There will be a ton of speculation on this topic and we won't have the official answer until the SEC championship game is played, but we should keep all the talk in one thread.

This can probably replace the BCS 1-loss teams thread. I just thought it made sense to have a fresh thread that we didn't have to go through several pages of to find responses to the biggest question in college sports.

As of tonight, the candidates are:
Michigan - no remaining games
USC - pending tonight's game and next week v ND
Florida - pending Florida St and SEC championship
Notre Dame - pending USC
Rutgers - losing right now, still has to play West Virginia
Arkansas - pending LSU and SEC championship
West Virginia - pending S Florida and Rutgers

Outside looking in:
Louisville - Only one loss but schedule was their enemy
Wisconsin - see above
Boise State - undefeated but conference was their enemy
Any 2 loss team

By the end of the night this could change. It is certain to change next week.

Cincy beat Rutgers = OUT

Florida beat a DivII team = Fuck you, UF. Div II, this late? Bad form.

Notre Dame = scared of USC

USC crushed Cal's bitch ass = ND next week


Troy looked good in the second half, and their D is getting better by the week. Next week is going to be fun.

I can see how the Michigan fans would call for a rematch. They have every right to do so because they are very good and might be the #2 team.

However, because OSU and Michigan played late in the season...we know who is better. Why have them play again? Let's say UM wins game 2, then they split. Why would UM be the NC then? They split. That wouldn't decide anything.

Florida and USC might not be as good in our minds, but they deserve a chance to prove us wrong if they win out. We already know that OSU is better than Michigan.

If Arkansas loses to LSU then beats Florida, and USC loses to Notre Dame convinceably, who would get in, Notre Dame or Michigan?

If Arkansas loses to LSU then beats Florida, and USC loses to Notre Dame convinceably, who would get in, Notre Dame or Michigan?

I would love to reply but I can't take any post seriously coming from somebody with the name "darkobetterthanmelo." Obviously you are smoking some crack.

Options:
USC
Fla
Ark
ND
UM
and maybe WVU

Everyone else has no shot. Boise deserves to get wasted in the game, assuming they stay undefeated, but because they are both shit, and play in shit they won't make it. I want undefeateds to play though.

Florida will lose, if you watch any of their games, you will see how many flaws they have. They have a freshman QB playing more in the 4th than their senior, jebus christ.

Arkansas has to make up some spots, but it playing the teams to do it.

ND is shit, will lose to USC unless USC plays retarded. They have a shot over UM because of their name, and earlier loss though. UM will have legit gripes though.

USC has 2 tough games, 1 top 10 team, and a rival left, still they 'should' win out.

I can see how the Michigan fans would call for a rematch. They have every right to do so because they are very good and might be the #2 team.

However, because OSU and Michigan played late in the season...we know who is better. Why have them play again? Let's say UM wins game 2, then they split. Why would UM be the NC then? They split. That wouldn't decide anything.

Florida and USC might not be as good in our minds, but they deserve a chance to prove us wrong if they win out. We already know that OSU is better than Michigan.

Do we really know that OSU is better than Michigan for sure? They beat us by 3 at home. After seeing today's game, I think if that game was played in The Big House, Michigan wins. The rematch will be played on a neutral site which would be a great equalizer. They'll both be on a (non-slippery) level playing field and the better team will win.

The fact is, the #1 and #2 teams should play in the National Championship game no matter what, regardless that they are in the same conference. Should Duke not play Carolina in the basketball title game because Duke beat Carolina in the ACC tourney? How about in '85 when Georgetown wins the Big East tourney, and then lost to Villanova in the title game?

I think Michigan is clearly the second best team in the country (at least), and would have a great chance to beat Ohio State on a neutral field.

Let's see how the teams stack up as of right now.

#2 Michigan-lost at #1 Ohio State by 3 points.
#3 Florida-lost to a 2 loss Auburn team
#4 USC-lost to an unranked Oregon State team
#5 Notre Dame-got absolutely killed at home by Michigan
#6 Arkansas-lost 50-14 to USC

Like Corso and Herbstreit say, Ohio State and Michigan are #1 and #1A. They both agree that Michigan would absolutely work over Florida and Arkansas.

Let's put the two best teams in the country, on a neutral field, and see what happens.

Do we really know that OSU is better than Michigan for sure? They beat us by 3 at home. After seeing today's game, I think if that game was played in The Big House, Michigan wins. The rematch will be played on a neutral site which would be a great equalizer. They'll both be on a (non-slippery) level playing field and the better team will win.

The fact is, the #1 and #2 teams should play in the National Championship game no matter what, regardless that they are in the same conference. Should Duke not play Carolina in the basketball title game because Duke beat Carolina in the ACC tourney? How about in '85 when Georgetown wins the Big East tourney, and then lost to Villanova in the title game?

I think Michigan is clearly the second best team in the country (at least), and would have a great chance to beat Ohio State on a neutral field.

Let's see how the teams stack up as of right now.

