I got some good news yesterday. I'm going to be sideline at Michigan State's basketball practice again tomorrow. Last year I wasn't prepared (forgetting to bring my camera), but I will make sure I bring the digital camera tomorrow and catch some of the stuff I was telling you guys about last year. I'll try to get in touch with somebody with a scanner and I'll get some pics on the thread here.

Should be interesting. I'll be looking to see how involved Neitzel is as a leader, I'll be looking to see more aggresiveness out of Sutton, I want to get the first look at the freshmen, and I want to see how bigger/more aggressive MoJo is. I'll be back with a report.

Having a digital camera means not having to use a scanner to get the pics onto the computer.

I'd like to be the first to welcome Tre into the new millennium.

haha, yeah, I'm retarded. I never post pics, didn't think about it.

Okay, yesterday was another eye opening experience. I walked into MSU's basketball office and was greeted by Dwayne Stephens. Neitzel gave me the nod as he walked past. The players and coaches were watching film. Izzo was laying out his plan for the season. I couldn't believe I was able to listen. He was being very honest. "We are not good, therefore we have to be solid. No stupid mistakes, no turnovers, etc." He followed this up by citing the football team's performance the previous day. He ripped into their football players. "13 penalties for 165 yards? Personal Foul penalties on 3rd and long? Losers make those mistakes." "We will not make mistakes." It was an awesome speech if you could listen to the whole thing.

I've got some amazing pics for you guys and I'll get them up soon.

We had a long wait so I creeped into the film room area and listened to him talk to the freshmen. He had no idea I was there. He was talking to Raymar. "I don't want you to end up like Quise." You have the ability to play at the next level. But, if you make fucking excuses and if you don't learn, you'll waste it all. I can get my son to do something if I tell him 3 times. You have to be like that. I can't tell you something 100 fucking times. The next year is going to be hell. I promise you that. We are not going to be good and the media will blast us. But, if you prepare yourself and change your ways into a winner's ways, you'll be a Champion. We aren't like these other programs, we aren't shooting for .500. We aren't happy to make the postseason. We want to be Champions. We will be Champions. And you are either in or out. The kids we have coming in are going to help you get there. But, you have to be one of those tough kids. You can't be like Paul Davis. Paul didn't do anything extra. He barely made it to the next level because of talent alone. You have to do all the extras. You can't be a wuss. You have to be like Antonio. He have to be tough, you have to be smart."

He started talking about life and how there are people that show up just on time. They do what they have to. Then there are the people that do more and those are the people that become winners. He brought in a business man to tell them life stories about his businesses and explain the two types of people he deals with. Izzo was pushing them and explaining to them that they came from bad areas, but not everybody has the habits of those they grew up around.

I can't post it all here, but it was one of the most inspiring life speeches I've ever heard. He was so intense and he was telling them things that won't make them good basketball players but successful people in life.

Does he swear, YES. Is he harsh and intense? Yup. But, I've never heard anyone so determined to get kids on the right track. I have a whole new respect for him.

Okay, here is the outlook for the team. They are going to be bad. Real bad. 1/2 of it isn't there fault. Izzo saved schollies for next year. Smart move. I believe it will win them a National Championship. But, it sucks for this year. They need athletic guards (ex. Summers/Allen).

The other 1/2 is the fault of the big men. They suck. Sutton is good. The others are worthless. They have no hands! Can't rebound, can't catch the ball. Garbage. Naymick was a joke. Here is what you should expect from individual players.

Neitzel- Unbelievable. Missed 3 shots the entire practice. Just deadly. If he had Brown, he'd be a 20 pt per game guy. But, I think teams are going to double him like crazy.

Walton- The other captain. Pretty solid, but he's learning to be the #1 pg and struggling a bit with that.

MoJo- Much bigger. Biggest gain on the team with strength, however he did not impress. No fire or attitude. Specs gone, tatoo added, freshman aggressiveness still there.

Raymar Morgan- Will be awesome. Looks like a senior. Arms have gotten so big and he's strong. But, he injured his shoulder yesterday and I really hope it's not bad. It could be though. They need him big time. They will post him up on smaller guards alot. Think Tucker from Wisconsin.

Dahlman- will be good eventually, but he's two years away.

