Gas. Oil. Petroleum. Theft. Ass-ramming. Whatever you want to call it, it is apparently posed both as one of America's worst problems and one of its greatest successes. On the surface, it may seem to be a problem, and it is for the nation's citizens. But the government has had its chances at control, and either it has missed them or it has ignored them. And the prices aren't due primarily to overseas conflicts as it may appear, as American oil companies have recently had their greatest profits, far more than in previous years.

I'm not going to yell conspiracy, but one chance we had at redemption was the electric car. Now, I know this car wasn't ideal for many people who need to travel great distances, but for commutes to work and such, it seems like an amazing alternative to oil-guzzling petroholics. We saw the electric car in California for a couple of years only for it to disappear. The nation hasn't heard from the alternative since. They say good ideas don't die, so I hope the electric car can manage to survive. As technology advances, I see no reason why the tech of the electric car can't advance so that the car lasts longer and is eventually a more ideal vehicle for road trips.

Sure, there are "hybrids" out there right now that combine oil and electric technologies, but of course, they still use oil. And with the oil companies reaping benefits like never before (and Americans with asses sore like never before), they have no reason to worry right now as the hybrids aren't making a large enough splash to really put any kind of dent in the oil companies' massive tank.

I don't know, I kind of made this post as a rant, and a bit of a look back -- what did happen to the electric car? It seemed to be such a promising technology, the kind that one hopes will advance. I hope the idea hasn't been reaped by the reaper itself, Big Oil. With recent murmurings of possible "water fuel," one can only keep faith that the oil ass-ramming will end soon enough.

Are you aware there's a 90 minute documentary out in theaters as we speak called "Who Killed the Electric Car"?

I haven't seen it yet, although I'd like to.

Perhaps you should.

PS: Although my lease isn't up, I'm waiting for a call back from Toyota for lease rates on a loaded Prius.

If its close to what I pay now, then I know what my next car will be.

60 miles per gallon? Right now I'm getting like 11.

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

hemp.

I just don't understand how our president allows the gas companies to increase the prices like this. They claim they raise them to keep up with the rising price of crude oil. If that were the case, I understand. But how are they increasing their profits by %40? The profit should not increase if you simply raise gas prices to keep up with crude prices. Any president not named Bush would do something about that, regardless of party affiliation.

Okay...I'm gonna play Taymelo, here. Soak it in -- you won't see this much.


First, one must think 21st century if one is to understand the so-called "energy crisis", which really isn't a crisis at all. The new thought is -- there are no countries, only corporations and conglomerates. There is no USA vs. Saudi Arabia, since most of the western CEO's and Arabic Royalty know each other very well, as do their children. Most of everything we see on the news, regarding the "crisis", has been pre-ordained to a certain extent.

For instance, how can a single incident in the Middle East INSTANTLY affect the price of gasoline across the board if the petroleum product you currently use is weeks old, and the new "affected" product won't see a gas pump for some time? The answer is simple: just because.

Same with local energy, such as Enron. Bush and Kerry BOTH knew Kenneth Lay personally. When the energy crisis hit Cali some years back, did either of them step forward and demand Enron (which was found later to be a major contributor to the problem) alter their path? Nope. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, or helps you get elected.

Yes, politicians can step in and TRY to do something, but more often than not they'll wait until and election year, which is THIS year, so expect a drop in gas prices until the elections are over. The politicians allegedly work FOR the people... but multinational corporations work FOR the politicians, to get them elected. Once in, I doubt any Senator or Representative is going to blow too loud a horn at the folks who landed them (or helped them maintain) such a cushy job.

The whole idea that we're slaves to OPEC, and slaves to companies like Enron, is bullshit slung upon you by those very same people. We AREN'T powerless to push OPEC, since the US is the single largest consumer of natural fuel in the world. The real question is: do we WANT to?

hemp.
Bingo. You get a gold star.

I just don't understand how our president allows the gas companies to increase the prices like this. They claim they raise them to keep up with the rising price of crude oil. If that were the case, I understand. But how are they increasing their profits by %40? The profit should not increase if you simply raise gas prices to keep up with crude prices. Any president not named Bush would do something about that, regardless of party affiliation.
its all about the special interest. maybe mccain wouldnt allow it. but its hard to say for alot of conservatives. they are willing to pay millions to them all. and only a few would decline. the democons would be more of a pain in the ass though. my problem is with the gullable party members who back the excuses being laid and the no nuts democons who don't fight these things harder. its utter shit on both sides in dealing with bush and they are both are guilty of lertting this retarded headstrong brainweak ape run rampant in his white house chair spinning in it like a 7 year old.

