Tigers field pitching offers at Meetings
With deep staff, club may make inexpensive Maroth available

While the Winter Meetings began Monday at Walt Disney World, Mike Maroth might as well be a world away, even though he's just down the road.

The Orlando native and resident doesn't plan on visiting Tigers front-office officials while they're here, figuring that they'll be busy enough without him stopping by, and he doesn't plan on reading what goes on there. He has avoided keeping up with Hot Stove news, especially while he's one of the more interesting Tigers for other teams to ponder.

"It's like I've always said," Maroth said by phone on Monday evening. "I don't worry about it. It's out of my control."

As the going rate climbs for free agent pitchers this winter, Maroth is under contract at a relative bargain of $2.95 million in 2007, the final season of the two-year deal he signed in lieu of salary arbitration last winter. After parts of five Major League seasons, he's a young veteran, even though he's not eligible for free agency until after the 2008 season.

His 2006 season devolved following June surgery to remove bone chips in his elbow, but there's little doubt that he'll be ready to pitch when Spring Training games begin. It's likely he'll do that in a Tigers uniform, but it's far from guaranteed.

"I would say there's a real strong chance that we wouldn't trade the four guys who started for us in the postseason," team president/general manager Dave Dombrowski said on Monday. "And then beyond that, I'd have to say that you listen to what people have to say, but I can't give you any odds on that."

That quiets much of the trade buzz regarding Jeremy Bonderman, whose future in Detroit looked less certain before three solid postseason starts made Detroit more likely to sign him to a long-term contract. But it doesn't rule out dealing Maroth, who was left off Detroit's playoff roster while struggling to regain his old form coming off surgery.

The Tigers are not believed to be actively seeking deals on Maroth, either, but they'll listen -- something they've done plenty in general already. More clubs are calling the Tigers, Dombrowski said, rather than the other way around.

That's the position they've put themselves in between their pitching depth, early moves to shore up their lineup and their financial flexibility. Nothing clear emerged on Monday, and the Tigers weren't believed to be close on any deals.

"We're probably one of the few clubs that have five established starting pitchers, and then also have some depth behind them," Dombrowski said. "Because even though we made the [Gary Sheffield] trade, we've still got guys that are close to pitching. We've got [Wilfredo] Ledezma. We've got [Zach] Miner. [Jason] Grilli could start if he had to. In addition, we've got guys like [Jordan] Tata, [Jair] Jurrjens, [Eulogio] De La Cruz. We don't think those guys are very far away from being able to start. And of course, that doesn't include Andrew Miller.

"That is a strength of ours still, the young pitching. And you can tell people are interested. People call us. They ask us about it. We've had proposals made to us in that regard. We're going to just kind of listen and take some of that in and see if anything makes sense for us."


Going young, going left: The Tigers continue to keep their options open to bringing in a left-handed reliever, be it by trade or free agency. But at this point, the latter is looking less and less likely.

After watching the market escalate on situational relievers, the Tigers are reluctant to go into the territory of long-term deals.

"I know the market right now has really been a wild market," Dombrowski said, "and the one thing I don't want to do is to get somebody that fits that description and put us in a spot where we sign a contract that we're not happy with in a year. I really would rather have a short-term contract if it came down to that, or a young guy, unless the right guy you could sign. But I don't know who that guy is right now."

That leaves the options of either taking a chance on a lower-level free agent or pursuing a trade. That's one area where the Tigers have made proposals, Dombrowski said. So have other teams, of course, leaving Detroit in the position of pursuing younger, unproven lefties as well as veteran southpaws.

"I think we'd be open either way," Dombrowski said. "We're talking about both, so we really have discussed both types of guys."

The Tigers had brief discussions Monday with officials from the Marlins, who boast a young rookie lefty in 24-year-old Venezuelan Kenyel Pinto, but talks were not believed to be serious. They have also had discussions this offseason with the Rangers, who have a coveted lefty in C.J. Wilson and need starting pitching. However, Texas is expected to make Wilson a starter rather than deal him. The Rangers also have Ron Mahay, whom they retained by picking up his $1 million option for next season.