#2 Michigan-lost at #1 Ohio State by 3 points.
#3 Florida-lost to a 2 loss Auburn team
#4 USC-lost to an unranked Oregon State team
#5 Notre Dame-got absolutely killed at home by Michigan
#6 Arkansas-lost 50-14 to USC

Like Corso and Herbstreit say, Ohio State and Michigan are #1 and #1A. They both agree that Michigan would absolutely work over Florida and Arkansas.

Let's put the two best teams in the country, on a neutral field, and see what happens.

Please do not forget that USC owns the second toughest schedule in the country, is the champion of arguably the second toughest conference in the country, and throughout the season has played 7 teams who have visited the top 25 at some point in the season (Arkansas, Nebraska, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington State, Arizona State, Cal). Two of those teams are playing for conference titles (Arkansas and Nebraska, both manhandled by SC). An 8th, ND, is next. If SC can dominate ND, then does Michigan get another shot?

Michigan.

This is from the other thread, but belongs here as well.

I made a small edit.


Losing by 3 to the #1 team in the country (on the road --G) is a better case than any other team can make, hands down.

No other 1 loss team has their loss against #1.

It should be end of discussion, but of course, it's not.

If Arkansas loses to LSU then beats Florida, and USC loses to Notre Dame convinceably, who would get in, Notre Dame or Michigan?

That's probably what would have to happen. LSU needs to beat Arkansas, Notre Dame needs to beat USC, and Arkansas needs to beat Florida. That would leave Boise State as undefeated, with Michigan, Wisconsin, Louisville, Notre Dame and the Rutgers-West Virginia winner with 1 loss.

Michigan deserves to go if that scenario plays out. I think if USC beats Notre Dame and UCLA, they should go.

Depending on what USC does the next few games, I think they will play Ohio State in the National Champioship. If Michigan had another game they might have a chance, but USC has played a tough schedule and if they run Notre Dame into the ground then I think they will be in the National Championship for sure.

Can somebody please explain to me HOW Floriduh got the galactically feared Western Carolina Catamounts this late in their schedule??????

Wisconsin and Buffalo is less disturbing with the Badgers at #12...but still.

The fact is, the lasting impression in the voters minds of Michigan will be this game, a loss. However, like ND proved last year, you do get credit for a "great loss".

[QUOTE=Moodini31]Do we really know that OSU is better than Michigan for sure? They beat us by 3 at home. After seeing today's game, I think if that game was played in The Big House, Michigan wins. The rematch will be played on a neutral site which would be a great equalizer. They'll both be on a (non-slippery) level playing field and the better team will win.
QUOTE]

Yes, we do know that Moodini. This one wasn't as close as it seemed. Ohio State was in control the entire game. The only thing that put this game on the line was the center for OSU giving up the ball twice and a phantom pass interference call.

I hope that slippery reference wasn't an excuse. Are you saying the better team didn't win this time because of the field? I really hope not.

It's not an excuse, but it could be. Not a deciding factor in the game, but keep in mind that OSU has played on their own terrible field all season. It was redone because it was so bad, and the re-do didn't make it any better. Yes, both teams had to play on it. One team is used to it and knows how to cut on it without falling down.

OSU is faster and could outrun Michigan on a real field, no doubt. But how many times did you see OSU guys fall down when the turf went out from under them? You didn't. How many times for Michigan? At least a dozen. Again, not an excuse, but why not try it again on a real field and see?

Bottom line is that regardless of timing everyone has their loss on their resume. Michigan's loss is EASILY the most impressive. If Ohio State beats them again, congrats. They proved themselves. But why is everyone so worried about playing this game otherwise? If they are clearly the #1, why does it matter?

If USC is clearly #2, how do they lose to a 4 loss Oregon State team?
Florida at least lost to a ranked team, but they did it by 10.
Arkansas also lost to an impressive team, USC, but did so by freaking 36 points!
Obviously we know who Notre Dame lost to and how bad it was.

No other team lost to a top 10 team by less than a TD, much less the the #1 by a FG.

It's not an excuse, but it could be. Not a deciding factor in the game, but keep in mind that OSU has played on their own terrible field all season. It was redone because it was so bad, and the re-do didn't make it any better. Yes, both teams had to play on it. One team is used to it and knows how to cut on it without falling down.

OSU is faster and could outrun Michigan on a real field, no doubt. But how many times did you see OSU guys fall down when the turf went out from under them? You didn't. How many times for Michigan? At least a dozen. Again, not an excuse, but why not try it again on a real field and see?

Bottom line is that regardless of timing everyone has their loss on their resume. Michigan's loss is EASILY the most impressive. If Ohio State beats them again, congrats. They proved themselves. But why is everyone so worried about playing this game otherwise? If they are clearly the #1, why does it matter?

If USC is clearly #2, how do they lose to a 4 loss Oregon State team?
Florida at least lost to a ranked team, but they did it by 10.
Arkansas also lost to an impressive team, USC, but did so by freaking 36 points!
Obviously we know who Notre Dame lost to and how bad it was.

