"Right now, Michigan State is up, Michigan down, Kansas up, Carolina same and Ohio State down.

The kid likes all five, but I'm thinking his top choices are Michigan or Carolina... AAU coaches favor Michigan State, Father and a few other acquiantances favor Sparty where Mother favors Michigan or Ohio State.

Although my contention is that one of the Big Ten schools will win out, no one is out of this race of these five. Not Kansas, not Ohio State, not UNC, not Michigan, they're all going to be factors for different reasons."

This is the latest from a guy who posts on Scout UM premium, but is an OSU fan and he shares info with UM.

Delvon you mean?

Anyway I see it coming down to MSU or UNC. I think that he's going to go to a 'power', and it is going to come down to how his parents feel, and how far away he is willing to go.

I see Michigan getting 3rd, OSU 4th, and KU 5th. I think that Michigan has done the best personally with him, but doesn't have the program, facilities, or basketball focus to actually bring him in. Also, I don't think that he'll want the bad pub. of going to the school that got sighted on a violation in recruiting him.

I've heard that he really isn't feeling OSU, and that he just feels pressure to leave them on the list.

Obviously, I'm not Delvon, so I don't really know, but we shall find out in time.

That violation was retracted because Delvon (yeah with the L) said it didnt happen. At least that is what I remember seeing later on about that.

If and it is a big if...UM makes the tourney I feel comfortable knowing that Delvon will pick UM.

Making 1 tourny in a decade gets you a top 5 recruit???

Gimme some of that shit.

If you make the sweet 16 - 50/50, Elite 8 65/35, Final Four 80/20.

I can only tell you what people who are around the situation say.

Take it for what it is worth. BTW these comments are not just from UM mods, but OSU mods also.

And from MSU, UM, and OSU mods I've heard that it is MSU's to lose, though UNC is making up a lot of ground fast, but Roe's parents are still leaning towards MSU.

I guess you missed the post where his Mom likes UM and OSU more than the other schools. His father is with State.

All basketball players that MSU is involved with are theirs to lose. I hear the same thing from UM football people. Funny how things work.

I guess you missed the post where his Mom likes UM and OSU more than the other schools. His father is with State.

All basketball players that MSU is involved with are theirs to lose. I hear the same thing from UM football people. Funny how things work.

I agree, at least to a certain extent. I've heard how Horford, Hairston, Crawford, and more were MSU 'locks', but I am hearing this Roe stuff from the same people that said Morgan was an MSU lean when everyone just assumed he was an OSU lock, and didn't think MSU was really going after him.

These are people that seem to know their state of Ohio stuff, and have actually forseen things anti-MSU, including much of the Thad-5 + future.

Does that mean that they are right, now? Not at all. Do I trust them more then most any other prognosticator out there, at least for this I do.

From a Michigan perspective, all I have is hope. Michigan certainly deserves him. They've been watching him longer than anyone and they've done a lot for him (all within what is legal). That being said, in the end I just have my fingers crossed. The odds are stacked against them because anywhere there's recruiting, the rich tend to get richer. Basically, Michigan is in with a half dozen big men in that class (all top 50 guys). If they can get one, good. If they can get 2, great. If one of them is Roe, awesome.

If Michigan makes the tournament, it will be huge for the program. Shows players that they are back to the point of making the tourneys.

Getting Manny Harris and Legin were huge.

Only glaring weakness UM has this year is PG and that is the only strength that MSU has. I am not saying UM will take 2 from MSU, but this is certainly the season to do so.

Yeah, the guys I am hearing stuff about are pretty much accurate. As stated, MSU is in front for now, but things are fluid in the world of college BB recruiting.

While people continue to talk about PG as a weakness for UM, I object. I think size is a weakness for them. Courtney Sims will have to grow some testicles if they are to have a chance. Losing Brown will hurt them a lot defensively, and Hunter was good for something as well. That's two big bodies gone. After Sims the only size left is Petway, who has the mental ability of a Spartan football player returning kicks.
Meanwhile, I think Jerret Smith is under-rated. I think he will do a decent job of getting the ball to guys in position to score.
Now obviously the lack of a big man actually helps Michigan in their recruiting of big men. While most of these guys are looking at starting as true freshmen anyhow, it's a guarantee at Michigan. While Michigan also has Legion and Manny in that class, I think Grady will be solid in distributing the ball and playing defense. A true PG.

I guess I forgot about Zach Gibson and Epke Udoh (Udoh for depth this year, Gibson next year) but I don't think any recruits really consider either of those guys a threat against starting.

By the way, can anyone share some news about the Maize and Blue Scrimmage yesterday?

Jevohn Shepherd - It was Strong day for the athletic Canadian. He was more aggressive with the basketball, as evidenced by a couple of nice drives to the hoop that he finished with lay-ups. However, his best play came on a drive that didn't go all of the way to the rim. After receiving a pass on the right wing Shepherd made a strong move toward tin. A help defender slid into his path to take the charge, but Shepherd adjusted by slowing his momentum and pulling up for a leaner that he completed off the glass. That' was clearly a move that he doesn't make one year ago at this time. He didn't attempt any jumpers from my recollection, but it's not a stretch to say that his shot will look better if he is truly more comfortable on the court this season…and Saturday he looked comfortable.

Jerret Smith - The sophomore point guard had a nice day. He had a couple of open threes, of which he nailed one. He also did a nice job of running his team. Courtney Sims got at least two easy baskets courtesy of a Smith penetrate-and-dish. He was more assertive with his teammates than we've seen before as well. Seeing Smith bark at other guys on the floor was definitely something new.

Ronnie Coleman - When he hits a jumper early, his confidence shoots way up. He drained his first three from the left corner. The next time he touched the ball, he gave a shot fake from the same spot, then dribbled to an open spot beyond the arc in the elbow area, and drained another. The next time he touched the ball the D crowded him and he drove across the court from right to left, before finishing with a short jumper from just outside the paint.

Brent Petway did what he always does on both ends of the floor, but it's clear that he will try to be more of a threat offensively this year. What that translates into is more 15-18 foot jumpers. Most times that shot comes off of a turn-and-face out of the post. The shot looks good, but it doesn't seem to be as in rhythm as his catch and shoot attempts facing the basket in warm-ups. That's especially true when his turn-and-face is followed up with hesitation before jacking up the shot. It will be interesting to see if this is a shot he can hit when the lights are on.

Lester Abram - Strong day taking it to the hole for Lester. Some of his drives may have been charges during the regular season, but on a day when the refs had generous whistles…Abram took advantage. Meanwhile, his teammates paid the price.

Deshawn Sims - The youngster showed flashes of the wealth of offensive talent he has by delivering a few moves in the paint AND finishing a couple of plays facing the basket. That said, some of his aggressiveness will have to be tempered a bit. He definitely would have been called for charges on a few of his drives to the hole. Defensively, Mike Jackson spent a lot of his day on prodding Sims to flash to the dribbler to allow his teammates to get over screens. The youngster seemed to pick it up on his own as the day went on.

