It's a simple question.
http://www.pitt.edu/~mrmst55/caray6.jpg


Lions Schedule
Sep 10 Seattle 1:00pm
Sep 17 @Chicago 1:00pm
Sep 24 Green Bay 1:00pm
Oct 1 @St. Louis 4:05pm
Oct 8 @Minnesota 1:00pm
Oct 15 Buffalo 1:00pm
Oct 22 @N.Y. Jets 1:00pm
Week 8 BYE
Nov 5 Atlanta 1:00pm
Nov 12 San Francisco 1:00pm
Nov 19 @Arizona 4:05pm
Nov 23 Miami 12:30pm
Dec 3 @New England 1:00pm
Dec 10 Minnesota 1:00pm
Dec 17 @Green Bay 1:00pm
Dec 24 Chicago 1:00pm
Dec 31 @Dallas 1:00pm


Raiders Schedule
Sep 11 San Diego 10:15pm
Sep 17 @Baltimore 1:00pm
Week 3 BYE
Oct 1 Cleveland 4:15pm
Oct 8 @San Francisco 4:05pm
Oct 15 @Denver 8:15pm
Oct 22 Arizona 4:15pm
Oct 29 Pittsburgh 4:15pm
Nov 6 @Seattle 8:30pm
Nov 12 Denver 4:05pm
Nov 19 @Kansas City 1:00pm
Nov 26 @San Diego 4:05pm
Dec 3 Houston 4:05pm
Dec 10 @Cincinnati 1:00pm
Dec 17 St. Louis 4:15pm
Dec 23 Kansas City 8:00pm
Dec 31 @N.Y. Jets 1:00pm

Lions. Both teams have new QB's, but Brooks has been the guy for the same team since he came into the league. It will be interesting to see his adjustment. Meanwhile, the Porter mess makes it chaotic there. Moss and Jordan are better than anything we have going offensively, but we'll see how it works around them.
Kitna knows how to come in and fit with a new team quickly while making the most of what he has. The talent is here, no doubt, he just has to get it out of them.
Defensively the Lions were better last year than Oakland, and I think the Lions will be even better this season on D. Oakland should also be improved, but edge to the Lions being a bit ahead.
I think our schedule is also a tad bit easier.

Given all that, neither will be a playoff team. We're looking at maybe 7 wins for the Lions on the high side, about the same for the Raiders on the high side, but we have a slightly better chance of getting there so I think we'll finish with one or two more wins.

I also have 7 for the Lions, and 5 (tops) for the Raiders.

Not only are the Raiders a mess, but that division (thus, that schedule) is brutal.

I'm interested to see what our many resident Raider fans have to say.

Raiders. Our coach has more experience in coaching though both are high on discipline. we only have one crybaby receiver, the lions have 2 1/2, our crybaby receiver is in the best shape of his career, yours is getting fat, jon kitna breaks even with aaron brooks IMO, aaron brooks has a stronger arm and faster feet, Andrew Walter has more upside than Josh McCown, Your defensive has more experience, your DT's are better easily(shaun rogers one of the top 5 in the league), i like our DE's better for pass rush, I like our o-line better, and we are faster on defense.



EDIT: Brooks is definately better than Kitna. better career QB rating, a better td to INT ratio, and more td.s in less years. And my memory of kitna as a rival in seattle was a guy who sucked worse than brooks when his o-line wasnt great.

I also have 7 for the Lions, and 5 (tops) for the Raiders.

Not only are the Raiders a mess, but that division (thus, that schedule) is brutal.

I'm interested to see what our many resident Raider fans have to say.
The beauty of watching espn, is that you dont know mess about the raiders if you think we are a mess. We are all on the same page for the first time since the gruden era. Porter is the lone whiner. And he was whining in the gruden era so who cares. Fuck him, he aint a leader on this squad.[smilie=blaha.gif]

If you want a non bias look at the raiders go to NFL network. Espn in a beef with Al Davis and they've exchanged cheap shots for awhile now.