No other team lost to a top 10 team by less than a TD, much less the the #1 by a FG.

The field huh. Okay, I'll put that one on the list.

It's not an excuse, but it could be. Not a deciding factor in the game, but keep in mind that OSU has played on their own terrible field all season. It was redone because it was so bad, and the re-do didn't make it any better. Yes, both teams had to play on it. One team is used to it and knows how to cut on it without falling down.

OSU is faster and could outrun Michigan on a real field, no doubt. But how many times did you see OSU guys fall down when the turf went out from under them? You didn't. How many times for Michigan? At least a dozen. Again, not an excuse, but why not try it again on a real field and see?

Bottom line is that regardless of timing everyone has their loss on their resume. Michigan's loss is EASILY the most impressive. If Ohio State beats them again, congrats. They proved themselves. But why is everyone so worried about playing this game otherwise? If they are clearly the #1, why does it matter?

If USC is clearly #2, how do they lose to a 4 loss Oregon State team?
Florida at least lost to a ranked team, but they did it by 10.
Arkansas also lost to an impressive team, USC, but did so by freaking 36 points!
Obviously we know who Notre Dame lost to and how bad it was.

No other team lost to a top 10 team by less than a TD, much less the the #1 by a FG.

Ball State?

Which is worse?

Coming down to the last play of the game at home versus Ball St.
or
Oregon State loss on the road.

Which is worse?

Coming down to the last play of the game at home versus Ball St.
or
Oregon State loss on the road.

Oregon State and Arizona are up-and-coming teams that could be weekly Top 25 tenants very soon (OState tasted the top 25 for a couple of weeks this season).

Ball State? Well, they have Letterman.

Which is worse?

Coming down to the last play of the game at home versus Ball St.
or
Oregon State loss on the road.

Michigan's "bye week". Gave up 9 fluke points on turnovers, were still up 31-12, then pulled the starters.

Don't forget USC only beat Washington and Washington State by 6 each. Neither is above .500.

And the field ranks right up there with the shot clock and the travel Mr. I don't complain.

Don't forget USC only beat Washington and Washington State by 6 each. Neither is above .500.

And the field ranks right up there with the shot clock and the travel Mr. I don't complain.

I complain all the time. However, the Michigan bball loss last year was the only time I can remember entirely blaiming a loss on something other than my team. You generally blaim a loss on everything other than your team.

The field was lowsy, but I suppose it's a detriment to both teams. I wonder if OSU got to pratice on it at all. U of M slipped a lot more, but that could be due to OSU's overall speed. I can't blame the loss on the field, we just missed tackles on our own. But I do think they should not have changed the grass.

It's simple. If USC wins out, they deserve the title shot. Otherwise it should be U of M. That's my opinion.

The field was lowsy, but I suppose it's a detriment to both teams. I wonder if OSU got to pratice on it at all. U of M slipped a lot more, but that could be due to OSU's overall speed. I can't blame the loss on the field, we just missed tackles on our own. But I do think they should not have changed the grass.

They stated during the game that OSU had not stepped onto the field until Sat. when Michigan did. Regardless, I'm over this arguing stuff.

I agree with Chris.

I agree too. If USC wins out, they'll have wins against #5 Arkansas, Nebraska, Oregon, #22 Cal, and #6 UCLA, which is a better list of wins than Michigan has.

But, if USC loses, U-M deserves to go.

I agree too. If USC wins out, they'll have wins against #5 Notre Dame, Nebraska, Oregon, #22 Cal, and #6 Arkansas, which is a better list of wins than Michigan has.

But, if USC loses, U-M deserves to go.

UCLA's only #6 is in women's field hockey.:thumbsup:

UCLA's only #6 is in women's field hockey.:thumbsup:

Dank! I meant #6 Notre Dame.[smilie=wreck.gif]

Dank! I meant #6 Notre Dame.[smilie=wreck.gif]
Here's what I think:

USC is peaking at the right time. Booty is finally making better decisions, the young RB's are finding their groove, and the D is fucking dominating. ND, on the other hand, has been less than impressive as of late against subpar opponents, and their strength of schedule absolutely sucks (aside from PSU and Michigan). They almost lost to MSU, UCLA, and allowed Stanford to ring up a whopping 10 points on them (USC shut out Stanford), and a shitty Tar Heel team 26.

USC is sharp because of their quality of opponents. Either ND must have the game of their lives, or USC must turn the ball over quite a bit, for Notre Dame to win.

IMO, the real threat is a UCLA trap game.

A side note: North Carolina has THE best name for an incoming recruit: Quantavius Sturdivant

I agree too. If USC wins out, they'll have wins against #5 Arkansas, Nebraska, Oregon, #22 Cal, and #6 UCLA, which is a better list of wins than Michigan has.

But, if USC loses, U-M deserves to go.

I give you props for admitting this.