Herzog- hands down the tallest players I've ever seen at MSU. By far the longest arms I've ever seen. But, once again he's a down the road player.

Quise- probably the most gifted player on the team in terms of freakish strength and athletic ability. But, he's not smart. He tries really hard, but he just struggles.

Naymick- Garbage. Looked like a freshman. Missed a layup at one point. Was trying way too hard with parents watching. Tried to start Izzo's new tough attitude for the season and just ended up hammering guys. Got in a little fight with Ibok.

Ibok- Garbage. Hasn't got stronger. He's strictly defense. Too weak to rebound. No offense.

Sutton- took on more of a leadership role. Was better than last year, but I was disappointed in his size. I expected more muscle. Overall I was a little disappointed.

Those are the main guys. Kid from Saginaw might give a couple of minutes if needed. He's way too short.

The biggest difference between this year and last was the team chemistry. Lots of guys were arguing with one another, no leaders, lots of a little fights breaking out. Some of this was due to Izzo wanting guys to be more physical therefore there were players getting pissed. We'll know real soon if this is a team with no chemistry or if this is a real tough team that was showing it in practice.

I liked the upbeat, loud, enthusiastic practice last year much more. But like I said in other threads. Izzo is going to lay the foundation for a tough team in the future. MSU will not make the tourney this year though. Not a chance. 2 games above .500 at best. We are just going to have to have some patience.

Interesting how much he was bad-mouthing current and former players. I think a lot of players would be turned off by that if they knew it going in.

He doesn't do it behind the players backs, he does it right to their face. I listened to him say the same exact things to players faces during practice. Funny that you mentioned that, he mentioned to the freshman at one point that his biggest strength and weakness is brutal honesty.

He said, "if a player is busting his ass I will tell everybody about it. But, if you are giving half effort then I will tell you to your face that you won't make it."

It's actually more of a coaching style you'll find in the inner city. In the inner city, you'll find parents and coaches making kids tough by taking verbal shots at them and challenging them in front of everyone. Izzo told the freshmen that he will challenge them and make their lives hell in attempt to make them tough mentally and physically.

He followed by citing players that did something about it when they were challenged (Antonio) and players that didn't (Davis). I think that's why you saw Izzo so frustrated with Davis all the time.

I understand. And I agree that you can't just sprinkle baby powder on a player that isn't giving you full effort. What I'm saying is, do the recruits know about it? Izzo gets recruits based on results, and he gets the results because he doesn't accept a guy being a pansy. But a big-time high school recruit may not always see the value of hard work and a coach screaming at them and calling them out. I'm guessing there are guys that State is recruiting right now that wouldn't be feeling it quite as much if they were completely aware of this and understood it could be them getting called out. Sure, some guys would feel it even more and respect it like they should. But I think others want a year or two of a cakewalk to the Association. I think State has recruited both, and you've seen what has happened to the latter.

Ehhh...Bobby Knight always had good teams. Recruits know what they are getting into...

I had a coach like that in college and it sucked. It sounds like Izzo is 10 times worse. Maybe it's just me, but I just can't play for a coach like that. I don't respond well to personal attacks and swearing, just pisses me off.

To this day, my college basketball coach is my least favorite human being I've ever come in contact with.

I think that it depends on how it's said, if it's a rip you down to build you up thing, I can handle it. If the coach is just an ass, then fuck 'em.

I'm guess that the 'learn fast unlike Quise' thing, was more of a joke thing, then a 'Quise is stupid' thing, if it wasn't then fuck Izzo, if normal, it's cool with me, joking about someone screwing up is something that every coach does.

If there is a coach that does the pure push you down shit, I'll play better(well at least harder), but I'm also liable to, um, lash out, at a coach like that.

I'll kick ass, then say a couple words to the coach, run some, and not play the sport the next year. At least growing up that's how it was(usually).

Ehhh...Bobby Knight always had good teams. Recruits know what they are getting into...

You are exactly right. Jethro, Izzo spoke at the BCAM two years ago and he told us that he tells recruits right up front what he's like and he has them attend practices as well. He said that he tells the kids that he is going to test them mentally and that they will hate him often. But, he said that he also explains that he does this to make them tough and to help them be successful. Many of them actually like being tested by a father figure because they have never had one.