I think the Raiders are better. They have some good youth and a lot more team speed on offense than the Lions.

EDIT: I think the Lions will win a game more because of SOS.

How many wins for the Raiders since they have it all together, Gutz?

10? 11? More?

How many wins for the Raiders since they have it all together, Gutz?

10? 11? More?
i'm not naive. its not a perfect sb team yet. but i figure between 7 and 9 wins. definately not 5 wins as someone said. For the lions i see them maxing out at 6 wins. the qb situation is not that much more improved and looking at their careers i'd rather have brooks over kitna. brooks will stretch the field better and make more plays. his last two seasons his o-line was garbage and without blocking he's prone to force more passes. but i think our o-line will be pretty good this year.

Then theres the Moss factor. a factor that has helping scrambling heave ho qb's like brooks throughout Moss's career. Prime examples were cunningham(who was supposed to be washed up that year he was hitting moss) and cullpepper(you see how he is w/o Moss). With that said, i even have Walter as my darkhorse, Not because brooks isnt able. But because I think he can be that good. But we'll see in a couple weeks how things are looking.

Damn, I was hoping that I was finally going to be able to document you being wrong about something for the first time, lol.

If the Raiders get 9 wins this year, I'll eat my hat.

Damn, I was hoping that I was finally going to be able to document you being wrong about something for the first time, lol.

If the Raiders get 9 wins this year, I'll eat my hat.
i'd prefer if you ate his hat.[smilie=burgerking.:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20011015/226freddy_mu.jpg

Seriously though my low is 7-9 my high is 9-7. anything else would surprise me.

Let me clarify one thing about my Lions fandom.

If they aren't going to make the playoffs, I would rather they didn't win a single game.
Why? Because what's the point of mediocrity? We did that during the Wayne Fontes Era and sure, games were interesting but I chalk that up to the special experience of watching Barry run 43 yards side to side, making 9 people miss, with 3 of them missing twice, and gaining 6 yards on what should have been a two yard loss.
I want my team drafting high to get great talent. Millen has screwed the crap out of that theory, but even a blind squirrel, you know? Twice the Lions screwed themselves last year out of anyone other than Ernie Sims, and for what?
So, since I don't expect the Lions to be a playoff team this year I hope I'm wrong and they win fewer games than the Raiders so they can draft someone that will have a better chance of making a difference. Who? No freaking clue because we signed 15 mediocre grunts at each position this off-season and I still have to sort out who has guaranteed deals. As long as it isn't Dwayne Jarrett or anyone with a legal pad full of injuries, discipline issues, arrests and/or excessive cravings for a dozen cheeseburgers I'm fine.

I'm guessing that if the Lions get anything less than 6 wins this year you won't have to worry about Millen screwing up another draft.

Then again, he might just have another 2,312 lives left, so nevermind.

thats a horrible mentality. type of culture that kept me away from the lions as a child. Raiders motto is commitment to excellence. win as many games as possible and gamble on trying to win ever year hit and miss. no more than a two year development process allowed. i like it that way. I know 9 out of ten years my team is trying to compete right away. its hit and miss but better than a team trying to allocate draft picks. Especially when they draft like the lions do.

Gutz... it's who we are. Lions fans don't understand what winning feels like. Every year, the Lions have a better chance of winning the April Superbowl (aka the Draft) than the February Superbowl (aka the unreachable destination). So, as a Lions fan, the one thing we look forward to each year is how we will screw up our first round draft pick.

Give us some credit though. We like to suffer. We'll sell out every game despite the fact the Lions haven't won in 50 years. That's love. Unlike say, Arizona, who struggles to get 20 fans to a game.

Oh Raiders will win more games this year. I will not be fooled by the Lions again.

Lions 5-11, Raiders 7-9.

Lions 5-11, Raiders 7-9.

The "Fire Millen" movement won't take long to re-energize itself if that is the case. Man, that would be really ugly (and possibly fun).

Lions 5-11, Raiders 7-9.
thats pretty fair.