Okay, I hinted at this before but I want to get this out there because it is bugging me. A guy on the radio made all of these points today and I was happy to finally hear it.

Did Michigan play very well? Hell yes. Am I saying they are way worse than OSU? No!

But, the thing that I'm tired of is Michigan fans clinging to this "we only lost by 3" thing. Instead of getting defensive and clinging to the final score, you have to be honest with yourselves. OSU's center provided at least a two score swing in this game. You guys know that. And I'm not going to get into a debate about the pass interference. But, we all know it was an 11 point game before the late score. I felt like their were two points in the game where it almost gone blown open. I think it was one of those misleading scores. And I think you guys might admit that a bit if you are really honest about it.

Now, Michigan did have to take advantage of the terrible snaps, etc. So credit to them for doing so. That's why they are a good team. But I would like see an end to the "we only lost by 3" thing, because I think deep down we know it didn't reflect what took place.

That's one of the dumbest things I've heard. Isn't the center part of their team? What, his part in the game doesn't count? LMFAO. That's like a Michigan fan saying that they really won, if Massey hadn't missed a block in the third, Hart would of broken one for a TD instead of having to punt.

Come on now.

Yeah Tre I gotta weigh in on that too. UM did get some gifts from the OSU center, but they are equal to any mistake on any field. A fumble is a fumble regardless of who it comes from. Im gonna go with the cliche 'A chain is only as strong as its weakest link' here. Whats more messed up is that the center's hand wasnt even broken anymore so for superstition reasons, OSU kept the cast on him since he was 'used to that'. Thats just a dumb coaching move so you can put it on them as much as the center. With that said, I agree that USC undefeated means title shot but if they lose one UM is back in.

The LB responsible for plugging the gap on the up the middle run was also responsible for two LONG scores.
I'm sure a lot of this sounds like same old Michigan fan to you, but it's true. Turnovers, penalties, missed assignments, all part of the game. What if Michigan had one more first down at the end of the first half? Maybe they manage a FG and don't allow time for OSU to score again. Then we're talking 21-17 at the half instead of 28-14. You seriously MUST take everything into consideration. If Michigan had stopped them on the last drive from getting a first down and managed a long play followed by a FG sending it into OT and eventually winning (momentum was on their side) would it matter that the score didn't reflect most of the game?
Talk about "could have put away" all you want. State could have put away Notre Dame. Northwestern could have put away State. Those final scores don't necessarily tell the whole story either, but at the end of the day the final score is all you have.
Boston College won last weekend with 3 defensive TD's to likely wrap up the ACC (still have the championship), but nobody is saying they don't deserve the game because of fumbles.
Let's talk about the Crable play. Gave OSU a first down when they were goping to have to punt. Mention the pass interference all you want but listen to OSU homer Herbstreit who said to all OSU fans that it was an obvious call that will be made every time. If that DB plays it differently, it might be 6 for Manningham instead of 15 yards. How could that have changed the game? We'll never know because the two TEAMS did what they did. Mistakes, penalties, everything else was consistent between the two teams so that neither can complain. Great game, the greatest of the year. THAT's why it would be a shame not to see a neutral field rematch.

I don't know if anyone here listens to Erik Kuselias on ESPN Radio (afternoons), but he's really hammering home that there should be a rematch.

He's got it down to a simple question.

"Do you believe that the national championship game should be between the two best teams?"

If you do, then we need a rematch.

. Mention the pass interference all you want but listen to OSU homer Herbstreit who said to all OSU fans that it was an obvious call that will be made every time..

He may have said that, but he was bullshitting. There was NO contact on that pass interference. Everyone in the bar I was in said something along the lines of "That was bad, but we'll take it". Usually for pass interference you should touch the other player more than the ball, JMO.

There is a big difference between forced turnovers and a center air mailing snaps bringing the game closer than it was.

I said I didn't want to talk pass interference and bitch about calls, but apparantly Jethro wants to.

Jethro, if you even believe he touched the Michigan WR, than you need glasses. Quit trying to win an argument and be honest, the call wasn't even close.

Jethro, if you even believe he touched the Michigan WR, than you need glasses. Quit trying to win an argument and be honest, the call wasn't even close.

If he had ever turned his head back to make a play on the ball, there wouldn't have been a flag.

If he had ever turned his head back to make a play on the ball, there wouldn't have been a flag.

Agreed, but there is no rule that states you must be looking at the football at all times or it is interference.

That defender played the corner position absolutely perfect. Coaches teach all corners to not look at the ball, but play the defender. As long as no contact is made, it is perfect position.

It was just a late 4th and 16 stupid call that made the game look close when it was really a 2 score game.

It's obvious that you don't coach football. And perhaps too many years of watching State football has warped how you see things. Rule #2 for pass intereference calls is that you have to turn your head or you'll get called. (rule #1 is hooking with the back hand when batting with the front)

It's obvious that you don't coach football. And perhaps too many years of watching State football has warped how you see things. Rule #2 for pass intereference calls is that you have to turn your head or you'll get called. (rule #1 is hooking with the back hand when batting with the front)
Rule#4 in basketball.