Ekpe Udoh - Very nice day for the freshman. He was decisive with the basketball and showed unexpected quickness. His best move of the afternoon came when he received a pass with his back to the basket in transition…but instead of deliberately pounding it inside…in one motion he turned to his left and went to the rim, blowing past a flat-footed Courtney Sims to complete a lay-up. By the way, this kid is absolutely a FIERCE rebounder. FIERCE!.

Courtney Sims - Big…physical…too much to handle for his teammates to handle one-on-one on the blocks… pretty much nothing new there. Sims didn't have a whole lot of attempts, but he was effective when he did. Again, that's nothing new for Sims in open gyms and scrimmages. At the same time, it must be said that he didn't face any double teams and he wasn't being pushed off the block. How he handles those things when the Wolverines face real live competition will tell the story of how much improvement he has actually made.

Dion Harris - He nailed his first three but was pretty quiet after that. He had a few uncharacteristic turnovers as well. It wasn't anything that should cause concern…it just wasn't his best day. He has played far better this offseason.


Enjoy.

PS sorry I forgot to put where this stuff came from. Premium stuff from Scout.com.

I never have any original inside sources. Everything comes from secondhand off of premium accounts I own. Sorry about the confusion.

Courtney Sims - Big…physical…too much to handle for his teammates to handle one-on-one on the blocks… pretty much nothing new there. Sims didn't have a whole lot of attempts, but he was effective when he did. Again, that's nothing new for Sims in open gyms and scrimmages. At the same time, it must be said that he didn't face any double teams and he wasn't being pushed off the block.
[smilie=angryfire.g:
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! There is no way you were there and came out with that report. Courtney Sims was horrible. At the scrimmage he showed no touch around the basket, got pushed off the block and didn't need to be double teamed. Petway owned his ass with at least two blocks and then on the other end got two and ones on him. I am in complete shock that somebody could say he was big....physical....and too much to handle. I will be shaking my head for the rest of the day. Oh, and good to see you back numb-nuts.

JFirst thing I have to say from a positive standpoint is that this team is relaly going to play aggressive pressure defense. When we have Dion les and Jevohn on the floor together, other teams will struggle on the perimeter and we should be able to create some fast break opportunities.
Starting w/ Shepherd, first play off the game he lew by Coleman basline for an easy layup. Got to the basket w/ ease all not and I don't believe he had a turnover. Looked much more relaxed and comfortable w/ the ball. Often guarded the opposing team's PG(Dion) allowing Jerrett to guard a slower man. Also knocked down an acrobatic 12 foot off balance jumper. If this is any indication, he's this team's starting SF.
Dion looked to get other guys involved and played mostly PG. Knocked down atlest 1 3 ball, maybe 2. Will be our go to guy at the end of games. Will he bring what Horton did? no, but we won't need him to.
Courtney did well getting position on the low blocks but missed some easy looks early. Didn't look bad by any means, just didn't finish well.
Udoh did well, but didn't change or block as many shots as I've seen him do in the past. Free throw stroke looked very solid, something that is key and you don't see in open gyms.
Liked what i saw from Petway. He's the team's vocal leader alond w/ Dion and played very hard as always. Did a nice job guarding Courtney and his leaping ability allowed him to get a hand in the face of the bigger man. Fought hrad for post position, but then elected to face up for a 12-15 foot jumper. Made one great finish where he got pushed behind the basket in the air and kinda threw the ball down into the basket.
Jerrett did a decent job running the team but I'm not convinced he can be this team's pg right now. Had no success getting to the basket and has to be hidden on defense, tough to do w/ a pg.
Deshawn was fairly quiet on the night. Would've liked to see him fight a little harder for post position, but i know this kid can play. Did have 1 very strong finish down low. Both he and Udoh will obviously be contributors.
Ronnie knocked down a couple of 3's and actually made a great post entry feed for an easy layup, something he has struggled mightily w/ in the past. But he remains a liability on defense and absolutely could saty w/ Jevohn off the dribble. Didn't even impede him a couple fo times. Can fill a role coming off the bech as a zone buster, but shouldn't see a ton of minutes w/ this roster.
Les was Les, solid D, quiet, a good complimentary scorer. Didn't do a whole lot on the night but will never hurt you and knock down the FTs.
Kendric price was very active and had one nice finish in the paint. There will be a serious battle for post minutes between 5 guys and right now it looks like he's #5. Handles the ball better than any of the rest and shoots fairly well. At the very least will bring some eneergy and a definite contributor down the road.
Reed Baker, well, he's not gonna help us. We're beyond the point of playing kids of this caliber. Not ripping the kid as he works very hard and shoots well. A better player than hayes Grroms imo but we're beyond that. C.J. lee would be more able to contribute because he's betetr on D, but has to sit out the year. PG will be fine w/ Dion and Jerrett. Also wouldn't be afraid to play K'len there for short spurts.
Morris and Wright were quiet, didn't stand out as playing bad or good. Wright shoots the ball great and looks in unbelievable shape compared to only a few months ago, but to me is a redshirt candiate. Brings similar skills to Coleman although he'll be a better player than Ronnie IMO. K'len can help this team as he's solid w/ the ball and has been shooting it well.

This is from a poster who was there at the scrimmage and what he thought. Sorry about the spelling mistakes they came from him. I just copied and pasted.

Hey Wizzle, I posted what you said about Courtney and here is what someone had to say on your comments.


Courtney established good low post poistion and used his size to create so easy looks. Struggled to finish early, but improved adding a nice and-1. Courtney has become the whipping boy for UM hoops, once Horton started taking over game , people had to get off him so they turned their attention to Courtney. Not saying he's consistently produced the way he sould, because he hasn't. But I just notice such a trend of people on these sites establishing their favorite guys the believing that they can do no wrong while other's can do no right. Lester Abram and Mike Hart for example have never made a mistake in the Um careers according to most people on these boards where Chad Henne and Courtney Sims have to be absolutely great in order to avoid being ripped.

Roe told Korie Lucious recently that he wanted to come to East Lansing and play with him, but needed to check out UNC first. I'm wanting Roe really bad and if he wants to win, he'll come to State. With the guards MSU has coming in, Roe would hardly ever be double teamed and he would have TONS of support.

BTW, Art, you can mark in two wins for UofM against State. I was at State's practice yesterday and they are going to be horrible. They just don't have the athletic guards they need.

I will post another premium article on Roe later.

I think Roe is playing the game. When I post this premium article you will think he wants to go to UNC from his comments when you compare them to the other 4 schools he has narrowed things down to.

Michigan State – “I like that Tom Izzo gets most of his players to the NBA each year and they’re always competitive. I love their up-tempo game and I love the guys that they have there now.”

Michigan – “I love that they’re rebuilding and I love Tommy Amaker and the whole coaching staff. I like everything about it up there and I also like the way they play.”

Kansas – “I’ve started to learn and know about Bill Self a lot. I love that they are another big program like North Carolina. It’s another school that you can compare North Carolina with and see the difference between those schools. I love the style of play they play.”

North Carolina – “[I like] everything. You can’t dislike North Carolina. It’s the best school in the country. It’s a historic program and it’s a blessing just to have them recruiting me. I like them a lot.”

