billy king has denied that the 6ers are in talks with new york over webber.

if NY trades for webber, theres no way theyd trade for sheed too (*I think*).

many of us believe the only way we keep chauncy is by moving sheed. and im not sure there is another team out there that would give us what we want for sheed (expiring contracts).

if the 6ers give the knicks webber, that very well could mean we cant resign billups.

maybe its time we start a 'fun with sheed trades' thread?

no one needs to post the sheed for rose & frye trade that pharoah came up with (and glenn always tries to take credit for).

i think the priority in any sheed trade needs to be to get atleast 5 million off the books for next year.

If we're moving Sheed, why would we want 30 year old Chauncey back with a massive (and long) contract? Doesn't make sense. I'm on the fence without Ben here as it is. No point in tying up all of our money if we can't win with this group. Might as well rebuild.

maybe its time we start a 'fun with sheed trades' thread?

no one needs to post the sheed for rose & frye trade that pharoah came up with (and glenn always tries to take credit for).


I have two threads for you b-diddy.

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6000

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4035

We're getting screwed out of sheed trades? Bad for you. Great for the pistons. Your clean house obsession is at an all time high huh?:rolleyes: [smilie=burgerking.:


few of us believe the only way we keep chauncy is by moving sheed. and im not sure there is another team out there that would give us what we want for sheed (expiring contracts).
Fixed it for you.[smilie=blaha.gif]

If Billups leaves then fine. But i doubt that theres a big group of forgetful fans thinking we should trade sheed to keep cbill. we went that route with Darko(who isnt even half as good right now IMO), and screwed ourselves when Ben bolted. I doubt Joe makes any wild trades to pay cbill what some other teams will offer(somebody's going to offer a super max deal or close to it i'm guessing). it'll be a matter of getting the most money vs good money to play on a winning team. But if he bolts then we'll have to move on. I'd rather move on with as many pieces as possible left over. no trades please.[smilie=burgerking.:

look, i want to clean house. true.

but thats not happening. the pistons are going to keep this together as long as they can. if we dont move sheed, we're probably going to lose billups... you think THAT is the time to start the rebuild? after we just lost our most valuable trade commodity 2 years in a row? most people think you deal from a position of strength, you think the opposite. interesting.

i think if billups leaves, he gets replaced with a MLE pg, we dont start over. so i'd rather have billups at the max than sheed at 12.

and why bring up the darko trade (a trade you favored, i believe). it was a stupid trade then and now. joe flat out fucked up. but thats not to say you dont make a similar trade in the future. its just you do it right, rather than half assed.

i think if billups leaves, he gets replaced with a MLE pg, we dont start over. so i'd rather have billups at the max than sheed at 12.
thats you. but we wouldnt pay billups all that, sheed or no sheed. so its a moot point.



and why bring up the darko trade (a trade you favored, i believe). it was a stupid trade then and now. joe flat out fucked up. but thats not to say you dont make a similar trade in the future. its just you do it right, rather than half assed.
i brought it up because its a similar scenario. wasnt just about the trade. it was about who we did it for and them leaving anyways. if we keep ben wallace its a good trade. since we didnt its a bad trade. the variables are what they are. and you're talking bout trading an all star for a "maybe" chance guy we still arent going to pay max type money to, if he gets offered that much by another team(which he probally will). it would look dumber than the darko scenario. so i doubt it happens. but hold out hope that we destroy this team. maybe we'll get an nba live created roster while we're at it. [smilie=burgerking.:

ok, fine. explain what you would do if your the pistons.

i really want to hear your game plan.

if you wont elaborate, i'll just summarize what you've said:

-cant trade chauncy, that would ruin the team

-cant trade sheed (to open up cap room) that would ruin the team

-cant sign chauncy, that'd cost too much.

WHATS THE PLAN? let chauncy walk THEN blow up the team? replace chauncy thru FA?

if you wont elaborate, i'll just summarize what you've said:

-cant trade chauncy, that would ruin the team

-cant trade sheed (to open up cap room) that would ruin the team

-cant sign chauncy, that'd cost too much.

WHATS THE PLAN? let chauncy walk THEN blow up the team? replace chauncy thru FA?
thats what YOU say. no need to try and speak for me. i'll hire taymelo if i need a lawyer to do that.

What i'd do? Make him a solid offer, but not max. Theres no reason to get desperate for billups if he more than we can afford. We'll have enough to sign him, if he wants to stay here. If he just wants the fattest check possible. we arent going to end up with him. spin that however you like, but you've said yourself we dont payout like that. But we arent so cheap that our offer will be garbage. It'll be up to him.

There's no letting cbill walk. If he leaves it'll be his move. just like it was ben's move. If he chooses to leave Joe D will have to have a plan B in order at PG. But i doubt he leaves if Flip doesnt get fired.

Trading Sheed and keeping Chauncey at the end of next season doesn't create much cap room.


BYAAAAAAAH!

if you wont elaborate, i'll just summarize what you've said:

-cant trade chauncy, that would ruin the team

-cant trade sheed (to open up cap room) that would ruin the team

-cant sign chauncy, that'd cost too much.

WHATS THE PLAN? let chauncy walk THEN blow up the team? replace chauncy thru FA?
thats what YOU say. no need to try and speak for me. i'll hire taymelo if i need a lawyer to do that.

What i'd do? Make him a solid offer, but not max. Theres no reason to get desperate for billups if he more than we can afford. We'll have enough to sign him, if he wants to stay here. If he just wants the fattest check possible. we arent going to end up with him. spin that however you like, but you've said yourself we dont payout like that. But we arent so cheap that our offer will be garbage. It'll be up to him.

There's no letting cbill walk. If he leaves it'll be his move. just like it was ben's move. If he chooses to leave Joe D will have to have a plan B in order at PG. But i doubt he leaves if Flip doesnt get fired.

so this offseason wasnt bad enough, you want a repeat performance next year?

i'm not saying your wrong, but its a stupid plan and your a sick fuck for condoning it.

the pistons are putting themselves in position to be the victim again. and when you put yourself in position to be the victim, well...

so this offseason wasnt bad enough, you want a repeat performance next year?

i'm not saying your wrong, but its a stupid plan and your a sick fuck for condoning it.

the pistons are putting themselves in position to be the victim again. and when you put yourself in position to be the victim, well...

Well, It all depends on how the team plays this year. If we're just a run-of-the-mill 50-win pretender (which I fully expect), then what's the point in re-signing Chauncey? Might as well rebuild. Preferably you move Chauncey AND Sheed before the deadline for young talent and draft picks to a team looking to make a final push. Losing Ben completely changes the way you have to look at how we go about signing new players and re-signing current players. You have to start thinking about the future.

i agree. but giving nazr 30 million dollars makes me believe thats not what the pistons are doing.

i think if we had dedicated to rebuilding the second ben left, we could have rebuilt a championship team in 3 years. we could have kept tay and rip, traded sheed and chauncy for space, prospects, and picks. we'd have had 2 or more firsts next year, cap space, 2 core pieces, and some young talent that developed this year. not a bad position to be.

instead, it looks like theyre going to see this thing out to the bitter end, and fix axe wounds with bandaids.

----------------------------------------------------------------

i'm just saying what i think we should do in the context of the pistons' MO.

I don't think we are at the position where we need to rebuild. Joe D can get away with letting Ben walk because Ben was no longer thriving in the current Flip Saunders system. Plus we didn't win a championship last year either.

Joe is being careful and not dealing his chips until he has the full picture. Can his new starting five thrive under Flip Saunders? Is Flip Saunders a playoff caliber coach who can take us to another championship? Can Chauncey continue to play at the level he did last year? Will Flip Murray become an impact player off the bench? How will Rasheed play this year? Will he [Rasheed] be a presence in the post? Will Maxiel have any impact? Etc etc...

If the Pistons have another good regular season and they look like they have keepers in Nazr, Maxiel, Flip, Amir and Delfino then Joe D will stand pat. But if there are any signs of trouble then Joe will probably make a move to unload Chauncey and maybe Rasheed or Delfino since these are his most valuable chips.