We just don't have playmakers. Like the NBA, the NFL is a league in the midst of rules changes designed to open the game up and allow for big chunks of yardage. Other than Dre Bly and Baby we don't have anyone who stays on the field and fits into that kind of system.

Best Case Scenario: 7-9
Worst Case Scenario: 5-11

Prediction: 6-10

Raiders 9-7 No playoffs
Lions 7-9 No playoffs



Saints (with Bush) 12-4 Super Bowl Champions
Saints (w/o Bush) 0-16 Natural Disaster Fund Candidate


Seriously, if Palmer is healthy, the Bengals make it to the dance after beating the Chargers in the AFC title game.

Where they'll play the Falcons.

Ratings buster!!!:cool:

Raiders 9-7 No playoffs
Lions 7-9 No playoffs



Saints (with Bush) 12-4 Super Bowl Champions
Saints (w/o Bush) 0-16 Natural Disaster Fund Candidate


Seriously, if Palmer is healthy, the Bengals make it to the dance after beating the Chargers in the AFC title game.

Where they'll play the Falcons.

Ratings buster!!!:cool:

Wow. I would be shocked if any two of the things you listed happened.

Art Shell, baby. He's 3 wins alone.
Raiders.

Oakland 3-13
Lions 2-14

You are an idiot.

You are an idiot.
co-signed. (not necessarily the same reason or reasons)

WE'RE GONNA WIN TEN GAMES!!!!
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9330/778xw3.jpg
BYAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Oakland 6-10
Detroit 4-12

The Lions are the early favorites for the Number 1 pick, I'd imagine. Who here likes Brady Quinn?

The Lions are the early favorites for the Number 1 pick, I'd imagine.

Actually since starting this thread, I've seen several experts that have the Raiders as the worst team in the NFL (probably just Raider hate as Gutz said, lol). I've also heard a few saying the Jets may be the worst, no mention of the Niners, however.

The Lions are the early favorites for the Number 1 pick, I'd imagine.

Actually since starting this thread, I've seen several experts that have the Raiders as the worst team in the NFL (probably just Raider hate as Gutz said, lol). I've also heard a few saying the Jets may be the worst, no mention of the Niners, however.

I definitely disagree with the Jets being the worst; as for the Niners, good point. They lost arguably their best defensive player in Julian Peterson and will have an inexperienced O-line (two rookies started last year) to go with a developing offense.

Niners v. Lions, anyone?

Do you guys relize that Art Shell has never had a losing record in his Coaching career?

I hope he enjoys his first then.


I guess I just don't see why you think the Raiders are going to be any good, Anthony. What did they add? Aaron Brooks? If you're banking on that then..... YIKES.

Prediction: Moss and Brooks make TO/McNabb fued look like childs play by week 6.

Art Shell

Fair enough...

As long as your happy.

If Art Shell makes you happy, then I'm happy.

His past record makes me happy, and so does the fact that Moss will be able to go down field this year and not be left out to dry and Ignored by that sad excuse for a QB Kerry Collins.

For some reason I think RaiderNation is going to want Aaron Brooks' head by week 4 or so, maybe sooner.

I guess we'll see.

For some reason I think RaiderNation is going to want Aaron Brooks' head by week 4 or so, maybe sooner.

I guess we'll see.
Glenn my friend, the lions fans have the record for most qb heads in their collection. [smilie=burgerking.: I see mccown being called for by week 4. get the asrmchairs blazing. [smilie=paca.gif]

Do you guys relize that Art Shell has never had a losing record in his Coaching career?


Do you realize that he hasn't coached in what, 12 years?

FYI

Bodog's over/under on season wins for the Raiders is 6.5 and 7 for the Lions.

Do you guys relize that Art Shell has never had a losing record in his Coaching career?


Do you realize that he hasn't coached in what, 12 years?
you understand yours has never been a HC ever? And i'd still take brooks over kitna.
Aaron Brooks
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133233

jon kitna
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1847

:)

Oh trust me, Gutz, every single Lions "fan" knows this. You won't find a single person in here who thinks the Lions will do well this year, we just don't feel that the Raiders will do that well either.

