Think about this Magloire is a big body 28 years old,already has been in a allstar game,grabs atleast 10 boards a game can play both PF and center.


Now Delfino for Magloire isnt that crazy of a idea! I know I havent crunched the numbers, But if it was a option for the PISTIONS do we make the deal?

NAZAR/MAGLOIRE???
SHEED/DICE
PRINCE/DUPREE
RIP/MURRY
BIGSHOT/HUNTER

THEN we shop DD like crazy to pick up another scorer/SF/ COMBO GAURD!!


Tell me we wouldn't be back to the finals with that TEAM! MAGLORIE BABY!

The numbers could never match up, with any combination of our reserves alone, so it would have to be Dice or a starter.

Magloire makes 8.3 which means the minimum salary we could trade to get him is 6.2 million. So it would be hard, now of course if the Bucks want to use Bogut purely at C maybe you could hard sell them on Dice being the starting PF. However you then are left with 3 C's no tested PF and lose our best reserve in one trade. Plus Looking Magloires numbers they project fairly close to Nazr's, so I am not sure that is an upgrade in truth.

Listen why not LIKE DELFINO AND A PICK OR DELFINO AND CASH OR DELFINO AND DD AND CASH! Why get so fatal? Give me a friggen break! Atleast its better than that SCRUB DUPREE that JOE picked up because he knows the friggen system! DAMN DAMN DAMN I hate that. GRAB A SHITTY no-one WANTS player like DUPREE BECAUSE HE KNOWS THE "SYSTEM" GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS joe-d AND GO GET SOME talent!

Damn their alot of cheaper TALENT we could of atleast looked at instead of DUPRISS!

kEITH VAN HORN
TONY KOKUC
SCOTT PADGET


Just to name a few that we diffent look at!

I'd much rather have Magloire than Nazr. He's bigger and longer, less of a stone-handed foul machine, and a year younger. But there's no way that we keep him unless he came to terms with a reasonable contract extension.

Magloire?

Isn't he an $8 mil per year poor man's version of a younger Elden Campbell?

I'll tell you what. If you can show me footage - any footage in his career - where it looked like he cared if his team won or lost or gave any effort even for a minute, or accomplished something on effort instead of height, and I'll agree we should sign him.

Lazy ass, weak minded, boring, slow, doesn't care, not a winner, has no intensity, steals paychecks, etc. etc. etc.

Fuck that guy.

What is with you people lately?

First, riding Nazr's sack like he HASN'T lost his starting job on teams with NO BIG MEN throughout his entire career.

Now, you guys want Elden Campbell Light, and you want to pay him $8 mil per year?

I know we lost a big man in Ben, but what happened to your standards?

I'd rather have that guy, what's his name... Cap Space... on my team than pay $8 mil for that bum Magloire.

Shit, 99% of the teams in the NBA need a center so bad they can taste it, and most of those teams have already given away Magloire and Nazr for nothing in the past, when they had no backups for them, and were the shortest teams in the league (see Nazr in NYK - a team with no big man dumps him, then he goes to SA and loses his starting job to Rasho!!!).

Doesn't that tell you people something?

Who is next?

I'm waiting for the Pistons to re-hire Billy McKinney, so he can bring back Big Ben Coleman.

Or maybe we can get Jim MCilvane?

Or Ervin (not Magic) Johnson?

Or how about Wang Zhi Zhi? Maybe we can give him $8 mil per year?

No? How about Scott Hastings? I think he's a broadcaster in Denver.

Sorry, WHYT. Nothing personal. I just HATE Magloire and guys like him that have the size but not the heart, but still make gazillions.

Prediction: Taymelo will be a Nazr fan by mid-season

Glenn:

I hope so.

Please, Nazr, prove me wrong.

Show me you were better than NO big man for the Knicks, and better than Rasho for the Spurs.

I'm holding onto hope that his excuse about his son being born, missing training camp, and that being the reason he lost his starting job to Rasho is true.

Haha the post above Glenn is too funny[smilie=rofl.gif]

Everyone is saying this bullshit about how Magliore is an all-star. Honestly stick with Nazr and sheed at the 5 position and try to get someone who's worth more to our team than Magliore.

We don't need to trade our 2 biggest trading pieces for a fucking twig

I'm hoping that he (Nazr) is better than he has been as well, he has shown signs of brilliance in the past, so I'm not sure what factors led him to fall out of favor in the other places that he has been.