Ohio State – “I love the players that they have there. I’m an Ohio kid. I know mostly every kid because I’ve either played against them or talked to them at some point and I love Coach Matta.”

He are the quotes from Roe. They are provided by a guy from Carolina. So as you see, I think Roe is playing the game and telling everyone what they want to hear, especially since he has no clear cut leader at this point.

The thing that could kill Roe's chances of going to State is the season they will have this year. Plenty of current commits have chosen State because of their high flying (Shannon Brown-Maurice Ager) style. MSU will not play that way this year.

I hope Roe is smart enough to see the situation and know what is in store for the future. I don't want their grind it out style this year to turn him off. I'm sure Izzo will tell him this.

It's too bad Izzo couldn't have locked him up while the legends were in EL for the alumni game like he did with Lucious.

Art, solid info, but do you ever post anything of your own, instead of saying "my boy in Denver" said....

What do you mean my own? My own opinion..sure I do it all the time look at the Henne vs. Stanton thread or the next HC at MSU.

My own inside information? Nope I dont have any of that. Just from premium information. I say where I get the stuff there people do not mistakingly think I have some inside sources.

I do not know enough about Roe to come up with my own conclusions about him.

aaaah haha, Damn it Moodini, you reminded me of my own boy in Denver. That punk screwed me on that Olandis Gary tip. Still killin me! haha

Get off Art, he's my new boy. I got your back homeboy!

DocTre and Art = WTF Dominance Alliance! Alliance! haha

Delvon Roe trimmed his list to 5! Moodini, hook us up with the update. Who made it?

I already posted who his top 5 were.

Who wrote that last post...nobody signed it...

JickBoy

LOL!

Delvon Roe trimmed his list to 5! Moodini, hook us up with the update. Who made it?

On Oct. 26 he kept his promise, narrowing the field in listing the Wolverines first and adding Michigan State, Ohio State, North Carolina and Kansas as the other programs he's still considering.

JickBoy, you'll definitely know who posted this. haha.

Mood

I love the sound of this. This is from an interview with Carolina Blue, UNC's Rivals website.

CB - Great stuff man. Moving back to basketball... as a recruit, colleges are allowed a certain number of times that they can contact you, but you are not limited to the number of times that YOU can initiate contact, who do you contact most often?

ROE - "Probably Michigan. I talk to Michigan a lot and North Carolina too. Michigan State some too. Basically we just text me a lot to see how things are going."

If Michigan gets Roe, you might start questioning who is replacing Ed Martin over there. So he names his top 5:

1) UNC- One of the most historic programs in college basketball
2) Kansas- Same as above
3) OSU- Intense hype surrounding the program with a great new coach and killer classes coming in
4) MSU- Top 10 Program All Time, 4 Final Fours in last 8 years
5) Michigan- A decade without even making the tourney

WTF? Why the hell would you even consider Michigan if you aren't from the state. And even then you'd think it would be green and white.

Because Michigan was one of the first teams to get on him.

And please do not mention the fact that a newspaper stated there was an infraction, because Roe himself said the newspaper got it all wrong and Michigan did nothing wrong.

Btw is a nod to a recruit considered contact if the coach nodded first?

BTW Tommy is really liked by players and parents. If Michigan had made the tourney last year, this wouldnt even be a topic of discussion.

Top 10 all time...come on be real...top 10 last 20 years, sure....but all time?

Michigan, even by your standards, is expected to beat State this year. So that's enough to justify them over State without questions of conspiracy. Especially given the fact that next year's recruiting class has two top 40 cats and a 3 star pass-first, defensive PG. That sounds like an up-and-coming program. As far as beating out OSU, they have probably the best 2-year recruiting class combo in the history of college basketball. Either everyone is going to bolt and it will be a program without chemistry or playing time will be horrible for a kid in the third year class. So not hard to imagine beating them out either.
After that, you have a kid from Ohio - Midwest. Michigan is obviously closer to home than either UNC or Kansas. Not too hard to see how that decision is made.
But at the end of the day, Michigan was the first D-1 program to show interest in him and he respects that. The relationship with Tommy Amaker has been building longer than with anyone else. That's what has kept Michigan around and may be able to sway it in the end.
No conspiracy.

Not to mention, (clearing throat), Michigan clearly would have made the tourney the past two years if it weren't for injuries.

Let's see what you have to say about that one, all threads considered.

If Michigan gets Roe, you might start questioning who is replacing Ed Martin over there. So he names his top 5:

1) UNC- One of the most historic programs in college basketball
2) Kansas- Same as above
3) OSU- Intense hype surrounding the program with a great new coach and killer classes coming in
4) MSU- Top 10 Program All Time, 4 Final Fours in last 8 years
5) Michigan- A decade without even making the tourney

WTF? Why the hell would you even consider Michigan if you aren't from the state. And even then you'd think it would be green and white.

Dude, it's not like Michigan is some clown program with no history. You've been alive to see a basketball National Championship at Michigan and I saw a magazine that ranked Michigan as the #26 basketball program in NCAA history. It's not like Michigan getting an out of state 5 star basketball recruit is unbelievable. Now, MSU football landing someone like Jimmy Claussen is impossible.

Because Michigan was one of the first teams to get on him.

And please do not mention the fact that a newspaper stated there was an infraction, because Roe himself said the newspaper got it all wrong and Michigan did nothing wrong.

Btw is a nod to a recruit considered contact if the coach nodded first?

BTW Tommy is really liked by players and parents. If Michigan had made the tourney last year, this wouldnt even be a topic of discussion.

Top 10 all time...come on be real...top 10 last 20 years, sure....but all time?

Umm.. Yeah MSU is. Check most any list you can find.

MSU is 8th in Final Fours, and tied for 6th in Titles. Lists may be biased due to the recent victories, but in perception, they are easily a top 10 team.

Okay, let me address several things.

You guys should have just stuck with the "We got ahold of him first" argument, I would have accepted that. Trying to claim Michigan is up and coming and they have all this tradition is comical. If you played word association around the country and used "Michigan Basketball" I guarantee you'd get two common answers. 1) Scandal 2) Time Out

Art, ESPN ranked MSU as the #8 Program of All Time. That's enough for me.

Jethro, Roe should go to UM over MSU because UM is going to beat them twice this year? Wow, is that the best reason you've got? I'd love to hear Amaker use that approach. Come here, we've lost 18 of the last 20, but this year we'll get 2!!! LOL

Moodini, I better not ever hear you say I always refer to basketball ever again because every single basketball post you make pulls in MSU Fball in some way. But now that you've mentioned it, you need to stop attempting to convince yourself that UM bball is any better than MSU fball. UM bball has been a joke for a decade. You know that.

Why would Roe to UM be more logical than a 5 Star to MSU Fball? Tell me what makes Michigan basketball better than MSU football. I'd love to hear it. What have you done? MSU has cracked the Top 10 several times over the past decade. MSU has finished in the Top 65 several times in the past decade. In your mind Michigan Basketball must still be respectable, in the eyes of the rest of the country Michigan Basketball is the equivalent to Bozo the Clown.
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000UV2IE.01-A1S81D2ZBAQCOD._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg = http://www.synthfool.com/openresources/bozo.gif

I hope I never see Tre say another bad thing about ESPN. Since ESPN is good enough for him.