That is what DetroitSportsCity is talking about. Izzo does it with purpose and he shows that he's not just being an ass when he has individual meetings with them. The one I listened to with Raymar showed his purpose and that he cares about the kids.

Moodini the difference between Dickhead SVSU boy and Izzo is that Izzo has a plan and he explains to his recruits that he's trying to make them tougher. He lets them know what is coming. Dickhead put on a smile for you guys and then turned into a different person once you were there. Completely different.

Out look on the team = they almost got pancaked by GVSU

Out look on the team = they almost got pancaked by GVSU

Without 2 starters. Meaning that we had 8 scholarship players.

Not that that isn't VERY alarming, an exhibition vs. a decent team(27-4, 1 player lost from last year) can cause some problems though.

Morgan will have to be a man, and Gray will need to be good, and Trannon coming back looks like it could be important.

Still, I think you're jumping the gun a bit.

You are exactly right. Jethro, Izzo spoke at the BCAM two years ago and he told us that he tells recruits right up front what he's like and he has them attend practices as well. He said that he tells the kids that he is going to test them mentally and that they will hate him often. But, he said that he also explains that he does this to make them tough and to help them be successful. Many of them actually like being tested by a father figure because they have never had one.

That is what DetroitSportsCity is talking about. Izzo does it with purpose and he shows that he's not just being an ass when he has individual meetings with them. The one I listened to with Raymar showed his purpose and that he cares about the kids.

Moodini the difference between Dickhead SVSU boy and Izzo is that Izzo has a plan and he explains to his recruits that he's trying to make them tougher. He lets them know what is coming. Dickhead put on a smile for you guys and then turned into a different person once you were there. Completely different.
Coach Peck?

The Michigan fans will be typical Michigan fans this season Detroit. They will rip the MSU basketball team, they will view this as their great opportunity to take shots at the program, I'm sure a few will even claim that this is the end of an era.

Then the triplets will ride into EL next season and embarrass the jokers in AA as usual.

UM fans aren't capable of looking at this season for what it is and acknowledge the fact that MSU is in an in between year. They've saved up a decade's worth of frustration and I'm sure they'll try to take it out this season.

No offense Tre, but the recruiting class we have this year is doing good, and what we have coming in next year is nothing to scoff at. With that said, rankings in the grand scheme don't mean shit, but how the recruits progress, and not nearly enough of UM's prized recruits get to the level that most fans like us hope they would. But making your pre-season opt out excuse by basically giving up on this year, and already looking to next year seems pretty weak.

No offense Tre, but the recruiting class we have this year is doing good, and what we have coming in next year is nothing to scoff at. With that said, rankings in the grand scheme don't mean shit, but how the recruits progress, and not nearly enough of UM's prized recruits get to the level that most fans like us hope they would. But making your pre-season opt out excuse by basically giving up on this year, and already looking to next year seems pretty weak.

First of all, Tommy Amaker has proved time and time again that he can't turn hs superstars into great college players. It's not going to dramatically change.

Sorry Jickboy but this is just more typical Michigan stuff. If I rant and rave about MSU and predict great things, you guys complain and say I've got blinders. If I am honest and realistic, I'm opting out and giving up. I'm tired of this two sided crap.

I saw the team up close and personal and I know what to expect. As I've said before, I'm still excited to see if they can surprise. But being a realistic fan is a good thing, I shouldn't get crap for it. No matter what I say, some UM fan will have something to say about it so I don't really care. I know that this will be a NIT year. But, I also know that the show is on its way.

Then the triplets will ride into EL next season and embarrass the jokers in AA as usual.

Dude, relax. I know rankings don't mean everything. But "the triplets" are all 4 star prospects now. Michigan will have 3 4 star prospects too in DeShawn Sims, Alex Legion, and Manny Harris. Legion (#38) and Harris (#36) are both ranked ahead of Lucas (#39) and Summers (#51).

Hype those cats all you want, but they're just solid 4 stars and remember they'll be true freshmen, that doesn't mean immediate greatness.

If Michigan gets Roe and 4 star big man Kenny Frease in 2008, look out.

I'm just waiting to hear Tre clarify who he is talking about when he says "typical Michigan fans", and how he backs that up and differentiates it from typical Spartan fans or any typical fans in an instate rivalry situation.