He certainly fits that "castoff" mold that Joe used when building the championship team (Billups/Ben/etc.)

As for Magliore, slow as molasses, seriously overpaid, and as Tay said, reeks of disinterest when he's on the floor.

And there is no way that he's 6'11".

Magloire is a free agent after the next season too, so he wants to get payed for his lazy efforts too...we re fine at Center with Nazr, Sheed and some DD...backup PG is what worries me...

Magloire is inconsistent and his offensive ability is horrible. The one thing he does really well is rebounding, and that' not going to put us over the top. And it really doesn't outweigh the negatives he'd bring (bad shooting, bad ball handling, mediocre D on his best day, no heart). He's no answer.

RE: MAGLOIRE THE ANSWER??

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos2/2002-05-07-iverson2.jpg
We talkin' 'bout Magloire as "The Answer"? "The Answer"? Whatta we talkin' 'bout? Magloire? We talkin' 'bout Magloire as "The Answer", man!

damn it Glenn, I was going to post that!!![smilie=grumble.gif]

RE: MAGLOIRE THE ANSWER??

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos2/2002-05-07-iverson2.jpg
We talkin' 'bout Magloire as "The Answer"? "The Answer"? Whatta we talkin' 'bout? Magloire? We talkin' 'bout Magloire as "The Answer", man!
this is what i thought when i read the title.[smilie=blaha.gif] because he has a better shot of being iverson, than a piston

Damn, I guess it wasn't as clever as I thought it was if y'all were thinking the same thing.

If you haven't seen it in a while, it's worth the 2 minutes.

eGDBR2L5kzI

Part of it is -- I'm still trying to figure out where this "at best mediocre D" thing came from, or where Nazr Mohammed was a great defensive presence.

From an 82games.com angle, here's their "Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production" (oPER/48), which gives some idea of how well they'll match up against their man. 15 is "average", and lower is better for this particular stat. Since neither is a great help defender (where their contributions would make other teammates D look especially good), I think it's fairly reflective of what they can bring to the table. Note the consistentcy, across multiple teams and seasons:

In 2004, Mohammed's oPER/48 was 17.7 and Magloire's was 15.2.
In 2005, Mohammed's oPER/48 was 18.8 and Magloire's was 15.5.
In 2006, Mohammed's oPER/48 was 19.0 and Magloire's was 14.5.

they both are gay. i feel like we arguing about otis thorpe vs orlando woolridge as replacements for the recently vanished bison dele in an alternate universe.

they both are gay. i feel like we arguing about otis thorpe vs orlando woolridge as replacements for the recently vanished bison dele in an alternate universe.
Fair enough. I'd much rather we'd have gone after Jackie Butler than either of these two, but I still think Mags is a better C than Nazr. Mags can at least stay on the court for more than a half, which isn't something I've seen from Nazr.

Mxy:

I think you're missing an important point. Mags is a few measly points better than Nazr by the "Hollingers" as I call them, but he commands twice the salary, if I'm not mistaken.

If you look at the stats you posted pound for pound and dollar for dollar in the world of salary caps and luxury taxes, Nazr's stats are far more impressive.

And beyond that, any team that would let Ben walk for a few million, but would then take on Mags $ > Nazr $, is cutting of their nose to spite their face. Might as well keep Ben, at that price.

Here Magloire is a supposed "all star" center in a league with no centers, and yet the Bucks can't give him away to any other team, at his current pay, and they had guys like Dan Gadzuric taking minutes from him.

There's a reason for that.

they both are gay. i feel like we arguing about otis thorpe vs orlando woolridge as replacements for the recently vanished bison dele in an alternate universe.
Fair enough. I'd much rather we'd have gone after Jackie Butler than either of these two, but I still think Mags is a better C than Nazr. Mags can at least stay on the court for more than a half, which isn't something I've seen from Nazr.
Well to be honest neither guy is a legit center IMO. PJ Brown was the center i felt in Fagloire's all stars days. Fagzr Mohamed is probally more of a true center. but not much more at all. but Fagzr is cheaper. that ends this convo being anymore that wild imagination. we just grabbed the cheapest average thing available. Lets toast to Dyess being our best option easy.

none of this debate matters because the bucks will want more than we can offer. plus we don't have the salaries to match for him.

i find it funny that some people think we can get decent players and give up only our 'leftovers'.

i find it funny that some people think we can get decent players and give up only our 'leftovers'.
dont worry. i'm sure the delfino and dupree for harrington trade ideas are coming. Joe D just got done saying this aint fantasy basketball.