The politicians allegedly work FOR the people.

they always work for somebody and get a check from somebody. but anyone gettinmg a check from the energy groups need burn down in heavy flames. fuck a party, wheres bill clinton?[smilie=dissed.gif] i actually liked about 60 percent of his planned agenda(though a repubic congress roadblocked him to his grave).. i may never get that high a percentage again. and thats another dumbass move by voters. putting in a repubic congress with the president to send shyt into full blown shithole.

Yes, politicians can step in and TRY to do something, but more often than not they'll wait until and election year, which is THIS year, so expect a drop in gas prices until the elections are over. The politicians allegedly work FOR the people... but multinational corporations work FOR the politicians, to get them elected. Once in, I doubt any Senator or Representative is going to blow too loud a horn at the folks who landed them (or helped them maintain) such a cushy job.

The whole idea that we're slaves to OPEC, and slaves to companies like Enron, is bullshit slung upon you by those very same people. We AREN'T powerless to push OPEC, since the US is the single largest consumer of natural fuel in the world. The real question is: do we WANT to?

Right, Denny, that's a bit of what I was getting at.

And about that movie, Taymelo, yeah I probably won't watch it but it's good to know somebody's making this a subject of attention.

I wasn't talking only about gas prices either. Losing gas driven cars (no pun intended) would be a great thing for the environment as well, not to sound like a tree hugger or anything, but it's true.

For instance, how can a single incident in the Middle East INSTANTLY affect the price of gasoline across the board if the petroleum product you currently use is weeks old, and the new "affected" product won't see a gas pump for some time? The answer is simple: just because.


Every commodity from corn to ram chips to oil works this way. The short answer is that it sells at a price today to cover the cost of purchasing tomorrow's supply and tomorrow's supply is purchased today.

Both seller and buyer are looking into a crystal ball to set a price for a future delivery so the price gets bidded up higher due to fears of political instability or anything else that might negatively affect future supply. Oil is the only commodity that has such political sensitivity but they all have sore spots. A bad crop forecast, a factory fire in taiwan, an outbreak of mad cow... any of those things could affect prices the moment they happen.

I did see "Who Killed the Electric Car?" last week. It's a good documentary explaining the apparent lies of Ford and GM. Bush supports hydrogen fuel cell technology, a ridiculously expensive technology that is light years away. The electric car was at our doorstep, but it was killed by the manufacturers who are assuredly in ties with the government and oil companies. The manufacturers claimed a lack of demand, but you can't actually test the demand until you put the electric car on the market with all the others. That's simple economics, and sometimes making the economic assumptions that are usually safe is not safe at all. While they were around, electric cars were owned only by a select few people (mainly celebrities and people working on the car) in California.. The bottom line I took from it is that, obviously, money controls America, the people don't. Not unless we come in mass numbers, anyhow, and we never do anymore.

Also, the topic title may need changed to "The Electric Car."

One... the Bush family made their millions on oil. Both times a Bush has been the president gas went up. Clinton being president, gas rose less than inflation.

Two... if I remember correctly (might be wrong) we get more oil from Canada than the middle east. If Im wrong its a pretty close percentage. So middle east issues shouldnt effect the gas prices like they do, but the people in power dont want you to know that.

Three... to what e-ray said (not attacking you or anything, just sayin) BMW has a preliminary TV ad out for a hydrogen-powered car. Who knows what it will do on the market, probably not much, but its there.

PS: 'HowEmbarrassing' your sig is wider than my window lol

i believe the electric car was killed because it really was simply unfeasible. its been a while since whatever, but it came down to it was more expensive, offered way less, problems with what do you do with the waste, and producing electricity to power it still used oil, but less eficiently than just having a car run on oil.

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, this is all ridiculous. at some point, the horse and buggy was a better choice than the automobile. however, the car wasnt scrapped, because people had the vision to see that technology could be improved to tip the scales. think about the internet. how does 3 kb's a second after trying to dial up sound? you want to show your buddy a picture? you'd probably walk it over to him and show it to him by hand. you want to "bust a nut" you'd probably go out to a bar and bring home a girl rather than just jerking off to youporn.

green is clearly the answer. screw the market. if tech doesnt pop up till its more price efficient than the alternative than tax the shit out of gas until we dont have a choice.

moral of the story: we should all drive electric cars watch lots of youporn.

ps there is the syriana theory about the US eating as much oil as possible so that china cant develop.

As far as a BMW hydrogen car being close to production, I was totally unaware. I had asked my philosophy professor, who I assumed having a PhD in the subject of Environmental Philosophy would be more knowledgable than I. I also thought that we were closer to having alternative power sources than alternative for gasoline. She had also said it would be possible to buy these soon, but for something outlandish (1 million or so). She said the reality couldn't be realized until a long, long time from now. But, hell, my teachers aren't always right.

The electric car is far and away the more technologically attractive and potentially environmentally friendly car, so I don't really understand your argument about the evolution of the internet... As far as it goes, though, I think electric cars would have been a great way to curb the gasoline consumption until something more efficient popped up.

They didn't just phase out the electric car, they (GM, Ford, etc) took them back from the owners without letting the cars be bought and destroyed them.

I may have to do some research on what the emissions are from gas powered automobiles vs. the emissions from power plants (electric cars), because that's something the movie didn't clarify much at all.

Why arent electric cars successful? Ill take that right on. We love our PISTONS (nice plug eh?). We want power. We want racing. We want cars with muscle. Ill be damned if my Mustang is gonna be electric, hybrid, or be outrun by a Honda. People can smarten up a bit aside from buying a new car with better mileage (this is for people like myself who arent buying a new car soon). My mustang, according to Ford and that sheet they put on the window when its in the lot gets 24 mpg city. I get 33 mpg. Wow, amazing, and how? Buy a K&N filter. Just a Mustang thing, but I took the extension off my air intake. It's shaped like a V with the small end being at the end of the intake. Car breathes better, car runs better, car eats less gas. Long story short, look at your car and how it runs and you too can get an extra 7 mpg out of it.

my point was that its unfair to criticize the electric car for its inefficiencies (which are probably real, today) because technology improves if we work at it, and its likely within generations of producing these things we could have near identical performance to our favorite gas guzolers.

As far as I'm concerned, let's all get plug-in electric cars now so the power utilities will be forced to reconsider nuclear power. Because deep down, we all know that's the only thing that will cure the energy crisis: make everything electric and split the atom to feed it.

At what point do we look in the mirror?

Point 2 for my not liking electricity... our electric bills around here just went up 25%. I'm pretty good about electric.... I keep my heat/AC in check and keep lights off and have gas stove n oven. My electric bill is now comparative to my cable bill. With cable I pay extra for a digital box, HBO, and the sports package. So maybe electricity is cheap for you, but if I had to plug a car in I'm not so sure it would be better than gas. ComEd for the record.

At what point do we look in the mirror?

We should be now. It is up to us, I think, because our government is too tied up with money in order to do anything right.

And yeah, b-diddy, I agree with you. Like anything else, it would have probably increased from getting just 140 miles per charge.

And UxKa, although the electric cars didn't have great top speed, they supposedly zipped pretty good to their peak.

At what point do we look in the mirror?

No the increase in demand on world oil reserves (mainly China) is Bush's fault.

Well, it is true that we are a nation full of people who are accustomed to getting exactly what we want at low low prices. It's kind of a lasting after-effect of the Depression and the War. In the 30s and 40s most people were really broke and even if you had money, some things were just really hard to come by.

That generation developed an attitude of "I'm never going through that again!" So they did everything they could to secure their incomes, and held on for dear life. They passed that attitude to their children, too - most of our parents were their children. Now that all this paranoia about money is starting to have a price, it's our generation who has to shoulder the burden.

I hear older people whining all the time about how disappointed and fearful they are about how this generation won't do as well as their parents did. Well, you did it to us, fuckface! You jerks guarded your resources like any moment the Nazis were going to come take them away from you, and that increased the demand, which sent prices skyrocketing out of control for decades upon decades.

When someone has a job managing a resource, and they think to themselves "I'm going to restrict supply and maximize profit as much as possible," they rarely think to themselves who they're profiting from: their grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

At what point do we look in the mirror?
Solely in terms of current affordability, I have to agree.

Bills go up because the energy out of the ground is a world resource with a price tag set by the world markets. By virtue of America borrowing to the hilt, we have the dollar falling, so if nothing else happens (like, say, the world becoming more and more scarce, fears due to instabilities in the places where the oil is), we pay more. Some of that can be blamed on Bush, borrowing to drunken-sailor degrees to stir up oil-extracting trouble in places we didn't have as much of it before. But much of it is rooted in the American culture of people carrying huge balances, writing checks that our labors can't cash.

Lots of people are hoping that global warming unveils new oil resources in the Arctic, which is a vicious cycle if ever I heard one.

I hear older people whining all the time about how disappointed and fearful they are about how this generation won't do as well as their parents did. Well, you did it to us, fuckface! You jerks guarded your resources like any moment the Nazis were going to come take them away from you, and that increased the demand, which sent prices skyrocketing out of control for decades upon decades.
The decline of the unions came about once companies realized that union workers would sell out their young to save their own asses.

And they wonder why there's antagonism...