Honestly, I think this is the first year that Lions fans aren't eating the cornbread.

i still say between 7-9 and 9-7 which isnt all that well in the afc. but better. the lions have a shitty division. so anything is possible. but i dont see them winning more than 6 games.

Glenn, did you choose Oakland becuase there are a few oakland fans here, or becuase they were just as bad last year?

I chose them because there are some Oakland fans here and because I thought it might be a reasonable discussion.

Two teams whose fans historically think they are better than they really are.

I love Aaron Brooks. He's probably the best at putting away a game with a late interception over the middle. He's clutch in every loss.

Can we get "Neither" added to the poll so I can vote? C'mon Glenn. You keep making these loaded polls to get the response you want, and frankly, it's not very damn democratic.

I love Aaron Brooks. He's probably the best at putting away a game with a late interception over the middle. He's clutch in every loss.
i loved your starting qb for the same reason when he was in seattle. go figure.[smilie=burgerking.:

i dont see him starting though. Andrew Walter is ready to start IMO. he should win the job before the preseason is over.

For some reason I think RaiderNation is going to want Aaron Brooks' head by week 4 or so, maybe sooner.

I guess we'll see.


i dont see him starting though. Andrew Walter is ready to start IMO. he should win the job before the preseason is over.

Wow, it happened even faster than I thought it would.

Gutz is always so defensive. I don't know about Walter starting. I certainly don't like Brooks but I don't think anything Walter did screamed starter to me.

As for the Lions qb sucking, there's a new flash.

Gutz is always so defensive. I don't know about Walter starting. I certainly don't like Brooks but I don't think anything Walter did screamed starter to me.

As for the Lions qb sucking, there's a new flash.
i disagree on the walter assessment. he had timing issues and we threw too much at one point w/o running. I think he'll be a serious threat with the first team offense and lamont rushing. but throwing every down will lead to int's, it would for any young qb. So i thought he did very well and much better than brooks.

One other thing is that he hasn't played since last preseason and was injured half of last year recovering from a surgery to correct a nagging groin injury. So i think he'll get his timing down better with more time. This aint a mike mcmahon situation where the guys timing is off because he can't throw worth a shit. :)

@Glenn: it doesnt count for seeing the future since i've been calling the kid a possible starter since early summer. I really do think he can run the vertical offense we need better than any qb we got. And he's also better at eluding the rush than some scrambling qb's. The kid has more physical talent than every qb on the lions roster. Its just a matter of getting his comfort back and learning the offense a little more. He's learning it faster than our vet qb though.

my only thing i said about brooks was that i'd take him over kitna. i still would. but doesnt mean he's great. maybe he can be. but i dont think he can be better than walter could this year IMO.

Looks like we'll get a look at both teams tomorrow night.





But I'll probably watch the Steelers instead.

Yikes.

i was thinking in the back of my mind that mike martz might make the difference here. then again, i thought the same thing when we switched to garcia last yera.

good to see some things never change. part of me looks forward to completely destroying martz's reputation. i think this promises to be a very, very entertaining season. can we match 'fire millen'? i'm actually a little concerned that this could be the season of apathy.

Question answered, 21-3.

Lions 5-11
Raiders 6-10

i suspect the lions will have the better record in games where the team was forced to fly out (on their private jet)8 hrs before kickoff due to unforseen circumstances, though.

i hear for game 4 marrinelli is going to lace the team's cooler with LSD, just in case the opposing team ever gives us the o' 'gatorade & acid' trick. you just cant be too careful with these things.

The Raiders just signed 39 year old Jeff George!!!

The Raiders just signed 39 year old Jeff George!!!
yes. tui is garbage and andrew walter is has an injury history. i have no issue with him as the emergency vet if all goes wrong.

6 wins for both assuming the Lions start playing better as the season gets going.

It should be unofficially 10 to 4, now that the G's are sayonara.

