WTFDetroit.com

View Full Version : More Tay, Flip loves 3's, Delfino watch, zone defense



Glenn
10-02-2006, 09:20 AM
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061002/SPORTS0102/610020324/1004/SPORTS


There'll be new look to team

Saunders predicts Prince is ready to ascend to stardom status with expanded offensive role.

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

AUBURN HILLS -- Day one of the Pistons' post-'fro era starts today. For the first time this century, the Pistons will commence a new season without Ben Wallace.

"Everybody knows what Ben did for this organization," coach Flip Saunders said. "He was a great player, a good teammate and there is no question he will be missed. But the rest of these guys here have been traded before, or cut and kicked around this league. They've gone through it. They understand it. They will move on."

Wallace signed a four-year $60 million contract with Central Division rival Chicago. The Pistons moved on by signing eight-year veteran center Nazr Mohammed and offensive-minded combo guard Flip Murray. Those signings didn't exactly create much buzz nationally, as most publications and Web sites anticipate the Pistons taking a few steps back this season.

"That's fine," Saunders said. "This team, the last four years, has always played better when its back has been against the wall. Ben's gone and people are saying we're going to have a fall-off. That's something our guys look at.

"The way I see it, this team still has four all-stars. It's just that one name is going to change."

Punch Tayshaun Prince's name on your All-Star ballot instead of Wallace, and put him with Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton and Rasheed Wallace.

"I think you are going to see more from Tayshaun this year," Saunders said. "I think he's going to get more post-up opportunities. You saw in the playoffs, he was one of our most consistent players. He became a go-to guy for us."

No longer will Prince be the fourth option for the Pistons. He could be the first in many of Saunders' offensive sets. Not only will he be used in his usual small-forward role, Saunders also envisions going to a smaller lineup more frequently, using Prince in a hybrid power-forward role similar to the way Phoenix uses Shawn Marion.

A larger role for Prince is just one of the new features of the post-'fro Pistons. As training camp begins, here are a few others to keep an eye on.

No more co-captaincy
Leadership of the team, both on and off the court, is pretty much on Billups' shoulders now. He and Wallace shared the duties the last four years. Though there were never any issues between the two, it was clear there was a growing, though silent, struggle for control.

Wallace wanted the Pistons to remain a defensive-oriented, low-possession team. After the Pistons won the title in 2004 and the rules were altered to facilitate more offensive flow, Billups and others began pushing to play a faster-paced offensive game.

Once the Pistons hired offensive-minded Saunders as coach, it was clear which style of play would win out.

"I think Chauncey relishes the fact that this is his team now," Saunders said. "The thing about Chauncey taking over, he has the ability to make so many big plays. You always want your big-play guy to be your leader if possible. There's going to be no ifs, ands or buts -- everything is coming from one voice."

The full Saunders
The Pistons are going to miss Ben Wallace on the defensive end and on the boards. They are going to miss his intensity and his ability to intimidate the opposition. What they won't miss, however, are his offensive limitations.

Saunders estimates that he only could use about 25 percent of his offense last season. With Mohammed starting and Antonio McDyess playing an increased role, Saunders expects to be able to use his entire playbook.

The Pistons ranked dead last in points in the paint last season and near the top in three-point attempts. Saunders had his staff break down every three-point shot taken in every game last year, as well as break down the points in the paint vs. the potential points in the paint. The results were enlightening.

"We figured out that we would have had to shoot 61 percent on two-point shots to match the production of our three-point shots, over the same amount of shots," Saunders said. "People talked about our points in the paint, but the potential for points in the paint is a better measure."

In other words, the Pistons' offense wasn't as inefficient from beyond the arc or as perimeter heavy as it might have appeared. Saunders said he believes with Mohammed and McDyess, and running more sets for Rasheed Wallace and Prince on the block, the Pistons should create a better inside-outside balance.

Bench press
It's time for Carlos Delfino to put up or shut up. Every summer he goes home to Argentina and we are bombarded by reports that he's unhappy sitting on the bench in Detroit and bewildered as to why he isn't given an opportunity to play. Every camp he comes back saying he loves being a Piston and those comments were taken out of context.