Also, so you speak for the rest of the country Tre...nice how is that job working for ya?

Rag on UM BBall all you want, but at least you still got your bozo coaching your football team for a few more weeks..:) Please spare me how the next coach will change things around...you will start sounding like a UM Bball fan.

So basically what you're saying is that any athlete their right mind who had the choice to go to Michigan or MSU would just laugh in the face of Michigan? So basically Michigan should never get any recruits because MSU is so dominant and "storied", unless they're paying him?

I know you don't believe this, but Amaker is actually a good recruiter. How else would you explain one of the top players in the country in Eddie Griffin going to Seton Hall? (You can make fun of his actual coaching ability, I'll probably agree with you)

Honestly, and I have seen some players go for this, would you rather be one of the stars on a team, or the star on the team. That's my bet as to what Amaker is going with. "The re-emergence of U of M basketball with you, Devon Roe, as the leader."

Is this what he's doing? I don't know. But neither do you, Tre. Just because he's actually considering Michigan as well as State isn't all that surprising. Just because you hate Michigan, doesn't mean everyone outside of Ann Arbor does.

Michigan's basketball tradition may have taken a shot as of late, but the University itself is still rich with tradition.

BTW Tre while you are out talking to the people all over the country...ask them which school has more tradition, not just BBall or FBall, but just straight up tradition.

MoTown, I definately think Amaker is a great recruiter. He has to be a great recruiter if he's convinced a McDonald's AA and a Mr. B to go to Michigan. I guess I just don't see the player's point of view. I would hope all recruits would want to win and if they are high end recruits I'd want to trust my NBA future to somebody who is known for preparing players for the NBA and won with them. I would say the same for MSU football. If you are a star, why would you go there (unless you grew up a fan)? I really don't know.

I wouldn't want a recruit that would rather be a star on a shitty team than one of the stars on a Championship team.

I agree with you on that, but that's in order to get the players to come there, a lot of times that's what you need to do. Team players will beat out individuals 10 times out of 10 (except in the NBA), and good college teams are created by selfless team players.

But like I said, a lot of times coaches have to believe they can change that mentality once they get there. The good coaches can - I'm not sure about Amaker.

The players POV is that they want to make Michigan like it was (minus the infractions) when UM had a very good, bordering on great BBall program. There is prestige in the past.

Kids eat up shit like....you come here and we can make things great again. Ask Derrick Williams and Justin King why then went to PSU instead of other schools....to make PSU great again.

Each kid has his own reason for going to a school and while MSU has done a nice job of putting kids in the NBA, for a long while UM had a lot of players in the NBA too and still have a few for all the problems they have had. Crawford, Webber, Howard, Robinson to name a few.

I bet you would shocked to know that MSU (8) has exactly one more player on NBA rosters than UM (7) and that UM has more than Indiana, Nova, Kansas and is tied for 10th in college schools with players playing in the NBA. Per Scout.com breakdown of college players on NBA rosters.

It was not that long ago that UM was a pretty good BBall school and that is where they are trying to get again and some players love the thought of playing at the same school as the FAB5 and remember a lot of these kids dont care about what Webber and others may have done....they probably see worse right now with AAU coaches. They are offically off of probation and they have to make the tourney this year. I know it has been said, but if TA doesnt make it...i dont know if he makes it through the offseason and I am not sure that I want him to.

And yet you mention Ohio State. How good were they for a while? Not good at all. How did they get good? A program was built. Why? Because some kids were confident in their ability to win without needing to leach off a bunch of other 5 star cats. You're not asking about dedicated ballers. You're talking about how kids should bandwagon. That's a bunch of crap.

And yet you mention Ohio State. How good were they for a while? Not good at all. How did they get good? A program was built. Why? Because some kids were confident in their ability to win without needing to leach off a bunch of other 5 star cats. You're not asking about dedicated ballers. You're talking about how kids should bandwagon. That's a bunch of crap.

There is more to Ohio State than that. During the Flintstone seasons, Ohio State was MSU's biggest competition for BT titles and they even split one with them. OSU also went to the Final Four during that time.

Who has a more recent championship?
And seriously, you're WAY overstating thier recent "success".
26-6 last season was impressive. They won a single game in the NCAA tourney. Wow.
The 3 seasons before that? Total of 51-43 with a whopping 1 postseason game, a first round NIT loss. Yeah, Roe has been impressed with all that success they've had during his formative years.
Give me a freaking break.

And to think you accuse others of crappy posts. How many years are you reaching back to find success beyond last season?

In your mind Michigan Basketball must still be respectable, in the eyes of the rest of the country Michigan Basketball is the equivalent to Bozo the Clown.
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000UV2IE.01-A1S81D2ZBAQCOD._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg = http://www.synthfool.com/openresources/bozo.gif

Michigan was 22-11 last year and finished at 8-8 in the Big Ten.

Michigan State was 22-12 last year and finished at 8-8 in the Big Ten.

Michigan beat #11 Michigan State, #23 Wisconsin, and #8 Illinois last year. That doesn't sound like Bozo the Clown to me.[smilie=rant.gif]

Go ahead and tell me how many of those 22 wins came against Central Arkasas St. or Florida Atlantic. 10 wins minimum came from schools most couldn't name the mascots of. It's easy to schedule joksters in bball and put together a 2-1 win ratio.

10 Straight Seasons without cracking the Top 65 = Clown City

For a team to be ranked in the top 10 all time as a BBall program you would think they would have a bigger edge than 4 F4 to 3 F4 and 1 championship apiece in the last 20 years.

Oh that is right we are talking about MSU dominating the past years and not UM dominating the 10 years prior to that. In the tournament.

It goes back and forth...

I would have to go back a lot farther than 20 years to put MSU football in the same sentence with UM football.

Will you please stop talking out of your ass? Top 65? Yeah right. Like a tourney winner from a completely insignificant conference is really a top 65 team. Like Michigan couldn't beat them. You just mocked Michigan for scheduling jokes - which is what 1/4 of the first round teams are.

And while State does schedule a number of top teams, usually, in their non-conference schedule, DON'T pretend they don't play cupcakes. Tonight's game is a perfect example.

For a team to be ranked in the top 10 all time as a BBall program you would think they would have a bigger edge than 4 F4 to 3 F4 and 1 championship apiece in the last 20 years.

Oh that is right we are talking about MSU dominating the past years and not UM dominating the 10 years prior to that. In the tournament.

It goes back and forth...

I would have to go back a lot farther than 20 years to put MSU football in the same sentence with UM football.

Art, we weren't talking about Top 10 Program in the last 20 years. We were talking Top 10 program All Time. That is what you questioned. And I've got several magazines and ESPN agreeing with me that MSU is a Top 10 Program All Time. Sorry, but those sources carry more weight than Art's biased opinion.

But time and time again you mock "all-time" status, don't you?

