:mccosky:


Out of the mix

As things stand today, Carlos Delfino and Jason Maxiell are out of the main rotation. Maxiell, who has played well, will still see situational minutes, usually when the team needs an energy boost or against a small lineup. Delfino, well, it continues to be a struggle for him.

I am probably guilty of reading too much into his body language. For the most part, his body language is telling me that he isn't happy here and he wants a fresh start elsewhere. He hasn't said that, of course. In fact, after practice, he said what he pretty much always says. As long as the team wins, he doesn't care. He wants to play, sure, but it's not his call. He doesn't really know why he's not playing, but since he's not, he knows he must be doing something wrong. Not scoring and only taking four shots in 20 minutes isn't exactly the kind of production that will keep him on the court. But he will argue that he needs more time to get into the flow. Whatever.

I thought Chauncey Billups made some interesting points about Delfino today, and I want to share them with you. Chosing his words very carefully, Billups said, "Carlos is struggling to find his way a little bit, not knowing how many minutes he's going to play. But like I told him, just come in and play hard. You have to come off that bench with a lot of energy and try to change the game up a little bit. But Carlos, that's not his personality to play (all out) like that. He's more of a cool, finesse-type player. Now that can be miscontrued like he's not playing hard or that he doesn't care. That's not the case. That body language, that's just who he is."

I will defer to Chauncey's read on that, but Billups agreed that cool finesse stuff doesn't play well here. "We don't have that kind of team," Billups said. "We've got a tough, grind-it-out, hard-working team and you tend to stand out when you aren't playing like that."

Exactly right. How can anybody argue that Delfino should get more minutes? Based on what? If it were me, I would play Ron Dupree. At least with Dupe, you know you are going to get energy. You know he's going to fly around and try to make things happen. Whatever errors he makes will certainly be errors of aggression. And I will tell you what, watching him in practice, Dupe has really improved his shooting stroke. I don't know if he really likes the feel of the new basketball or what, but he's draining shot after shot and winning a lot of the post-practice shooting games. Doesn't mean anything until he does it in games, I know, but I am telling you, he's working on his shot and it's improving.

My opinion, Delfino isn't going to make it through the year here. My guess is that he gets thrown into any and every trade package Joe Dumars puts together. Now, as far as I know, Joe isn't looking to put any trade packages together any time soon. It's too early. But if it gets to that point soon after the new year, Delfino will be on the block.

And by the way, for those keeping score, Tony Ronzone, the Pistons much-celebrated international scout, is now 1-5. The one victory (Mehmet Okur, who is now approaching All-Star status with Utah). The five losses (Delfino, Darko Milicic, Zeljko Rebraca, Ratko Varda and Andreas Glyniadakis). I am probably being a little harsh, since the jury is still out on Milicic and Glyniadakis, and Rebraca came up with the heart problems. Still, it's 1-5 in my blog.

Shift topic -- the Sixers are hurting. Chris Webber didn't practice Monday because of a stiff back. He is questionable for Tuesday. Steven Hunter also missed practice with a sore right knee -- questionable. And Allen Iverson's been nursing an abscessed wisdom tooth for a week now. Ouch. Trying playing basketball with that. He is expected to play, unless the pain intensifies.

Damn you Flip.

and McCosky.

Herm,

You got a total thread post count over/under?

I know you used to do total pages, but this is a customizable world we're living in.

eh, not a lot. Its been mashed over, and everyone's kinda calmed down about it. The lovers now are just that, blind folks who like his style but ignore his play (I'm trying here).

I'll say 22 with the opportunity to be way over or above.

[smilie=firing.gif] :flip:

[smilie=iloveyou.gi: :mccosky:



edit: Hell, I'll get 22 by myself.

why can't a player simply get a clue and hustle? seriously, that's not a hard concept. What's with lazy players in detroit (and don't get me started on the lazy Lions WR's).

Why isn't Mad Max in the rotation? Fuck that bullshit. Feed that man some f-in babies!

http://www.nd.edu/~folk/funpics/newsletter/babies.jpg
"We're food for Mad Max!" *gurgle*

Fire Flip, he'd cost us a chance at the championchip last year...Darko, Arroyo and Ben are gone cause of Flip, and now our last young players left are out of the rotation, i could puke...hiring Flip was the worst decision in the last couple of years, we had the best starting 5 in basketball, a good chance at another championchip and some nice young talent on the bench...only a idiot like Flip could screw that up

the loophole is that Flip gets a fair chance and the team has to burn to the ground before we fire him. that LB incident handcuffed us to Flip for a good couple years. ironic how we and LB fall from quality of the team we had with him in the end. LB deserves some credit for getting what he got out of us, sometimes thats more valuable than a coach making you happy about darko and offense. And Flip only got one out of 2 :). We need a coach with intangibles and hard nosed defense in his mind. Mike woodson isnt an option so i doubt theres much out there.