Unless Detroit trades an incumbent starter, the left-handed Ledezma is expected to open the year in the bullpen. Dombrowski cautioned that the Tigers view Ledezma more as a middle reliever than a specialist. Yet with setup men Joel Zumaya and Fernando Rodney effective against left-handed hitters, Dombrowski said that a middle-inning lefty could be what they need.

"Really, if we didn't do anything with our bullpen -- with Jones, Zumaya, Rodney, Ledezma, Grilli, and then we've got other guys there that we do like -- we'd be fine with that. It's not that we're not going to try to do something, but if we had to go there, we would be fine."


Shell game on Shelton: Could Chris Shelton's fall from power hitter in April to Triple-A Toledo in July be followed by a move to the trading block? Possibly, but not quite yet.

Three teams have inquired about Shelton since the Tigers contingent arrived here on Sunday night, Dombrowski said. None of those offers were very appealing.

"Normally when they inquire about him," Dombrowski said, "they're thinking that they're just going to get him for very little, because they think that it's a good time to try to get him. And we like him. I'm not saying we wouldn't necessarily trade him or anybody else. But we're not just going to be in a spot where somebody comes by and gets him for an A-ball fringe guy. We like Chris Shelton."

The Orioles are believed to be interested in him in their search for a right-handed power hitter. Meanwhile, Baltimore vice president of baseball operations Jim Duquette told reporters on Monday that he targeted talks toward teams in need of pitching, though most of the O's talks involved righty swingman Rodrigo Lopez.
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061204&content_id=1750678&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

There's some buzz circulating that the Tigers might be willing to move outfielder Craig Monroe, who hit .255 with 28 homers in 147 games. The Tigers upgraded their offense recently with the addition of Gary Sheffield, and they need left-handed relief help with the departure of Jamie Walker through free agency.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2685697


With J.D. Drew having departed, the Dodgers continue their search for another hitter. As talks drag with Boston for Ramirez, one AL source said that Los Angeles has approached Detroit multiple times about Craig Monroe. The Tigers might be willing to move Monroe, which would leave them with an outfield of Marcus Thames, Curtis Granderson and Magglio Ordonez, with Gary Sheffield as the DH.
http://www.sportsline.com/columns/weblogs/entry/bull_pennings

I would gladly take one of Matt Kemp, Chad Billingsley, Jonathan Broxton or James Loney for Monroe.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2685697


http://www.sportsline.com/columns/weblogs/entry/bull_pennings

I would gladly take one of Matt Kemp, Chad Billingsley, Jonathan Broxton or James Loney for Monroe.

I'm not familiar with any of those players. Could you elaborate on them? I'd like to move Monroe for a good IF/C prospect that might be a year away.

The Orioles inquired about Tigers outfielder Craig Monroe, but they were told that he's not available. The Tigers, in search of a left-handed bat, asked for Nick Markakis but were told he's not available, according to a baseball source.

I'm not familiar with any of those players. Could you elaborate on them? I'd like to move Monroe for a good IF/C prospect that might be a year away.

Outside of Loney, none of them are IF prospects.

Jonathan Broxton is a firebaling RHP in the mold of Zumaya. He is the heir apparen to Takashi Saito at closer. Chad Billingsley is a 22-year old RHP with a 3 good pitches (fastball, slider and curveball). Has the potential to be a strong #2 starter.

Matt Kemp is a power-hitting OFer and James Loney is a slick-fielding 1B.

You can look at their stats here: http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/la/fan_forum/prospects.jsp

I have a feeling that Monroe will be moved in a three team deal along the lines of...

Monroe to Colorado, Maroth and with a mid level Tiger prospect to Chicago Cubs, Alvin Colina (24 y/o rockies catching prospect) to Detroit, Eyre or Ohman with J Jones and some cash to cover Jones last two years to Detroit (his deal baloons from 4 mil in 06 to 9 mil in 07).

There is no specfic rumor or truth to my deal, but Jones asked the Cubs to trade him. Plus the Rockies want a corner outfielder with Monroe/Jones like ability. The Tigers want a LH reliever the Cubs have a few, and a catching prospect which the Rockies have the ability to offer they have 3 solid prospects in their system.

Jones makes sense for us if the Cubs picked up some of the dollars, he has above average power, and is a similar player to C-Mo but he gives us a versaitile left handed bat since he can play all three OF spots.