Will you please stop talking out of your ass? Top 65? Yeah right. Like a tourney winner from a completely insignificant conference is really a top 65 team. Like Michigan couldn't beat them. You just mocked Michigan for scheduling jokes - which is what 1/4 of the first round teams are.

And while State does schedule a number of top teams, usually, in their non-conference schedule, DON'T pretend they don't play cupcakes. Tonight's game is a perfect example.

Okay, let me switch it up for you. A decade without going to the NCAA tournament which allows 65 teams. A decade! Embarrassing.

But time and time again you mock "all-time" status, don't you?

No, I mock Michigan fans that talk about their 87 1/2 National Championships.
87 which came when face masks didn't exist and like 10 teams even played the sport.


So....Delvon Roe huh

Yeah. Maybe the fact that I corrected the spelling will get us back on topic.

Facemasks. Nice.

Go ahead and tell me how many of those 22 wins came against Central Arkasas St. or Florida Atlantic. 10 wins minimum came from schools most couldn't name the mascots of. It's easy to schedule joksters in bball and put together a 2-1 win ratio.

10 Straight Seasons without cracking the Top 65 = Clown City

We were 8-8 in the Big Ten, same as you.

We were 8-8 in the Big Ten, same as you.

So what are you trying to say? Are you arguing that Michigan isn't a joke of a basketball program?

A DECADE!

So what are you trying to say? Are you arguing that Michigan isn't a joke of a basketball program?

A DECADE!

I'm saying "joke of a basketball program" Michigan, had the same record, in the same conference, as "Elite" Michigan State.

I'm saying "joke of a basketball program" Michigan, had the same record, in the same conference, as "Elite" Michigan State.

And MSU and UM had the same Big Ten record in '99 in football, same as 'Elite' Michigan.

And MSU and UM had the same Big Ten record in '99 in football, same as 'Elite' Michigan.

I was just going to say that. And we finished #5 in the country.

You can probably stop putting Elite in parenthesis seeing that MSU is a Top 10 Program All Time, seeing that we just pulled in the #5 recruiting class in the country, and seeing that we've been to the "Elite" 8, 5 of the last 8 seasons.

But you've taken several years off, like you are this year....

Nevermind, after 286 posts on the topic I'm tired of beating my head against a wall.

But you've taken several years off, like you are this year....

Nevermind, after 286 posts on the topic I'm tired of beating my head against a wall.

So have you. Last matched us(before that) when you were cheating.

You have no fucking clue what argument I'm making.

Has State basketball been better than Michigan basketball the past tens years? Absolutely. By far. Anyone trying to disagree with that is drunk and stupid, along with several other issues.

Every program in every sport has bad years. That does not remove you from being Elite unless you have several years in a row or you fail to show that you can hang with the "Elite."

That being said, MSU is obviously Elite in basketball and UM is in football.

LMAO.

Michigan, even by your standards, is expected to beat State this year. So that's enough to justify them over State without questions of conspiracy. Especially given the fact that next year's recruiting class has two top 40 cats and a 3 star pass-first, defensive PG. That sounds like an up-and-coming program.

Up and coming? More like treading water. Two steps forward (ie. getting Legion, Corp and Grady) and then two steps back (ie. losing Dion, Sims and Petway). The comparing and contrasting btwn the two teams is almost unfair.

One team (MSU) is going to be primed for yet another Final Four run with insane depth and talent while UM will be primed to hopefully just make the tournament (again?). One program (MSU) has some of the most state of the art facilities in the nation and continues to build plans for even more basketball expansion and upgrades, whereas the other (UM) continues to struggle for support and money to even just get a new sound system and a fresh coat of paint in Crisler. One house (Breslin) has sold out for 135 straight games, and the other (Crisler) might only sell out a handful of games each season.

If you were a top 5 recruit and had no inherrent allegiance to either school, which situation would YOU join? It's a no brainer.

One thing that both MSU and UM can offer Roe is playing time...though MSU will certainly have more to offer.

All MSU is going to have in the front court in 2008 is Morgan (SF/PF) and Herzog (C).

Michigan will have Udoh (C), Sims (SF/PF), Devries (PF/C) and Gibson (PF).

Regardless, it should be interesting to see how Roe's recruitment plays out.

Are you really mentioning Udoh, Devries and Gibson as PT competition for Roe? You've got to be kidding me. They'll be on hand to keep his water bottle cold for him. Sims is all you've got, and he'll play PF when Roe is at C, SF when Roe is at PF (as of now that would put Udoh at C), and they'll only share a position when one is on the bench due to foul trouble or need of a breather and the other is on the floor.

PT is a stupid argument between us on Roe. He is gonna play as much as he can reasonably play on either team. UNC, PT could be an issue, the rest, his conditioning is a bigger one.

I'd reserve judgment on Udoh a little bit Jethro, he has been getting crazy reviews as being as good/better than Courtney right now.

Ok, that's fine, but I don't think Roe will need to worry about PT with him. If Udog is crazy good, he'll be a junior during Roe's freshman season (D Sims would also be a junior). The better Udoh and Sims are, the less likely they are to play 4 years. But if it meant getting Roe, Tommy would be more than happy to split minutes and play a big front line.

Anyhow, Tre was talking football but mentioned that if a guy like Nichol returned State to the National stage he would get crazy love. Same applies for Roe. If he comes and brings a couple guys with him (Frease and Crater would be nice) they would get some insane credit.

I'd reserve judgment on Udoh a little bit Jethro, he has been getting crazy reviews as being as good/better than Courtney right now.

Udoh was definitely the best freshman on the floor at the Maize and Blue scrimmage, and was one of the most impressive players overall. I think Roe will play alongside him though.

Up and coming? More like treading water. Two steps forward (ie. getting Legion, Corp and Grady) and then two steps back (ie. losing Dion, Sims and Petway). The comparing and contrasting btwn the two teams is almost unfair.

One team (MSU) is going to be primed for yet another Final Four run with insane depth and talent while UM will be primed to hopefully just make the tournament (again?). One program (MSU) has some of the most state of the art facilities in the nation and continues to build plans for even more basketball expansion and upgrades, whereas the other (UM) continues to struggle for support and money to even just get a new sound system and a fresh coat of paint in Crisler. One house (Breslin) has sold out for 135 straight games, and the other (Crisler) might only sell out a handful of games each season.

If you were a top 5 recruit and had no inherrent allegiance to either school, which situation would YOU join? It's a no brainer.

One thing that both MSU and UM can offer Roe is playing time...though MSU will certainly have more to offer.

All MSU is going to have in the front court in 2008 is Morgan (SF/PF) and Herzog (C).

Michigan will have Udoh (C), Sims (SF/PF), Devries (PF/C) and Gibson (PF).

Regardless, it should be interesting to see how Roe's recruitment plays out.

Hilarious and absolutely true at the same time.

Udoh was definitely the best freshman on the floor at the Maize and Blue scrimmage, and was one of the most impressive players overall. I think Roe will play alongside him though.

Roe will play alongside him? Wow, confident in a Roe commitment.