Don't call a timeout when you're out of timeouts.

http://static.flickr.com/27/93628583_d301537c0f_m.jpg

"Kobe" McLain's stat line:
22 points, 8 rebounds, and 1 assist

Excellent use of something that has nothing to do with the topic.

By the way, that play never happened, remember? Because Chris Webber never went to Michigan. At least that's what the official record says.

Excellent use of something that has nothing to do with the topic.

By the way, that play never happened, remember? Because Chris Webber never went to Michigan. At least that's what the official record says.


Records are overrated.[smilie=llama_banan:

Well, Arkansas is out of the picture. They could still be a factor though, if they can knock off Florida in the SEC championship game. With a backfield of McFadden and Jones, they're a threat to beat anyone. Their defense needs to be a bit stronger and their QB play has to be better than the horrible day Casey Dick had yesterday. Really surprised Mustain never made an appearance yesterday. They should counter Florida's 2 QB setup with one of their own. Tebow vs Mustain is quite a matchup. 2 of the highest rated prospects from last season. The top dual threat QB vs the top pro-style QB. Should be a good game either way.

Few if any people were giving WVU a chance as the 1-loss teams, but any chance they might have had is gone now following a loss to South Florida. I still think they'll probably beat Rutgers, dropping them from the ranks of the 1-loss teams as well.

Lorenzo Booker is a waste of 4.33 40 speed. One of the more overrated prospects in recent years.

It's obvious that you don't coach football. And perhaps too many years of watching State football has warped how you see things. Rule #2 for pass intereference calls is that you have to turn your head or you'll get called. (rule #1 is hooking with the back hand when batting with the front)

Wow, are you serious? I could come really strong right now when challenging my football knowledge but I'm going to lay off so that this doesn't get out of hand.

If you disagree with the fact that coaches around the country all teach their corners to look at their man and not back at the quarterback, then you need to do a little reading. That is about as common knowledge as bball coaches teaching their kids to box out. I'm right on point with that you and you can check into it. It's obvious that I don't coach football? Well, if you didn't know that corners were taught to play the man and not look back, than its obvious you don't know much about football.

In regards to your phantom #2 rule for pass interference, you are right in the fact that a corner will get called if he's not looking back. BUT...that's only if he ends up making contact with the man. YOU DON'T GET CALLED FOR PASS INTERENCE AUTOMATICALLY BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT LOOKING BACK, YOU HAVE TO MAKE CONTACT.

If you don't know that, than I don't even know what to tell you.

YOU DON'T GET CALLED FOR PASS INTERENCE AUTOMATICALLY BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT LOOKING BACK, YOU HAVE TO MAKE CONTACT.

I believe the rule is you have to also intentionally interfere with the catch attempt, like flailing your arms around or placing your hand in the receiver's face to impede his sight.

Otherwise, you must play the ball, not the man.

If a lot of coaches are teaching their players that, then a lot of coaches are teaching their players to have penalties called against them.

Look, regardless of what the rule states or what coaches tell their players, you have to coach to the refs. I know what the refs have consistantly called and so did Herbstreit. People say he was kidding, but rewind the tape if you have it. He wasn't joking. He was adamant. Right or not, that's what the call will be every single time.

If a lot of coaches are teaching their players that, then a lot of coaches are teaching their players to have penalties called against them.

Look, regardless of what the rule states or what coaches tell their players, you have to coach to the refs. I know what the refs have consistantly called and so did Herbstreit. People say he was kidding, but rewind the tape if you have it. He wasn't joking. He was adamant. Right or not, that's what the call will be every single time.

Herbstreit said that because he blatantly attempts to be non biased when doing games. I give him props for that. However, everybody and their brother saw the play dude. You aren't convincing anybody. He didn't even touch the receiver. Regardless, it doesn't matter. We still know who the best team is.

I had two beliefs prior to the USC-ND game.
(1) I thought Michigan "probably" was the second best team.
(2) USC deserved to play in the National Championship game because Michigan had their chance to prove they were #1 and USC's resume was better.

I still believe the second one, but after today's game I truly believe USC is the second best team in the country (if not the best) and they also deserve the NC game. I had not watched this team enough this year. Their defense is the fastest D I've seen this year! And they are the hardest hitting defense I've seen this year. This D just crushes its opponents. Michigan's D is also great, just at different things. On top of that, Booty is becoming the next USC star quarterback and those WR's for USC are sick!

I did not like USC's chances, but they just came out and crushed ND. Not only have they crushed the Irish, they also crushed a very very good Arkansas team earlier in the year. That Oregon State game was a fluke. We definately have our 2nd best team (if not the best).

The Oregon State game wasn't exactly a fluke. To start the year, this was a very young and inexperienced team on both sides of the ball. I think the OSU game woke them up.

I'm still not a huge fan of JD Booty, but he's getting better.