Now that Yahoo has decided to place Aaron Brooks on my fantasy team, I see the Raiders going 14-2.

The Raiders are a BAAAAAD football team.

Nuh-uh, Vinny. They have Art Shell as their coach.

Even I didn't think it was going to be this bad. And I knew it would be bad.

9 First Downs

9 sacks allowed

9 punts

1 confused-looking coach

Oakland = fantasy dynamo. I'm starting the defense that plays them in every fantasy league I have! They MIGHT get 4 wins this year. I'd say the Adrian Peterson sweepstakes, but they already have a RB.

I caught Kowalski on a call in show yesterday and he was insisting that the Lions are going to get better, and he sees them ending up close to .500 this year.

What a joke.

I too can see the Lions getting 8 wins. In the next couple of years.

We should make the poll say: "Which team will earn one win this year?"

Randy's trying to horn in on Roy Williams media attention.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2612442


Moss doesn't see much concern among Raiders

ESPN.com news services

Randy Moss seems unconcerned about the Raider's 0-3 record and his lack of production in Oakland.

Speaking to Chris Myers of Fox Sports Radio's "The Drive" show on Monday, the Raiders receiver sounded nonplussed about the season so far.

"I'm doing good, man. I'm not even that too concerned with football right now. I'm just loving life."

Asked if he should show more concern, Moss, who has seven receptions for 84 yards and a touchdown this season, pointed to a general lack of interest on the team.

"I don't really want to single players out. I mean, I don't really know what the feeling is. But I know the feeling is bad, so that's saying no one cares about what's going on around here. I've said a few things. I've done most of the things I can do, and my thing is, if it's going to be relaxed, if I'm relaxed, then I guess that's what it is."

Moss, who was traded from Minnesota to Oakland before the 2005 season, said he wouldn't mind being traded again.

Randy's trying to horn in on Roy Williams media attention.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2612442

Yes, aside from that one touchdown grab, Moss made no real effort to assist Walter in any way. He rarely adjusts to the ball these days, and gives up on routes too early. There was one play where the ball was perfectly thrown down the line, but Moss hesitated in route and missed the catch by a step.

What an asshole®.

Lions win, Raiders looking like shit again.

This looks like it's going to go down to the wire.

The Raiders could really use Brady Quinn, I suppose.

This looks like it's going to go down to the wire.

The Raiders could really use Brady Quinn, I suppose.
not really. that guy is severely overrated and luckily we don't draft qb's that high.:thumbsup:

lol, I said that just so you would shoot it down.

And I woke up just to get the sun to rise.:tongue2:

but i seriously wouldnt mind drafting mike hart in a lower pick.

I vote that the Steelers be added to this poll.

Somebody shoot me: I just caught myself looking at the Lions Schedule and mumbling to myself that every game except @ New England looked winnable. Why do I do such things to myself?????

[smilie=puke.gif] [smilie=puke.gif]

How'd you like to be an Atlanta Falcons fan?

Lost to the Lions and the Browns (at home) in back to back weeks.

Feel bad for those folks, at least Lions fans don't have any expectations.

So does the loser of this weeks Lions game wrap up the #1 pick?

If we can't bear GB at home, the Jets, SF or Arizona...the I can't see many wins coming the rest of the way (we still have at NE, GB and Dallas...and Minny/Chicago at home).

GB isn't a gimmie really (for anybody), they are tied with Minny and are actually in the NFC playoff race, as odd as that sounds.

Update

Currently:
Lions - 2 wins
Raiders -2 wins

Remaining schedules:

Lions:
Nov 23 Miami 12:30pm
Dec 3 @New England 1:00pm
Dec 10 Minnesota 1:00pm
Dec 17 @Green Bay 1:00pm
Dec 24 Chicago 1:00pm
Dec 31 @Dallas 1:00pm

Raiders:
Nov 26 @San Diego 4:05pm
Dec 3 Houston 4:05pm
Dec 10 @Cincinnati 1:00pm
Dec 17 St. Louis 4:15pm
Dec 23 Kansas City 8:00pm
Dec 31 @N.Y. Jets 1:00pm

A better question is who would win if these two teams played on a neutral site.