Are you really mentioning Udoh, Devries and Gibson as PT competition for Roe? You've got to be kidding me. They'll be on hand to keep his water bottle cold for him. Sims is all you've got, and he'll play PF when Roe is at C, SF when Roe is at PF (as of now that would put Udoh at C), and they'll only share a position when one is on the bench due to foul trouble or need of a breather and the other is on the floor.

Jethro, Jethro, Jethro...you disappoint me my man. Michigan is your pride and joy and you didn't even know that Udoh is the best looking freshman. I bleed green and I knew that Udoh was getting lots of praise.

Are you really mentioning Udoh, Devries and Gibson as PT competition for Roe? You've got to be kidding me. They'll be on hand to keep his water bottle cold for him. Sims is all you've got, and he'll play PF when Roe is at C, SF when Roe is at PF (as of now that would put Udoh at C), and they'll only share a position when one is on the bench due to foul trouble or need of a breather and the other is on the floor.

First of all, Roe is just 6'7".......6'8" is probably stretching it. Dude's not going to be playing center any time soon.

I was merely listing both team's front court depth charts. I clearly said that both teams will have a lot of playing time available for Roe should he commit to their program. Regardless of talents levels though, facts are that UM will simply have more big bodies available in 2008 than will MSU.

Roe's not going to play 40 minutes a game as a freshman...but he'll get more minutes and will come closer to averaging 40 min/gm at MSU. At UM he'll have some lesser talented yet still upperclassmen frontcourt players playing behind him.

Amaker will at least have options. Izzo won't have that luxury...he'll be forced to Roe or die.

DraftExpress.com article on Roe.

http://www.draftexpress.com/blogs.php?blogid=9

Amaker will at least have options. Izzo won't have that luxury...he'll be forced to Roe or die.

We're gonna have Herzog, Ibok(assuming not 4 and leave i.e. Rowley), Suton, and Gray in '08. The next year it will be only Herzog, Morgan, and TBD '08(Roe?), along with freshman.

At least thats how I think it is:
'07 - no one leaves, add Allen, Lucas, Summers
'08 - Nietzel, Naymick, and supposedly a 4 year then grad guy(Ibok is my guess) and add Lucious, Roe?, Williams?
'09 - lose Walton, MoJo, Suton, Ibok(assuming he stays), and Gray

DraftExpress.com article on Roe.

http://www.draftexpress.com/blogs.php?blogid=9
Roe was the subject of a recent article on DraftXpress.com detailing a scrimmage in which he dominated. The most interesting portion, however, came in one of the last paragraphs.

“Recently, Roe stated that his final five schools are North Carolina, Kansas, Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State,” they wrote. “Many close to the situation feel that North Carolina and Michigan are the leaders at the moment, however, and the three remaining schools have a bit of ground to gain.”

We're gonna have Herzog, Ibok(assuming not 4 and leave i.e. Rowley), Suton, and Gray in '08. The next year it will be only Herzog, Morgan, and TBD '08(Roe?), along with freshman.

At least thats how I think it is:
'07 - no one leaves, add Allen, Lucas, Summers
'08 - Nietzel, Naymick, and supposedly a 4 year then grad guy(Ibok is my guess) and add Lucious, Roe?, Williams?
'09 - lose Walton, MoJo, Suton, Ibok(assuming he stays), and Gray

Yeah you're obviously right. I had my graduation years mixed up.

That first year at MSU, Roe will certainly have some frontcourt competition to deal with, but at the same time...he'll have the luxury and opportunity of playing on a legitimate National Title contending team.

It all depends on what he's looking for.

I just don't like the way people assume Michigan won't have a chance to compete for much if they land Roe.

Look at the players they'll have his freshman year:
DeShawn Sims will be a junior (if he's still there)
Same with Udoh, Wright and Morris.
The sophomores will be Legion, Harris and Grady.
Add Roe and whoever joins him in that class and you have a team with at least:
1 - 5 star player
3 - 4 star players
4 - 3 star players

Now, if they can add anyone like Noopy Crater, Kenny Frease or Yancy Gates along with Roe then you add that talent to what's listed above.

That's the most talent at Michigan in a long, long time. The last time they had that kind of talent they were lead by Ellerbe and Fisher.
Say what you will about Amaker's coaching ability, but he has never had THAT much talent to work with.
Yes, Horton was a 4 star and the three that joined him the following year were ranked as highly as 4 stars by some. Amaker was relatively new and all but one of the 4 star guys were freshmen. They finished 23-11.
Could Amaker do better with experience in the system and some of that talent as upperclassmen? Absolutely, and Roe would buy into that. If he didn't we wouldn't still be on his list.

Amaker had 3 players from his NIT team at his last job that were selected in the 1st Round of the NBA Draft.

If Roe wants a future and success in college, he needs to go to North Carolina or MSU.

Maybe he is like Drew Stanton and doesnt care about winning?

That's just a stupid comment. I get what you're trying to do and that's fine, but you just gave Tre another reason to use your words and go off about "typical Michigan fans". Thanks buddy.

lol

Maybe he is like Drew Stanton and doesnt care about winning?


You got that one right Jethro. Muhme no longer provides quality posts with any sort of discussion.

When you’re such a highly sought-after player as is Delvon Roe, a lot of people tend to have differing opinions. But ultimately, there’s only one opinion that matters.

The 6-8 Roe from Lakewood (Ohio) St. Edward narrowed his list of college possibilities last month to five. Kansas, Michigan, Michigan State, North Carolina and Ohio State, alphabetically, are the programs hoping to land the No. 5-rated player in the class of 2008 by ScoutHoops.com.

But that’s where things get a bit interesting. Which school will ultimately land Roe?

There are plenty of people speculating who’s in, who’s out, who leads and who trails. Eventually, that will matter when it’s time for a decision.

Although Roe is the only person that matters, for now his father says to all the rest of the speculation, “not so fast my friend.”

Delvon Blanton, the father of Delvon Roe spoke with Bucknuts.com Sunday evening to discuss his son’s recruitment. Roe took a visit with his father to Ohio State this past weekend – the second trip to Columbus this fall. He’s also visited Michigan on multiple occasions, Michigan State and Midnight Madness, “Late Night with Roy” visit to Chapel Hill to check out North Carolina.

“He doesn’t have a direction right now – he’s wide open,” Blanton said. “I know a lot has been said about he’s leaning one way or another but he doesn’t have a direction. There’s no such thing as Michigan State this or Ohio State that… There’s no such thing as Carolina over Michigan or Michigan over Michigan State – they’re all dead even right now. We have visited all four of them.”

In addition to those four, Roe hopes to visit Kansas in the spring.

In the meantime, Blanton said they are trying to watch the teams and get a feel for the programs. More importantly, they are trying to get a feel for the coaches.

“You have the Tom Izzos, Tommy Amakers, Roy Williams’ and Thad Mattas, and they’re all good coaches, but I want Delvon to get a feel for them as people and get to know them as a father-son relationship –someone that will care for him individually,” Blanton explained. “The universities – all of them are great schools. He will get a good education wherever he goes. I want him to go somewhere that he has a coach figure, a father figure that will be like me on his butt reminding him he won’t get nothing easy in life, he’s got to earn it. That’s what it is boiling down to.