And the defense IS absolutely sick. Worse yet...they're getting better by the week.

OK Tre, slow down and take the blinders off.

We learned one major thing from this game. Notre Dame was VASTLY overrated. Sure their offense is (somewhat) effective, but their defense, in particular their pass defense was downright laughable. ND has 0 quality wins and got to #5 in the country by playing no one.....and I mean no one. So this is by no means an amazing victory for USC.

You say USC's defense is the fastest and the hardest hitting D you've seen all year? Did you see Michigan's defense this year? Did you see the hits that David Harris was putting on people? Did you see how many QB's Michigan knocked out of games? Let's compare the 2 teams vs. ND. Quinn went for 274 and 3 TD's and 0 Int's vs. USC. Vs. Michigan he had 234, 3 TD's, 3 Int's, (one for a touchdown), lost a fumble (that was returned for a TD) and was getting up off the turf (often stuck in his facemask) after every time he dropped back to pass.

Let's compare the 2 teams that have the most legitamate case to play the Bucks. USC lost to an unranked Oregon State team, and beat Notre Dame by 20 at home. Michigan lost to #1 Ohio State on the road by 3 points, and beat Notre Dame by 26 on the road. Who do you think is #2? I think it's pretty obvious.

Let's compare the 2 teams that have the most legitamate case to play the Bucks. USC lost to an unranked Oregon State team, and beat Notre Dame by 20 at home. Michigan lost to #1 Ohio State on the road by 3 points, and beat Notre Dame by 26 on the road. Who do you think is #2? I think it's pretty obvious.

yeah

Let's compare the 2 teams that have the most legitamate case to play the Bucks. USC lost to an unranked Oregon State team, and beat Notre Dame by 20 at home. Michigan lost to #1 Ohio State on the road by 3 points, and beat Notre Dame by 26 on the road. Who do you think is #2? I think it's pretty obvious. USC.
Agreed.

OK Tre, slow down and take the blinders off.

We learned one major thing from this game. Notre Dame was VASTLY overrated. Sure their offense is (somewhat) effective, but their defense, in particular their pass defense was downright laughable. ND has 0 quality wins and got to #5 in the country by playing no one.....and I mean no one. So this is by no means an amazing victory for USC.

You say USC's defense is the fastest and the hardest hitting D you've seen all year? Did you see Michigan's defense this year? Did you see the hits that David Harris was putting on people? Did you see how many QB's Michigan knocked out of games? Let's compare the 2 teams vs. ND. Quinn went for 274 and 3 TD's and 0 Int's vs. USC. Vs. Michigan he had 234, 3 TD's, 3 Int's, (one for a touchdown), lost a fumble (that was returned for a TD) and was getting up off the turf (often stuck in his facemask) after every time he dropped back to pass.

Let's compare the 2 teams that have the most legitamate case to play the Bucks. USC lost to an unranked Oregon State team, and beat Notre Dame by 20 at home. Michigan lost to #1 Ohio State on the road by 3 points, and beat Notre Dame by 26 on the road. Who do you think is #2? I think it's pretty obvious.

Who has the blinders on? The rest of the country believes USC is the best team. Look at the polls. Listen to the sports talk shows. Everybody is now convinced USC is #2. Why do I have the blinders on, you are a Michigan fan disagreeing with the countries coaches!

Denny made a great point, this team was EXTREMELY young early in the year. They are getting scary good. Yes, I watched every single Michigan game. I said they are good at different things. They have a much better pass rush than USC. However, USC hits harder and they are faster. Many football guys on ESPN, Fox Sports made the exact same point in that USC is the nations fastest and hardest hitting defense.

It is not about who you lost to. It is about who you beat. And you said it yourself, if USC won...you said their resume is better and they should go. Not only did they win, they dominated. Don't try one of your flip flops now.

I agree too. If USC wins out, they'll have wins against #5 Arkansas, Nebraska, Oregon, #22 Cal, and #6 UCLA, which is a better list of wins than Michigan has.

But, if USC loses, U-M deserves to go.

Sound the Dickie V voice, FLIP FLOP CITY BAAAABY!

Funny thing is that the same people who think UM-OSU rematch is unfair to OSU are saying that UM-ND rematch would be a good game. WTF?

USC is definitely blossoming® at the right time.

Awaiting Glenn's "copyright infringement" reply.

Tick tock...tick tock.


This is the last thing I'm going to say about this, or not. While Floriduh is hammering Westerm Carolina, and Michigan is slugging it out with Ball State, both late season games against "beyond weak" opponents, SC is scheduling Notre dame as it's final non-conference game of the year. You really can't control how good or how bad your conference is going to be year in and year out, but you CAN control your non-conference schedule. Fact -- all three of USC's non-conference opponents are currently Top 20 teams, two of which are playing for major conference championships.