Dude, relax. I know rankings don't mean everything. But "the triplets" are all 4 star prospects now. Michigan will have 3 4 star prospects too in DeShawn Sims, Alex Legion, and Manny Harris. Legion (#38) and Harris (#36) are both ranked ahead of Lucas (#39) and Summers (#51).

Hype those cats all you want, but they're just solid 4 stars and remember they'll be true freshmen, that doesn't mean immediate greatness.

If Michigan gets Roe and 4 star big man Kenny Frease in 2008, look out.
hahahaa. great post

Dude, relax. I know rankings don't mean everything. But "the triplets" are all 4 star prospects now. Michigan will have 3 4 star prospects too in DeShawn Sims, Alex Legion, and Manny Harris. Legion (#38) and Harris (#36) are both ranked ahead of Lucas (#39) and Summers (#51).

Hype those cats all you want, but they're just solid 4 stars and remember they'll be true freshmen, that doesn't mean immediate greatness.

If Michigan gets Roe and 4 star big man Kenny Frease in 2008, look out.

You are right, rankings are just that. So, what was your impression of Mr. Lucas in person Moodini?

I don't want to hear any of your crap about looking out, etc. 4 years ago you claimed, "Michigan now owns basketball!" How did that work out for ya? You've declared Michigan Basketball dead like 3 times only to jump back on afterwards within the last year. I'll take that "look out" with a 1/2 of a grain of salt.

I'm just waiting to hear Tre clarify who he is talking about when he says "typical Michigan fans", and how he backs that up and differentiates it from typical Spartan fans or any typical fans in an instate rivalry situation.

Difference being, I'm not going to ignore common sense and post like an idiot. When Michigan lost 1/2 of its basketball team year before last, I wasn't all over message boards talking about how much of a joke they are. I understood that they couldn't control 5 key injuries. I enjoyed it, but I wasn't ignorant. I like to think that I post and behave like an intelligent fan. You won't find me acting ignorant like a middle schooler leaving newspapers on fans doorsteps.

Michigan fans will ignore the fact that State lost 3 guys to the NBA and ignore the fact that Izzo sacrificed a year for the future. They'll look at it as an opportunity to rip State. Muhme started it after 1 freaking exhibition game and proved my point. I went to the MLive Spartan BBall forum and there were Michigan fans all over ripping State. It's hilarious and pathetic. Maybe I'm stereotyping, but until I see different, that's what I'll expect from Michigan fans.

You are right, rankings are just that. So, what was your impression of Mr. Lucas in person Moodini?

Definitely impressive. Maybe the quickest guard I've ever seen at the high school level. But with that being said, I haven't seen Legion or Harris play in person and they may be better prospects than Lucas and Summers. Trained scouts say they are.

Definitely impressive. Maybe the quickest guard I've ever seen at the high school level. But with that being said, I haven't seen Legion or Harris play in person and they may be better prospects than Lucas and Summers. Trained scouts say they are.

History has told us to stick with MSU recruits. There have been several highly touted recruits that came to Michigan with rankings comparable to MSU recruits. How many of those ended up being players that Izzo would have wanted on his team?

You mention that some of Michigan's recruits are just as good as State's according to the rankings, but I think they are very misleading. Summers was ranked as high as #8 overall in the country. Lucas was as high as #14 overall in the country. Those guys dropped this summer and many believe it was because they did not attend as many "show what I've got camps" and they didn't need to impress like the year prior. Some Lansing State journal writers have already written articles stating that they believe next year's team might be the best team Izzo has ever assembled. When it is all said and done, these boys will be cutting down nets. Mark that shit down.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/22/220391.jpgDurrell Summers, courtest of gobluewolverine.com

Difference being, I'm not going to ignore common sense and post like an idiot. When Michigan lost 1/2 of its basketball team year before last, I wasn't all over message boards talking about how much of a joke they are. I understood that they couldn't control 5 key injuries. I enjoyed it, but I wasn't ignorant. I like to think that I post and behave like an intelligent fan. You won't find me acting ignorant like a middle schooler leaving newspapers on fans doorsteps.