“Four years or however long he’s going to be there, he’s got to have a relationship with the coaches – the people that will help him get to the next level. I want him to have a feel for the environment. Ohio State has got a great environment,” he added. “He wants to go somewhere that has a coach like his high school coach (Eric Flannery). He wants someone he can trust.”

Blanton talked about Roe’s relationship with some of the coaches.

“He likes Coach Pete (Dan Peters), he loves Coach (Thad) Matta. He loves all the coaches down there at Ohio State,” he said. “He loves Tommy Amaker. He likes Tom Izzo. He likes them all.”

There was one, however, that Blanton singled out more than the rest.

“He loves Tommy Amaker,” he explained. “He loves Tommy Amaker, I’m just going to tell you that right now. Tommy Amaker from day one has always been there to tell him what he thinks he can do for Delvon, what he needs to do to become a better player, what he can become, off the court what he can accomplish – that’s what I want. I want a coach that can make him into a man so when he graduates college, he can be successful in case he doesn’t make it (as a player).

“What are the chances, what are the chances if you don’t make it?” added Blanton. “What are you doing to do if you don’t make it as a player?”

Having visited Ohio State for the second time, Blanton stacked it up against their other visits.

“I think Ohio State has more excitement,” he said. “They bring more excitement to the table. I think the campus atmosphere is the best of all of them…It was exciting. It was very, very electric. It’s what it’s all about when you go down to school and get your education. You want to go down there and you want to be in that type of environment. He liked it a lot. He likes Ohio State a whole lot.”

Blanton added that his son, being 16 years old, was under a lot of pressure to make, “the right choice.”

He noted that he’s heard a lot of rumors about what Roe wants or doesn’t want, and he was compelled to issue a disclaimer that his son was far from making a decision on college.

“The rumor out there is that he’s scared to go to Ohio State because he’s too afraid of all the great players – that’s not true,” said Blanton. “That’s totally not true. That has nothing to do with it. He likes Ohio State. He feels comfortable at Ohio State. He knows a lot of the guys down there and he’s comfortable around them because he likes them. But he says, ‘dad, I just want to get a feel for the coaches.’

“He is confused. He should be, he’s only 16 years old,” Blanton added. “All the schools are great. How could you not want to go to Carolina? How could you not want to go to Ohio State? They’re all great schools. But the thing is, how are you going to play there? How do you fit in? That’s the bottom line. That’s the key.”

Although Roe has a comfort level with some of the schools and some of the coaches, Blanton said there’s far more work to be done.

“As far as the coaches, I haven’t got a feel for all of them yet like I would like to but I’m going to give it to the end of the school year before he makes a decision,” he said. “With the recruits coming to Ohio State – Delvon is another number. With all those great recruits, he’s just another number. Carolina has a lot of great recruits. He’s just another number there too. Where do you fit in? ‘Where do I fit in at down here?’ That’s what you have to find out. You have to feel your spot out wherever you go. Another big thing is family. How far are you going to be from home? Distance is a big thing because he’s a close-knit kid. He’s close to his family. That’s all he knows is his family. That plays a big part in it too.”

With several months left, presumably, in the process, Blanton said he doesn’t expect his son to know where he will end up for a while. He added that the timetable could be spring or summer before he makes a decision.

In the meantime, Blanton says his son is all over the map.

“He’s going to naturally be confused about who he likes because they’re all great schools,” he said. “It’s just not that easy. It’s a hard decision. This is a time in his life where he’s got to make a good choice. If you’re in the corporate world and you are up for a job and you have to make a choice, you want to make the right decision. He’s not confused to the point where it’s tearing him apart, but he really wants to make the right decision. I want him to go where he feels comfortable with the coaches.”

When the decision is made, it appears it’s going to be based on the coach.

“All of them are going to tell him what they want to tell him, they can say do this, do that, but you want to go somewhere that you can trust them. Coaches can tell you one thing but when you get there, it’s a totally different story,” he concluded. “If he chose Michigan over Michigan State or whatever, it’s because he feels that bond with the coach…wherever he goes, he’s going to have a great relationship with his coach. His coach will be a father-like figure.”

This is from the OSU guy and the latest in his recruitment.

This article states why I think UM has a great chance with Roe if they make the tourney. He loves TA more than of the other coaches, but TA has to show he can take a team to the big dance.



Art

New article up on Roe on The Wolverine about his visit to Ohio State for "The Game", here's a tidbit-


"I had a great time up there seeing everybody again. I saw Coach Matta and we just talked for a little bit about the Buckeyes," Roe said.

When asked what he learned about the program on this trip that he did not know before hand, Roe said, "I learned how powerful this school really is. How powerful Ohio State is, how deeply Ohio people care about their school and how they represent their state."

According to Roe this visit didn't change OSU too much as far as where they stand in his final five, but he is very impressed with the Buckeyes. "It is basically the same, everything is the same. I got to see the football aspect, but I want to see the basketball aspect because I am going to be playing basketball, not football. I love the way they play. I love everything about them, I love the players they have, I love the coaching staff."

Two of the other schools that Roe thinks very high of are Michigan and Michigan State. "I love Michigan, I love the way they are rebuilding. I love Michigan State, I love the coach, love Coach Izzo a lot. I also have a lot of respect for Coach Amaker. I love the way that Michigan State gets the majority of their players to the NBA, and I just love everything about Michigan."

It sounds reeeeeeeally good![smilie=groove.gif]

New article up on Roe on The Wolverine about his visit to Ohio State for "The Game", here's a tidbit-


"I had a great time up there seeing everybody again. I saw Coach Matta and we just talked for a little bit about the Buckeyes," Roe said.

When asked what he learned about the program on this trip that he did not know before hand, Roe said, "I learned how powerful this school really is. How powerful Ohio State is, how deeply Ohio people care about their school and how they represent their state."

According to Roe this visit didn't change OSU too much as far as where they stand in his final five, but he is very impressed with the Buckeyes. "It is basically the same, everything is the same. I got to see the football aspect, but I want to see the basketball aspect because I am going to be playing basketball, not football. I love the way they play. I love everything about them, I love the players they have, I love the coaching staff."

Two of the other schools that Roe thinks very high of are Michigan and Michigan State. "I love Michigan, I love the way they are rebuilding. I love Michigan State, I love the coach, love Coach Izzo a lot. I also have a lot of respect for Coach Amaker. I love the way that Michigan State gets the majority of their players to the NBA, and I just love everything about Michigan."

It sounds reeeeeeeally good![smilie=groove.gif]

Good to hear some positive about MSU from Roe. I think UNC and Michigan are the teams to beat here. Don't agree with his thoughts, but that's where they stand. The one thing that drives me nuts is Michigan fans/coaches/players/etc. talking about UM rebuilding. How long do they get to rebuild?!!!! I mean damn! MSU's Football program is always considered a disaster, but they only gave John L. 4 years to rebuild and then booted him.

When do you stop claiming you are rebuilding and just admit that you suck? Sounds harsh, but after a decade or so without any sort of success...you gotta ask the question.

