting these bench guys involved, it even helps motivate/energize the old guys.

Fellas, we do this every year for Dice. He is a notoriously slow starter. Last year we were saying he needs to go when he started off as slow as he did. By midseason he picked it up and was one of the only players playing well by the end of the season. Dice will be fine. Sheed will be fine. Max is only adding depth and energy off the bench.

Max's emergence just means that Sheed and Dice can rest more and be fresh for the playoffs... so this year there will be no excuse for being "worn out."

If we keep Sheed, Dice, and Max, what happens to Amir?? I could easily see him getting frustrated and becoming the next Darko.

^^I don't really see it. He was picked so late in the draft, he can't have those kinds of PT expectations at this point. Amir's just not ready to play yet, although it wouldn't hurt to get him 5 or so minutes a game to see what happens. Yeah, we said that with Darko, but you can't really compare this to Darko, because Amir wasn't our No. 2 pick.

If we keep Sheed, Dice, and Max, what happens to Amir?? I could easily see him getting frustrated and becoming the next Darko.

Amir is about 50 draft positions away from being the next Darko. No pressure, no expectations.

Amir is about 50 draft positions away from being the next Darko. No pressure, no expectations.

I'm not talking about pressure or expectations. I'm talking about the frustration of not getting any playing time. I know that he was a really late 2nd rd pick but he's a kid and who knows how he will handle sitting on the bench for another full season. Flip should be trying to get him at least a couple of minutes a game but it hard with the depth a PF. Trading away a Sheed or even Dice would help alleviate that. I don't see this team winning the Championship but we have a chance to semi-rebuild with our picks and youngsters already in place. Moving Sheed or Dice would only help accelerate this. Sheed is obviously worth more and the team plays well without him so I simply picked him as the main trading piece. I say this because I have a real fear that we will lose Chauncey in the off-season.

If we lose Chauncey in the off season I think we are automatically out of "semi-rebuild" mode and placed squarely into "fucked" mode.

Has Amir stopped growing? How much time should he get while he's still getting taller? Honestly, I'd be tooling him as a C/PF at the rate he's going.

Has Amir stopped growing? How much time should he get while he's still getting taller? Honestly, I'd be tooling him as a C/PF at the rate he's going.

I think that he is still growing but that means all the more that he should be getting some pt. I think that giving him that few minutes on the floor will help his confidence and make him more comfortable no matter what position he ends up at. We still don't know what he can really do except for the fact that he looked great in what little playing time he's had.

Sheed is obviously worth more and the team plays well without him so I simply picked him as the main trading piece.

Sheed and McDyess probably hold about the same value for teams looking to cut budget. McDyess will opt out of his contract next year, so he'd come off the books for some cost-cutting team. Also, if we trade Sheed, who becomes our starting PF next year. Max is doing well, but I don't know if he's ready to become a fulltime starter for us. He's definitely ready to be our first big off the bench, taking McDyess's place.

just because he has a certain height doesn't mean he can be groomed for a particular position. IMO amir is and always will be a PF. he could swing to the SF a bit if he develops his game.

but he is not suited to be a center IMO. his game and his athleticism would be wasted that way...

Either way, I think that he needs to play......period. That's tough to do when he's 4th on the depth chart (and sometimes 5th when we play small ball with Sheed at C and Prince at PF). If we want to get Max more ptand Amir some/any pt, it look slike we might have to move a PF.

Sheed's defense is still extremely important to this team. Max, Dice and Nazr can't even come close to checking the other team's top big as well, IMO.

just because he has a certain height doesn't mean he can be groomed for a particular position. IMO amir is and always will be a PF. he could swing to the SF a bit if he develops his game.

but he is not suited to be a center IMO. his game and his athleticism would be wasted that way...
He's a natural shotblocker, plays tall, and has shown more basketball IQ than Darko at this stage. In today's league, Amir could be a C in the same way that Amare is in Phoenix, and no one would say Amare's athleticism is wasted.

We have to keep Sheed and trade Dice.

McDyess hasn't been himself the whole year. He can't hit his money jumpers or play the D sheed has.

Dice and Flip Murray for a backup guard!

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think we should keep everything we have right now. No more trading players to "make room." If Amir were really ready to play, he'd play over someone. No sense trading away a good piece of the puzzle so we can plod through Amir's development when we have capable guys on the bench who are better than he is.

Case in point: we didn't trade away anyone to make room for Max, yet he's playing now. He has overcome being a victim of circumstances and landed a spot in the rotation.

If Amir wants to play, he can earn it. And he certainly will, though I don't think it'll come 'til next year, unless Tay goes down with an injury (God forbid!).

Cross, I just realized your avatar still has Benedict in it, from the whole BACK TO WORK era. Totally random, I know. Time for a change maybe?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think we should keep everything we have right now. No more trading players to "make room." If Amir were really ready to play, he'd play over someone. No sense trading away a good piece of the puzzle so we can plod through Amir's development when we have capable guys on the bench who are better than he is.