Enough already. The deck has been cleared for Delfino. Maurice Evans was traded to the Lakers.

"It's a two-way street," Saunders said. "There is no question he gained some confidence this summer (playing for the Argentine national team). He has the opportunity to show us he deserves to play and we have the opportunity to show him that there are minutes for him to play. He no longer has to come to the arena wondering whether he's playing or not."

One of the primary priorities of this camp will be to establish the bench. The Pistons are going to count on Delfino, Murray and McDyess to play heavy minutes, particularly early in the season.

"We have to develop a stronger bench so that we can have more pop come late in the year," Saunders said.

Dale Davis and Jason Maxiell will also be in competition for major minutes early in the year as the Pistons are going to be more conscious of 32-year-old Rasheed Wallace's work load.

In a zone
There's no debate about it this year. The Pistons will deploy more zone defenses. You saw Pat Riley's Miami team use zone defense in the playoffs. Dallas played zone in the Finals. With the way the games are being officiated, teams can no longer succeed playing straight man-to-man defense.

"With the way the rules are, you can't defend players like Dwyane Wade or LeBron James with man defense," Saunders said. "I think we saw that in the playoffs. When teams like Miami and Dallas went to the zone, they had more success. The little bit we played it, we had success."

Don't misunderstand. The Pistons aren't all of a sudden going to look like one of Jud Heathcote's Michigan State teams. Defenses are so well disguised these days, it's often hard to distinguish man from zone.

Very few 64-win teams have been written off as quickly as the Pistons seemingly have. Especially a 64-win team with as much firepower coming back as this team has. But that might play right into their hands.

"That's good," Rasheed Wallace said. "Let them hate on us. We don't want them bandwagon cats around here anyway."

All that and still no report on the training camp roster.

Glenn
10-02-2006, 09:46 AM
Punch Tayshaun Prince's name on your All-Star ballot instead of Wallace, and put him with Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton and Rasheed Wallace.

I've read this like 3 times, is this a suggestion from McCosky? I wonder how Keith Langlois feels about this.

metr0man
10-02-2006, 09:53 AM
"We figured out that we would have had to shoot 61 percent on two-point shots to match the production of our three-point shots, over the same amount of shots," Saunders said. "People talked about our points in the paint, but the potential for points in the paint is a better measure."

Here we go again.

And I do mean AGAIN. I wonder if his defender(s) will actually use the same dumbass arguments they used during last season's grind before every worry about Flip's offense came true in the playoffs. Maybe you can actually go and just copy/paste from the archives.

Glenn
10-02-2006, 09:57 AM
I love how there is no mention how that philosophy effects your rebounding, your ability to get to the FT line, your ability to get a interior basket in crunch time or when the jumpers aren't falling.

Just keep shooting more of them and it will all work out.

Why didn't we just hire Rick Pitino?

Fool
10-02-2006, 10:07 AM
Why didn't we just hire Rick Pitino?

Leadership of the team, both on and off the court, is pretty much on Billups' shoulders now.

Fool
10-02-2006, 10:20 AM
All that and still no report on the training camp roster.

Glenn, I'm pretty sure you can't credit Krista for this but what the hell.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061001/SPORTS03/610010659/1051/
(look to the side, in grey)

Glenn
10-02-2006, 10:29 AM
Thank you, Fool.

I can die happier now.


The team has 14 players under guaranteed contracts, including rookie point guard Will Blalock, second-year forwards Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson and the returning Ronald Dupree. Two training camp invitations -- Rick Rickert and Rob Griffin -- will get a chance to play with the team until the end of October, but they won't make the roster.

How can that be a 100% given?

Matt
10-02-2006, 11:14 AM
"The way I see it, this team still has four all-stars. It's just that one name is going to change."

Punch Tayshaun Prince's name on your All-Star ballot instead of Wallace, and put him with Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton and Rasheed Wallace.

Prince making the All-Star team would be fantastic, but Sheed making it again would be really great, imo. he might have been borderline last season and if he can make two in a row, that means he's putting up great numbers for us.

Matt
10-02-2006, 11:50 AM
Thank you, Fool.

I can die happier now.



How can that be a 100% given?

btw, looks like McCosky did report the full TC roster on 9/28, but it was in his blog:


A couple of Pistons notes. There will be no surprises at camp. Besides the 14 contract players, the Pistons are only bringing in two other players. Former Minnesota Gopher forward Rick Rickert, who was on the Pistons summer league team. His former claim to fame is getting punched in the face by Kevin Garnett in a pick-up game one summer. The other is a local kid from Bellville, MI, Rob Griffin, a shooting guard who played at Iowa. Neither is likely to make the team.

link to detnews blogs (http://info.detnews.com/pistonsblog/index.cfm)

Fool
10-02-2006, 12:01 PM
Glenn =

http://www.lglan.net/vbdump/tribal/2001_justin-owned.jpg

P.S. Why is Mary J. Blidge so distraught?

Glenn
10-02-2006, 12:15 PM
Anybody else find it funny that since the Keith Langlois appointment, McCosky has started kicking out content?

I know it probably coincides with training camp opening, but still...

Keith Langlois is my Tig...um, Pistons-bought and paid for writer.

Black Dynamite
10-02-2006, 02:51 PM
Glenn =

http://www.lglan.net/vbdump/tribal/2001_justin-owned.jpg

P.S. Why is Mary J. Blidge so distraught?
lol...thats exactly what i thought. Mary J doesnt like lesbians? this is bad news.[smilie=sayitaintso:

b-diddy
10-02-2006, 05:45 PM
sheed allstar again? right. that'll be a fun time, coming about 2 weeks after the lions win the superbowl. sounds good.

Cross
10-03-2006, 09:09 AM
sheed allstar again? right. that'll be a fun time, coming about 2 weeks after the lions win the superbowl. sounds good.

Never know. What if Bosh and Jerm go down in an injury and Sheed plants his ass in the post and OWNS THE FUCKING LEAGUE>>BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

metr0man
10-04-2006, 11:04 AM
Sheed planting himself in the post, with Flip "we'd have to shoot 61% on our twos to match our 3 point output" Saunders as coach? Nice fantasy :D

Matt
10-04-2006, 11:06 AM
Anybody else find it funny that since the Keith Langlois appointment, McCosky has started kicking out content?

I know it probably coincides with training camp opening, but still...

Keith Langlois is my Tig...um, Pistons-bought and paid for writer.

i've been noticing a lot more krista jahnke articles too.....[smilie=snakes]

Glenn
10-06-2006, 07:42 AM
More on Flip's zone

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/zonedin_061005.html


Zoned In

By Keith Langlois

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- When Bill Musselman went back to his Ohio roots to recruit a gym rat of a point guard for his Minnesota Golden Gophers in the early ’70s, he was a devotee of a matchup zone defense that was as hard to score against as it was to describe.

“The hyperbolic paraboloid transitional floating zone,” that gym rat of a point guard, Flip Saunders, still smiles as he recalls it. “That’s all we played. We led the country in field-goal percentage defense. Teams shot 37 or 38 percent against us. We had a lot of length and quickness. It was really more of a switching man to man. It confused them even more.”

When the NBA first allowed the zone, Saunders was coaching the Minnesota Timberwolves where another ex-Gopher, Kevin McHale, was running the team. McHale was a freshman when Saunders was a senior in the 1976-77 season when Minnesota went 24-3.

And when the Gophers went to their bench to bring in the gangly McHale to pair with 6-foot-10 Mychal Thompson, who would become the No. 1 overall pick in the 1978 draft, surrounded by lightning-quick Ray Williams, another future first-rounder, the combination of size and speed suffocated offenses and sealed passing lanes.

So when McHale hired Saunders to coach the T-Wolves, it was only natural that they would become one of the very first NBA teams to give the zone an honest trial. It seemed equally logical that when the Pistons hired Saunders a year ago, they’d slowly integrate the hyperbolic paraboloid transitional floating zone into their defensive blueprint.

But it never really happened.

It’s going to this year.

On the day he was hired to replace Larry Brown, Saunders seemed almost giddy at the prospect of utilizing the zone with the personnel at hand.

Ben Wallace in the middle, where his quickness and timing as a shot-blocker would enable the teammates closest to him on either side to cheat to the sideline to crowd wing or corner shooters.

The length of Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince making passing angles painfully acute and lobs over the top preposterously risky.

Rip Hamilton’s reach and quick feet closing the gaps too fast on the jump-shooting snipers who might occasionally find a seam, and Chauncey Billups’ strength and quickness steering ballhandlers to disadvantageous spots.

If you drew up a roster best equipped to play the Musselman zone, it would look an awful lot like the one Flip Saunders inherited here.

“We do have the right personnel to go zone,” Prince said. “You know me. I’m not big on zones. I like guarding man to man. I know Flip is really good at relying on the zone and it did help us out at times last year. I know he’ll be using it a little more than last year.”

If you sense in there a certain lukewarm embrace, you’re right. The man-to-man defense is so ingrained in NBA culture, the league-wide perception is that it takes a lesser man to play zone. Rasheed Wallace is the Pistons’ most notorious and vociferous proponent of that view.

Ultimately, however, an NBA player’s manhood is best certified by winning championships, and this year’s group seems more open to the championship-producing possibilities of a zone than last year’s, when it was no secret at all that Ben Wallace recoiled at the very thought. It also can’t hurt their receptiveness that the Pistons have gone two straight offseasons without adding to their trophy collection.

“Flip will play zone this year,” said John Hammond, vice president of basketball operations. “Nazr (Mohammed) is long, really long. Rasheed is long. Rip’s long for his position. Tayshaun, really long. We’ve got a team that can do it. Flip will be comfortable doing that. He did it in Minnesota and had success with it. I think you’ll see him use it much more consistently and more frequently. It will be a part of our defensive game plan for most every game, probably.”

The day an NBA team becomes a predominantly zone team is a long way off, if it ever comes. It would take a very secure coach to even try it.

“NBA players are too good,” Hammond said. “They’ll find a weakness, read a weakness, and they shoot the ball too well to ever play a full-time zone. But I like it and I think there’s a definite need and time and place for a zone.”

When might that be? The other team’s in an offensive funk and the coach calls timeout to set up a bread-and-butter play.

“Now you come out and show them a zone,” Hammond said. “They might score, but it won’t be on that bread-and-butter play.”

Or this: They’ve just shot 10 for 12, spotted a mismatch and you can’t stop it.

“Teams on a run, give them a different look,” Hammond said. “When the U.S. team was beaten by Greece this summer (in the World Championships), I read Dwyane Wade’s comments after the game. He wasn’t being critical of (Mike Krzyzewski), but he said, ‘We had such a difficult time stopping their screen-and-roll, I wished we would have changed up and showed them a little zone.”

And if it’s good enough for Dwyane Wade, who has a shiny new bauble adorning his ring finger, it should be good enough for anybody.

“I don’t think there’s very much of a macho thing anymore, if at all,” Hammond said. “Guys understand the theory behind it. It’s good, sound basketball to give them a different look.”

“Our league has changed,” Saunders said. “When the rules changed two years ago, it hurt your effectiveness in playing man-to-man. You have to be able to play a zone. Because of the length of this team and their basketball IQ, we can be a very good zone team.”

Maybe even one that’s as hard to score against as the team Bill Musselman put in the hands of a gym rat who shared his Ohio roots.

Matt
10-06-2006, 09:48 AM
i don't see why the players can't mix in an effective zone at times. no one's saying the team will play zone exclusively.

Pharaoh
10-08-2006, 05:01 AM
The fact is a quality team needs to be comfortable playing a lot of different defensive styles.

I don't understand how some people can argue for a varied offensive system and at the same time argue against a team being capable of playing various different defenses.

The league might try to convince you that only one end of the court counts, but as real fans of the game and as Detroit fans one would think we'd know better