Michigan fans will ignore the fact that State lost 3 guys to the NBA and ignore the fact that Izzo sacrificed a year for the future. They'll look at it as an opportunity to rip State. Muhme started it after 1 freaking exhibition game and proved my point. I went to the MLive Spartan BBall forum and there were Michigan fans all over ripping State. It's hilarious and pathetic. Maybe I'm stereotyping, but until I see different, that's what I'll expect from Michigan fans.
Are you really making that statement? You've referenced a number of times your feelings about Michigan basketball and that you think they're a joke regardless of health. You've said that any time Michigan fans reference the injuries that they're whining or making excuses.
I guess you have your cake and you're eating it, too.

(waiting to hear the classic "You're putting words in my mouth" and prepared to back it up with quotes)

Are you really making that statement? You've referenced a number of times your feelings about Michigan basketball and that you think they're a joke regardless of health. You've said that any time Michigan fans reference the injuries that they're whining or making excuses.
I guess you have your cake and you're eating it, too.

I've said they are a joke because they've been a joke for over a decade! They weren't a joke because of one injury plagued season. The reason I said I didn't want to hear whining about it was because I was mocking Moodini who said that to us during the same football season. I can provide quotes from that too if you want them.

If you remember, MSU's football team was plagued the same year with injuries and Moodini was saying we were whining and "you have to be good enough to overcome injuries." Therefore I threw it back at him.

I didn't go through threads ripping their team and acting ignorant. I wouldn't get in a quote battle, ask Moodini, I'll win that one every time.

Some Lansing State journal writers have already written articles stating that they believe next year's team might be the best team Izzo has ever assembled

Surprising that a Lansing based newspaper would predict success for East Lansing's MSU Spartans...never saw that coming.

Surprising that a Lansing based newspaper would predict success for East Lansing's MSU Spartans...never saw that coming.
Of course Lansin papers are going to be biased, but that is pretty bold considering Izzo has had 4 Final Four teams and a National Championship team.

The best ever assembled? So wait, they have the talent right now for you to say they should be 6th in the Big Ten, and yet a class of 3 kids coming in (while others leave) is enough to be the best he's ever had? I would think you would be pissed about that. 3 guys who haven't played a second of ball in their senior season are being crowned as better than Cleaves and crew? That's freaking ridiculous.

The best ever assembled? So wait, they have the talent right now for you to say they should be 6th in the Big Ten, and yet a class of 3 kids coming in (while others leave) is enough to be the best he's ever had? I would think you would be pissed about that. 3 guys who haven't played a second of ball in their senior season are being crowned as better than Cleaves and crew? That's freaking ridiculous.

Nope, noone is leaving, well except Trannon, but he is officially a football player. Not even the walkons are leaving.

Yup, he's right. Do your homework Jethro. Nobody will be leaving. Keep in mind, those aren't my words. They are LSJ writers' words. I don't believe they will be better than the Flintstones, but those statements speak volumes of what is to come.

You have to go to 3 Final Fours and win a National Championship to top the Stones in my book. You run back in the history of college basketball and you probably won't find one group to do that.

When you run through their position by position roster, it's easy to see what is coming:

PG-Neitzel
Backup- Kalin Lucas/Walton

SG- Walton/Summers/Allen/MoJo (Think they'll be running again? haha)

SF- Raymar Morgan
backup-Dahlman

PF- Gray
backup- Naymick, Ibok, Morgan

C- Suton
backup-Herzog, Naymick, Ibok

Tre, that roster looks really soft up front.

So wait, you're hyping Neitzel up as a player this year and statistically he should be the saving grace of the program, and you're not even considering the chances of him leaving? Why stay? So you can spend your senior year hearing about a stud freshman class?

Duh, do your homework Jethro. Fuck the homework. The truth is that you have no clue who could be leaving. How much homework did you do when you said their was very little chance Brown would leave? Wait, only if he did so well at the camps that he was a lottery pick? But in reality, he was just going to the camps to see what he needed to work on?
How did that pan out? 25th pick overall? Hardly a sure thing and yet he was gone. Stick your "homework" up your ass along with your writers and their premature ejaculations.

[smilie=jaw-droppin:

So wait, you're hyping Neitzel up as a player this year and statistically he should be the saving grace of the program, and you're not even considering the chances of him leaving? Why stay? So you can spend your senior year hearing about a stud freshman class?