Case in point: we didn't trade away anyone to make room for Max, yet he's playing now. He has overcome being a victim of circumstances and landed a spot in the rotation.

If Amir wants to play, he can earn it. And he certainly will, though I don't think it'll come 'til next year, unless Tay goes down with an injury (God forbid!).

So far Nazr and Flip have been pretty "broke". I think that our back up PG situation is "broke" and our center situation leaves something to be desired. Max has only gotten more pt because of Sheed's injury. Max has shown in that time that he can play. As for Amir it's hard to get PT when the coach favors his vets so much. Dumars had to pretty much lay down the law to get Delfino some minutes. Trading away a PF would get us that quality back-up PG that we NEED and maybe bring something else if we add Nazr or Flip to the deal.

If Amir wants to play, he can earn it. And he certainly will, though I don't think it'll come 'til next year, unless Tay goes down with an injury (God forbid!).

Max "earned it" last year. Yet it still took an injury to a starter over a year later to get an opportunity. And even then, it took him dominating games and hitting a game winner to solidify even a 15mpg role despite other guys (Flip, Dice, Lindsey) having minutes fall in their lap, and playing like shit. The whole "earn it" concept with this team is broke.

Cross, I just realized your avatar still has Benedict in it, from the whole BACK TO WORK era. Totally random, I know. Time for a change maybe?

I know its killing me, but it looks pretty sweet to me. Im still looking to come across for something nice[smilie=llama_banan:

Max "earned it" last year. Yet it still took an injury to a starter over a year later to get an opportunity. And even then, it took him dominating games and hitting a game winner to solidify even a 15mpg role despite other guys (Flip, Dice, Lindsey) having minutes fall in their lap, and playing like shit. The whole "earn it" concept with this team is broke.
You think JMax has "solidified" a role?

I think that he has. He hasn't proven that he is necessarily a starter but he has proven that he belongs in the rotation. Why wouldn't he? He has proven that he isn't intimidated. He's hit a winning shot in the clutch. He's playing very solid defense. He brings energy every time he steps on the floor and he eats babies! If that doesn't earn you a spot in the rotation, I don't know what does!!!

I think that he has. He hasn't proven that he is necessarily a starter but he has proven that he belongs in the rotation. Why wouldn't he? He has proven that he isn't intimidated. He's hit a winning shot in the clutch. He's playing very solid defense. He brings energy every time he steps on the floor and he eats babies! If that doesn't earn you a spot in the rotation, I don't know what does!!!

Rasheed is without question the most talented player on the roster. We only go as far as Rasheed is able to take us. Yes, he takes dumb shots at times (as does billups) but he's also our only legit low post option and most talented offensive weapon. Also, he's one of the best low post defenders in the league, without debate. The pistons season last year took a severe nose dive the second Rasheed hurt himself against the cavs. People forget that. Trading him is absolutely moronic to even consider.

As for Mad Max securing a spot in the rotation that's also wishful thinking. You are forgetting we have a moron running the team from the sidelines. Max can and most likely will be removed from the rotation the second Sheed is able to go 35 a night.

The only player the team should consider trading to free up time for Mad Max is Mcdyess who is on the major downside of his career. He'll never be consistently good again. With him gone people forget it doesn't only free up time for maxiell but also Nazr. Getting rid of him doesn't automatically put Amir into rotation decisions unless injuries occur. If sheed's ankle improves to the point he's 100% by the all-star break don't be surprised to see mcdyess gone.

I'm of the opinion that Joe d. needs to force Flip's coaching hand since our leader is a fool. He really is potentially the worst coach in the league but that's a different discussion for a different thread that I would love to participate in.

Does McDyess get traded? He has a player's option that makes things a big X factor. My hunch is that McDyess starts playing better come January and we see more DNPs and <5 minute games for JMax.

I agree about not trading Sheed, of course, unless we're talking Oden or KG.

You think JMax has "solidified" a role?

The only thing that makes me hesitant to say "Hell yes" is the fact that we're talking about Flip Saunders here.

With him gone people forget it doesn't only free up time for maxiell but also Nazr.


Too me, this screams DO NOT TRADE MCDYESS! I'd rather see them move Nazr, but I think you've all figured that out by now. He needs more minutes..........for another team.



You are forgetting we have a moron running the team from the sidelines.

I'm of the opinion that Joe d. needs to force Flip's coaching hand since our leader is a fool. He really is potentially the worst coach in the league but that's a different discussion for a different thread that I would love to participate in.

I wouldn't mind seeing Joe D pull a Kevin McHale if he thinks something needs to be done with the head coaching spot. Fire Flip and take over as head coach himself. I don't know how it would work out or if he would even be a good head coach, but I would be interested in seeing what he could do. Just think of Joe D with Bill L as his top assistant who could eventually step in when Joe feels the organization is back where it should be in terms of player development and playing time. Maybe this is also a topic for another thread.