This thread should be renamed "Who gets the first chance do draft Adrian Peterson?"

5. Detroit or Oakland: Which team is worse?

Allen: Detroit is worse than the Raiders, but only by a hair. The key to winning games in the NFL is still running the football well and playing good defense. The Raiders have one of those items in place with their excellent defense. Also, for all the whining and harping that comes out of Oakland, the Raiders have game-changing athletes on the offensive side of the football, which the Lions don't seem to have.

Theismann: The Raiders' apathetic nature is why they are worse than the Lions. For all the Lions' warts, they still are out their playing with passion and desire and trying to get better. A lot of the Oakland players seem to have been just playing out the string since the first game of the season.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2693715

Umm, if we actually finish worse, can we just get the first 10 picks of the draft? I think we might be able to go 7-9 next season if we got that.

First, we need to trade down with picks 9 and 10 and pick up an extra first rounder so we have 11 total, and an additional 2nd rounder as well, along with our existing one still being at the top of the round>

Start all the rookies along with some rookies from this year and the few decent players we already have and our squad could be:
QB - Quinn
RB - A. Peterson
FB - Sledge
WR - R. Williams
WR - M. Furrey (love this guy)
WR - Calvin Johnson
OT - Joe Thomas
OG - Justin Blalcok
C - Raiola (not happy about this, but a sacrifice I make)
OG - Backus (also not happy, but moving him inside as a start)
OT - Levi Brown

DE - Gaines Adams
DT - Alan Branch
DT - S Rogers
DE - James Hall
OLB - Posluszny
ILB - David Harris
OLB - Sims
CB - Bly
S - Bullocks
S - LaRon Landry
CB - Leon Hall

Jethro - the Lions would still screw things up. And it would be in a way that you could never have even expected. The Lions love to challenge physics as to how far in the cellar they can go.

Case in point - look at the first page of this thread. Read it again. It's really funny. (most people would say, Lions record - best 7-9, worst 5-11. Expectations surpassed)



Also another tidbit of humor - go back and look at Gutz's and Anthony's posts on the first couple of pages. Pure hilarity!

props to the unibomber for calling the lions going after the #1 pick. He also said the jets are not a bad team too.

He also said the jets are not a bad team too.

Actually, he said that they were "definitely the worst".

I definitely disagree with the Jets being the worst; as for the Niners, good point. They lost arguably their best defensive player in Julian Peterson and will have an inexperienced O-line (two rookies started last year) to go with a developing offense.

Niners v. Lions, anyone?

Damn, sorry. I read that 4 times and still missed his point.

I guess I need more caffeine.

Yeah, the Lions could screw that up. Even if they didn't and had that draft, somehow 3 years into it they would be 3-13 and half those guys would have been out of the game.

Man, Kerry Collins sure was holding back that mighty Raiders offense. Once Collins was cut, it was like the chains came off of the hard-working and motivated receiving corp of Randy Moss and Jerry Porter, and they're finally playing up to their talent since they now have capable QBs in Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter. And man, Lamont Jordan is indeed more than just a rich man's Shaun Bryson. He can do more than just run for 3 yards a carry and catch a bunch of 2 yard check downs.

I guess I was wrong to say that Raider fans were using Kerry Collins as a scapegoat and that there were bigger problems with the offense than the QB. The problem WAS Kerry Collins, and the deadly Raiders offense this year is proof.

Lions fans and Raiders fans everywhere are hoping there isn't a similar thread next year, as it has been somewhat voodoo. How could anyone possibly predict, given all the discussion at the beginning of the thread, that these teams would be a combined 4-26 heading into the final week of the season?

Jethro, are you telling me that the Raiders have won FOUR games this season?

More wins-Lions, on a gay ass week 17 win. [smilie=puker.gif][smilie=joeyrules.g: