I was doing some digging around and I can across this old article by Wojo. I thought it might make for an interesting thread.

Feel free to post others.

This article is only viewable in the cache mode of your favorite search engine, since it has probably been moved/deleted long ago.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:b1V-J--Re-oJ:www.detnews.com/2000/pistons/0007/06/e01-86748.htm+joe+dumars+grant+hill+critical+front+off ice&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=22


Has Pistons' owner lost will to win?

By Bob Wojnowski / The Detroit News
Thursday, July 6, 2000

DETROIT -- There was a time, not long ago, when the Pistons truly did whatever it took to win. They were one of the first teams to buy their own plane. They had a smart basketball mind in the front office (Jack McCloskey) and a smart one in the locker room (Isiah Thomas). They made bold moves. They took risks. They won.

Now, the franchise is a shell, and shell-shocked. Grant Hill is poised to become the latest to flee, acknowledging by actions more than words that he doesn't believe the Pistons will win big any time soon.

This isn't about Joe Dumars, team president for less than a month. This is about Bill Davidson, the owner who used to do whatever it took, and now, perhaps because of age or arrogance, doesn't do enough.

You can be angry at Hill for his pending departure to Orlando. You can be hurt, or even puzzled. But frankly, you're misdirecting your emotion. Be honest. Can you blame him for bolting after six years, after leading the team in scoring every year, after all the fan apathy, after being told of grand ideas that never materialized?

Barring a miraculous change of heart, Hill is headed for a progressive, aggressive franchise that took a monstrous risk by dumping players to free $20 million on the salary cap. In Magic owner Rich DeVos, Hill found things he didn't feel from Davidson. Passion. A plan. A family atmosphere.

Davidson, a hard-line owner, was embittered by the labor strife that rocked the NBA two years ago. Before that, he was embittered by his dealings with Thomas, essentially banishing the greatest player in franchise history.

Whether the owner admits it or not, that move alienated fans and confused players, who respect Thomas more than Davidson might realize.

Honestly, I wonder if Davidson has lost the will to win at any cost, which is the only way you win in pro sports. Although Bison Dele's sudden departure was a factor, the team had one of the lowest payrolls in the league last season.

In Orlando, Hill sees a commitment and hunger he didn't sense in Detroit. He's too classy to blast away, but listen to his words, and don't be naive.

"I think Joe will do well as a president, if he's allowed to," Hill said during his flight back from Florida. "Orlando has a plan. Even if (Tim) Duncan doesn't come, they have a plan."

Hill bristles at the notion that he'd leave solely as a package with Duncan. He's offended that anyone would suggest he was dazzled by glitzy parties. During a lengthy conversation on the plane, Hill didn't talk about Orlando as a place to live, or a place to raise kids. He merely sees a sound basketball environment. Actually, he said he hoped to keep his home in the Detroit area. This isn't an anti-Detroit move. This is an anti-inertia move.

Hill is tired of waiting, and so is the Magic. They lost Shaquille O'Neal a few years ago to the aggressive Lakers and Magic General Manager John Gabriel adjusted, and attacked. Why did Hill have to jump now? Because there's no guarantee any other team would be in position to sign big-money free agents next summer, so there's no guarantee Hill would have any leverage.

This has happened too often now for the Pistons to blame anyone but themselves. Thomas was pushed away. Allan Houston was driven away by an insulting contract offer. Theo Ratliff and Otis Thorpe wanted out, largely because of Doug Collins. Dele quit. Next? It's Hill, who was ecstatic when the Pistons drafted him, who wanted to stay his entire career. Has any NBA team ever been blind-sided by two bigger defections than Houston and Hill?

Davidson has recognized some of his mistakes, and is trying to correct them. He has played a more visible role of late, even making the call on Alvin Gentry's ouster. Before that, he made bad hires (Collins, Rick Sund) who made bad personnel decisions (Christian Laettner, Loy Vaught).

It took a while, but the franchise's championship arrogance has faded. Tom Wilson, a brilliant marketing mind, has been nudged from basketball decisions. The hiring of Dumars was smart. Coach George Irvine is bright, and could be effective.

But superstars run this league, and Davidson seems reluctant to admit it. He uttered something a month ago when Dumars was promoted, something Hill heard, something that smacked of naivete.