Yet another DNP for Amir, even with a big time blowout with reserves playing for the whole 4th qtr. That sucks!!!!!!!!

Interesting to hear Blaha say "Max is going to be playing every night from now on folks..."

I wonder how Blaha would do coaching the team?

Amir wasn't on the 12-man roster. Once the game started, Flip couldn't put him in even if he wanted to.

Blaha would be the ultimate "players coach".

Amir wasn't on the 12-man roster. Once the game started, Flip couldn't put him in even if he wanted to.

Blaha would be the ultimate "players coach".

Well CRAP!!! I really want to see Amir play. I think that he's going to be good but I fear that we'll never know.

I wonder what Mad Max would do is Shaq was playing. Would he charge in? I can't wait for it.

Interesting to hear Blaha say "Max is going to be playing every night from now on folks..."

I wonder how Blaha would do coaching the team?

I can just hear the huddle now:

"Alright boys, two and twenty left in the fourth, time for a big time play! Mr Big Shot, see if you can get it inside and kiss it off the high glass, otherwise, try and make a sweet assist to the Long Arm of The Law over there for a DYnaMITE dunk and the win!"

I can just hear the huddle now:

"Alright boys, two and twenty left in the fourth, time for a big time play! Mr Big Shot, see if you can get it inside and kiss it off the high glass, otherwise, try and make a sweet assist to the Long Arm of The Law over there for a DYnaMITE dunk and the win!"


Coach of the Year

Cue the sweet string music.

I wouldn't move Sheed for sure. You can't get return value on him and there are not many more talented big men, old or not. He shows up in big games anyway (for the most part).

Why are we worried about Amir's position? To me the only thing that matters is who he can guard. Look at Diaw. You don't need a specific position, you just need to be able to gaurd your position. If we learned one thing from Darko it should be that you can't make a person play a certain way based on predispositions of what they should be. Not all centers are post players. There are jump shooting PF's, SF's that slash, SF's that post more, etc. Postions (outside PG) are defined by the position they can guard, IMO.

If Amir can gaurd SF's, than he can team with Max to be our F's of the future. If he fills out and can guard centers then he can play there. There is no way to know until he is out there guarding them. To me he looks like he is fast enough to guard SF's. I sure hope he learns a lot from Prince on the defensive end.

I'm mostly worried that we don't have any quality up-and-coming young guys that can defend or do other things like win a jump ball that suggest he play at C. Nazr doesn't cut it for me, especially with his foul rate. Rasheed shows worrisome signs of gimpiness and Dale doesn't have many minutes left in him. It's hard to find a good C.

Sheed earned his money tonight against the Nets. Mcdyess didn't. Max did. I still really think that we need to trade away a PF and i'm thinking Dice. Flip played like crap......again, so maybe Joe can package them for something. I would say Nazr but he has put together decent games back to back.

You know what you need - Andrew Bogut. He will give you victory

So much for moving Mad Max into the regular rotation. He's gone, as I suspected would happen. Whenever a bench guy has a good run, he has to essentially play all star basketball to stay in the rotation.

So much for moving Mad Max into the regular rotation. He's gone, as I suspected would happen. Whenever a bench guy has a good run, he has to essentially play all star basketball to stay in the rotation.
He looked pretty damn good tonight!

As for the title of this thread and the idea of not "needing" Sheed...preposterous!

Max did play well. There were a couple rebounds I thought we had no chance at and he got to them.

We shouldn't trade anyone right now.

With Sheed becoming more and more like a gimp, Davis losing the war against Father Time and Nazr being as foul-prone as ever our depth up front is a very, very good thing.

Sure it sucks that some games Maxiell doesn't get much time. But he's the young buck and he's got to pay his dues. As long as he doesn't get a shitty attitude and steps up when called upon it's not a problem.

Maxiell's attitude and ability to step in at a moments notice is also a nice example to Delfino, Amir and Blalock. They can actually see that if you work hard, stay positive and perform when called upon you can secure yourself a future.

Flip Saunders won't Coach here forever.

one thing for certain, Mad Max is quickly becoming a fan favorite. his powerful, take-no-prisoners style of play is very unique on this team and the crowd/fans definitely recognize it.

Flip Saunders won't Coach here forever.

I can't wait.

Over the last 4 games Sheed has only scored 27 points. This is when we needed him to step up with Chauncey out but instead he's been MIA and we went 1-3. I don't know if he's hurt or just lost interest or most likely both. It's things like this that make me wonder if we should get rid of him.

Lack of motivation?

Kind of scares me, dont want to see Sheed in this "slump"

If we add C. Webb, this thread picks up steam again!!!!!