Of course, I'm guessing but this is what I would do.

b-diddy's seems like a plan of fear to me. If you are scared of losing everyone, then what's the point of getting anyone? Eventually everyone comes to a contract year. Do you send off any player no matter how crucial they are to your team simply because they might leave one day?

If you have a good team, your players are happy, and you can offer a competitive offer then you go with it. You don't start shipping off all-stars because shit teams might go all out for them.

fear? you bet.

if chauncy was going to settle for a "fair" offer, why wouldnt he just sign right now? hmmm? why would he risk a year of injury just to sign for less? hes not. thats rediculous. players dont just leave money on the table too often, especially when they havent had a huge payday yet. if he wanted to sign for less, he wouldnt wait till FA next summer.

so you either position yourself to beable to keep him (no matter what the cost), or you trade him. or, you play this year out, let him leave for nothing (or sign and trade), and go from there. I prefer one of the first two options.

if you think chauncy is going to sign with us for less next year, your drinkin the koolaid with gutz.

Since he's still under contract, the Pistons would have to renegotiate his contract. Since the Pistons aren't under the cap, they can't do this. How about you learn the rules before you start making up bullshit reasons to be more afraid.

Have we worked out what the Piston's salary position will be (because if we have, I've forgotten)? This years tax level is 65 million and Hoopshype has us at 57 mill. With next year's committed salaries so far at something like 47 million (I guessed at Tay's and Nazr's contracts, assumed every player but Chauncey took their player option, and ignored re-uping the rookies till after the Billups deal). Assuming the tax is 66-67 million next year, that's 19-20 million a year available, under the tax, to resign Chauncey.

Yeah, I'm drinking kool-aid because I don't think we need to ditch a 12 million dollar contract to re-up Chauncey when we are already plenty below the tax to do so (the deal offered to Ben, 12 mill, showed that our tightwad owner will go up to but not over the cap).

Since he's still under contract, the Pistons would have to renegotiate his contract. Since the Pistons aren't under the cap, they can't do this. How about you learn the rules before you start making up bullshit reasons to be more afraid.

Have we worked out what the Piston's salary position will be (because if we have, I've forgotten)? This years tax level is 65 million and Hoopshype has us at 57 mill. With next year's committed salaries so far at something like 47 million (I guessed at Tay's and Nazr's contracts, assumed every player but Chauncey took their player option, and ignored re-uping the rookies till after the Billups deal). Assuming the tax is 66-67 million next year, that's 19-20 million a year available, under the tax, to resign Chauncey.

Yeah, I'm drinking kool-aid because I don't think we need to ditch a 12 million dollar contract to re-up Chauncey when we are already plenty below the tax to do so (the deal offered to Ben, 12 mill, showed that our tightwad owner will go up to but not over the cap).

ok, i thought we could extend him, but he'd be limited to a deal starting at less than 8 per year. so i guess that explains why he's not already extended.

as for your tax issue, here are the numbers for next year

sheed=12.5
rip=9.75
tay=8.5
nazr=5.7
lindsey=2.25
dupree=1

team total=~39.7 million (6 players)

then you have team options

carlos=1.9
maxiel=1

now your probably up to 42.6 million (8 players)

then you have player options

antonio=6.4
flip=1.9

team total= 51.9 (10 players)

then you have 2 first round draft picks, 1 second round draft pick, and amir johnson.

now lets break that down.

we have 6 guys guaranteed back next year. but should lindsey or dupree be relied upon for any role then? probably not. so you have 4 guys. sheed will be that much older, and we'll have that many more miles on the dyess, tay, rip, and chauncy.

then you have carlos and maxiel. maybe they break out, maybe not. most likely, we'll take up both options, and we'll have 6 guys we can play.

then you have dyess and murray. my guess is dyess picks up his option, murray opts out. at this point, we'd have 50 million, and 7 players locked up.

our rotation would look like this:

c: muhammed/?/?
pf: sheed/dyess/max
sf: tay/?
sg: rip/delfino
pg: ?/?

to fill all those gaps, we'd have our 3 draft picks (2 first, 1 second), the mle (but not the LLE), chauncy's bird rights, amir johnson, whoever else we've drafted in the second round lately (probably blaylock).