Yes, SC lost to OState, but they also almost lost to Oregon State in 2004 (the fog game) as well as a close win vs. Stanford that year AND a close one against UCLA, all mediocre teams. Then, of course, they go out and absolutely hammer Oklahoma for the title. Interestingly, that close shave against OSU came in early November, followed by two routs of Arizona and ND. This time around, they LOSE to the Beavers, then rout Oregon, Cal, and Notre Dame, all top 20 teams at their respective times. Throw in this little factoid -- Pete Carroll has NEVER lost in the month of November... NEVER. That tells you two things: One, he's never lost to Notre Dame; and two, his teams grow better as the season grows older.

Although I'm an SC homer, I really thought that next year was going to be their time. This year was supposed to be a rebuilding season, maybe 10-2 or 9-3, the Rose Bowl if they're lucky (Cal was the heavy fav coming into this season, followed by Oregon). But it's not SC's fault that top 10 teams this year have been playing down to their opponents. It's also not SC's fault that the genuises at the Big10 scheduled OSU/UM as both teams' final game -- with two weeks of season to go.

Well if UM was going to get fucked, I'm just glad it wasn't by Notre Dame.

Wait, by losing, I think Notre Dame actually fucked us anyways.

They could have at least used some KY.

The fact that there is no playoff system in college football is the biggest farce in sports, even worse than NBA officiating.

Vitale said it best this a.m. (believe it or not). The fact that Michigan has to wait until Sunday morning to see if a computer has selected them to play for the national championship is a complete joke.

Vitale is an idiot and no its not a joke.

I read an interesting point of view on this today:


There is no denying that Southern California’s 44-24 win over Notre Dame on Saturday night was dominating. But as the Bowl Championship Series computers whirred and spit out the Trojans as the new No. 2 team in the land Sunday night, it dawned on me – we now have an apples-to-apples comparison of USC and No. 3 Michigan – the teams’ performances against the Fighting Irish, their lone common opponent.
As the debate over who should face No. 1 Ohio State in the BCS title game on Jan. 8 supposedly comes to “style points,” what we have here is some substance.
A simple study of the boxscores shows the Wolverines were even more demonstrative in dismantling Notre Dame, and by a fairly significant margin.
Michigan had the edge over USC against Notre Dame in the following categories:


Points for: 47-44 (3).
Points against: 21-24 (3).
Total yards allowed: 273-404 (131).
Rushing yards allowed: 32-130 (98).
Passing yards allowed: 241-274 (33).
Turnovers forced: 5-1 (4).
Rushing yards: 148-139 (9) USC, meanwhile held slight edges in just two categories:

Net offensive yards: 404-368 (36).
Passing yards: 265-220 (45).
The evidence seems pretty empirical, especially when you factor in that the Wolverines’ lone loss came by three points at top-ranked Ohio State (12-0), while the Trojans lost at unranked Oregon State (8-4) by two.
Strength of schedule? USC faced 10 teams that will play in bowls, Michigan seven.
As you do the math, it seems clear that the Maize and Blue should be making their way to the desert for a date with the Buckeyes, not the Cardinal and Gold.
Crazy talk, I know. Next, I’ll be advocating a playoff to determine the champion, you know the way it’s done in every other division of college football.

Sound the Dickie V voice, FLIP FLOP CITY BAAAABY!

I just think Michigan is the second best team in the country after seeing the way we beat the jokesters from ND on the road and how USC beat them at home.

The system sucks.....It's time for a freaking playoff. What is it going to take?

The system sucks.....It's time for a freaking playoff. What is it going to take?

Crowning a fluky national champion under the current system (like Boise State or Rutgers) would probably do it.

I knew you'd change your tune Moodini because you are a Michigan guy and you aren't going to admit somebody else should be there.

Keep in mind that USC played ND at a different point in the season than UM. If UM played ND now, who knows how it would turn out. UM would win, but by how much? Comparing a 20 pt win to a 26 point win is just stupid.

Lets face it, nobody knows who the #2 team is because we don't play to settle it. College Football should take a tip from College Basketball and ignite the pandamonium that is the NCAA tournament.

When you really break it down though, we're arguing about #2. SI said it best: Ohio State: The best. Period.

Vitale is an idiot and no its not a joke.

Fool feels like its not a joke to have to rely on computers to decide a Championship game.

I guess his name is fitting.

One thing I forgot to mention is Michigan's schedule. I don't fault them for 3 easy non conference games outside of ND, but had they scheduled somebody solid, things might be different.

USC also had ND, but they had a game like Nebraska which is very solid. That might have been a difference maker.

I agree, I wish U of M played a power conference team...but oh well. I still don't think beating Nebraska is enough. not when U of M beat ND on the road, when they were undefeated and sky high...and only lost to the #1 team on the road by 3 points. I'm not a fan of rematches, but I still think U of M is the second best team in football. Period.

If I didn't already want UCLA to upset USC, I want it even more now just so I can see Tre crawl under a rock on this issue.

Biggest USC fan on WTF next to Denny (all of a sudden).

If I didn't already want UCLA to upset USC, I want it even more now just so I can see Tre crawl under a rock on this issue.