Duh, do your homework Jethro. Fuck the homework. The truth is that you have no clue who could be leaving. How much homework did you do when you said their was very little chance Brown would leave? Wait, only if he did so well at the camps that he was a lottery pick? But in reality, he was just going to the camps to see what he needed to work on?
How did that pan out? 25th pick overall? Hardly a sure thing and yet he was gone. Stick your "homework" up your ass along with your writers and their premature ejaculations.

How about - 6 foot white PG's don't leave early often, ultra athletic SG's coming off amazing season do. Not to mention, Mr. 6 foot whitey is probably going to be playing for an average team. PG's get drafted on either leadership(Cleaves) or athletcism(Rondo), if you are on an average team, and aren't very athletic, then you will likely not be that highly thought of.

Plus I don't think he'll mind actually having some guards next year.

So wait, you're hyping Neitzel up as a player this year and statistically he should be the saving grace of the program, and you're not even considering the chances of him leaving? Why stay? So you can spend your senior year hearing about a stud freshman class?

Duh, do your homework Jethro. Fuck the homework. The truth is that you have no clue who could be leaving. How much homework did you do when you said their was very little chance Brown would leave? Wait, only if he did so well at the camps that he was a lottery pick? But in reality, he was just going to the camps to see what he needed to work on?
How did that pan out? 25th pick overall? Hardly a sure thing and yet he was gone. Stick your "homework" up your ass along with your writers and their premature ejaculations.

You stole my thunder Detroit. What a joke of a post. Neitzel could be a great college point guard this year. But, he's a 6 ft white point guard. A little different than a 6'3" SG with a 44 in. vertical. I don't even know why I'm responding to this.

Moodini, maybe soft up front. But, Suton should be a great center by next year, Gray will be strong enough and athletic enough to rebound, and Raymar looks to be a great rebounder too. They won't need tons of inside strength with the guards they have. They'll be running early and often. They still will have more up front than the 2005 Final Four team. That team played Anderson at PF.

I forgot my favorite part of Jethro's post. "Why stay?" Ummm... let's see, leave early and go undrafted or stay, play on a Top 10 team, and get stronger to try to make the NBA. Tough call Jethro.

It wasn't a tough choice for Marcus Taylor, was it?

It wasn't a tough choice for Marcus Taylor, was it?

Marcus Taylor was a 6'3" former McDonald's All American that led the Big Ten in scoring and assists as a SOPHMORE!

Bad comparison.

Ok, but check out the comparison more. Was Taylor fast or "athletic"? Not really, by most standards. His numbers were 17.7 ppg and 5.0 apg. Ok, Neitzel has already beaten the 5.0 apg last year, and could easily top the 17.7 ppg this year.
Taylor left a team that lost in the first round when the team the next year went to the elite 8. The incoming class was Davis, Ager, Trannon, Rowley and Lorbek.
Taylor left to be the 52nd pick, then got cut, then was picked 110th in the NBDL draft, then got cut.

Based on THAT story, is it impossible to imagine the current State PG leaving early even if his draft prospects might not be great? Of course it is.
In fact, his draft prospects would be much better - even at 6'0" and white - than Taylor's were.

Ok, but check out the comparison more. Was Taylor fast or "athletic"? Not really, by most standards. His numbers were 17.7 ppg and 5.0 apg. Ok, Neitzel has already beaten the 5.0 apg last year, and could easily top the 17.7 ppg this year.
Taylor left a team that lost in the first round when the team the next year went to the elite 8. The incoming class was Davis, Ager, Trannon, Rowley and Lorbek.
Taylor left to be the 52nd pick, then got cut, then was picked 110th in the NBDL draft, then got cut.

Based on THAT story, is it impossible to imagine the current State PG leaving early even if his draft prospects might not be great? Of course it is.
In fact, his draft prospects would be much better - even at 6'0" and white - than Taylor's were.

Dude, do you really believe all that? Do you really think Drew Neitzel could leave early? If you really believe that, I don't know what to tell ya. Drew Neitzel is an intelligent kid. Gets really good grades. Marcus Taylor was a moron with an idiot father who was banned from practice while Taylor was screwing his teammate's (Torbert) girlfriend.