The difference is that a 6-6 college football team can go to a postseason bowl.
Apparently a 20-12 team can't go to the NCAA torunament.

A 4-8 team isn't one guy away from being really good.

A 20-12 team just might be one guy away.

You add a 5 star recruit to MSU football and you get a guy that might help you win a close game or two.

You add a 5 star recruit to UM hoops and you get a guy that could win a dozen close games.

I think the real difference is that John L. had his only winning season in 2003 with someone else's recruits. This year and next year would have been the ones that tell the story of John L's teams. His program had zero sanctions to clear and fewer injuries. Football says 6 wins make you bowl eligible. I think the Motor City bowl would probably compare to the way you rip the NIT. MSU couldn't even make it there.
Meanwhile, Michigan has had a few seasons in which they were certainly eligible, in fact they were "bubble" teams that just barely missed it on more than one occasion. Even then they still played in the postseason and experienced some success. All this in spite of having to overcome a whole bunch of crap. Yes, you make a good point and Amaker has had quite a leash, but his resume has been a bit stronger than John L's, and he can point to next season with high expectations that John L couldn't.

The difference is that a 6-6 college football team can go to a postseason bowl.
Apparently a 20-12 team can't go to the NCAA torunament.

A 4-8 team isn't one guy away from being really good.

A 20-12 team just might be one guy away.

You add a 5 star recruit to MSU football and you get a guy that might help you win a close game or two.

You add a 5 star recruit to UM hoops and you get a guy that could win a dozen close games.

I think the real difference is that John L. had his only winning season in 2003 with someone else's recruits. This year and next year would have been the ones that tell the story of John L's teams. His program had zero sanctions to clear and fewer injuries. Football says 6 wins make you bowl eligible. I think the Motor City bowl would probably compare to the way you rip the NIT. MSU couldn't even make it there.
Meanwhile, Michigan has had a few seasons in which they were certainly eligible, in fact they were "bubble" teams that just barely missed it on more than one occasion. Even then they still played in the postseason and experienced some success. All this in spite of having to overcome a whole bunch of crap. Yes, you make a good point and Amaker has had quite a leash, but his resume has been a bit stronger than John L's, and he can point to next season with high expectations that John L couldn't.


John L had 8 wins at MSU, and was expected to be there this year.

And you expect 1 guy to win 12 more games(making you undefeated in your 32 game season?!?!!!?!), 1 guy could win you maybe 4, pushing you solidly into the NCAA's, but not a real contender, like MSU being solidly into the bowls, but not a BCS team.

The difference is that a 6-6 college football team can go to a postseason bowl.
Apparently a 20-12 team can't go to the NCAA torunament.

A 4-8 team isn't one guy away from being really good.

A 20-12 team just might be one guy away.

You add a 5 star recruit to MSU football and you get a guy that might help you win a close game or two.

You add a 5 star recruit to UM hoops and you get a guy that could win a dozen close games.

I think the real difference is that John L. had his only winning season in 2003 with someone else's recruits. This year and next year would have been the ones that tell the story of John L's teams. His program had zero sanctions to clear and fewer injuries. Football says 6 wins make you bowl eligible. I think the Motor City bowl would probably compare to the way you rip the NIT. MSU couldn't even make it there.
Meanwhile, Michigan has had a few seasons in which they were certainly eligible, in fact they were "bubble" teams that just barely missed it on more than one occasion. Even then they still played in the postseason and experienced some success. All this in spite of having to overcome a whole bunch of crap. Yes, you make a good point and Amaker has had quite a leash, but his resume has been a bit stronger than John L's, and he can point to next season with high expectations that John L couldn't.

Jethro, you are all over the place with your stances on football vs. basketball. For years you've been arguing that it is easier to succeed in bball than football given the set up, but here you are arguing how hard it is to get into the tourney.

Quit sighting your 22 wins record. 3 of those wins came in the NIT and a dozen of those wins came against teams that don't even have a football program!

For everything good you mention about Amaker, I can counter with:
John L. had his team in the Top 10 several seasons, John L. has finished among the Top 65, etc. Not comparing the two, just questioning how long Michigan and Amaker can claim they are rebuilding.

MSU basketball recruit Roe to have knee surgery

Dave Dye / The Detroit News

EAST LANSING -- Michigan State basketball recruit Delvon Roe, a senior in high school, is expected to undergo surgery on his right knee within a week, MSU coach Tom Izzo said Wednesday.

Roe will miss at least five weeks and possibly as much as five or six months depending on the amount of damage. A MRI revealed a torn meniscus, but there is also concern that there could be a chipped bone, Izzo said.

"It's nothing career-threatening," said Izzo.

Roe, a 6-foot-8 forward from Lakewood, Ohio, is ranked as a consensus top-10 player nationally. He turned down an offer from North Carolina and signed with Michigan State last month.

Not really a big deal, IMO. Missing 6 months at this point is fine. His development won't take a big hit because he's already more college-ready than most incoming freshmen, and missing 6 months means he'll still be fully rehabbed before he would ever step foot on campus. The time he'll spend in the gym will be lifting and adding more upper body strength, which is really scary actually.
The only thing that could be bad about this is the possibility of it being a recurring problem. Look at what knee injuries did for McDyess. It took several years out of the middle of his career and he never fully got back to the dominance he once had. Surgical techniques have come a long way in the past 10 years, so that's not as big a risk anymore.

Other knee.

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080805/GW0201/80805003


MSU freshman Roe needs more knee surgery
Joe Rexrode
jrexrode@lsj.com

EAST LANSING -- Michigan State basketball incoming freshman Delvon Roe, who is near full recovery from right knee surgery, now needs left knee surgery, MSU associate sports information director Matt Larson confirmed today.

The severity of Roe's injury and the timetable for his return are not yet known, but coach Tom Izzo is expected to make a statement later today. Roe, a 6-foot-7 forward from Lakewood, Ohio, is one of the top prospects nationally for the class of 2008.

Roe missed most of his senior season at Lakewood St. Edward High after microfracture surgery on his right knee in December. Izzo has said he expects Roe to challenge for a starting spot on the 2008-09 team

That's not good. Perhaps he injured it over-compensating? If so, not only does that suck pretty bad already, but with him being "near full recovery" on the other knee, is there any way he can fully condition that knee without over compensating on it?
For the kid's sake, and the sake of State fans hoping he can come in and have a monster impact, I hope the kid gets to have a decent career when all this is over. There are never any guarantees though. Remember, UM signed Jerrod Ward as the #1 player in the country. He had a pretty unspectacular career, and if I remember correctly a knee injury or two had a lot to do with it.

That's not good. Perhaps he injured it over-compensating? If so, not only does that suck pretty bad already, but with him being "near full recovery" on the other knee, is there any way he can fully condition that knee without over compensating on it?
For the kid's sake, and the sake of State fans hoping he can come in and have a monster impact, I hope the kid gets to have a decent career when all this is over. There are never any guarantees though. Remember, UM signed Jerrod Ward as the #1 player in the country. He had a pretty unspectacular career, and if I remember correctly a knee injury or two had a lot to do with it.
Don`t worry, he`ll be fine.