Asked if it was critical for the Pistons to retain Hill, Davidson said, "I think there are players we could replace him with, quite honestly. But certainly we want him back."

Yep, there are players they could replace him with. The trouble is, the Pistons have shown no ability to attract them. Davidson's claim that 75 percent of players won't come to Detroit because of the weather is probably untrue, and certainly a lame excuse. For instance, Hill wanted to come here.

This isn't about the past as much as it's about the future. Dumars can offer words of promise, and he might be able to pull off a turnaround. But they're just words. Orlando offered action.

Ultimately, Hill sees in the Magic a team eager to build something no matter the risk, no matter the cost. He saw in the Pistons a team searching for something, grasping for something. And now, the search goes on.

Davidson has recognized some of his mistakes, and is trying to correct them. He has played a more visible role of late, even making the call on Alvin Gentry's ouster. Before that, he made bad hires (Collins, Rick Sund) who made bad personnel decisions (Christian Laettner, Loy Vaught).

Does Davidson actually do anything but fire coaches?



This isn't about Joe Dumars, team president for less than a month. This is about Bill Davidson, the owner who used to do whatever it took, and now, perhaps because of age or arrogance, doesn't do enough.
Sound familiar?

Although Bison Dele's sudden departure was a factor,

[smilie=speechless.:

eerie foreshadowing....

Davidson has recognized some of his mistakes, and is trying to correct them. He has played a more visible role of late, even making the call on Alvin Gentry's ouster. Before that, he made bad hires (Collins, Rick Sund) who made bad personnel decisions (Christian Laettner, Loy Vaught).
Does Davidson actually do anything but fire coaches?

I thought Ben Wallace fired coaches.

I think there are players we could replace him with, quite honestly. But certainly we want him back.

That comment speaks volumes IMO.

He thinks everyone can be replaced.

Although Bison Dele's sudden departure was a factor,

[smilie=speechless.:

eerie foreshadowing....

LoL


That said, I agree with Pharaoh... he DOES think everyone can be replaced. That's no way to run an organization. See what it got the Bulls?

The reality is that some people CAN'T be replaced.

i hate to say this but technically he's right. everyone can be replaced at some point especially with a quality GM on your side. just not anytime soon for some, which is where he is being somewhat of an ass. but he offered ben more than he's offered anyone. the extra 12 million woulda been a pay off to tolerate Saunders. thats too steep a payoff. he'll offer billups something pretty high. not as high as the other teams. but enough for him to stay if he likes it here and where the team is going.

i mean if he was willing to throw money out like a mad man, do we win the title we won? do we get Ben or gumpy Hill? its two sides to that coin.

That comment about Hill by Davidson is total bullshit. Hill was a top 5 player in the NBA back then. He was good for 20+ points 7+ rebounds and 6+ assists every night. You can't just replace a player like that. Getting Ben for him only looks good because Hill's injury ruined his career and Ben turned into a top 5 center (the NBA's weakest position).

Now we've lost a top 5 center because of his cheap ass. You don't just go out and replace a 5 time all-star and 4 time DPOY center. Davidson's screwed us. He doesn't care about winning. All he cares about is the team being just good enough to sell out every night. We won the title because Joe struck oil on every trade and free agent signing he made up until the end of the 04 season. Davidson's greed has lead to the team getting worse every year since winning the title. If he had the will to win we'd have 1 or 2 more titles right now.

And watch we're going to lose Chauncey after this season. Because all another team has to do is offer him a big enough contract to put us into the luxury tax and Dumbo will let him walk.

I was with a relative today who was talking about Ben Wallace, kept calling our coach Flip Wilson, and momentarily mixed up Larry Brown with Chuck Daly. It was definitely a "turn back the clock" moment...

This one's for Pharaoh.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:xlbNeiTaQXgJ:www.freep.com/sports/pistons/piston18_20020418.htm+Fifty+is+nifty..+And+Sam+Cas sell+guaranteed+a+victory+for+Milwaukee&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

http://homepages.wmich.edu/~d2lawson/stackhouse.jpg


Pistons to Bucks: Go home

123-89 rout denies Milwaukee rematch
April 18, 2002

BY PERRY A. FARRELL
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

Fifty is nifty.