:lathamjahnke:


PISTONS CORNER: Fine line of playing time
How long is too long for starters?

November 21, 2006

BY KRISTA JAHNKE
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

In an idyllic world, each starting player on the Pistons would play exactly enough time each game to fall into a rhythm without being overworked or risking injury.

In that world, each bench player would get enough minutes to find his rhythm, learn to understand his role and grow as a player.

And the Pistons would win each game. But that's not the way it works.

"You've gotta establish your starters first and foremost," point guard Chauncey Billups said. "That's one thing the first seven, eight games that we didn't do. We were playing minutes, but not playing the right kind of minutes. Now we're playing the right way, and once you do establish that, you don't want to overkill or overdo it -- but at the same time, when you're struggling, you want to win games. It's important to win games."

But it's a fine line between winning one night and staying strong enough to win the next, especially when the Pistons play back-to-back games as they do tonight at Philadelphia and Wednesday against Atlanta.

For instance, Tayshaun Prince played the entire second half against Washington on Friday when, as Prince said, the Pistons were "desperate for a win." But he felt the effects Saturday against Houston.

"My legs were kind of gone," Prince said. "But it's just taking getting used to. That was the first game this season I've played that many minutes, and the next game I was kind of flat. So it's just a situation that it's early in the season, just trying to get used to things."

In recent games, coach Flip Saunders has given veterans Dale Davis and Lindsey Hunter more time than youngsters Jason Maxiell or Carlos Delfino. Saunders said he likes the extra toughness Davis adds and said Hunter's energy and effectiveness on defensive schemes have earned Hunter the No. 2 spot on the point guard depth chart in front of Flip Murray.

If anyone can find a pic of Blakely let me know so I can make an emoticon out of him.


Veteran reserves giving Pistons a boost

Tuesday, November 21, 2006
By A. Sherrod Blakely

PHILADELPHIA -- The Detroit Pistons haven't given up on developing their young players this season.

For the moment, there's something more important at stake: winning games.

It's not just a coincidence that the 5-5 Pistons have reeled off back-to-back wins since head coach Flip Saunders decided to play veteran reserves Lindsey Hunter and Dale Davis ahead of Carlos Delfino, Flip Murray and Jason Maxiell.

While the youngsters weren't entirely to blame for Detroit's 3-5 start, they were having difficulty meshing with the more-established starters.

"Until we get into that rhythm, into a good team rhythm, we've got to rely on those guys (veterans reserves) to start playing," Saunders said.

Guard Chauncey Billups believes the more experienced backups bring "that toughness and that edge that I felt we were probably lacking a little bit."

Billups added, "They're going to come in and play extremely hard every play, and they just bring a different dimension to our team that I feel we need. Obviously, Flip (Saunders) and everyone else felt the same way. You can see the difference out there."

Better defensive play has also been exactly what the Pistons needed. After giving up 100 or more points in their two previous games, the Pistons limited their last two opponents to 91 and 92 points.

In Detroit's 100-91 win against Washington on Friday, Hunter helped pester high-scoring Gilbert Arenas into 7-of-20 shooting from the field. And on Saturday, Davis' ability to bang on Houston's Yao Ming helped wear down the 7-foot-6 center so that he wasn't much of a factor in the fourth quarter of Detroit's 104-92 win, which ended with a 19-7 Pistons run.

"Dale has given us a new persona on the floor, a new toughness," Saunders said. "Our team defense has picked up, our aggression has picked up and we've played good."

After missing the first five games with a hamstring injury, Davis said his conditioning still needs some work.

"I got a little tired (on Saturday), but I was pushing myself to get my legs back and contribute, so the main thing now is to keep pushing," said Davis, who played a season-high 16 minutes against Houston. "As time goes on, I'd like to be in there more and more."

The player who seems most affected by the change has been Delfino.

After playing 10 or more minutes in each of the Pistons' first eight games, Delfino played a total of 10 minutes in the last two.

"Sure, I want to play," Delfino said. "But it's nothing I can do. I continue to work and do my part."

Saunders said the standard used to determine playing time is no different for Delfino than for any other player.

"Guys that are going to play hard when they step on the floor and be productive, those are the guys that are going to play," said Saunders, adding that Antonio McDyess' minutes have also been reduced, in part, because he has also struggled. "This is not a situation where it's just one guy. It's whoever it is. Guys that play well, get opportunities. Just as long as the team is playing well when you're in there."

I like how Zeljko Rebraca, Ratko Varda and Andreas Glyniadakis are all considered "misses". Weren't these guys all really late 2nd rd. picks? Zelly was older when we drafted him and had an ok NBA career. Glyndakis is playing with Seattle (barely). What exactly does he expect of late picks?

We didn't draft Zelly anyways.

He was drafted by Seattle and then his rights were traded to the TWolves. The Raptors got his rights from the TWolves as part of the TOR-MIN-DEN trade that sent Chauncey to Denver. The Raptors then traded him to us for a second rounder that ended up being Rasual Butler.

He forgot some other really good players.

Horace Jenkins is Israel, Peepee Snachos is from Argentina, and Darryl Dawkins was from Lovetron.

lovetron is fairly nice in the winter.

Blakely


Forgetting the future will bring back painful past

PHILADEPHIA — At some point, the Detroit Pistons' unwillingness to fully commit to their young players is going to come back and bite them.

Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess and the team's other veterans can still play at a high level.

But let's face it, folks.

While they're not quite ready for AARP, this team is starting to resemble the post-Bad Boys that struggled throughout most of the 1990s because they never developed a next generation of players following their championship runs.

That's why the best of Carlos Delfino will probably be seen wearing another team's jersey, probably some time this season.

Now Delfino's minutes have fallen considerably the last couple of games, which just so happens to coincide with a two-game Pistons winning streak.

Detroit is winning games, but again, not developing that next generation of players is going to hurt them at some point.

We've already seen it play out this year with them losing Ben Wallace this summer, and their "big man of the future" - Darko Milicic - being shipped out just a few months prior to that.

Along with Darko, they tossed aside their backup point guard of the future in Carlos Arroyo, which might prove even more fatal to the franchise if they don't re-sign Chauncey Billups who will opt out of his contract this summer.

These are some uncertain times the Pistons live in, and the more we see Delfino, and Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson twirling a towel on the bench rather than playing, the more obvious it becomes that this proud, championship-caliber franchise is in for a hard fall ... very soon!

While I don't see us falling on hard times, I could see us in the land of mediocrety if we don't develop our young guys. We'll be the team who always makes the playoffs before losing in the second round every year.

why can't a player simply get a clue and hustle? seriously, that's not a hard concept. What's with lazy players in detroit (and don't get me started on the lazy Lions WR's).

Who? Delfino and Max are two of the biggest "hustlers" on the team. Delfino seems to find himself near every loose ball and every rebound when he's on the floor, and Max does plenty of dirty work. The problem is Flip doesn't play players who don't have 10 years experience in the league it seems. Does Delfino's incosistant jumper mean he's not "hustling"? That's the only thing keeping him out of Flip's rotation (doesn't stop Flip Jr and Lindsey though). I just don't get it. The Maxiell situation is even more mind-blowing. He's arguably the 2nd best big man on the team.

Ill preface this post with Ive only seen 3 games this season so if Im off its based on what Ive seen, and stat lines the rest of the games. Feel free to correct me if you have seen more.

The last couple games it seems that JMax and Delfino get next to nothing. I can understand that with Delfino, I was a pusher of him a lot of last year but Ive been falling off since. JMax... I dont see why we dont play him more. Looks like tonight he got a minute of garbage time (and Del had a few minutes of nothing), but he had some quality time so far this season... by quality time I mean filling in, doing a good job, creating some plays and not fukn up beyond a couple fouls. Super-Dup is cool in my book, but he doesnt get much burn (although it sounds like he has really picked up his game in practice this year). DD, damn straight he got some burn against Yao.. that is why he is here. If he performs well in those situations, more power to him and maybe we will play him more. LH, I was really scared against the Wiz when he started jackin shots but he did a good job overall in that game so Im cool with that too. This all boils down to... JMax shouldnt be on the bench so much, and although I think he is a good player maybe Del isnt going to fit in here. So play JMax more Mr Flip-Twitch and if youre not going to find a spot for Del then talk to Joe and see if you can get someone for him that can contribute for the almighty DP.

if we're going to keep Delfino for garbage time minutes, we might as well ship him off for a future draft pick or something. given his past history (and the promises that Joe D has made to him) he's going to become a malcontent pretty soon.

It seems to me like Delf's minutes have gone up since this article came out. We'll see tonight but I'm confused.

Delfino to me seems to me like he needs his points to come from the flow of the offense. He's not going to come in for instant offense but if he's in there for a 4-5 minute stretch, he can get his. He does seem to be all over the boards, which I love, and he tries to make plays with the ball, even though he turns it over here and there. I like watching him play.

I've seen him in there a lot more because we go small with Tay at the 4 a lot more. Carlos plays SF in that lineup instead of RIP or Flip sliding over.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/global/article_19850.shtml


GLOBAL: Carlos Delfino

By Nikola Olic
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Dec 11, 2006, 05:47

Carlos Delfino was always more than just an excellent basketball player -- he was usually also the youngest basketball player. He was the youngest member of the Argentine national team which won the Olympic gold in Athens and is currently one of the youngest players on the Detroit Pistons roster. He is an explosive guard with both his shots and his movement: he can punish weak screen defense with thunderous reverse dunks or quickly explode for 18 points, as he did late last season against the Bucks. His journey to play in Milwaukee or any other NBA city was similar to that of his countryman Manu Ginobili: start in Argentina, pass through Italy, and finish in the world's strongest league.

When did you first get noticed by the NBA?

"It was when I was on the national team. I was the youngest guy on our under-21 team and with the success with had the scouts started coming up and talking to me. They wanted me to do tryouts and to come and do pre-draft camp. I was at first thinking that I would spend another three years there, getting more experience and getting better. I wanted to get more confidence."

What are the reasons international players are sometimes hesitant to join the NBA?

"You don't have to be scared of the NBA. International basketball is very different and it's very important to adapt. You have to be very strong in your head to make it in this league. Some great players came and they never made it in the NBA. Some players adapt very easy, like Ginobili or Nocioni. You have to come to the league at the right time for you, you have to be strong and you shouldn't be afraid. "

Argentine players adjust very well to the NBA. What are the reasons for that?

"We are what Serbia used to be ten years ago. Everybody wanted to have a Serbian guy on their team. They were strong mentally and very hungry for more. I think we are there now. We are trying to get together a great national team, to build our confidence, to bring more Argentines in the NBA. I think many of our players are more relaxed now, many of our players are already here and they spent some time in the NBA. Serbia is now going through a change in generations, we will do that in three of four years. Its a cycle, its a natural part of basketball."

How does the success you had with your national team compare to the success with the Detroit Pistons?

"I am lucky to play on two great teams. Our national team is trying to keep a good team together as much as possible. Some players are getting older and we have to get new players on the team. I am one of the youngest guys on the team, and I am 24 years old. We came very close to being in the finals at the World championships this summer in Japan. If you look back at where our basketball was 15 years ago, we are doing great. We are working hard to make the change of generations easier."

Detroit has been very successful with you coming off the bench. How would things be different if you were a starter?

"Every player wants to start games. I love the responsibility and having the ball in my hand. But I am not the best guy on the team to handle the ball. We have a great team, I just have to work hard and earn more minutes, I am still young. This is a winning team so I always have opportunities to show my skills."

Delfino is entering just his third year as an NBA player and days of playing for Argentina's OlÃ*mpia de Venado Tuerto are still just a few years behind. As Delfino and his national teammates help define Argentine basketball through their recent successful international showings, they are also helping define South America as a new international basketball hotbed. Recent Pistons' visit to Dallas offered Carlos no Argentine fan support, but a pair of Colombian and Guatemalan fans reminded him of how much he has done for South American basketball in general.

"I am very proud of Argentine basketball and South American basketball altogether. We came so close to the world championship finals, next time I hope we go all the way."

Nikola Olic is head of HOOPSWORLD GLOBAL, providing exclusive coverage of International NBA players. He is a member of the Professional Basketball Writers Association.

What the heck does Milwaukee have to do with anything? So he scored 18 against them. OK. That first paragraph confused me. Interested to read the comments from Delfino, but terrible writing.

Them foreigners gotta learn their broken disjointed English from somewhere.