We know we're getting a good pick.

We don't know who is going to make that pick, hopefully not Millen, but it's possible.

If it is Millen, then we know the player chosen will not pan out.

Nonetheless, what position do you think is the area of biggest need?

If you want to get specific and throw out some player names, that's fine too.

not a lions fan so im not as familiar with the team as a lot of you guys are, but stanton is in the 2007 class. why not go for the local? i think your O-line has some holes to fill right? joe thomas will be available and is a pretty good pancaker at 6'8 310.

you think theres a chance millen is fired this year? i dont.

as far as the draft, i'd agree, get an offensive lineman. but who cares, the mismanagement is so bad it really doesnt matter.

i dont know the cba of the nfl that well, but mistakes like the bradford signing, and subsequent cap penalties, are just rediculous.

Greg Oden.

Oh, this is the NFL thread.

We need a DE so bad it makes my balls bleed into my sack.

I want a motherfucking lineman.

Options:
Joe Thomas OT Wiscy
Jason Blaylock OT Texas
Levi Brown OT PSU
Quentin Moses DE Georgia

Who we'll really take:
Stanton or Calvin Johnson

Stanton would become Archie Manning, a sweet QB on a shit ass team, and Johnson would magically go from being the perfect WR to a POS.

Here's a 2007 mock draft, looks sorta amateurish, I'll look for some better ones.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/mock_draft.htm


EDIT- http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html
Stanton! That would have "Mateen Cleaves" written all over it.

are you allowed to draft a gm?

Right now it looks like we need a DB.We are getting lit up on the pass.I think we can survive a few more years with Kitna and we could pick up some o-line in the second round.

Right now it looks like we need a DB.We are getting lit up on the pass.I think we can survive a few more years with Kitna and we could pick up some o-line in the second round.
Welcome to WTFD, sing4mylady.[smilie=llama_banan:

best defensive player possible. the next Deangelo Hall would be nice. But I'd take a LB, or DL as well. Any defensive playmaker will work.

LB's go later.

And DL would be nice, but isn't that Ron's specialty?

OL and DB would make the most sense. And there aren't any super DB's, IMO.

We have a young LB core and our DLS are ok.We could use some better ones but our DBS definetly need help.

If they draft anyone besides an O lineman it will be just another nail... how fucking stupid can one GM be?

Kiper's latest board.


Defense dominating Top 25 Big Board

By Mel Kiper Jr.
Special to ESPN.com

While the top two players on my Big Board play on the offensive side of the ball, 17 of the 25 names are defensive players -- including this week's two newcomers.

Notre Dame defensive end Victor Abiamiri is coming off a three-sack performance against Notre Dame and Florida defensive tackle Marcus Thomas showed no signs of rust against LSU after serving a two-game suspension.

1. Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame (6-3½, 225) | previous: Same
Poised, smart and at his best in pressure situations. After a comeback against Michigan State, Quinn had solid outings against Purdue and Stanford.

2. Joe Thomas, OT, Wisconsin (6-6½, 313) | previous: Same
Huge, quick and athletic with a long wingspan.

3. Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson (6-4½, 260) | previous: Same
Flashes dominating ability with his athleticism and quickness.

4. Leon Hall, CB, Michigan (5-11, 193) | previous: 7
Tough customer who also shows very good anticipation and awareness in coverage.

5. Quentin Moses, DE, Georgia (6-4, 254) | previous: 4
Mature, hard working and explosive off the edge.

6. Levi Brown, OT, Penn St. (6-4½, 325) | previous: 5
Steady and reliable at protecting the quarterback's blind side.

7. Kenny Irons, RB, Auburn (5-10½, 199) | previous: 6
Deceptively strong with great vision and balance. Another chance to shine this week against Florida's defense.

8. Quinn Pitcock, DT, Ohio St. (6-3, 297) | previous: 9
Run-stuffing dynamo who does a great job of clogging the interior.

9. Jeff Samardzija, WR, Notre Dame (6-4½, 215) | previous: 11
Super hands and concentration with outstanding speed-to-size ratio.

10. LaRon Landry, DB, LSU (6-1½, 205) | previous: Same
Four-year starter who has proven to be Mr. Reliable throughout his career.

11. Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno St. (6-0½, 200) | previous: 8
He has the size and speed (4.33 40-yard dash) with outstanding coverage technique.

12. Victor Abiamiri, DE, Notre Dame (6-4, 270) | previous rank: Unranked
He has really stepped up as a big-time pass rusher this season. Abiamiri also is one of the more durable and battle-tested ends in the country.

13. Tom Zbikowski, S, Notre Dame (5-11½, 212) | previous: Same
An aggressive ball hawk who brings a swagger to the Irish's defense. A true play-maker who also excels as a punt returner.

14. Marcus Thomas, DT, Florida (6-2½, 288) | previous rank: Unranked
Made his presence felt against LSU despite coming off a suspension. Thomas neutralizes the double team and plays with power.

15. DeMarcus "Tank" Taylor, DT, NC State (6-2¼, 310) | previous: Same
Extremely quick and very powerful. A player on the rise, Taylor was a one-man wrecking crew against Boston College. I'm eager to see him against Florida State.

16. Ryan Harris, OT, Notre Dame (6-4½, 297) | previous: 21
Light on his feet with a defensive mentality. Harris neutralizes quick outside pass rushers.

17. Daymeion Hughes, CB, California (6-0, 187) | previous: 16
Big-play cornerback for the Golden Bears. Finished strong in 2005 and it has carried over to this season. Hughes has five INT in five games.

18. David Harris, LB, Michigan (6-2, 240) | previous: 19
Fast, strong and very productive, Harris has been one of the elite defensive players in the Big Ten this season.

19. Aaron Rouse, S, Virginia Tech (6-4, 218) | previous: 18
Incredible physical specimen with rare computer numbers.

20. Brian Leonard, Rutgers, (6-1, 239) | previous: 14
He will present the NFL with a tremendous amount of versatility, either as a traditional fullback or he could operate as an H-Back.

21. Patrick Willis, LB, Mississippi (6-2, 235) | previous: 20
Tackling machine with great football sense and diagnostic ability.

22. Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska (6-6, 298) | previous: 12
You just don't see many defensive ends carrying 300 pounds who can move as well as Carriker.

23. Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn St. (6-1½, 235) | previous: 17
A productive and consistent player who studies and prepares as thoroughly as anybody.

24. Justin Harrell, DT, Tennessee (6-4 ¼, 302) | previous: Same
Prior to going down with a season-ending injury (torn biceps), Harrell was performing at the level you would expect from a first-round draft pick.

25. Michael Bush, RB, Louisville (6-2, 250) | previous: Same
He carried a first-round grade before breaking his leg in the first game of the season. If his rehabilitation goes well, Bush will be an intriguing prospect for next April's draft.

Dropped
Drew Stanton, QB, Michigan St. (6-3, 232) | previous:22
Desire to win is unmatched. Stanton brings every intangible you want at the QB position, but did not look solid in losses to Notre Dame and Ilinois.

Kyle Young, C, Fresno State (6-5, 339) | previous: 23
Experienced anchor on the Bulldogs offensive line. Great physical skills and extremely durable.

After watching Leinart shred the #1 Bears' defense, I'm really glad we passed on him.[smilie=thatsfoul.g:

Before reading about the Defensive strength of the draft, I was going to say, trade down and draft an offensive lineman.

I've had enough of drafting a QB top 3 and trading him, drafting a WR top 3 and cutting them, drafting another WR and deactivating them, etc etc etc..

We need someone who knows WTF they are doing with these HIGH draft picks. Hopefully we trade out of the spot.

It's that time again - the most exciting time of the year to be a Lions fan! Considering everyone is talking about this in every other thread, we might as well have a thread to organize it a little better.

Alright, we all know the Lions will screw this up, but who would you take with the #1 pick? Trade down? There's four good recievers out there for the Lions to choose from: Calvin Johnson, Dwayne Jarrett, Jeff Samardzija, and Tedd Ginn.

Thoughts?

It's hard to say what we should do since Kiper's board always sucks (see Mike Williams) and there is no telling who will be hyped until the combine happens. At that point we'll see who is rated highest. If Quinn, Peterson, Johnson and company are all rated in the top 3, we might be able to get a team to leapfrog Oakland if they want Quinn or Peterson. Especially if there is a big drop off to the next best RB or QB. Suppose Smith is regarded as a late first/early 2nd. A team in need of a QB in the back half of the top 10 will be in a pickle. Trade up? Reach for Smith? Not address QB in the first round? Same goes for RB's too.

That's our best case for trading down and grabbing a deeper position in the 3-7 range. If we could do that and pick up an extra 2nd rounder (or more) that would be great. I'd like to get a franchise OT there and address defensive playmakers with our 2nd and 3rd round picks.

I love playing NFL GM, but it's too soon to talk senarios. i will say I do NOT want Quinn or Peterson though. Too many holes to take a first round QB, and Peterson is better suited to a run oriented offense, plus I have faith KJ will be back strong by the middle of next year. I also don't want to take a first round WR either. First round WR's are big physical WR's and Martz uses fast small ones mostly. You can find those later in the draft.

I'm glad Glenn posted that big board. An early post mentioned the need for linemen. I think if you go offense you go Joe Thomas for sure. Defense, Gaines Adams. The earlier post mentioned Moses from Georgia, but Adams is the better pro prospect IMO. He's huge, at 6-6, 260. He runs a 4.9 40 and was originally recruited as a TE. Has the instincts necessary to bat balls down at the line (broke up 6 passes), forced 2 fumbles, recovered 3, 15.5 TFL, 10.5 of which were sacks. He's a bigger Woodley, slower by a hair.

I love playing NFL GM, but it's too soon to talk senarios. i will say I do NOT want Quinn or Peterson though. Too many holes to take a first round QB, and Peterson is better suited to a run oriented offense, plus I have faith KJ will be back strong by the middle of next year. I also don't want to take a first round WR either. First round WR's are big physical WR's and Martz uses fast small ones mostly. You can find those later in the draft.

i think it would be a huge mistake to draft for next year. we have to face reallity, we have a foundation of shit. we only have a handful of quality nfl players. so even if (huge if) we had a dream offseason, we're not going to go anyplace special next year. and imo, you can ignore the 'system' talk too. martz is gone after this year or next. who knows when marinelli gets axed.

so i disagree with your statement about not drafting peterson due to our offense.

i say, unless injuries are a true concern, take him, and build a team around a star rb. i agree the best thing we could do is draft an 0-lineman, but thats assuming we'd do other things right, too. i dont have that kind of faith. just get me a stud RB, build him a decent line and cast around him, and i dont give a shit if we go 5-11 forever. just something to amuse me.

Yeah, I think we know for sure that whenever we do draft our next QB, he needs to sit on the bench at least 8 games, but ideally about 2 seasons.

Beyond that, many players taken in early rounds probably can contribute right away - maybe not linemen or MLB, but many other positions could. But we really do need to go ahead and scrap next year if necessary for the sake of player development.

But seriously, we all know that none of it matters if Millen is here, and we all know that Ford's balls are too wrinkled to be useful and Millen won't be canned.

one might argue, too, that it doesnt matter if we fire millen, so long as the guy who hired millen also hires the next guy.

EDIT- http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html


Wow, 3 Wolverines in the top 10? How did we not win the freaking National Title?

See Moodini get pissed off all over again.

BTW, I hate the Brady Quinn pick. I think he's vastly overrated due to Charlie's "chuck it" offense and their super soft schedule. I like "AD" Peterson or Joe Thomas.

Wow, 3 Wolverines in the top 10? How did we not win the freaking National Title?

See Moodini get pissed off all over again.

BTW, I hate the Brady Quinn pick. I think he's vastly overrated due to Charlie's "chuck it" offense and their super soft schedule. I like "AD" Peterson or Joe Thomas.

Fuck yes on that. I could be convinced that Gaines Adams should be the pick, and frankly Calvin Johnson would make sense(though my brain would probably explode over 4 WR's in 5 years).

We need a GM first and foremost.

I think we should go O line with thomas, there really doesnt seem to be a defensive playmaker. As we saw with Pinner and the Vikings, a good O line ( and playing the lions) is all you need to run the football. Give Kitna or whoever the QB is some time (Thomas=Orlando pace?) and watch how good martz offense looks

I dont want to start a new thread over this question, so Ill just hijack this one for (hopefully) a short couple posts. A lot of Cowboy boards are talking about DE Woodley from UM. Quick opinion? A lot of people are also talking about Breaston in the 2nd or 3rd round. To stay on topic, Im backing all posts about Joe Thomas, guy is a beast.

In the NFL Breaston will be Eddie Drummond minus 30 lbs. Would you use a 2nd or 3rd for that? I would hope not, unless the rest of your team is so complete and deep that all you need is field position.

As for Woodley, in spite of all he has won I've still seen a number of mocks that rate him outside the 1st round. Others he has been as high as 12-15. Here's what you want to know. He'll improve every year. He's pretty quick but he won't be a Dwight Freeney. He's going to make some big plays and he'll rarely get burned. He has a motor. If DE is your need and Gaines is gone, he's probably the next best unless you're trying to specialize the guy. At 6'3" you could find someone taller, and you could probably find someone faster, but he's a good all-around DE if you're picking in the 20's and that's your biggest need.

I'm going to say no to Thomas. There's just something about Wisconsin offensive linemen that scares me.

I can't quite put my finger on it....

There was a report on benmaller.com yesterday that claimed that the Lions' scouts have already been in contact with Brady Quinn's high school coach.

i think it would be a huge mistake to draft for next year. we have to face reallity, we have a foundation of shit. we only have a handful of quality nfl players. so even if (huge if) we had a dream offseason, we're not going to go anyplace special next year. and imo, you can ignore the 'system' talk too. martz is gone after this year or next. who knows when marinelli gets axed.

so i disagree with your statement about not drafting peterson due to our offense.

i say, unless injuries are a true concern, take him, and build a team around a star rb. i agree the best thing we could do is draft an 0-lineman, but thats assuming we'd do other things right, too. i dont have that kind of faith. just get me a stud RB, build him a decent line and cast around him, and i dont give a shit if we go 5-11 forever. just something to amuse me.

I don't understand, these seem to contradict each other. If we draft Peterson, wouldn't we be drafting for next year? The only reason to take Peterson is that you are worried KJ won't play next year and you can't wait another year. That, or you feel he is that superior to KJ. But then you risk being able to trade KJ because of injury concerns. Also, it took KJ almost two years to find his grove with being patient for holes, etc.

I think you build your lines and hope KJ comes back. Look at Denver. their system and OL produced those RB's. A good RB behing a crap OL doesn't work.

I'm going to say no to Thomas. There's just something about Wisconsin offensive linemen that scares me.

I can't quite put my finger on it....

http://www.news.wisc.edu/rosebowl/images/gibson.jpg

I don't understand, these seem to contradict each other. If we draft Peterson, wouldn't we be drafting for next year? The only reason to take Peterson is that you are worried KJ won't play next year and you can't wait another year. That, or you feel he is that superior to KJ. But then you risk being able to trade KJ because of injury concerns. Also, it took KJ almost two years to find his grove with being patient for holes, etc.

I think you build your lines and hope KJ comes back. Look at Denver. their system and OL produced those RB's. A good RB behing a crap OL doesn't work.

i agree with everything you said, but your not following me.

1) i dont think the lions will ever figure out how to win.
2) i dont think theyre competent enough to build a great offensive line.
3) i want to have a reason to follow the team again.

if they draft peterson, im confident they can give him a decent supporting cast (line, skill positions) and he could put up really good numbers in detroit.

im not saying its the best way, or even a way, to build a winner. but right now im thinking lions in the 90's would be great.

In the NFL Breaston will be Eddie Drummond minus 30 lbs. Would you use a 2nd or 3rd for that? I would hope not, unless the rest of your team is so complete and deep that all you need is field position.

As for Woodley, in spite of all he has won I've still seen a number of mocks that rate him outside the 1st round. Others he has been as high as 12-15. Here's what you want to know. He'll improve every year. He's pretty quick but he won't be a Dwight Freeney. He's going to make some big plays and he'll rarely get burned. He has a motor. If DE is your need and Gaines is gone, he's probably the next best unless you're trying to specialize the guy. At 6'3" you could find someone taller, and you could probably find someone faster, but he's a good all-around DE if you're picking in the 20's and that's your biggest need.

I think that Woodley will go 10-15 in a situation similar to David Pollack.

I'm going to say no to Thomas. There's just something about Wisconsin offensive linemen that scares me.

I can't quite put my finger on it....

The fact that he has Mandarich numbers?

Sorry, 6'7" 330, and a 4.89 and blocking 3 people at a time vs. Michigan(their one effective run play was the one where he sealed the end, went up to backer, then lead blocked the safety).

Sorry, that kid is SICK, we should take him. Actually we should trade down, and get more 'very good' kids, but if we stay, Joe Thomas should be the guy IMO.

I don't understand, these seem to contradict each other. If we draft Peterson, wouldn't we be drafting for next year? The only reason to take Peterson is that you are worried KJ won't play next year and you can't wait another year. That, or you feel he is that superior to KJ. But then you risk being able to trade KJ because of injury concerns. Also, it took KJ almost two years to find his grove with being patient for holes, etc.

I think you build your lines and hope KJ comes back. Look at Denver. their system and OL produced those RB's. A good RB behing a crap OL doesn't work.

Good post Chris. I agree. I love Peterson and I would love to root for him in the D, but with our line in shambles and already having a serviceable RB in KJ (I think he'll be OK), I guess it doesn't make sense. I'd say trade town a bit, and maybe get Thomas or Alan Branch. If Rogers got healthy, imagine him and Branch plugging holes for the next 5-6 years.

Dream scenario would be if we traded down a few picks and got ourselves another second rounder. We then take one of the top linemen in the draft (say if whoever's at 3 or 4 decides to jump up for Quinn or Johnson and we end up with Thomas) and end up with a good DE and QB-of-the-future in the second round. Maybe Woodley and Troy Smith drop to the second round. If Smith is gone we can pick up Stanton and let him ride the bench for a year or two while he develops. Like I said, dream scenario.

Also, what's going on with Dan-O? Are we going to let him step in at QB to show us if he's got a chance at any point this year? I think it could really affect how we draft. If he shows a great deal of promise to be our future QB then we really don't need to worry about using a 1st-3rd rounder on one. My guess is Marinelli wants to give the kid a series or two each the game but Martz is too stubborn to let it happen.

Also, what's going on with Dan-O? Are we going to let him step in at QB to show us if he's got a chance at any point this year? I think it could really affect how we draft. If he shows a great deal of promise to be our future QB then we really don't need to worry about using a 1st-3rd rounder on one. My guess is Marinelli wants to give the kid a series or two each the game but Martz is too stubborn to let it happen.

Why would the lions want to mess with their chemistry. They're 2-12 and they're rolling. They're coming off a week where they almost kept it close with traditional power green bay at their house. They also a close game with new england earlier in the season. if the lions put in one of the younger quarterbacks, they may lose by even more points. Plus, why would management want to send the message that they have given up on this season already. I think that kitna has earned the right to start the last couple of games based on his strong decision-making skills and clutch play.

Note: preceeding message only informed by record and watching 2 quarters of the lions this season. In those 2 quarters joey "liberace" harrington lit them up.

They already drafted Gary Coleman for linebacker last year, I say this year they go for Webster, and line him up on the other side.

Dream scenario would be if we traded down a few picks and got ourselves another second rounder. We then take one of the top linemen in the draft (say if whoever's at 3 or 4 decides to jump up for Quinn or Johnson and we end up with Thomas) and end up with a good DE and QB-of-the-future in the second round. Maybe Woodley and Troy Smith drop to the second round. If Smith is gone we can pick up Stanton and let him ride the bench for a year or two while he develops. Like I said, dream scenario.

Also, what's going on with Dan-O? Are we going to let him step in at QB to show us if he's got a chance at any point this year? I think it could really affect how we draft. If he shows a great deal of promise to be our future QB then we really don't need to worry about using a 1st-3rd rounder on one. My guess is Marinelli wants to give the kid a series or two each the game but Martz is too stubborn to let it happen.

damn. any sentence that includes "lions" and "dream scenario" automatically equals cornbread. then discussing playing a young qb for the future? you've got it bad.

face it, even if they make the right pick, which they wont, and even if that player develops, which he wont, we arent surrounding him anytalent.

this is like saying, 'if i only buy a few more lottery tickets this week, maybe i'll win 50 dollars'. you need help, man.

damn. any sentence that includes "lions" and "dream scenario" automatically equals cornbread. then discussing playing a young qb for the future? you've got it bad.

face it, even if they make the right pick, which they wont, and even if that player develops, which he wont, we arent surrounding him anytalent.

this is like saying, 'if i only buy a few more lottery tickets this week, maybe i'll win 50 dollars'. you need help, man.


*sigh*





*tear*[smilie=shame.gif]

I know everybody wants to see Orlovsky but maybe he just hasn't shown in practice that he has command of the offense?

Screw Orlovsky, I still want to see McCown.

I'd be happy to see either of them get some time.

Screw Orlovsky, I still want to see McCown.

All you have to do is look for the 4-wide package.

All you have to do is look for the 4-wide package.

hahaha. Comical. The post, and the Lions.

Trying to lose the top pick, and keep Millen.

Fuck the Lions.

Trying to lose the top pick, and keep Millen.

Fuck the Lions.

I predicted this before the game, ask Wizzle. It happens every year.

I shit you not, 20 minutes ago I said to my friend 'right now guys in Detroit are mad, saying that the Lions are fucking themselves'.

With our loss today and a Tampa win we have assured ourself of either the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft. I know that deep down we are all Lions fans still and every single person on this board will be watching the "train wreck" known as the 2007 NFL Draft.

This just means we'll beat the Cowboys next week, while the "12 TD's all season" Raiders will get the job done and fold up just right against the Jets.

Morons.

well, i dont know. i've heard this draft referred to as 'the brady quinn sweepstakes' one too many times to really want that number one pick. (if your brady quinn's dad, do you let your son get drafted by the lions though? completely serious question).

and i'd be happy with peterson or the OT, so the pick doesnt really matter to me.

conversely, i dont think this team is good enough to ruin the season with a win. in years past, we'd fuck this up with a win, but that would come after a season of disapointment. whereas i think this team is about as a legit 2-13 team as they get. our best try wasnt even good enough to beat a 3/4 effort from chicago.

I'd love to see us get the top pick, but only if we're trading it for another top-5 pick and an extra second rounder or maybe for a pair of first rounders. Something like that. If everyone else in the draft loves Brady Quinn so much, someone's got to be willing to give up some good picks to move up and take him.

I agree on Quinn. I don't want him, but if he has a huge combine there will be teams salivating over our pick.

If Joe Thomas is our guy, we'd get him at #2 as well. no way Oakland grabs him after taking Gallery a couple years ago. There are actually a good number of mid-high first round OT's in most mocks right now, so trading down could pay off, especially if the extra pick pays off like Kevin Jones did.

I want a new GM, then trade down, either get Thomas, or move to the lower top ten, get Blaylock or a DE(Moses?) and get collect good players in the 2nd and 3rd round(which are the most valuable picks in cost/effect).

The new GM is the trick. I wouldn't mind trading down multiple times, enough to where we could manage 4 picks in the top 40-50. So many positions that need to be addressed.

Overall, I think the right maneuvering could land us the following (regionally biased) draft:
Justin Blalock
Ryan Harris
Lamarr Woodley
David Harris
Tom Zbikowski
Tyler Palko

Out of that group, I see 3-4 guys that could start next season. In Palko, I see a kid that we could get later in the draft with experience and tools to have some success. Could he develop like a Tom Brady?