how much do we sign those 3 draft picks for? depends on where they end up. but lets call it 3.5 million. we'll be lucky if even one of those guys can be a rotation player. my guess is we draft a serviceable big man with the orlando pick.

amir johnson is a huge question mark. pharoah has suspected it could take the full MLE to re-sign him. who knows? but if he's going to be worth a rotation spot, he's going to get a contract starting at the multi-million level. for this, i'll say he gets a deal starting at 2 million.

add it all up, and we have (very rough estimate) 57 million (including blaylock making the minimum) on the books BEFORE we sign chauncy, and we look like this:

c: nazr/rookie center
pf: sheed/dyess/maxiell
sf: tay/johnson/dupree
sg: rip/delfino
pg: chauncy/blaylock/hunter

plus 2 other rookies.

------------------------------------------------------------------

the obvious position to take from is PF, since its the only one we have any depth.

we could also move dyess, but then we'd be cutting it awfully close (the lux tax can go down too. plus i was being conservative on the numbers), and we'd have absolutely no room to add depth. to me that team desperately needs to use the mle, which we couldnt if we kept sheed.

and quite frankly, i'd rather keep dyess than sheed. sheed showed me everything i needed to see this playoff run.

of course, there are other options too.

we can avoid paying our 3 draft picks, not pick up delfino or maxiel's options, or not re-sign amir, and we'd save ~7.5 million, which would probably be enough to keep billups. i believe billups will be a 10 year player when next summer, meaning he can get 35% of the salary cap (projected to be 17.5 million).

that means, to have max room under the lux, we need to be anywhere from the 47-50 range. so, even going with a bare bones roster might not save dyess/sheed.

So even spending as much as you can on guys who haven't played a minute of game time or were hardly in the rotation last year, while you discount vets who have held down actual roles on this team as "unplayable", and pretend like there's a point to having more than 8 or 9 guys who will actually get consistent playing time, you still have 10 million for Chauncey. Somehow I think its a better idea to lose a few projects rather than a starting all-star.


(the lux tax can go down too. plus i was being conservative on the numbers)

The salary cap has gone down only once in the history of the NBA and that was due to the signing of a new, predominantly cable, TV deal w/o having Magic, Bird, or MJ as players. Its guaranteed not to go down the year we are talking about (same with the lux tax since they are based on almost the same calculations). And it doesn't really matter if you're conservative with a contract or two (was the "conservative" part signing the last pick in the 06 draft to a guaranteed contract in 08?) signing everyone you can think of including the towel boy, Mason, and Hooper sort of blows that out of the water.



sheed showed me everything i needed to see this playoff run.


This thread would have been so much shorter if you'd have just said this in your initial post. This is your whole point. You've made it before. I'm sure you're start another thread saying it again.

what? i addressed EVERYTHING in my post.

dont want to sign the young guys? fine. that can save you up to 7.5 million. but thats not going to give you max cap room.

about the lux tax going down, it was projected to be 63 this year, and to the surprise of everyone, it went up to 65. so just guessing, for it to go down next year is probably reasonable. or atleast, just as likely for it to go up to 67.

and having 10 million for chuancy doesnt do you shit. thats enough to say you offered him a 'fair contract' when he signs with some other team.

The small sum of 10 million is only after you had them sign even the towel boy to your idea of the roster (because Maxiell is critical to the roster but Hunter and Dupree, guys who have actually played minutes in this league and contributed to championship teams, can't be counted on as "playable guys"). 10 million is almost a least amount possible for them to have. Its nowhere near the most they could have w/o trading an important player.

Even that prediction (Who's prediction was 63 million, Dumars'? You seem to love to throw things out like "many of us believe" and then not explain who any of the "many" are outside of youself.) tax was an increase from the previous year. It makes no sense to say, "Well, 'they' guessed it was 63 last year so maybe that's what it will be 2 years later."

You didn't "address EVERYTHING" in your post. You tried to spend as much as you could before addressing the position of starting point guard (because I'm sure Dumars will worry about 2nd round draft picks and re-uping guys who don't play before he locks down an MVP candidate and starter).