Biggest USC fan on WTF next to Denny (all of a sudden).
Via indirect hatred, not unconditional love.http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0024.gif

If I didn't already want UCLA to upset USC, I want it even more now just so I can see Tre crawl under a rock on this issue.

Biggest USC fan on WTF next to Denny (all of a sudden).

I want USC to win even more so that you'll shut the fuck up and crawl under a rock.

I want UCLA to win even more so that you'll shut the fuck up and crawl under a rock.

Nice edit, lol.

typo, corrected it the second after posting it. Do you refresh every second?

Re-read my post, I was just talking about "this issue" and now you are coming out all angry and shit.

I pointed out the edit because it was obviously a typo, but a funny one nonetheless. I also wanted to see if you were going to lie about it and good for you, you didn't.

I'm just busting your balls a bit for jumping on the "anybody but U of M" bandwagon. Sounds like you are taking this too personally.

Should I wait a few minutes before posting this?

All I know is, when OSU destroys USC and Michigan kicks the shit out of whoever they play in the Rose Bowl, I'll get a little satisfaction that once again the BCS fucked up.

Oh well, at least Michigan won't lose twice to OSU and they'll be ranked #2 at the end of the year - not a bad year at all.

Fool feels like its not a joke to have to rely on computers to decide a Championship game.

I guess his name is fitting.

The reason computers were introduced is because people complained that the coaches and writer polls were too biased. Hence an unbiased formula. Only thing is that doesn't produce the outcome everyone wants either so now there is talk about how silly it is for machines to matter.

Maybe I should pretend, like Glenn and Tre, that it is actually machines making the decisions and not the BCS powers that be that create the formula that the machines simply carry out after every week of football.

You are right Glenn and Tre, having an attempt at a non-biased formula as a factor in guessing who the best team is (since there is no playoff to truly show who it is) is terribly more ridiculous than simply letting the coaches, writers (who all have a stake in who plays who) decide.

Next lets ask Matt Millen if he thinks he should keep his job.

Having the coaches input on this makes it even worse. They need to change that ASAP, IMO.

These guys don't watch any games but their own and those of their future opponents. Most times they just have somebody fill their ballots out for them (see Tressel, Jim) and put their team as high as they can get away with.

(I had to laugh at being villanized in a group of two, with my compadre Tre, though.)

I don't "blame the computers" as you assert, I just think the whole premise of not settling the issue on the field is silly.

Of course, even if they have a playoff system, there will need to be some criteria to discern which the 4, 8 or 16 teams would be involved, so the debate continues...

(I had to laugh at being villanized in a group of two, with my compadre Tre, though.)
That just shows you how bad a take your position was.

Not to belabor the point, but all I was doing was pointing out how silly it is that it's not settled on the field.

You think that position is weak?

No, but if you point really was "why isn't there a playoff", I think its swat-worthy.

No, but if you point really was "why isn't there a playoff", I think its swat-worthy.

Why the hell would that be swatworthy? Playoff is the best thing that could happen to football.

You think my stance is bad? You are arguing in favor of the BCS. I don't know whether to laugh or puke.

Its swat-worthy because its outside the scope of the thread "Who will play OSU", because its old and been done, and because it doesn't allow for argument (everyone agrees playoffs are better).

This was already explained in my previous post (see the part about "guessing"). If you need me to repeat it a second time, just let me know.

Fool/DrTre11 = the new Gutz/Steve[smilie=llama_banan:

Looks like everyone is gearing up for the Michigan - LSU Rose Bowl.

Looks like everyone is gearing up for the Michigan - LSU Rose Bowl.

Very juicy matchup, scary to me.

I'm actually not too scared by it. Doucet left the field on a stretcher in his last game - not sure if he's cleared to play or not. LSU doesn't have much of a run game. At least not a true featured back. All they need to do is pressure Russell and establish the running game themselves. I think that's a formula they can live up to. If you look at the Arkansas game, the Razorbacks could have won that game with anything resembling a passing game. Sadly for them, Casey Dick was 3 of 92 passing.

theres alot of reasons why the present bowl system is preferable, but it all boils down to:

if it aint broke, don't fix it. i'd have to say college ball is doing alright, no need to ruin the only sport left with rivalrys by adding a playoff.

Well, here's what it comes down to. It is broke. Even with the USC loss, all we're going to hear are arguments between Michigan, Florida and Louisville about who deserves to play Ohio State - and they all have some sort of argument. Louisville less than the others, but all have an argument. Meanwhile, we could have a playoff in which Ohio State plays Louisville, Florida plays Michigan, and then the winners play each other.

By the way, LSU fans have to be ticked right now. Many already bought tickets. Maybe they still play in the Rose Bowl against USC, but that's only if Michigan gets the nod for the rematch. If Florida gets the nod, it's USC-Michigan in the Rose Bowl like the old days. As strange as it sounds, I think Michigan matches up much better against Ohio State than they do against USC.