I'm not so sure Quinn being the highest rated player is best for us. Who are we going to trade down with?

Teams that need a QB:

Oakland - junk qb's, but will they trade up one spot?
Baltimore - can't trade up that far, and will probably target Smith or another later round QB.

Teams that could need a QB:
Browns - Is Frye the answer there?
Bills - Losman is doing better now though

I'm inclined to think that we'd get more offers for Peterson if he is rated the highest.

the Packers and Browns could use a stud RB.

I think if the Browns are at #3 then we may be able to trade with them.

They would want Quinn IMO, and we could take their #3 overall and get our OL (thomas) and maybe the Browns 2nd rounder too.

I highly doubt the Raiders take Joe Thomas at 2, especially with OL Robert Gallery looking like a bad pick.

I think if the Browns are at #3 then we may be able to trade with them.

They would want Quinn IMO, and we could take their #3 overall and get our OL (thomas) and maybe the Browns 2nd rounder too.

I highly doubt the Raiders take Joe Thomas at 2, especially with OL Robert Gallery looking like a bad pick.

I wonder if the Browns get gun shy on a trade with us after the Winslow/Williams deal though.

trading down to number 3 and picking up the #35 pick would be a no brainer, but would cleveland do that again? i really have no interest in watching millen fuck up the draft with guys i've never heard of, so im opposed to dropping out of the top 3. i'd much rather watch him fuck up with someone i know about, which is why im adament about peterson.

Overall, I think the right maneuvering could land us the following (regionally biased) draft:
Justin Blalock- hell yeah
Ryan Harris- not clicking who he is
Lamarr Woodley- would be great, but I see him ending up in the mid-1st, where we A. won't be, and B. have bigger needs
David Harris - Not a huge fan, depends where he ends up
Tom Zbikowski- for as fast as everyone says he is, he gets burnt real often
Tyler Palko- could sit and take over in a few years, wouldn't be bad

----

A few more names:
Clifton Ryan - 1 of 3 competent people on the D, and due to MSU's crappiness, could be available late. Would be best as a 3-4 guy with his tweener size though. Pass rush DT, or run DE too.
Kerry Reed - Easily MSU's best WR this year, could be available late. Should be able to offer more than McCown at least.
HB Blades - And the other Pitt LB whose name escapes me.

Not sure on the class's of other teams kids.

I can't wait until ESPN and SI put out their draft info and I can get more information on some of these guys.

I dont think any QB will ever develop in Detroit. The pressure is so immense to play right away, and show results right away. Kitna is fine for that, let Martz handpick a QB with a 5th round pick. Anything but defense or O Line with the top 2 pick is a no no. Then again, Millen is picking, and we will spend the next 16 games watching Adrian Peterson get tackled 2 yards behind line of scrimmage.

No QB will ever develop because we never give them any protection. Draft so o-linemen and a developmental QB (unless Orlovsky is still our developmental QB like i hope) and by the time some of the linemen develop into solid starters, or QB will be ready to step in and show what he's worth. Everyone always talks about how it all starts with the lines and ours always suck.

That's because we always grab the other teams' cast off OL members. We got 4 people that nobody wanted (Tucker, Davis, Demulling, Stokes), a guy out of retirement (Verba), and a prowbowler that got fat and lazy (Woody). We need to be drafting 1-2 OL every year, even if they are 2nd or 3rd rounders. Maybe Scott will pay off eventually. At least he wasn't much of a risk that low.

Davis is a young lineman. I guess he was unwanted because he was undrafted, but he was supposed to be someone who could develop a bit. Whatever happened to that USC guard that slipped in the draft. There was talk that he'd be a 2nd or early 3rd round pick, then the Lions picked him up in the 7th and he disappeared, Kind of like how Scott slipped to them when he was being talked about as a potential early round pick. Matua or something like that. He's not even on the practice squad right now.

And what happened to Kelly Butler? I thought he'd have a chance to develop into a serviceable RT or bumped inside to a guard.

And what happened to Kelly Butler? I thought he'd have a chance to develop into a serviceable RT or bumped inside to a guard.

cut

Butler blew his chance. Matua never had a chance because we had too many OL to start the year.

Here's the thing. We'll be bad for quite a while, so why not draft OL in the first 2 rounds the next 2 years and let them come together, THEN put the skill positions behind them.

Here is the plan that I like.........We draft Joe Thomas and move him to LT, we shift Backus down to LG, we move Woody back to his pro-bowl spot at Center. We give Raoila a shot at RG and when he sucks he becomes our backup G/C. We draft a RT in the 2nd or 3rd round (preferrably 3rd......I want a DT in the 2nd) and we plug the RG spot with a free agent or whomever. The key is that we tell Damien Woody that this is HIS offensive line and he is in charge. It all starts with the center and I love Woody when he is in a position that matters. Dominic Raoila is a HUGE pile of crap. He has the shortest arms of any starting lineman in the NFL and he can't run block to save his flipping life. I honestly think that if we get pick #1 and trade down to say 2, 3 or 4 and pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd and we can get two good lineman for this draft (ala J-E-T-S, JETS, JETS, JETS) then I like that.

Filly that makes way too much sense, Woody at center is perfect. Then again, this is the Lions, so your formula will only be seen in Madden 2007.

OH MY FREAKING GOD, THE LIONS ARE THE MOST INEPT IDIOTIC FRANCHISE IN THE HISTORY OF SPORTS!!!!!!!! With nothing to play for, the Lions beat a playoff team on the road and lose the chance at controlling the draft with the #1 overall pick. They could have had teams calling them, offering them sweet trades, giving up the house for #1, but no THEY DO IT TO US AGAIN!!!!!!! [smilie=faeuste_bal: aaaaaaaaaaaah!



This is why I'm not a Lions fan.
[smilie=liones.gif][smilie=rocketlaunc:

its not that big of a deal. the downside of high picks is you have to pay them, so its not like a #1 is a golden ticket or something. imo, this isnt last year where we absolutely fucked ourselves by winning in NO. this is fine. it would have been more fun to be #1, but the outcome doesnt really change too much.

ps: a little trivia, no looking this up. who was the last #1 pick in detroit sports? each of the sports? (i cant think of any non-tigers #1s of the top of my head... strangely alot of tigers thoug).

its not that big of a deal. the downside of high picks is you have to pay them, so its not like a #1 is a golden ticket or something. imo, this isnt last year where we absolutely fucked ourselves by winning in NO. this is fine. it would have been more fun to be #1, but the outcome doesnt really change too much.

ps: a little trivia, no looking this up. who was the last #1 pick in detroit sports? each of the sports? (i cant think of any non-tigers #1s of the top of my head... strangely alot of tigers thoug).


Billy Simms?

You're missing the point. They wouldn't take anyone #1. They would (ok should) trade it. #2 has much less leveraging power.

Yes, yes, you guys have it solved!
"Don't draft high because you will have to pay them!"
THAT is the secret to Lion Football! And you all accuse WCF and Matt Millen of being incompetent, when you THINK JUST LIKE THEY DO!!
It's a vast "Lion Conspiracy"! HMMMMMHHOOOOOHHAAAAAHAAAAA!
"Mr Ford, I have a plan.Today, we're going to win the game!"
"BRILLIANT! You a smart motherfucker, that's right! It's like golf, the last hole is an easy one, so after these saps have octuple bogeyed every hole, they par the 9th, go have 45 beers, and they're right back here next Saturday!"
"Mr Ford, there's one other thing. If we win, we draft in the second position. We can save $76.59 if we do that. If you invest that money in foreign stocks, it could turn into $93.44 by the year 2497!"
"So, Matt, you're saying that we can win, and get the #2 draft pick, AND save money? BRILLIANT!"
"I have a list of possible draft choices here, Mr Ford. You'd better check it out."
"Hmmm...how about this kid, Matt? He's a gamer. He died in 1974, but I think he would fit right in with our plans"
"Mr Ford, I'm ON it. I'll effort that immediately"
Tune in next week when Matt Millen says to WCF:
"Mr Ford, are you SURE that thing is going to fit into my anus?"

Matt Anderson, I think. I can't even remember a Lions or Pisons # 1. For the Red Wings, wasn't the kid we traded for Jimmy Carson a number one? I can't remember his name. Jon Murphy?

Number one picks being traded isn't very common.

It's good to see everyone coming on board with going after O-linemen early... what took so long :^)
I think it's important to take a good look at what other teams needs are first... if O line is not a priority for the first 6 teams... go ahead and work the trade down... I doubt that teams will trade up to grab Thomas... they usually trade up for skilled positions.

FUCK THE LIONS

I'm not really mad at the Lions for winning. A win does a lot for Rod because it helps him sell his style to the team and show what hard work does.

it doesn't actually hurt as much as you would think either. Yes, I would rather have the #1 pick than the #2 pick. However, I doubt the Lions would have traded the #1 pick. If Quinn is the #1 pick, there won't be many teams willing to trade up. Only Oakland needed a QB in the top 10 (Cleveland, maybe), so who was going to trade up with us? We need Joe Thomas, and now we can pick him and not worry about who is the #1 rated player and just draft our need. Plus he'll be cheaper at #2 than #1. We also might have a chance at trading down anyway. Suppose a team really wants Peterson or Calvin Johnson and thinks someone ahead of them will take them.

Maybe Cleveland wants Peterson and thinks we'll take him? Maybe Houston thinks Cleveland will take him and wants to leap frog them? Who knows? I do think more people will trade up for #2 than trade up for #1 (costs them a lot less). If Quinn to Oakland is a no-brainer, it puts us as the #1 team to negotiate with for trades.

the highlite of the rose bowl for me was when they mentioned carroll told mike williams that he was too slow for the nfl BEFORE williams took a year off.

I caught that too. Everyone but Kiper and Millen thought he was slow.

brady quinn looked like someone kicked him in the junk when bradshaw handed him the lion helmet in the pregame show. thats satisfying. should millen/ the fords dcide that another qb is our savior, im 100% certain he'd demand a trade.

not sure, but i really liked jamarcus russell. i have no idea where he's supposed to go, but if we got him some how, and promised not to play him at all his rookie year, i wouldnt be upset.

I like him too, but I think he's an early mid first rounder (ie like Cutler/Lienart were)

I really hope something comes out about him that slips him into the second round. Just one of those stupid NFL things that gets everyone worked up for no reason, like "when he was a kid, he fell off his bicycle and scrapped both his palms on some freshly laid gravel. This may cause issues with his grip on the NFL ball even though he's never shown any signs of it in college." We all know Millen has a thing for drafting injured guys who've slipped like Shaun Rogers, Luke Staley, Artose Pinner, Ernie Sims, etc.

He may go #1 overall. Surely top 10.

Just depends on the combine. If he has a great combine he'll certainly be up there with Quinn.

I'd MUCH rather see us get Russell than Quinn, but I'd still like to see us get some good linemen.

with not that many teams looking for Qb's a guy like Smith could fall a little too. Or if Russel has a big camp a team like Cleveland might trade up with us thinking we'll take him.

You guys wont see russell maybe. at this point i think you guys draft whoever we dont between russell and Peterson. I want Peterson, but i almost cant be mad if we take Russell. Quinn is the same puke garbage us michigan fans have always known about with the most overrated arm strength ever. If the raiders pick him, they'll officially earned the matt millen badge of dishonor.

Millen would immediately earn it back with the next pick. I'm sure of it.

I hate Notre Dame and all but I actually think Quinn will be a pretty good QB in the NFL. He seems to make good reads and be accurate, his only problem is he forces bad throws. He's also durable.

I wonder why so many people think anybody is going to trade up to #1...if they didn't do it last year, no way they do it this year. Unless it's for very little.

Whoever the Lions draft will suck. And forget drafting local...C-Rog burned me out on that one.

I don't mind drafting local in the later rounds. Having a local guy who's on the bubble of making the team will draw a lot of fan interest in the preseason. Drafting local in the early rounds is no good, though, unless the guy is good enough to get drafter that early. Don't reach for a local guy.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but anything other than OT first round and either OG or DE 2nd round is a failure of a draft.

Having a 6'6" 260lb. QB that can throw 80yds flat footed and 50yds from his knees that can take a year or two to just sit and learn the system is just a dream. Dreams are all we have as Lions fans. Tread softly Jethro, for you tread on my dreams.......... :P

Lions arent drafting a qb with no Kevin jones for this year and two starting qb's on the payroll(Josh McCown was a fairly decent starter in Arizona).

lol McCown is not a starter in the NFL and Kitna is nothing but a stopgap. An olineman will not have the impact that a solid QB will have and you can more often develop linemen from later in the draft or guys that have been around the league like San Diego and Chicago have done.

Right now, I disagree on Brady Quinn.
I think he is a horrible intermediate route passer, does not posess any touch on those throws. His long ball is right now an example of having two receivers who are both about 6'5 saving you.
I don't think that it was an accident that ND lost three games to the three best teams they played by a large margin, and that Quinn was largely inneffective in all three. I doubt his arm strangth, and I definitely doubt his ability to "make reads". He was great against the service academies and Purdue, and Samardjia turned a screen pass into a long game winning TD against a six loss UCLA team and all, but Quinn has proven nothing at the college level if you axe me.

I'd like to see Joe Thomas, Stanton and Dave Harris here in the first 3 rounds.

Do they really need another QB besides Kitna, McCown and Orlavsky?

Linemen. Linemen. Linemen.

yes, because they need to sit a QB for a year behind Kitna. Instead they will play Kitna until he retires and then throw McCown in there who hasn't succeeded anywhere. We could wait another year, but I'm not sure there will be as deep a QB crop next year.

I would be happy with Thomas, Blaylock (not sure if he'll be there in the 2nd round), and Harris. Then we'd have RT, LG and MLB wrapped up. I don't think we can draft a DE high because we have too much money in Kalimba and Hall. I wonder where Bazuin will go. He was a monster at CMU, and in every game I watched they double teamed him with a RB almost every play and he still got a couple sacks each time. If we could steal him in the 3rd round or so that would be great.

Unless Russell is still on the board at #2 I don't see us taking a QB. If he's there, you've got to take him though. I'd love to see us grab a guy to develop in the second or third round and trade McCown for a 3-4th round pick, since he's obviously going to get no playing time at QB with us. If we aren't going to play him, trade him to a team that will give him a shot to compete for the starting spot and let Orlovsky be our #2 and whoever we draft be the #3.

Am I imagining things, or did Roy Williams flat out say that he wanted the Lions to take Adrian Peterson during the Pistons game last night? I wasn't really paying attention, but I swear I heard him say that.

I watched the ESPN feed so I don't know.

Am I imagining things, or did Roy Williams flat out say that he wanted the Lions to take Adrian Peterson during the Pistons game last night? I wasn't really paying attention, but I swear I heard him say that.


Yup. Texas rooting for OK? And bly said they have to draft defense.

Dre Bly looks like Lindsey Hunter.

They do need defense, but after OL is shored up. They need a MLB, DE and CB still.

Dre wasn't wrong that they need D, but if they don't draft Thomas at 2, they're crazy -- more so then they already are. That's assuming Russell goes first. If he's available at the second pick, I'd be convinced that Millen is running the draft for the Raiders.

As I've been saying all along, we take either Thomas or Russell, whoever is left on the board. I wouldn't trade it unless it was a damn good deal.

If Russell's on the board, we should get a pretty good offer, no?

Whats the latest on Jones injury?

Whats the latest on Jones injury?

I read today that he's on schedule. They expect him to be ready for training camp in July (though I am sure they will limit him), and ready to start the regular season as well. they'll sign a vet RB just in case, but I doubt they draft one. Hopefully Calhoun is good to go too.

Thanks. I sure hope he is going to come back strong cause obviously we have a shot at a good one.

I don't think there's a RB worth a top 5 pick. I'd say Peterson, but he's got a history of injuries that worry me a bit.

If we aren't getting a franchise quarterback then we need to trade the pick and move down a few spots and get more picks. It's that simple.

If we aren't getting a franchise quarterback then we need to trade the pick and move down a few spots and get more picks. It's that simple.


Not to be a dick, but there is about a 5% chance of either of those things happening, and most analysists are markedly against them.

I'm not offended by that at all. As the record shows:

1) The Lions suck for the most part with really high draft picks (Harrington, Rogers, M. Williams, etc.)

2) The Lions need a real impact player if they draft that high.....not an OL.

3) The Lions seem to do a lot better with mid to late first round picks.

4) The Lions need help almost everywhaere so teh more 1st and 2nd round picks....the better.

That's my opinion and i'm sticking to it!!!

The Lions don't do well with any picks really. What picks have been good? We had one good year with Roy and Kevin. That's it. It's too soon to tell on last year, but look at our picks:

(1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th rounders)
2005:
Mike Williams, Cody, Stanley Wilson, N/A, Dan O

2004:
Roy & Kevin, Lehman, Smith, N/A, Lewis

2003:
Chuck, Boss, Redding, Pinner, Holt & Davis

2002:
Joey, Kalimba, Goodman, Jonathan Taylor, John Owens

2001:
Backus, Riola & Rogers, N/A, N/A, Anderson & McMahon

2000:
Stocker, Barret Green, Droughns, N/A, Todd Franz

So this is what we have from 6 years of drafting extremely high:
A pro bowl WR, a very good RB, a pro bowl caliber DT that is a headache, a decent LT, a decent C, a good DT that may not be back, and a few underperforming bench players.

So we are 6 of 30 on our drafting, 9 of 30 if you count the few bench players that are OK. That's with an average draft position of 10, which is probably the best in the NFL over that period.

My dream draft right now would be:

Joe Thomas, Patrick Willis (may have to move up a few spots from #34), and Lamarr Woodley.

I wonder if the Jets would work a deal with us: #25 and #59 for #34, #66 and Bly. The Jets need a CB bad. We'd have to play some young guys at CB, but we'd have a pass rush, a true MLB, and solid OT's.

The Lions don't do well with any picks really. What picks have been good? We had one good year with Roy and Kevin. That's it. It's too soon to tell on last year, but look at our picks:

(1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th rounders)
2005:
Mike Williams, Cody, Stanley Wilson, N/A, Dan O

2004:
Roy & Kevin, Lehman, Smith, N/A, Lewis

2003:
Chuck, Boss, Redding, Pinner, Holt & Davis

2002:
Joey, Kalimba, Goodman, Jonathan Taylor, John Owens

2001:
Backus, Riola & Rogers, N/A, N/A, Anderson & McMahon

2000:
Stocker, Barret Green, Droughns, N/A, Todd Franz

So this is what we have from 6 years of drafting extremely high:
A pro bowl WR, a very good RB, a pro bowl caliber DT that is a headache, a decent LT, a decent C, a good DT that may not be back, and a few underperforming bench players.

So we are 6 of 30 on our drafting, 9 of 30 if you count the few bench players that are OK. That's with an average draft position of 10, which is probably the best in the NFL over that period.
Barret Green was a good choice. He was a solid starter for us before he left for a big free agent contract with the Giants.

My dream draft right now would be:

Joe Thomas, Patrick Willis (may have to move up a few spots from #34), and Lamarr Woodley.

I wonder if the Jets would work a deal with us: #25 and #59 for #34, #66 and Bly. The Jets need a CB bad. We'd have to play some young guys at CB, but we'd have a pass rush, a true MLB, and solid OT's.
If we could pull off that trade I'm all for it, but NFLDraftCountdown has Willis going first round and Woodley going second round.

I was going to say we should grab another O-Lineman in the second round and Michigan ILB David Harris in the third, but I just realized he's listed to go late second too. If we can't make a trade, I'd have to say we go Joe Thomas in the first, best OL on the board (Grubbs if he slips, Staley, Blalock), and the best DE or ILB in the third (hopefully Harris or Woodley slip to us)

If we could pull off that trade I'm all for it, but NFLDraftCountdown has Willis going first round and Woodley going second round.

I was going to say we should grab another O-Lineman in the second round and Michigan ILB David Harris in the third, but I just realized he's listed to go late second too. If we can't make a trade, I'd have to say we go Joe Thomas in the first, best OL on the board (Grubbs if he slips, Staley, Blalock), and the best DE or ILB in the third (hopefully Harris or Woodley slip to us)
They have Willis at #28 or something like that, and Woodley as the last pick or so in the 2nd. That's why I'd feel more comfortable doing the deal I mentioned because they both might be there. If no deal, Willis will not be there. Then we could go OG in the second and Harris in the third. I really like Staley in the 2nd round, but only if we didn't get Thomas for some reason (ie we trade down). I wonder where Bazuin from CMU will go. I haven't seen him projected in the first 3 rounds anywhere. He'd be a steal later on. He has a great motor, plays the run and pass and has a lot of heart. If we ended up with Thomas, OG, Harris or MLB...I wouldn't mind grabbing him in the 4th/5th round.

I'm all for taking linemen (offensive and defensive) late in the draft. Linemen and recievers that go late always seem to have a better shot of developing into something worthwhile than a lot of other positions. ESPN has Bazuin rated a 75, which is SUPPOSED to mean that he's got 3rd round talent. Of course, they rank a ton of guys in the 90's and 80's so a lot of guys rated in teh 70's will be 4-6th round picks. I'd love to see us pick him up with a late draft pick. He's the #13 DE on ESPN's board and wrote that he projects as a late first-day pick. He sounds like someone that would be used as a solid pass-rushing backup for his first few years until he develops into a better defender against the run. Of course, all of this stuff will change as soon as we get into the combine.

I saw 3 CMU games this year, and when I went to the Motor City Bowl I made a point to watch him and Staley whenever they were on the field to see what I thought of their potential. He never gave up on a play. He was doubled the entire game and usually the OT took him high and the OG cut blocked him low. One play the OT hit him straight on the knee. He came out a play or 2 and returned hobbling and he still got free and pressured the QB a half dozen times and got a couple sacks too. He was simply too quick and agile for the OT's. Granted, they were playing Middle Tenn State, but he's had good numbers in his career. The question would be simply if he can use leverage to beat OT's in the NFL. He definately has the speed and agility to get by them. At worst he would maybe show Edwards what it's like to actually make moves and hustle.

I'm starting to think Staley won't be there for us in the second round (if we didn't draft Thomas first). Good combine's can really jump you up the board:


Entering Central in 2003, Staley had a bright future -- as a 225-pound tight end. He had been an all-state sprinter at Rockford (Mich.) High, with recorded times of 21.9 seconds for 200 meters and 10.8 for 100 meters.But when he returned to Central for his sophomore season, Staley had gained 40 pounds. He was moved to offensive right tackle and started all 11 games there in 2004.
Staley had another position switch in 2005 -- to left tackle, where he played the past two seasons. And he kept growing, up to 300 pounds.
But what hasn't changed is Staley's ability to run. For a man his size -- 6-foot-5, with room to gain more weight -- Staley might be the fastest offensive tackle in the draft. His goal is to run the 40-yard dash in 4.7 seconds or faster.
"I've always been fast," Staley said in a recent telephone interview. "I know the proper technique on running."
According to Staley's bio in Central's media guide in 2006, he was timed in 4.7 seconds by NFL scouts in a "pro day" workout as a junior. Staley says he ran a shade faster.
"The scout came in and he had me at 4.7 flat," said Staley, who played in the Senior Bowl last month in Mobile, Ala. "Actually, the rumor was, he timed me at 4.68. He said he wasn't going to be able to write that down. Nobody would believe him."
Only two of the 22 offensive tackles who ran the 40 at last year's combine were timed in less than five seconds -- Miami's Eric Winston was the fastest at 4.94 seconds.

I've been getting that same feeling. I keep seeing articles about him all over the place.

Quotes from Joe Thomas:


INDIANAPOLIS - Detroit Lions head coach Rod Marinelli really wants to use his second overall draft pick on a defensive player, but he's going to have a very difficult time passing up Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas.
Yes, the Lions need a lot of help on the defensive side of the ball, but they also need players who embody all the things Marinelli is looking for in a young prospect. Marinelli wants to build his team with talented, passionate, intelligent and team-oriented people who have the dedication, not just to win, but to do the hard work necessary to win.
Say hello to Joe Thomas.
Here are some of the many reasons Marinelli will have to hesitate before deciding not to pick Thomas, the top-rated offensive lineman in the draft.

He's a team-first guy. Thomas was one of the best tackles in college last season and he was considering coming out as a junior, but he tore the ACL in his right knee while playing defensive end in Wisconsin's Capital One bowl game.
Playing defensive end?
"We had a couple of injuries during the year and I had started at defensive end as a true freshman for one game so I just raised my hand and said I'd like to step in and help the team win," Thomas said. "And we won, so who cares about the injury?"

He's a dedicated worker and perfectionist. Thomas had knee surgery on Jan. 19 last year and worked so hard on his recovery that he was ready for Wisconsin's season opener. Even as he went through rehab, Thomas made sure he was working on improving his skills.
"I think I'm a technician, I don't think I'm a guy who settles for anything less than perfection when it comes to all aspects of my game," he said. "I think I'm a good leader on the field and off the field. I think I'm a guy who has a great work ethic, who will show the other guys on the team the right way to work and the right way to win."

He has the required mean streak. "I think it's where it needs to be. I'm not afraid to turn that switch on when I get on that field and if somebody deserves it, they're going to get it."

He believes the games are more important than the draft. While many players are spending their off-season by training for the combine drills so they can improve their results and get drafted higher, Thomas is working on getting better as a tackle.
"A lot of my off-season training is focusing on getting myself ready for the NFL season," he said. "I'm not as worried about getting a tenth (of a second) better in this drill or that drill because that's not going to help me next season.
"One of the things I've noticed about the guys who played at Wisconsin and played at other schools is, as they trained in the off-season, they'd go down to Houston or Phoenix to train and they lose focus about what they're really doing in the off-season.
"I think when you do combine training, you're training to improve your speed in the 40 or trying to improve your bench (press) reps, you're trying to do all the specific drills that you have to do (at the combine). For an offensive lineman, a lot of those drills aren't very applicable; it doesn't matter whether an offensive lineman can run the 40 fast - as long as he's quick - because you're never going to see him run 30 or 40 yards ... unless he's running down (an interception) going the other way."

He'll like playing for the Lions. "I'd love to play for Detroit. I grew up in Wisconsin and (the University of) Michigan is close by and it'd be a great opportunity to play in front of my friends and family a lot," Thomas said. "And I think they're an organization that just needs a couple of pieces and they're going to take off and have a great season."



INDIANAPOLIS -- Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas weighed in at 311 pounds and was measured at 6-6 1/2 at the combine. Here are some of the comments he made to the media during his lengthy interview:

On why he doesn’t believe he’ll struggle like former Iowa tackle Robert Gallery, who was the second overall pick a couple of years ago:

“I think we’re different players, first of all. But I also think Robert’s been in a tough situation with three different offensive line coaches in his first three years. That’s really a hard situation for anybody, especially coming into the NFL because everybody’s going to want you to do things a different way. That’s part of the reason he’s struggled so far.’’

On why it’s not unfair to expect highly drafted offensive linemen to be more productive than players at other positions (please note the veiled shot, I think, at Charles Rogers):

“I don’t think so because it’s been pretty true. Just about every offensive lineman who’s been picked in the top five or top 10 in the last few years has gone on to start and to start for a long career. You can’t say that about quarterbacks or running backs or receivers. They talk about a guy who is a bust in the top five as an offensive lineman but he might be a five- or six-year starter but he didn’t make the Pro Bowl so they call that a bust. Whereas, you’re a bust as a receiver only if you get cut after three years.’’

On why Thomas believes he’ll be much better as an NFL rookie than he was last year (his first season after the knee surgery):

“I think I’ll be a better player in year two, definitely. I really started feeling like my old self when we played Michigan as our first game in the Big Ten season.’’

About Bob Palcic, his offensive line coach at Wisconsin (who also coached the Lions’ line from 1994 through ’96):

“Bob Palcic is an outstanding coach and bringing his 12 years of background into the NFL really helped, teaching me the game in my final year. He really focused a lot on blitzes and every week we’d draw up just about every blitz you could ever imagine against all of our plays, like how’d you prepare for an NFL game.

“He coached (Tony) Boselli and (Jonathan) Ogden, he’s coached a lot of great players.’’

On why he didn’t play in the Senior Bowl:

“I spent three or four days right after the (Wisconsin) bowl game looking for an agent and I was in Phoenix for the BCS game and then I flew to Omaha to accept the Outland Trophy (for the nation’s best lineman). I flew from there to the Walter Camp award that weekend in Connecticut so I came home with 10 days without training one time and I just didn’t feel that I was going to be able to get ready for the Senior Bowl in five days.’’

--- As we close for the day, a couple of fun things ... I received this e-mail from Nick Cotsonika of the Free Press concerning my earlier conversation with an MLive fan: "In Dallas, you're mistaken for Matt Millen. In Indy, you're mistaken for Nick Lachey. Hilarious."

And, just to add to the misery, I was informed that when I was talking to Mike Martz in the hallway this morning, one reporter almost approached us, thinking it was Millen talking to Martz.

Sounds like a winner.

Which means we draft Gaines Adams.

Which means we draft Gaines Adams.


Or Grizzlie Adams or maybe even Reece Gaines?

Grizzly Adams was a very solid pick for us at #2. I can't believe he was still on the board. He's developed into a very elusive guy after all that time hiding out in the mountains and I think he can really help our team out as soon as we figure out where to play him. I mean, what's not to like?! He's gritty. He's got a beard. He's friends with a fucking bear, for Christ's sake!

I know you guys are thinking about a trade with Arizona, and I know Im homering here, but really Thomas is the best OLine player Ive ever kept an eye on. He pancakes one guy, moves to the next level and pancakes a LB, then moves to pancake a secondary player. I think what impressed me for the last few seasons, is the guy is huge but is not at all fat and has feet. His feet can move. Im by no means a Lions fan, but I think they would be dumb not to take him. The Gallery comparison isnt fair, he had comparitively stationary feet. Joe would block, and move, and block some more. UW has a history of great college OLine players and Ive never seen a player like him. There is a reason he is projected at #2 and only behind a QB.

I want a solid offensive line. Until we get one, we'll have no idea what our young offensive guys are truly capable of. Fuck Millen if he fucks up this draft.

Thomas ran a sub-5.0 40 today at the combine.

He's pretty much earmarked at #2 in most mocks now.

I wonder why Staley didn't run. He said he could run a 4.7 in the 40.

Staley suffered a hammy injury, but reportedly will run at the CMU pro-day. Sounds like he may be there in the 2nd round for us.........could get interesting.

Side-note -- I heard that Josh Brehm from Alma College (Ithaca High School) will be participating at Michigan's Pro Day in hopes of catching on with some team as a free agent or a possible 7th round pick.

one guys performance is eye popping, one guys is disapointing.

trade down to the disapointment. its what we as lions fans are accustomed to anyway.

Millen praised Foster's size, athleticism and versatility. Foster can play both guard and both tackle positions.
Maybe we move him into a guard spot and still end up taking Thomas.

Maybe we move him into a guard spot and still end up taking Thomas.


Thats what Millen is hoping others think he is stupid enough to think.

Are you implying Millen isn't stupid enough to actually think that?

Millen thinks he is crafty, and if he did believe it, wouldn't tell the media.

SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=min)Brady Quinn (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=150329) finally gave NFL scouts, coaches, general managers and owners an up-close look at what he can do on the field...

(http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=min)
...Minnesota Vikings (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=min) coach Brad Childress and Cleveland Browns (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=cle) coach Romeo Crennel were both impressed by Quinn's performance.
"Really, he made more throws here than you'd think about making at the combine," Childress said. "I think he threw about 60 balls here today and it takes a little bit of endurance to be able to do that and he did it pretty rapid-fire succession."
Crennel said Quinn clearly had zip on his passes.
"The fact he could make all his throws, both right and left, he's a polished quarterback," Crennel said. "He's smart. When you watch him on tape you can see he knows where to go with the ball. He will, at times, throw it away when he has to, so we think he's a good, young prospect."


With Cleveland impressed with Quinn, I wonder if any other teams needing a QB will want our pick. I'm not sure if Minny or Houston has the ammo or not.

I wonder if Johnson is back on our radar. Apparently the Lions are done with Curtis. He is playing bidding games with NY and Philly in the mix (and also said he wants to play on the west coast too). The Lions are not that interested anymore.

Also, I watched sportscenter this morning and Todd McShay said Russel's workout was the best he's ever seen...ever.

I have no idea who we'll take, but with Russell, Johnson, Quinn, Thomas and Peterson all impressing I hope we get a great trade offer.

I figured that they had given up on Curtis when they signed Shaun McDonald.

I wonder if the Rams would be willing to become the Lions?

Detroit Rams

St. Louis Lions

Not bad...

So the best pro day ever, and I can't find everywhere where the best GM ever showed up. What the hell did he have to do yesterday that was so important he couldnt take a plane to watch Russell and Dwayne Bowe?

I don't think it matters since Russell will go #1 to the Raiders anyway. But yes, he should have been there for sure.

So the best pro day ever, and I can't find everywhere where the best GM ever showed up. What the hell did he have to do yesterday that was so important he couldnt take a plane to watch Russell and Dwayne Bowe?

It was pedicure day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It appears we had people at CJ's workout day at least:


ATLANTA -- He still isn't likely to be the first player selected overall, but Georgia Tech wide receiver Calvin Johnson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2007&id=11326) did nothing here Thursday during his "pro day" workout to dispel the notion that he is the premier prospect in this year's NFL draft class.





Auditioning in front of about 75 league scouts and coaches assembled on the Georgia Tech campus, a group that included head coaches Lane Kiffin of the Oakland Raiders (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=oak) and the Washington Redskins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was)' Joe Gibbs, Johnson dazzled the crowd with a rare combination of raw athleticism and polished receiving skills.
"Whatever they wanted to see," said Johnson, "I think I showed them."
And then some.
As expected, Johnson caught the ball well, making effortless grabs on passes thrown by former Yellow Jackets quarterback Damarius Bilbo and prospect Drew McKay of Liberty University.
Several receptions, during a session mostly directed by Detroit Lions (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=det) scouts and coaches, came on balls that were thrown well outside of Johnson's body frame and for which he had to stretch out.
The 6-foot-5, 239-pound Johnson on Thursday eschewed the 40-yard dash, in which he was clocked at between 4.35-4.39 seconds at the combine workouts in Indianapolis last month. But he turned in sterling efforts of 42½ inches in the vertical jump and 11 feet, 7 inches in the long jump. He had not performed in those events at the combine.
Putting those numbers in some perspective: The best vertical jump by any of the participants at the combine was 41½ inches. And no one at the combine posted a long jump of better than 11 feet.
Said one regional scout from an AFC franchise: "For a guy that size to do the things that he does, and to make it all look so easy ... is amazing."
Johnson, who opted to bypass his final season of eligibility to enter the draft, is projected by most observers to be a top four choice on April 27. In 29 games for the Yellow Jackets, he had 127 receptions for 2,151 yards and 20 touchdowns.


I'm glad we passed on Curtis because I think this guy is the pick for us now. He would be amazing opposite Roy, with Furrey in the slot. No more late game stalling out.

Kowalski's latest blog entry, for what it is worth:

Lions are looking to trade right now -- and then again later
The Lions are being flooded with trade offers and there's been some speculation out there that president Matt Millen is going to be patient because the price can only go up. But that's not true. According to my sources, the Lions already know what they want out of that No. 2 pick and, if a team steps up to the plate right now, the Lions will pull the trigger.

What's interesting is that there are believed to be several different targets for that No. 2 pick, from Calvin Johnson to JaMarcus Russell to Adrian Peterson to Joe Thomas. The Lions don't have a pressing need for any of those positions so they're willing to drop down. And here's the kicker: the Lions, depending on how far they fall, will be willing to trade down again.

The Lions would like to land Clemson DE Gaines Adams but if they can continue to stockpile picks, they'd be just as happy to fall a little lower and fill some desperate needs like middle linebacker and the secondary.

The point is this: Millen plans on wheeling and dealing for the next six weeks and the ultimate goal is to fill as many needs with as many "Marinelli types'' as possible. A few weeks ago, I said the Lions roster could see a 40 percent turnover going into next season. I now believe -- especially if Millen pulls the trigger on a trade or two -- that that number could exceed 50 percent.

Yes, that's the thing to do: get "Marinelli types", so they can all stand around playing with their dicks when he gets fired somewhere around week 8 when the Lions have failed to win even one game.

Zip, after the past years of shitty uninspired play, I'm at least willing to give Marinelli a chance with a largely modified roster. Things can't really get too much worse. Right?


Right?

No they can't. Actually I'm probably being a bit harsh. The Lions were at least competitive in alot of games.
But then again, when they say you are "competitive" it's usually because you are losing most of the time.

Think of it this way. They were competitive with a bunch of non-Marinelli guys and a horrid lockerroom atmosphere. Maybe that can actually turn into some wins with a better lockerroom and some hard workers. At the very least we can change the attitude of the team.

i dont care about wins anymore. get me a franchise player out of this draft. someone that will be here after we get rid of millen and marinelli. that meens russell, thomas, peterson. hell, even calvin johnson.

50% roster overhaul? guess what you goddman asshole (millen) all these are your guys. and these guys have all replaced your guys. we've overhauled, and overhauled, and overhauled. WHAT THE FUCK IS ANOTHER OVERHAUL GOING TO DO? god is it frustrating.

Here's why I'm ok with an overhaul this time.
Last time it was to bring in primadonna's that couldn't accomplish anything.
This time it's to bring in work ethic guys. If this team loses a dozen games again next year but play their butts off and improve, especially with a number of young players, I won't mind as much. There will at least be some hope for the future.
The current team has offered little of that.

I'm thinking that Mike Valenti knows more about sports than I do, and he now swears by Russell or Johnson.
I think if you can get one guy to build around, and he is THAT good, you take him with this pick.
They're gonna suck again next year, so you get another franchise player next year, or you think about trading it next year.

Anybody but Brady Quinn.

That might be enough for me to finally disassociate myself from this franchise for good.

Which means, of course, that that is exactly who the Lions will draft.

Which means, of course, that that is exactly who the Lions will draft.

Right. And Glenn will keep watching.

I do so love a train wreck.

the fact that he would be even more mad then me might make it worth while. plus watching him do his best joey harrington career impression might be fun too. theres no way millen could fuck up that big though, right?

the fact that he would be even more mad then me might make it worth while. plus watching him do his best joey harrington career impression might be fun too. theres no way millen could fuck up that big though, right?
.....................

Funny, I always think about Joey when I think of Brady.

What makes anyone think that he'll be any better?

No pretty boy QBs in Detroit please, thanks in advance.

I do so love a train wreck.



Aww Thanks, I do so love a Glenn : )

Well you guys missed all the possible already existing QBs except for Carr. So there are a couple scenarios. You take Quinn and have a prettyboy again. You finagle Carr without fucking up the 2nd pick and take Thomas. You finagle Carr without fucking up the 2nd pick and take Johnson. I suppose Miami might be willing to part with Culpepper, but who knows if you want him. As a Cowboys fan... that mid-90's run of three SBs was because of the O-line, so either take Thomas or trade just low enough to pick up a couple good O-line players that are still top tier. Sorry but it's gonna take you guys a couple years. At least the Bears have fucked their offseason.

Is Kitna great? No, but he's serviceable (horrid thing to say about yur quarterback, it means he sucks, but not quite bad enough). We need to develop a young guy of our own, not just try retreads from other teams. Maybe get a developmental guy that actaully fits our offense. Joey was NOT that guy, and now he's probably fucked up beyond repair. Get a tough gritty guy with a Detroit attitude who can thrive in our system and give him a year or two to ust sit back and develop. Then, like UxKa said, we have to finally develop a fucking offensive line. Our ragtag group of guys is pathetic. Really pathetic.

I'm still debating whether I want Johnson or them to trade down (with the assumption that it's a good trade down). I really think Tampa and Atlanta are considering moving up for Johnson.

It would cost Tampa their 4th, 36th and 68th picks to move up to #2.

It would cost Atlanta their #8, #40 and #42 to get #2.

I think I really like the Atlanta deal. We could draft jammal anderson in the first. Then we've got 3 picks in the top 10 of the second to get a MLB (Harris), RT (Staley) and maybe a S (Merriweather) or OG (Blaylock).

Anderson, Harris, Staley and Blaylock would fill out both the defensive and offensive fronts very nicely.

Then you still have your 4th and three 5th rounders to get depth. or you have the 5th rounders to move up if one of those guys might be taken.

I bet the Lions take Quinn.

I like Chris's idea but the chances of that actually happening for the lions is slim-none.

And slim just left town.

Here's why I like the trading-down idea. Millen is capable of screwing up 5-6 picks per draft. So what's the logical solution? Give him 8-9 picks. He MUST get 3 right that way. You can miss on 1 guy per round in the first and second. But given 4 chances, the numbers suggest you'll find a guy that will help anchor his side of the ball for a decade.

Yes, that's the thing to do: get "Marinelli types", so they can all stand around playing with their dicks when he gets fired somewhere around week 8 when the Lions have failed to win even one game.

I know this is way premature, but this may very well be the post of the thread.

I can't stop laughing.



My personal opinion: draft Joe Thomas, see if you can completely rebuild your O-line, and maybe pick up a secondary player along the way.

Mike Williams and Josh McCown weren't at the mini-camp today. I say give the Raiders those two, plus our 2nd and 3rd for their 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. It moves us up one spot in the 2nd and 3rd rounds while increasing the chances of us picking the entire 5th round.

It would have to be more like:
We give those two and our second
They give us the second, third, and fifth

I wouldn't want to give up those two just to move up a spot in the second and third round and pick up some scrub in the 5th. We can get better.

I'd give them both players and a couple 5ths for their 3rd and 4th rounders.

Zekyl, keep in mind that Mike Williams is cut if not traded. A 7th round pick is better than what we would otherwise get for him. As for McCown, has he proved to be better than Joey? ALL we got for Joey was a 5th, that could have been a 6th. There is no way we get a 3rd for either of them or both. The value of moving up one pick in the 2nd is essentially like moving into the 1st round. Moving up in the 3rd shouldn't be underestimated too much either. The 5th round pick is the one that dictates the real value.

My real goal here is for the Lions to gain more value all around. If we do it right, we can deal picks and dirsgrunteld players enough to end up with 5 solid players the first day and a collection of training camp competitors the second day.

I would take any picks for them. You can always take a flyer on some player and hope you get a Brady or Colston out of the late picks. If not, oh well. They aren't part of our plans here anyway.

You have a good point Jethro. You're probably right but I still think we could do a BIT better though. Maybe we give them those two guys and our 2nd and 4th or 5th for their 2nd and 3rd, or we give them the players, 2nd and 3rd and they give us a 2,3,4 instead of 2,3,5. I'm always looking for the best possible deal though, so I'm probably over-valuing what we have.

Commander come QUICK!
What, what is it, Lieutenant Nynbrdkmz?
Well, Commander Qrwsdfxcz, we've descended into the atmosphere of a little blue planet, and we're picking up a communique between some of the inhabitants
Lieutenant Nynbrdkmz, put that up on the speaker!
OK, sir
"So, if they trade a 3rd for a late 4th and give up the 2nd spot in the 6th, we may get a 2nd, and a 4th, plus an extra 5th before they go first!
Holy Great Yrwdpcvgfr of Gymtghrwqszfrwt! These inhabitants are discussing draft picks in the NFL!
Sir, shal we do what we did to that planetoid in the Foytreed Galactic Interspheroid Zone?
No. These people won't pose any threat to anyone but themselves. They're harmless. Just make sure their cable TV never goes on the fritz.
Roger that, Sir!
Leutenant Nynbrdkmz, take us out of here, warp factor 6. I hear James T Kirk is partying out in the Gegfregian Loop near the Dog Star Sirius! AND, the place is LOADED with green chicks!
Wwwweeeebbbbbbooooooooo......

I saw Kiper project us picking the no name DE from Clemson with the #2 pick. I took the remote and jabbed it in my nuts repeatedly, puked on the floor from the pain, and then used my finger to draw the Lions logo in the puke pile.

I saw Kiper project us picking the no name DE from Clemson with the #2 pick. I took the remote and jabbed it in my nuts repeatedly, puked on the floor from the pain, and then used my finger to draw the Lions logo in the puke pile.

Post of the Year.

First of all, Gaines Adams is not a no name DE. He's likely the #1 guy on the Lions list right now. (slight lead over Joe Thomas) However, he's the target based on the certainty that the Lions trade down. If they pick him with the #2 it's a huge mistake, because they can get him in the 6-8 range and add at least a high 2nd to it. He's got #2 ability, but not this year and not when we could add another solid player behind him for the pick value.

I think the Lions are scared by all the people lumping Thomas in with Robert Gallery.

Value wise, the Lions could trade with Tampa Bay for the #4, their 2nd, and their 3rd. (not sure if they still have them)

First of all, Gaines Adams is not a no name DE. He's likely the #1 guy on the Lions list right now. (slight lead over Joe Thomas) However, he's the target based on the certainty that the Lions trade down. If they pick him with the #2 it's a huge mistake, because they can get him in the 6-8 range and add at least a high 2nd to it. He's got #2 ability, but not this year and not when we could add another solid player behind him for the pick value.

I think the Lions are scared by all the people lumping Thomas in with Robert Gallery.


I like to believe I'm pretty knowledgeable about the talent in college football because I follow it extremely closely. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. But, I haven't heard about this guy until his workout. I do not like picking guys because of a workout. I would hate this pick.

Take a quarterback, take your OL, take AD, hell take another WR. Just don't take this DE.

I do not like picking guys because of a workout.

Darko.

Darko.

EXACTLY. I'm really starting to like E-Ray. You know...Jethro's logic on this pick is making sense to me because for years he defended the Darko pic while I called for Melo, Bosh, etc. This is making sense. haha

I'm not sure you can really compare NFL and NBA workouts. In the NFL they are obsessed with the combine and workouts. Guys can jump entire rounds in the NFL draft based on a fast time. In the NBA 'experts' focus more on the player's body of work I think. You don't see players jumping rounds just because they had a good workout. There are certainly busts, but those are more based on people who are knucklheads and won't listen to their coach or can't adapt their game to the NBA.

My dream senario:

Lions trade #2 and #130 to Atlanta for #8, #39, #44 and #74 (they can have McCown if they want to replace Schaub too). Atlanta can take Calvin.

Lions trade #8 and #74 to Washington for #6 (Skins want a DE too, but they may deal this pick for Briggs anyway and could use the extra 3rd rounder).

The Picks:

#6 Gaines Adams - pass rush is huge need
#34 Staley (Blaylock if he is gone) - OL help badly needed
#39 Michael Griffen or Aaron Ross - need some help in the secondary
#44 Dave Harris - we have no MLB and he'd fit great
#66 Drew Stanton - QB of the future, sits behind Kitna for a year

2nd day - more CB's, a WR, best available.

ATL won't have need of McCown with Joey on the team. Calvin Johnson would be an amazing fit there in several ways. Athletic enough to make Vick look better, and the hometown pick would make his jersey sales go through the roof. It might be an ego challenge for Vick though. Not that CJ will have an attitude, but he could replace Vick as the hometown fan favorite. Vick seems like he could be shook by that, even though CJ would help his career.

I like to believe I'm pretty knowledgeable about the talent in college football because I follow it extremely closely. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. But, I haven't heard about this guy until his workout. I do not like picking guys because of a workout. I would hate this pick.

Take a quarterback, take your OL, take AD, hell take another WR. Just don't take this DE.

Ok, well I'll just question your knowledge level when a guy has 9.5 sacks in 2005 and reutrns as a preseason All-American in most books, on the watch list for pretty much every defensive award a DE can win, and then goes on the have another 12.5 sacks, for a career total of 28. He was a candidate to enter the draft last year and considerred it heavily.

The thing not to like about Adams is that he doesn't have another 15 pounds of muscle. If he did, he would truly be a bigger, faster Lamarr Woodley. He has an advatage over Woodley in height and reach, plus a better speed burst, he just isn't quite as strong.

My biggest fear with Adams is that he would be another Kalimba Edwards. I think he's genuinely better though. Edwards is a good example of what you're talking about. He had a great workout and was picked as a one-dimensional guy with potential, but he had never really produced like people thought he could. Adams has all that plus the production.

However, I'm not so sold on Adams that I would be opposed to trading down further and grabbing Jamaal Anderson to fill that other DE spot. Think about this guy. 13.5 sacks while playing an SEC schedule AND USC and Wisconsin. From what I've read this guy fits Marinelli's profile to the tee. He put up those numbers in spite of limited starting experience and some technique issues. That's teachable. The part that Marinelli would love is that the kid is always going. He doesn't take plays off. That's what got him his production. He just kept going and going and when he wore the other guy out he took advantage. He's been compared to Mario Williams who, while not necessarily the better idea for the #1 pick, was picked that high for a reason.

From what I've seen we can drop down to 10-12 range and still get Anderson. If they can manage an additional 1st round pick out of the deal and grab Patrick Willis, I'll be thrilled with the defense.

All that being said, I've been drinking Calvin Johnson Kool-Aid.

And all the while still ignoring the glaring need to build that offensive line.

An update for those who thought we could get more for McCown than a 5th and moving up one spot in the 2nd and 3rd - according to Yahoo sports the team is expecting a 5th round pick ONLY for McCown. So, as it turns out, I was over valuing the situation. I still say we could throw BMW in and hopefully move at least one of those picks up.

Another note, if we did send McCown to Oakland for (among other things or only) a 5th rounder, it would give us the 1st, 2nd, 8th, 17th and 21st pick in the 5th round. I say any other trade we make to move down in the 1st round, we require the other team to give us their 5th round pick as part of the deal. Can you imagine moving down with trades from Cleveland, Tampa Bay and Arizona? The first 5 picks in the 5th plus 3 others?

Yes, it's still the 5th round, but it would enable us to take the best remaining player available at 8 positions. So you take a QB, a WR, a TE, an OL, a S, a CB, a LB, and a DE. With that depth in camp, players are sure to be motivated and competitive for positions. Surely we find a diamond in the rough at that point. Either that or take 8 OL and have the mother of all position battles.

I saw Kiper project us picking the no name DE from Clemson with the #2 pick. I took the remote and jabbed it in my nuts repeatedly, puked on the floor from the pain, and then used my finger to draw the Lions logo in the puke pile.

Epic. And I couldn't agree more. College football is basically my life. I follow the recruiting, watch every second of College GameDay every week, watch it religiously, and play about 4 full seasons each year on the video game, and I've never heard of this cat either. The Lions are tools for winning that stupid game at Dallas at the end of the year. If they lost that game, we'd be at #1 and would be looking at JaMarcus.

[smilie=puke.gif][smilie=liones.gif]

moodini

maybe it was meant to be?

I'm not sure I want to trade McCown to Oakland, then watch them draft Johnson #1. We have no trade partners, Millen won't take Russel, and we end up reaching for Adams and Russel becomes a pro bowler some day. Mean while Adams has a great career but we are forced to cut Shaun Rogers because Redding has a huge contract, Adams gets #2 pick money, and we just signed that other DE from Tampa.

We need to trade down so our DL doesn't take up half our cap. If we take Thomas, then Backus will end up being cut because we can't afford that. At #2 we can really only afford Russel or Johnson. You can't pay anyone else that money and not cut somebody else very soon.

Scott Wright, the brains behind one of the top draft sites NFLDraftCountdown.com, is our second interview in our NFL Draft expert audio series. He tells Bob Gaunt that he believes the Lions will take Gaines Adams with the No. 2 overall pick if they don't move down, which would be the first option.
"Matt Millen and the Lions are praying for JaMarcus Russell to go No. 1 overall. That means Calvin Johnson is still there available at No. 2, and there's a market for that pick." If Johnson is there at No. 2, the door swings open for a trade because many teams want Johnson.
Wright also believes Hampton inside linebacker Justin Durant is a perfect fit for the Tampa-2, and could be the Lions' target in the second round. Why him over some of the other players available at that position?
"I just think that Justin Durant is the perfect guy in the Cover-2 defense. Obviously they look for smaller, more athletic guys, sacrifice size for speed. They want a guy who can get back into coverage and have good range. Justin Durant really fits the bill there.
"He doesn't have the size you look for. He played at a lower level of competition, but he was very productive. He's a lights-out hitter, he's explosive, and he really falls into the perfect mold in what you look for in a Cover-2 middle linebacker.
"Whereas the other guys, like, Brandon Siler's a little bigger than you prefer, not really explosive. Buster Davis doesn't have great speed. David Harris is a little bigger, although he did time better at the combine than most had expected. He could be a possibility there. Justin Durant even though he is a little undersized, they don't mind that in a Cover-2 scheme. I think he'd be a good fit for the Lions.
"There's a chance he could be available at the top of Round 3, but there's talk that a lot of teams are interested in him in Round 2. If they want to make sure they got him they'd have to pull the trigger at the top of Round 2."


I'd take the chance and hope Harris or this Durant kid slips to the 3rd round (unless we move down from #2 and get extra 2nd rounders). I really think the 2nd round pick has to be spent on OL. Staley, Blaylock or someone like that. #2 will not be OL (they won't take Thomas), and 3rd round+ I just don't think you'll find a starter at RT there.

Is Atlanta's pick at #8 and their 2 2nd rd picks viable? Seems like we could get Patrick Willis with 8 and then go with other positions of needs with 3 2nd rd picks?

Is Atlanta's pick at #8 and their 2 2nd rd picks viable? Seems like we could get Patrick Willis with 8 and then go with other positions of needs with 3 2nd rd picks?

It works on the NFL pick value chart, yes. I think Willis is currently rated in the 12-15 range, so they may be able to trade down again. If Willis is gone, they could take Jammal Anderson there.

What makes you think the Raiders wouldn't take Russell still if we traded them McCown? Josh is only under contract for one more year and history has shown over and over again that a rookie QB needs a year, or at least 6 games, on the bench learning the system before you overwhelm them and destroy their confidence early. The majority of the successful starting QB's in the league sat for all or most of their rookie season. Guys like Peyton are exceptions, and even he had a terrible first season. I think Oakland would take McCown as this year's QB and Russell as the starter for the following season.

Jethro, I think you are right, but the Lions have too much to lose if they send them McCown and then they somehow don't take Russell. That trade would best be done on draft day, after the Raiders have picked.

It depends on what they would trade for him. If it's a 5th rounder or something like that, then they must not think that high of him and might still take Russel. If they offer a 3rd rounder (doubt it), then they won't use another pick on a QB. My guess is they see him as a stop gap for Russel if they want McCown.

Ok, well I'll just question your knowledge level

I must have been sleeping on Adams. But, no matter how much I'm sleeping I believe I still got ya on the knowledge level because you are the guy that claimed "Reggie Bush is the most overrated player in college football" (prior to Heisman) and "Ohio State's offense is so overrated" (prior to BT title and 40+ on Michigan). haha, sorry I had to go there

I don't care about his stats, I stand by my opinion in Adams being a horrible choice. And I no longer want Joe Thomas either. He said he's not going to the draft, he's going fishing. I hope he's freaking kidding. If you don't think being drafted into the NFL is an important enough thing to make an appearance, I DON'T WANT YOU ON MY TEAM.

With those eliminations, that leaves Russell, Quinn, CJ, and AD. Regardless of the depth situation, history, etc. I'd be excited about drafting any of those players with Quinn being the biggest question.

While I agree it's a bit off for a potential #2 pick to skip the draft, I think I would rather have someone down-to-earth than someone who shows up wearing a lime green suit with big black pinstripes, a bright orange tie, 3 chains and big rocks in their ears with sunglasses on indoors. Basically someone who is all flash and no substance. I'll take the gritty fisherman anyday. I think Aaron Gibson skipped the draft because he was eating White Castle that day. Not eating at White Castle, but actually eating White Castle, the entire place.

I still think Bush is overrated. Just so you know. 7th in his DIVISION in rushing and 3.6 ypc? Come on. If a Heisman winner did that in Detroit we would call him a bust. He did very, very well recieving out of the backfield, like he did at USC, but he gets a ton of love as a RB and I say he's a flanker.

Additional evidence. His rookie teammate, selected at the end of the 7th round, had a bigger impact and finished ahead of him in rookie of the year voting in spite of missing all of 2 games a part of another.

Bush was better in the 2nd half of the season and I'm not saying he sucks, but come on. The hype on Bush is almost as though the heavens had parted and he was officially the Second Coming. When you get that type of hype, you need to beat out the other starter and come in and rush for 1,200 yards and score 15 TDs. He didn't which is why I say he's OVERrated. You can be very good and still be OVERrated.

I still think Bush is overrated. Just so you know. 7th in his DIVISION in rushing and 3.6 ypc? Come on. If a Heisman winner did that in Detroit we would call him a bust. He did very, very well recieving out of the backfield, like he did at USC, but he gets a ton of love as a RB and I say he's a flanker.

C'mon dude! Are you kidding me? First of all, you said it during his college career and he answered by winning the HEISMAN TROPHY. Sometimes you've gotta just take your lumps and move on. Please don't try to justify calling Reggie Bush overrated at USC.

Secondly, Bush is an all around talent. You ignored his receiving stats and his return stats. As far as his rushing yards go, he split carries with Deuce and Deuce got nearly all the goalline carries. The Saints went from duds to studs last year and I believe a big part of that was Reggie and sometimes just the threat of him on plays in which the defense had to adjust. We'll see by the end of his career if he's considered "overrated."

Drew Brees = underrated

Apparently Adams has some character issues sprouting up (pot usage, ect) and he doesn't play the run. I'm liking Calvin Johnson more by the minute (or a trade down that nets us Willis).

If pot usage scares you about a player, you probably should NEVER watch another sporting event for the rest of your life.

I don't mean that he used pot in general, but the fact that it's been brought up as a read flag doesn't sound good. We've seen how motivated Chucky is, and what it's done to Ricky Williams. They also said he doesn't play the run at all either. I don't need another Kalimba here.

I wish every player on the field was stoned, drunk, or both. The games would be alot more exciting and fun to watch.

Jethro, I wondered why you failed to include Bush's receiving stats, but now I know why. If you included them, it would have made you look like a fool to call him overrated.

88 receptions, 902 yds RUNNING BACK

That makes 1500 total yards, 88 receptions, and 10 total touchdowns as a rookie splitting carries and you think he's overrated.

The fact that Gaines Adams said he used pot can also be seen as a positive due to his honesty. Most players have used pot, but Adams is honest.

Where are you getting your stats from? According to ESPN he had 742 rec yards. Are you counting postseason? That's good, rate him according to 18 games instead of 16 games. If you have to add 2 extra games to make your case it just proves my point.

During the REGULAR SEASON he had:
565 Rushing yards, 6 TD
742 Recieving yards, 2 TD

Look at what other first rounders have done as rookies -
Addai - splitting carries
1081 Rushing, 7 TD
325 Recieving, 1 TD

Maroney - splitting carries
745 Rushing, 6 TD
194 Recieving, 1 TD

Was Bush the best of the bunch? No, but he's on the cover of all the magazines. Keep in mind that few RB's had a worse ypc average than Bush. Like I said, he's listed as a RB but his skills are as a flanker. If I had to run the ball and needed the yardage, I absolutely take either of those 2 before Bush. If I need a back that can't hit the hole but can line up outside the tackle and catch a pass, I'll take Bush. Hardly the savior of the NFL that the media has made him out to be.

You also mentioned he doesn't get many red zone carries. Whose fault it that? If I have a stud back on the cover of 80% of the magazines as a rookie, you would think I would give him a shot in the red zone. Truth is, they feel much safer running the ball with a back who gets injured on a regular basis and destroys fantasy teams, because he can actually get over 4 yards. Remember, I'm not saying, nor have I ever, that Bush sucks. I'm saying he's OVERRATED - and you still have come up with a convincing argument that he's not.

With the hype he got, he should have beaten out Deuce for more carries, rushed for over 1,000 and double digit TD's. Madden got it right. They put a rookie from last year on the cover, and it wasn't Bush.

I got my stats from CBS sportline. I defended his NFL 1st year because I see how much he impacts a game outside of just stats. Defenses are afraid of him.

You want my argument? I don't need one. This was never about his NFL career.

Before Bush's last season at USC, you said, "Bush is the most overrated player in college football."

I ripped you for your opinion.

He won the Heisman trophy. End of story.

It was never about his NFL career, it was about you saying he was the most overrated in college football and then him proving that he was the best in college football. Admit it, you were waaaaaay wrong.

I don't see how what Jethro said about him prior to his senior year matters. What matters is whether he was overrated last year, which I agree with Jethro on. If he was as good as everyone made him out to be, he'd be a full time back getting goal line carries. The truth is that many experts actually predicted what he'd be, which is a very versitle weapon, but not a feature back by any means. I'd gladly have him on my team, but he's not even in the top 5 RB's on my list.

You're jumping in on an old convo Chris and you really don't know what we're talking about. Jethro went off saying "Bush is the most overrated player in college football." He said this before his last season at USC. I completely disagreed with him. Then Bush went on to win the Heisman trophy. Obviously, he wasn't even close to overrated in COLLEGE.

Then he followed it up by saying prior to this year that OSU's offense was overrated (preseason) and that their offense wouldn't be that good. Then they hung 40+ on Michigan in the game of the decade or whatever fraud tag they gave it.

Winning the Heisman Trophy is evidence of being overrated. Seriously, how often does the trophy really go to the best player? Line up stats and it never works out. There were other backs in the country that were better for sure. Even his own teammate was the one they used when they wanted to score. He was explosive, for sure, but if you actually want to quote me on what I said, it was, "How could someone who gets so few touches really be hyped this much? If he was that good, USC would get the ball in his hands at least 25 times per game. He's seriously the most overrated player in the country." I still stand by it. The Heisman Trophy shows just how highly rated he was. You put his stats on a guy at Alabama, Texas A & M, Minnesota or Clemson and he's a great player with a huge upside. But at the USC Heisman Trophy factory, he's an instant Hall of Fame player and the best player college football has seen in years. Yeah, whatever.

It's weird, but it almost seems like the key to the whole top of the draft is Andrew Walter. If the Raiders still like Walter and think he can be their guy, they take Johnson. Not only does that screw the Lions, but it's then possible that JaMarcus could drop all the way down to #6, where the Dolphins or another team could try to move up to get him.

If they don't like Walter, they take Russell and tyhe LIons can then trade the #2 pick for the highest bidder on Johnson.

What do you guys think happens if the Raiders take Johnson #1?

Lots of possible weird scenarios.

You're jumping in on an old convo Chris and you really don't know what we're talking about. Jethro went off saying "Bush is the most overrated player in college football." He said this before his last season at USC. I completely disagreed with him. Then Bush went on to win the Heisman trophy. Obviously, he wasn't even close to overrated in COLLEGE.

Then he followed it up by saying prior to this year that OSU's offense was overrated (preseason) and that their offense wouldn't be that good. Then they hung 40+ on Michigan in the game of the decade or whatever fraud tag they gave it.
Again, what does Jethro's opinion of some college teams have to do with Bush being overrated in the NFL? The arguement in this thread was about his NFL career, and you brought up his UCS comment. And it doesn't matter anyway, because he was overrated in college too. Was he the most exciting player? Yes. The best? No. I would have picked Young over Bush for sure. Bush was a great player on a very talented offense. Young basically made that offense himself. To win, and win by such a large margain shows you how overrated Bush was. Again, he wasn't even good enough to be the feature back in college.

There are some reports on many mock drafts that Dwayne Jarrett could be available in the 2nd round............what do you guys think about Detroit jumping on this cat with 2.2? Another Mike Williams or a Keyshawn type player?

The Marcus Robinson signing yesterday was interesting.

When I first saw that, my first thought was that he is going to replace Mike Williams.

That is an interesting signing. Hmmm. 1 year deal, maybe training camp fodder. I don't know, it wasn't long ago that he seemed fairly productive, but we'll see. I thought Tai Streets, Kevin Johnson and Corey Bradford would have been factors, too. Once upon a time that would have sounded like a nice 3 WR set, but we got them all too late. This might be the same deal.

You know, I was thinking about it. How often does the team with the best OL win it all? Best QB? Best RB? Etc? Really the last franchise guy we had was Barry and he got us one postseason win.
Now what about the best defensive player? I keep thinking about guys in the Super Bowl like Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Derrick Brooks, Ted Bruschi, etc.
I'm really starting to think that the strength needs to be the LB unit. Bailey, Sims and Willis. Trade down just far enough to get Willis and address the other needs through the rest of the draft. Lions 1st round LB's have been pretty decent. Chris Claiborne was often criticized, but he had 100 tackles in each of his last 3 seasons in Detroit. Sims is looking good, Reggie Brown was a stud, and I think Patrick Willis could possibly make this group one of the best in team history.

I've decided to include Chris Speilman in that group. Even thoughn he was a 2nd round pick, he was chosen 29th which by today's standards would be the first round.

I wouldn't draft Jarret. While we need a #2 wr, I wouldn't spend a second rounder on one. I feel better about Furrey at #2 than I do with our CB's, OG's and MLB's right now. There will be good options for those positions in the top of the 2nd. i'd rather take a couple flyers in the 6th/7th round on WR's from small schools and hope you get the next Colston.

Yeah, guys. Furrey was really productive last year, I don't think we need to pick up a WR in the second round. There's bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

How many more Mike furreys are there out there? Who knows, but I have a feeling Shaun McDonald will be productive in the slot, and the only WR that should be drafted onto this team is Calvin, and thats only to trade him.

LIONS PLAN TO PICK JOHNSON

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the Lions have decided that, barring a blockbuster offer, they will use the No. 2 overall pick in the draft -- and they will select receiver Calvin Johnson if, as expected, he is available.

Schefter says that offensive coordinator Mike Martz was one of the key cogs in the decision, based on his explanation to the the powers-that-be as to how he would use Johnson.

We'd previously heard that the Lions will draft Johnson and then maybe trade him. But maybe, just maybe, the Lions will use their fourth first-round pick in the past decade on a receiver, and keep him.

well, its probably the funniest outcome, so it works for me.

These guys at ESPN are hilarious!
The "Let's Suck Notre Dame Dick" network is all over poor ol' Brady Quinn not being drafted. For months ESPN has had guys like Merril Hoge and others saying "No way would I draft a quarterback in the first round", and many of them had Quinn as a flop if drafted with a high pick.
Now they're all lining up to put his pacifier in his mouth if he drops it.
I don't like the kid, I don't think he's that accurate, or strong armed, and doesn't have a good deep ball. He isn't good at reading defenses, and isn't too quick in the pocket.
I don't know why ESPN is crying for him, word has been out for awhile that Quinn isn't highly respected in the NFL. I'm not saying he won't be good or great, just that what he's done at Notre Dame isn't impressing many people.
But, then again, ESPN is going to always be jockeying to get that Notre Dame football package should NBC give it up.

i think its funny that espn had that fake debate "russell or quinn?".

please. no one was taking quinn first.

i wonder how many millions joey harrington is taking from brady. good stuff. i bet he wishes the lions took him, now.

9 Picks before our second and Alan Branch and Joe Staley are still available. It could get interesting here.

Branch (DT), Staley (OL), Grubbs (OL), Olsen (TE), D. Harris (LB), Posluszny (LB), or a DB (Jackson, McCauley, Houston) or QB (Beck, Edwards, Kolb) are all available with 7 picks until the Lion's 2nd.

Who do we end up taking?

Would we really consider Branch when we have Rogers and Redding? I think Harris would be the more likely pick if he's there, but I have a hunch Indy might take him.

Interesing trade down. I'm guessing they saw Harris, Houston and Blaylock all still there and none of them jumped out as the obvious pick. So to drop 9 spots and grab a 3rd might be ok. Now, will any of them still be left when Detroit picks? Who knows? Maybe if not they'll end up taking one of the QB's. I'm guessing with the 3 picks they have left they go QB, OL, and defense, whether MLB, DE or CB.

I'm guessing that we traded down to get a QB.

Wow, Kolb as the 3rd QB taken? I was sure that everyone had Stanton, Edwards, and/or Beck rated higher. Pretty sure Philly could have made that pick later in the round, with the 57th pick. But at this point any questionable picks between here and 43 are good news.

Well, in the last 2 picks we lost 2 potential targets in Blaylock and Beck, but with 2 picks left until ours I see David Harris, Chris Houston, and 2 more QB's still hanging around. I would be surprised if we didn't go with one of those 4. I guess there are some other options that wouldn't be horrible, but they would surprise me a tad.

Ok, should be a lock for Harris to be there. San Fran is the only team left and they couldn't possibly take both Willis and Harris, could they?

we just got okeedoked by indy. theyre going to take our boy.

Stanton sounds like a good choice. Nice pick

What now, do we cut Orlovsky? Trade McCown?

Good God, I didn't think Millen could be any more retarded.

stanton?!? hmm... me no like. although a mobile qb will be necessary if we want to keep a patchwork o-line.

Stanton:
See my opinion of Brady Quinn, and throw in injury prone. The winners of at least FIVE recent Super Bowls will never be known as "mobile": Brady, Manning, and Roethlisberger.
I may not think Quinn is going to pan out, but in Stanton, I see nothing that says NFL Quearterback.

Wow. Tre just called me and he's hyped. I obviously would have prefered Harris. Maybe we could package a couple 5th round picks with our early 3rd and still get him, or maybe like Hall and Branch he'll drop even further. Or perhaps we end up with Siler, HB Blades or even Sims old teammate Buster Davis, but I really hope we get a MLB that can come in and outperform Paris Lenon.

Yeah I actually agree that Harris would be a more beneficial pick and Stanton still has a lot of question marks. I hope he (Harris) slips like you said Jethro.

Good God, I didn't think Millen could be any more retarded.

I defintiely would have taken Harris instead. I do like Stanton's potential. He was rated ahead of Beck and Kolb on most boards. He had a shitty coach at Mich. St. so the pick isn't horrible, just could have been better and safer with Harris.

I just don't think Harris fits in with Marinelli's defense. The MLB has to be a quick guy to take care of the TE between the safeties, like Urlacher. Good project pick, and I like them holding onto Johnson.