Just admit this is the same old "I want Sheed gone" argument so we can move on.

1. fine, dont re-sign maxiel, that opens up 1 million, and our number goes down to 56.

2. dupree has not, nor ever should be, a rotation player.

3. we're talking about 2007-2008. lindsey will be 37. when he 'contributed to our championship', he was 33, and was considered old then. most people (i'll leave it as a vague 'most'. WTFchris is actually the one that told me most people dont like lindsey only because he's a rotation player. if you have issues, take that up with him) think lindsey shouldnt have been a rotation player LAST year, and we're talking a year from now. i dont think its a stretch to say he shouldnt be relied upon for heavy minutes.

4. the 63 number was what the piston's (and everyone else's) accounting departments estimated the lux tax to be, and why we rushed into contracts with lindsey and nazr. had we gotten the surprisingly high official numbers, we'd have had cap space and probably would have had a very different offseason. i cant calculate what the number will be next year, but it makes sense to me that we wont have another big jump after having a surprisingly big one this year.

5. i didnt spend as much time addressing everything before getting to chauncy. what? should we just not pay the guys we have obligations to? tell the guy's with player options not to exercise them? I specifically said we dont have to exercise our team options, that we can avoid paying our draftees, and can opt not to sign amir. but we'd have to have 12 guys on the roster, so that 7.5 i said we could take off is more like 5-6.

6. i wont admit this is just me wanting to get rid of sheed. its all a rich tapestry. why dont you admit this is all just an ad hominem attack on me?

Because I haven't attacked you at all, just bullshit comments like "We have to trade Sheed to keep Chauncey", "if Chauncey wanted to stay he'd resign right now", "lets sign a roster full of rookies so we can be a couple million short of the money needed to sign an all-star in his prime".


i didn't spend as much time addressing everything before getting to chauncey. what? should we just not pay the guys we have obligations to?
Read better. I said you went out and tried to spend as much as possible and played it off like you were exhausting the topic. Incredibly your little financial plan for the future had wholes and areas where you're thinking wasn't universally considered as the best.

In the end, if your point would have been, "we probably will need to trade someone to clear some room for Chauncey" I would have agreed as I expect that will happen anyway. After all, how many seasons has Dumars been the GM and not made a trade? However, I don't think " the only way we keep chauncy is by moving sheed". I think that's been shown by the fact that there's still 10 million left even if Dumars signs everyone he looks at and makes zero moves other than doing so. The fact that you continue to hold onto that clearly false claim looks to me like you're still just calling for the guy to be shipped out.

(BTW, I'm not neccessarily against moving Sheed.)

for the 4(?) th time, the only discretionary moves we can make involve the young guys, and like i said, thats only going to save you 5-6 million. 5-6 million probably isnt enough if the tax is 65 next year, because that would put our number at 51-52, giving us room of 13-14 million to start.

but not using the draft picks, and not bringing back delfino, maxiel, and amir is extremely impractical. but take our base salary for 2007-2008 (49 million) and go from there:

5. our starting center has never played more than 25 minutes a game. this isnt due to lack of want. its that he's extremely foul prone. but after this year, not only is he our starting center, he's our only center. so we better use the orl pick on a big man, and even then, how many rookie centers are good for 23 minutes a game? especially when theyre not drafted in the top 5? if we draft a center with the orl pick, that probably puts 2 million more on our cap. so our 16 is now down to 14 (the draft happens before FA, so we'd have to address this before chauncy).

lets say we pull a phoenix, and dont use our other two draft picks for the 07-08 season, and save money.

4. we let maxiell walk, to save that million dollars. our PF spot is now manned by 34 year old rasheed and 34 year old mcdyess. also, these two will certainly have to help out as backup centers. hope we dont have any injuries!

3. we let amir walk. tayshaun is now backed up exclusively by ronald dupree. but by this point, we should be used to no backup SF's.

2. we let delfino walk to save 2 million. rip, hope you like playing 48 minutes a game, 82 games a year.