And Sam Cassell guaranteed a victory for Milwaukee.

So you know how badly the Pistons wanted to reach 50 victories and send the Bucks home for the summer.

One play in the first half summarized the Pistons' 123-89 rout Wednesday night at the Palace.

Glenn Robinson lost control of a pass, and it rolled past midcourt and toward the Pistons' basket.

Robinson and Jerry Stackhouse raced for the ball, with Robinson having the edge. Stackhouse hurled his body -- bone spurs in his left foot, sore groin and all -- toward the ball and outfought Robinson for it. As he rolled on the court he spotted Ben Wallace alone for an uncontested dunk. It put the Central Division champions up, 63-42, sent the crowd of 19,473 into a frenzy and the Bucks (41-41) on their way home with 16 losses in their final 22 games.

They would have clinched the seventh seed in the playoffs with a victory over the Pistons, whom Milwaukee then would have met in the first round. Instead, the Bucks watched Indiana win and take the eighth and final playoff spot in the East.

The seventh spot went to Toronto, which will open against the Pistons on Sunday night.

The Bucks and Pistons were tied for first in the Central heading into a March 16 game in Milwaukee. The Pistons won and never looked back.

At the time, Milwaukee coach George Karl said that game meant more to the Pistons than to his club. The Pistons kept those words in mind.

"I wonder how he feels tonight about the game," Cliff Robinson said.

Karl said: "I didn't think we had enough energy in our tank to come from behind. Detroit had great enthusiasm. They had more will than we did. They made threes that broke our hearts."

The Pistons hit a club-record 15 three-pointers, in 24 tries. They took a 64-44 halftime lead, their highest-scoring half of the season.

Rick Carlisle (50-32) became the top first-year coach in Pistons history, passing Chuck Daly's 1983-84 season by one victory. The Pistons showed an 18-game improvement from last year.

Cliff Robinson led the winners with 24 points. Stackhouse had 23 points, six rebounds and six assists. Chucky Atkins added 15 points and nine assists. Wallace had 20 rebounds and 10 points in 33 minutes, assuring himself the NBA rebounding title.

Cassell was in obvious pain with a sore big toe, and Ray Allen shot blanks with the season on the line. They scored six points each. Michael Redd led the Bucks with 21.

"You don't come into someone else's house and predict that you're going to win," Wallace said. "Of course it's going to get you fired up."

Cassell said he'd take out his anger on Atkins next season because of a comment Atkins made during the game.

"My toe is not going to always hurt, I've got plenty of basketball left and I'll run into Mr. Atkins again," Cassell said. "This is personal now."

Stackhouse was so excited at one point he raced to the court and lifted Jon Barry in the air as he headed toward the bench.

"It was easy to get up for this game," Stackhouse said. "We knew it was do-or-die for them, and at the same time they were standing in the way of one of the goals we set: 50 wins. That definitely brought a playoff atmosphere."

And here is another reminder of the Stack era.

http://www.nba.com/games/20020502/TORDET/boxscore.html

You know you suck when in the biggest game of your life you get outscored by Corliss, Jon Barry, Cliff Robinson, Chucky Atkins, Zelly, Ben Wallace and MICHAEL FUCKING CURRY!

You had to rain on Pharaoh's parade didn't you?

LMAO @ Hakeem on the Raptors and the Victor Alexander sighting.

I'm surprised that Stack didn't turn it over once, but not at Ben's 4-10 FTs.

A very solid game by Jon Barry & Corliss, as usual.

a healthy grant hill never would have missed the playoffs. garnett has missed them two years running.

grant hill > garnett.

and that second article was sad. i really miss the 'going to work' days. i would have loved that piston team no matter what city they played in. the new 'fat cat' pistons sure are hard to chear for. oh well, when the sell out streak ends this year, maybe pennypincher will get the message.

And here is another reminder of the Stack era.

http://www.nba.com/games/20020502/TORDET/boxscore.html

You know you suck when in the biggest game of your life you get outscored by Corliss, Jon Barry, Cliff Robinson, Chucky Atkins, Zelly, Ben Wallace and MICHAEL FUCKING CURRY!
Yeah, but 7 assists and (especially) 0 turnovers isn't part of a normal Stack boxscore. And at least we won...