Even if nothing happens, I just like the fact that even though it was widely thought that Detroit was done with their offense, they are still in many conversations that could end with a mid-range move or two, maybe even a blockbuster if enough chips fell. In Dave I trust.

The Devil Rays continue to receive trade inquiries on outfielders Rocco Baldelli, Carl Crawford and Delmon Young, with Baldelli a particular focus of discussion.

The Braves, Dodgers, Tigers and White Sox are among the many teams pursuing Baldelli, a center fielder who also can play the corner-outfield positions.

The Braves would use Baldelli in an outfield corner next season, then move him to center in 2008 if they lost Andruw Jones as a free agent.

The Tigers are interested in all three Rays outfielders, presumably with the idea of trading Craig Monroe or Marcus Thames.

The Rays want premium young pitching in any deal.

I hate the Sheffield trade even more now.

Really? I think all the madness this offseason has just made the Sheff deal look better and better and better. If Juan Pierre and Gary Matthews are getting 10 mill, sheff at 16 looks like a bargain.

We never had what it took to get Young or Crawford and I have my doubts that Sanchez would have been enough to get Baldelli anyways. The rays want the world for those three and fish them out there every year just to see what they can get but never trade them.

I don't like the Sheffield trade for a couple of reasons:

- We are going to be stuck with Maggs in the outfield for atleast 3 more years (5 years if his options kick in).

- We still don't have that Lefty power bat we have been looking for. I would've preferred to see us sign a FA like Bonds (as the DH) and use Humberto and Whelan as a trade bait for Crawford or Texeria or somebody like that.

As for a center fielder, the Marlins continue to talk to several clubs. They met briefly on Monday with the Detroit Tigers -- who have Marcus Thames and minor-leaguer Brent Clevlen available -- but that discussion wasn't considered serious. The Marlins appear to match up best with Tampa Bay, which covets the young pitching Beinfest has to offer in exchange for one of the Devil Rays' young outfield candidates.


Baltimore also has interest in outfielder/designated hitter Marcus Thames, although the Tigers have kept a high price tag on him. Although Leyland would prefer that his extra outfielder be a left-handed hitter, the team is not inclined to give away someone who homered more frequently this year than Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Lee, when measured by at-bats per home run.

"Right now, we have a good extra outfielder: Marcus Thames," Dombrowski said. "He hit 26 home runs. It's just that we're a little more right-handed than we'd like.

"But if we start the season with Marcus Thames, Jim's happy to have Marcus Thames on his club. We'd prefer to have a left-handed hitter, but we're not going to take a guy just because he hits left-handed."

Thames might be the Tigers' most popular trade commodity but he may might not be dealt anywhere this week, unless the Boston Red Sox quickly determine their course with Manny Ramirez. A deal involving Ramirez could have a domino effect on the market for right-handed-hitting corner outfielders, Thames included.


The Tigers also are seeking a left-handed relief pitcher, but have not found a match yet. A few examples:

• Pittsburgh has three left-handed relievers, but likely would ask for a left-handed hitter for Mike Gonzalez, John Grabow or Damaso Marte.

• The Tigers asked about Pedro Feliciano, the Mets' late-inning left-hander, but New York GM Omar Minaya almost certainly will keep him.

• The Tigers spoke with the Dodgers earlier this off-season, but the sides are no longer engaged in an active dialogue. The Tigers are lukewarm about left-handed reliever Joe Beimel, and Los Angeles club officials aren't inclined to move him, anyway.

I don't like the Sheffield trade for a couple of reasons:

- We are going to be stuck with Maggs in the outfield for atleast 3 more years (5 years if his options kick in).

- We still don't have that Lefty power bat we have been looking for. I would've preferred to see us sign a FA like Bonds (as the DH) and use Humberto and Whelan as a trade bait for Crawford or Texeria or somebody like that.

I guess I just disagree that we had enough of a package to get a Crawford or a Teixeira type, even with Sanchez and Whelan.

We might have been able to get them simply because both teams seem VERY desperate for pitching this offseason, but I tend to agree with Vinny. Now, if we would have included Monroe with the rest of the package, perhaps we might have had a deal. However, I think the organization thought that would be too much to give up for 1 player whose returns wouldn't be that much more than what Monroe could have proveded himself.

Normally, I would agree with you guys. But given the way the FA market has gone this year, I am fairly confident that we could've gotten a player like Texeria or Crawford.

Teams are desperate for pitching (and to some extent, hitting) this offseason. We definitely could've used this situation to acquire a big bat and/or good IF/C prospect.

Take a team like Texas for example. The lost Carlos Lee, Gary Mattews Jr., Mark DeRosa, Kip Wells and Adam Eaton this offseason. That's a lot of holes to fill in one offseason. I am pretty sure they would be seriously consider trading Texeria if we offered a package of Humberto, Whelan, Shelton and a guy like Colon or Grilli.

Fucky, even if we weren't able to get a guy like Texeria, we could've gotten a Markakis/Milledge or an Adam Dunn.

With the Orioles growing increasingly pessimistic about their chances of signing free-agent outfielder Luis Gonzalez, they have turned to other options, including the Detroit Tigers' Marcus Thames and free agent Jay Payton.

The Orioles were in talks about a possible three-way deal with the Washington Nationals and Tigers on Tuesday night that would have sent pitcher Rodrigo Lopez to Washington, a Nationals player (possibly outfielder Ryan Church) to Detroit and Thames to Baltimore, according to two industry sources.

However, the player the Nationals would send to Detroit was never agreed on, leaving the Orioles to consider other avenues to try to acquire Thames, a 29-year-old, right-handed-hitting outfielder who batted .256 with 26 homers and 60 RBIs last season as a reserve outfielder for Detroit.

It likely will take a three-way deal for the Orioles to get Thames because Detroit is seeking a young catcher to back up Ivan Rodriguez or a left-handed setup man. The Orioles have little catching depth in their organization, and their left-handed relievers -- Brian Burres, Kurt Birkins and John Parrish -- are unproven or health risks.

Given the underwhelming left-field options available on the trade or free-agent markets, Orioles officials would be content with Thames being the everyday left fielder for the 2007 season. He could then be used as a fourth outfielder for 2008 and beyond if prospect Nolan Reimold is ready or if the Orioles acquire another outfielder next year.

Thames would remain an option even if Gonzalez surprises club officials and decides to accept the Orioles' offer, a one-year deal for about $7 million. Gonzalez's agent, Gregg Clifton, met with Orioles officials around midnight Tuesday and was expected to again Wednesday night. However, the Orioles had no plans to give him a two-year offer, which Gonzalez was seeking to come east.


The Detroit Tigers asked the Jays whether they were interested in any of their excess backup middle infielders: Either Omar Infante (.277, four, 25) or Ramon Santiago (.225, 0, 3).

If we get a young catcher that is MLB ready, what becomes of Vance Wilson and his new 2 year deal?

Dunn or Milledge maybe but Teixeira, Crawford and even Markakis are considered budding superstars. Those guys don't get traded unless it's for an overwhelming offer or signability concerns. They're not going to take our B prospects. We would have had to probably include 2 of Maybin, Zumaya and Miller.

Bonds is seeking a one-year, $18 million contract with a vesting option that could bring a similar salary in 2008. Clearly, the Giants don't want to pay that much, but they feel comfortable they have the desire and resources to give him a guaranteed number (a bit more than $10 million) that would exceed anything he would receive elsewhere.

According ESPN, FOX Sports and WDFN Leyland sat down and talked with Bonds, neither side has commented on the seriousness or contents of the discussion. 18 Million is a bit much but I am sure a number closer to 14-15 with deferments is possible if the Tigers are serious. I know the Tigers added Sheff so they haven't stood still, but in all honesty outside of arbiration eligible players the team salary hasn't increased markedly that we can't afford Bonds. We should try hard to get him regardless of the downside becase his addition is more valuable than damaging.

I have less of a problem with the Sheff deal than most because I think New York is a vortex where prospects go to die, so if any of the prospects come back to haunt us it will be after NY trades them.

My concern with the Sheff deal is the same however as you H1 when it comes to the lack of LH bat, we still need a power LH bat. That is why the Bonds meeting with Leyland yesterday hopefully has a lot of truth and momentum behind it. As much as Bonds is a polarizing player and is aging he is still worth it. If we could land Bonds at his production of even last year we are a helluva a lot better and balanced. Bonds last year in 367 AB over 130 games would have been 3rd in HR's, 5th in RBI's, 2nd in Slugging, 1st by 54 points in OBP over Gulien and over 100 points better than 3rd on the team, Maggs.

His OBP is what makes Bonds a huge addition to any team even in decline his walks was almost equal to Thames, Monroe and Maggs combined. Bonds 115 BB's the platoon of OF's 119. Imagine taking Thames out of the Picture and replacing him with Bonds you don't lose power production but you gain 24 points in BA, 119 Points in OBP including 88 more walks. For those needing a visual the lineup would be....

1. CF Granderson
2. 2B Polanco
3. LF Sheffield
4. DH Bonds
5. RF Maggs
6. SS Guillen
7. C Pudge
8. 1B Casey
9. 3B Inge

That is not only balanced beyond belief but it is a nighmare for managers late in games. I don't see the down side in taking a chance on a 1 year deal with an incentive based option for 08. If he sucks it was 1 yr if he produces than you get a second year which at worst is an offseaon center piece to flip to get prospects.

I would have jumped all over Bonds if we didn't already get Sheff.

Playing 2 of Maggs/Sheff/Bonds at the same time in that huge outfield is just asking for trouble.

I would love Bonds on this team.

But given the history between Sheffield and Bonds, I have a hard time seeing us acquire him.

Barry Bonds came to the winter meetings Wednesday without warning, stunning the Giants and bringing national attention to himself, as only he can. Despite the Giants' disdain for what they perceived as a stunt, they participated in another day of negotiations with Jeff Borris, Bonds' agent.

The late-afternoon talks lasted three hours in general manager Brian Sabean's suite, though Bonds was gone by then. Earlier, Bonds met a couple of times with Detroit manager Jim Leyland.


While talk of a three-way deal sending Andruw Jones to the Dodgers was dismissed, the Rays and Braves were still believed to be discussing a Rocco Baldell-for-Chuck James deal. It's probably not going to happen. The Rays could do better elsewhere anyway. We likes James in Atlanta, but his extreme flyball tendencies likely wouldn't work so well in the Trop and the AL East. The Orioles, Dodgers, White Sox and Tigers still might be possibilities for Baldelli. The Marlins, once thought to be a leading candidate, haven't been talking with the Rays lately. It's believed they're unwilling to part with any of the current members of their rotation.


A three-way deal that would have landed the Baltimore Orioles a new starter in left field, the Detroit Tigers' Marcus Thames, hit stumbling blocks last night and might not be revived.

According to two industry sources, the proposed deal had Orioles' pitcher Rodrigo Lopez headed to the Houston Astros while Astros' outfielder Luke Scott would have gone to Detroit.

The Orioles are also considering free-agent Jay Payton.
That's the second three-way deal for Thames involving the Orioles. I would have to imagine that Thames will be gone sooner or later.

You are right Thames is gone, no way do you shop him in every deal mentioned and not end up moving him sooner than later.

I like Rocco but not as a F/T time player on this team he is the perfect Utility OF.

The O's are in need of a RH OF they 9 OF listed on their roster all of them LH not a single Right hander. In fact the O's only have 4 RH hitters on their whole roster.

I understand that the Orioles are trying to dish local product Jay Gibbons for Thames. Personally, I wouldn't mind that. While he's got a history of injury, what's the problem? He's a lefty, he's a fairly solid hitter in comparison, he could get AB's in LF, RF, 1B and DH, and we wouldn't be dependent on his health as an every day starter. He's capable of .270 and 25 HR with 450 AB and he's 29. I like the move myself. Maybe not straight up, but it's worth a shot either way. Player to be named later?

The Tigers and Orioles tried unsuccessfully to execute a three-way deal involving outfielder Marcus Thames during these meetings.

Baltimore has significant interest in Thames but couldn't produce the left-handed hitter the Tigers wanted in return. The Tigers have no interest in Jay Gibbons, and rookie star Nick Markakis isn't available.

So they tried to find a third team to supply the outfielder. Tigers officials have interest in Washington's Ryan Church and Houston's Luke Scott - two young, left-handed-hitting outfielders - but neither team was able to reach a deal with the Orioles.

Peter Angelo is an asshole and doesn't deserve to be an owner, he is 100 times worse than Ford in the NFL and 100 times more meddling than Steinbrenner.

Unless Peter knows that he is making an absolute killing in a deal or in a contract , he won't sign off. So basically if he isn't getting great for shit there is no deal. Over the last 4-5 years he has had awesome trade offers come his way but he nit picks them until the other team tells him to get screwed. For example last year he could of had Lowell and Beckett for Bedard,Majewski and a prospect but wouldn't sign off on the deal because of Lowell's cancer history and Beckett's blister problem.

I get the fact he wants to be careful but it takes a leap of faith, and risk to win in any pro sport. The Tigers are best example of that. Angelo had a chance at both Pudge and Maggs cheaper than what we were offering but pulled out at the last second.

EDIT: Thanks Pete for giving me an updated example ,proving you are a huge douche...


They did essentially agree to a trade that would have sent second baseman Brian Roberts and pitching prospect Hayden Penn to the Atlanta Braves for first baseman Adam LaRoche and second baseman Marcus Giles, but the trade was squashed by Orioles owner Peter Angelos.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-os1207,0,5794685.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines

Leyland said if Thames isn't traded that he'll take ground ball reps so he can play backup 1B this year.

Outside of Bonds' ego, would he be capable of playing some 1B?

^moot point, he re-signed with the Giants

Ah damn, hadn't heard that, thanks Glenn.

great. now that cheater is going to break the HR record. I hope he calls it quits from injuries before then.

The Orioles still hope to acquire another right-handed-hitting outfielder, with their top target being the Detroit Tigers' Marcus Thames, 29, who hit .256 with 26 homers and 60 RBIs last season. The Tigers are willing to trade him, but the Orioles do not have any pieces, such as a young, left-handed-hitting outfielder or a left-handed reliever, that interest Detroit.

To overcome that, the Orioles have tried to swing a three-way deal with starter Rodrigo Lopez as their bargaining chip, but have watched two attempts, with the Houston Astros and Washington Nationals, break down. As of yesterday, the Orioles still were looking for a third team that could help them land Thames.

If they acquire Thames, that would enable the Orioles to use Payton in center field to replace Corey Patterson against tough left-handers.

You know your team is pretty set when all you're looking for is a lefthanded reliever and a part-time lefthanded bat. That's what Tigers manager Jim Leyland was seeking at the meetings. Leyland would swap righthanded-hitting outfielder Marcus Thames for a lefthanded bat. Asked if he had interest in Trot Nixon, he said he would but the money might be prohibitive. Would the Tigers move closer Todd Jones? The possibility was floating around the meetings. The Tigers will eventually move Joel Zumaya to the closer role, so Jones could bring the lefthanded bat.

Signing Mesa adds credence to us moving Rodney or Jones.

Just read this and got excited.

It's Zoom's time.

Get Jones the fuck outta here.

I'm all for Zumaya closing and Jones being gone...but what could he possibly bring us? He can't be that valuable. maybe we could package him with Thames, I don't know. I'll defer to the baseball experts on here.

Boston needs a closer, unless they sign Gagne, that is.

What's wrong with Papelbon? Are they making him a starter? Do they have a C prospect we can have?

What's wrong with Papelbon? Are they making him a starter?

Yes, they expect 200 innings from him.

What's wrong with Papelbon? Are they making him a starter? Do they have a C prospect we can have?

Starter to be and lead the league in Blown Saves. Mostly the starter part though.

I think if Lester comes back healthy and is not seriously worn down by his cancer treatment Paplebon stays the closer. Assuming that Lester is healthy, they have Schilling, Wakefield, Lester, Beckett, Clement, Matsuzaka who are all starters plus they are going to court Clemens to keep him off the Yanks.

Lester as of now is their only LH starter so they need him in the rotation. Schilling was a failure at closing and is more useful starting, Beckett and Matsuzaka are too pricy for the Bullpen. So those are 4 of 5 starters, even without Clemens there would be 3 guys fighting for the 5th place.

Bottomline is unless the Red Sox want Jones badly(who failed to win the closing job his first time with Boston) I doubt the Red Sox are willing to deal for him.

However Lopez and Breslow are both LH relievers , and Hinske (who is the odd man out in Boston) is a LH utility player that fit the bill of players we could use. It doesn't look like the Red Sox have any quality C prospects because they are looking for one and they are still looking for a back up to Varitek.

The nice part about dealing Jones would be the salary that would come off the books which we could invest in adding to our bench.

I'm pretty sure that Papelbon "demanded" to be a starter.

I'm also thinking that they never really intended to sign Matsuzaka, they might have just been blocking the Yankees from getting him.

The BoSox will definitely add a closer IMO, it probably won't be Jones, but I can dream can't I?

Oh, I think they did want to sign him but they didn't anticipate it being this difficult based on previous deals for Asian players.

And Glenn, we all know that your dreams of the BoSox include them signing Bobby Higginson, Juan Gonzales and Vinny Castilla to long term deals that average a combined $35 million per year.

I'm pretty sure that Papelbon "demanded" to be a starter.

I'm also thinking that they never really intended to sign Matsuzaka, they might have just been blocking the Yankees from getting him.

The BoSox will definitely add a closer IMO, it probably won't be Jones, but I can dream can't I?

Papelbon did say he wanted to start, but right now he is the best option as closer. There is no one left in the FA market, outside of Foulke who they told good bye to. At this point I just don't think Papelbon will have much say on the subject.

I agree with you on Matsuzaka, it was just a blocking manuever by the BoSox. Although as of this morning Boras has come down from 15-16 per to 11, but the Bosox countered with 8. At this point I think there is a better than 50% shot he doesn't sign. On the otherhand if all you could make in Japan next season was 3 million and you are offered 5-7 million more,it is possible Boras could lose his leverage, if money starts talking and Matsuzaka thinks about what he could lose if he gets injured.

If he sign then there is no doubt Theo will look to unload Clement and/or Wakefield for a quality closer.

I have a feeling though the Red Sox are going to offer Clemens a 1 year 25-30 million dollar deal, or something crazy that he won't be able to refuse. If that happens there would be no room for Papelbon in the roation.

Don't get me wrong I would love to trade Jones, I think Zoom is ready and I think getting rid of Jones' salary could improve the team more than keeping him.

If you are Boras/Matsuzaka, do you take $8 mil a year or wait 2 years and come to the US as an unrestricted free agent and maybe make a $100m killing with the Yankees?

Whether he likes it or not, the Sox are factoring in the $51m acquisition fee into his salary offer, but in 2 years, all that $ would be going straight to him.

If you are Boras/Matsuzaka, do you take $8 mil a year or wait 2 years and come to the US as an unrestricted free agent and maybe make a $100m killing with the Yankees?

Whether he likes it or not, the Sox are factoring in the $51m acquisition fee into his salary offer, but in 2 years, all that $ would be going straight to him.

I don't disagree with you, but if I am position player I take my chances waiting 2 years, if I am a pitcher no way do I turn down let's say 50-60 million now for the future. Plus salary is so cyclical in MLB in two years if the Meche, Pierre, Paddilla, Lilly, etc... make teams regret their deals I could see salary coming down or leveling off in 08.

As a pitcher he should take the money Boston gives him. Waiting 2 years could be a disaster. All it takes is one bad throw to ruin a pitching arm.

Rumor from the radio...

Apparently the Astros front office are going to contact Roger Clemens and find out where he stands, not so much if he plans on playing next year but if he would come back to Houston. If he is heavily leaning toward NY or Bos they will evaluate the situation. If the front office feels like it is time to rebuild or at least move on they may look to move guys on the roster who are pricey.

One of those names is Brad Lidge, who would be likely traded to Boston for one of the BoSox surplus starters and a couple prospects, since Houston is hard up for starting pitching after losing 3 starters.

Now this was not discussed but it makes sense if Lidge is gone and they get a decent starter in return, they would still have viable roster in the improved NL central but would not have a closer. Therefore Jones would be a prime candidate for them, and Luke Scott a LH OF is a guy who has been mentioned in trades with Detroit. Plus the Astros have several quality catching prospects, if the Tigers were really good they might be able to land one of MLB's top C prospects like Hector Gimenez.

Get Randy Smith on the phone. Maybe we can work out a deal where we include Ausmus, then send him to San Diego, who sends him back to Houston.