1. we've got 37 year old lindsay, and former number 60th pick in the draft will blaylock running the show. with that much depth, who needs chauncy? if we do want to keep him, we'd have 14 million to offer. guess we can keep sheed.

oops. we only would have 10 guys on the roster. got to have 12. the good news is, rip gets a backup. we could sign guys to the league minimum, or use the mle, but we have to find 2 living bodies to add to the roster, which knocks down what we can offer chauncy to about 12. but when you look at our roster's depth (we're a 6 man team again,except our starting center can only play 25 minutes a game, rather than the 40 ben could. plus, our bench would undoubtedly be the worst in nba history) this team is a pile of puke.

so your right, if chuancy will agree to a deal starting at 12, we dont need to move anyone.

----------------------------------------------------------------

and who else could joe trade mid season? dupree's .8 million dollar salary? blaylock's .6 salary? one guy i guarantee cant be traded is hunter. so if its neither of those two, then your limited to nazr, dyess, tay, or rip.

joe doesnt have alot of options on this one.

for the 4(?) th time
That's my line.


the only discretionary moves we can make involve the young guys, and like i said, thats only going to save you 5-6 million.

I can't believe you are making me go back through your own crap.


we can avoid paying our 3 draft picks, not pick up delfino or maxiel's options, or not re-sign amir, and we'd save ~7.5 million,



but not using the draft picks, and not bringing back delfino, maxiel, and amir is extremely impractical. but take our base salary for 2007-2008 (49 million) and go from there:
My math puts us at 47.8 committed for 08. Hence my SECOND POST in this stupid thread about 20 million open if they want to sign Billups. Even in your sky's falling worst case scenario game, its still more than possible to sign Billups. Even if he can make 17+ million and some dumbass team offers him that (we are talking 1.5 million less than Duncan, almost Shaq's contract in the 1st year and FAR more by the end of the contract. I'm sure they will be lining up to pay that one.) and the Pistons were stupid enough to still think him worth it, they could still CTC.



blah blah blah oh no only 3 big men in the rotation
Haven't done that for the last 2 years.



blah blah oh no how will we get by w/o Maxiell or Amir or Delfino playing
Haven't done that for the last 1-2 years.


joe doesnt have alot of options on this one.
No shit. Especially in your examples where every team is willing to pay the max for Billups and everything that could hinder the Pistons resigning him happens.

look, i've addresed everything. i get the feeling your not reading my posts anymore.

i'll stop with this, the pistons have 3 options if they want to keep chauncy:
1) keep sheed and dyess, and have the worst depth in nba history.

2) keep sheed, trade dyess, keep some of their young guys, and have crappy depth, but better than #1.

3) trade sheed (can actually take something back, too), keep dyess, keep the young guys, and still have the MLE.

#1 is not a real option. 2 is a possibility. 3, imo, makes the most sense.


honestly, your not thinking this thing through. we're talking about 2007 here. and a lot of your points have been real stupid. the pistons used a 3 man rotation of ben, 31 year old sheed, and 31 year old dyess. true. but that doesnt mean they can use a 3 man rotation of nazr "25 a game" mohammed, and 34 year old sheed and 34 year old dyess.

the pistons dont need maxiell, johnson, or delfino to play, but they do need *someone* on the bench in 2007. did you even watch the playoffs the last 2 years? our guys were gassed. your being absurd if you think we can get by with 6 guys again.

I'm not reading your shit? I'm wading through it and quoting your continuous line of inconsistencies! Your one and only point in this thread, that the Pistons can't keep Sheed if they want Chauncey, is 100% wrong but yeah its my stuff that's been "real stupid".

The fact is, you see Chauncey signing a max contract with someone and I don't (no one is going to pay him more money than Shaq nor nearly as much as Tim Duncan!). I accepted your bullshit premises of the luxury tax threshold not moving and some team being dumb enough to give Billups the max and there is still enough room under the tax to straight out sign Billups. Of course it fucks the future, ITS SIGNING CHAUNCEY BILLUPS TO A MAX CONTRACT! You know what fucks the present? Shipping off the starting PF for a bunch of small contracts and "potential". Regardless of who the Pistons can't sign because of it, SIGNING CHAUNCEY BILLUPS TO A CONTRACT THAT PAYS 17+ MILLION FOR THE FIRST YEAR ITSELF SAYS F-U TO THE FUTURE.

The reality is that the tax threshold will go up a bit, Billups will sign something around 12-14 million, the Pistons will keep a couple guys like Delfino and Amir, and Dumars will have to give away or simply release a potentially useful player like he did with Evans. Wow, how inconcievable!

Guess what, if some team comes along and offers Billups the max, he's going to that team. Not because the Pistons couldn't sign him to the max, but because the Pistons aren't going to sign him to the max. Shipping off Rasheed so that there's plenty room under the luxury tax threshold to sign Billups to the max and keep every player who walks into the practice facility isn't going to change that fact.

I ain't reading 3 pages of cap discussion that is not accurate

By the Numbers:

(all numbers according to Hoopshype unless otherwise stated)

Sheed: $12,540,000
Rip: $9,750,000
Dice: $6,373,900
Hunter: $2,250,000
Dupree: $826,046

Those guys are apparently locked in.

Maxiell ($1,041,360) and Delfino ($1,868,141) have team options that will certainly be picked up.

Once Billups opts out he counts for 150% of his salary until signed by us or someone else. So his figure is $10,228,500.

IF the Orlando Pick is #6 we get it and it would count against our salary for $2,155,100.

IF our pick is #15 it would count against our salary for $1,217,800.

(NOTE: I seriously doubt the picks are that good, so the salary spent on those 2 picks will be a bit less. But for this discussion the higher number is important)

Now, Hoopshype doesn't have salaries for Prince or Nazr. Using their salaries for this season and adding 10% is a nice way to make the numbers work for this dicussion.

So throw in another $8,601,240 for Tay and $6,000,000 for Nazr.

TOTAL TEAM SALARY: $63,852,087!

Even if Ronald Murray doesn't opt out we'll have a total team salary of $65,742,087

Yes, I'm aware I didn't include Dale Davis (retired?), Will Blalock or Amir Johnson. Blalock will get the minimum if he comes back and Amir's situation is weird due to him being a second round pick and not having a 3 year deal.

Now, WTF does this mean for Billups?

Billups is gonna get a starting salary between $10-12,000,000 and we'll be right at the tax threshold.

If Murray opts out and the picks cost a little less Billups can get a little more cash.

Bottom Line: We're in a decent place financially to retain Billups after this season.

Thanks for the thread though guys. It's nice to see I'm still fucking needed.

I always appreciate a label from someone who didn't read what they are labeling. Most of the thread was b-diddy trying to set up a "worst case scenario" situation in which the Pistons can't sign Billups. Your breakdown is solid though P and is pretty much a more concise version of what I was saying (though in my defense I did have a lot more statements like "your point is bullshit" in my stuff).

LOL

Fool - I went back and read the thread and realised I basically supported your side of it but was too lazy to edit

pharoah: the problem with your post is you only account billups for 10.2 million in your numbers. while that is 150% of his current salary, its probably well under what he'll get in the market. so what does 10.2 mean? nothing. imo, you have to allow for 14 starting out on billups, if you want a legitimate chance of keeping him. whether billups is worth keeping at a deal starting at 14 is a topic for a different thread, but allowing for less doesnt do us any good.

also, blaylock is under contract next year for ronald dupree money.

Storytellers has Blalock as a team option in 08 (that's the only site I see it even listed). Which would make sense for a 2nd rounder.

Have any of you even considered Hunter retiring after this year? I read somehwere (one of the local papers like Detroit News or Free Press, sorry i don't remember which) that he was considering retiring after last year. It's not inconceivable that after another long season and a few rounds in the playoffs he could hang up the sneakers and join Joe D with the suits in the suites.

Yes we would need another pg then, but maybe Blaylock shows something and we keep him around, or maybe Flip Murray or Delfino show they can run the point adequately while Billups is on the bench.

Maybe Delfino finally tells Joe D he wants a trade and we pick up a young pg with some potential in the trade. I haven't done any research so I don't know who would be out there (maybe someone like Bino Udrah will be available) You never know what's going to happen.