I think you're missing an important point. Mags is a few measly points better than Nazr by the "Hollingers" as I call them, but he commands twice the salary, if I'm not mistaken.

If you look at the stats you posted pound for pound and dollar for dollar in the world of salary caps and luxury taxes, Nazr's stats are far more impressive.
Price/performance only matters when they can actually perform. The foul rate is the bitch here.

With Nazr's foul rate, AFAICT, he'll only be able to play about 20-odd mpg before he becomes a foul problem. So, we'll have to find someone else to cover the 20-25 other minutes, which means platooning at C which isn't usually cheap (and why I wish we'd gone for Butler). Between Davis and an option on Cato, we're safe to platoon at C this year, but not beyond that.

By contrast, Magloire can play 30-odd mpg before he becomes a foul problem, so we've only got 10-15 minutes at C to cover. That's a more manageable issue. My thinking is that since Magloire can play 50% more minutes than Nazr at roughly the same level of ability, he's worth roughly 50% more, and that is about what he's getting paid right now relative to Nazr.

The key words being "right now". The theory is that he'll want a big payday. That's why I said right at the start that it'd makes no sense to trade for him unless we all agree to pay reasonable money for him (and unless we can find Nazr a home, since Milwaukee doesn't need him). Nazr's only real value is a longer contract, and his foul rate hasn't improved so he's only good for a half.

I'm assuming we'll see a good bit of zone this year which will help hide Nazr's foulitis Mxy.

I think you're missing an important point. Mags is a few measly points better than Nazr by the "Hollingers" as I call them, but he commands twice the salary, if I'm not mistaken.

If you look at the stats you posted pound for pound and dollar for dollar in the world of salary caps and luxury taxes, Nazr's stats are far more impressive.
Price/performance only matters when they can actually perform. The foul rate is the bitch here.

With Nazr's foul rate, AFAICT, he'll only be able to play about 20-odd mpg before he becomes a foul problem. So, we'll have to find someone else to cover the 20-25 other minutes, which means platooning at C which isn't usually cheap (and why I wish we'd gone for Butler). Between Davis and an option on Cato, we're safe to platoon at C this year, but not beyond that.

By contrast, Magloire can play 30-odd mpg before he becomes a foul problem, so we've only got 10-15 minutes at C to cover. That's a more manageable issue. My thinking is that since Magloire can play 50% more minutes than Nazr at roughly the same level of ability, he's worth roughly 50% more, and that is about what he's getting paid right now relative to Nazr.

The key words being "right now". The theory is that he'll want a big payday. That's why I said right at the start that it'd makes no sense to trade for him unless we all agree to pay reasonable money for him (and unless we can find Nazr a home, since Milwaukee doesn't need him). Nazr's only real value is a longer contract, and his foul rate hasn't improved so he's only good for a half.

You've won this round.

But I'll be back, with nuclear weapons!

http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040913/images/nuclear.jpg

I'm hoping I'm wrong here, that Nazr surprises us with something good.

But, as a general rule, however long it takes for a rotation player to get to over 3.5 fouls/game is the limit on the # of minutes they can play. Beyond that, foul situations throttle playing effective minutes. If Nazr plays like he did for the Spurs over a couple seasons, he'll only be able to play roughly 23 mpg or so.

Part of it is -- I'm still trying to figure out where this "at best mediocre D" thing came from, or where Nazr Mohammed was a great defensive presence.

From an 82games.com angle, here's their "Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production" (oPER/48), which gives some idea of how well they'll match up against their man. 15 is "average", and lower is better for this particular stat. Since neither is a great help defender (where their contributions would make other teammates D look especially good), I think it's fairly reflective of what they can bring to the table. Note the consistentcy, across multiple teams and seasons:

In 2004, Mohammed's oPER/48 was 17.7 and Magloire's was 15.2.
In 2005, Mohammed's oPER/48 was 18.8 and Magloire's was 15.5.
In 2006, Mohammed's oPER/48 was 19.0 and Magloire's was 14.5.I'm still trying to figure out what post you're reading. I never said Nazr was a defensive presence. You certainly didn't read my post (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showpost.php?p=127752&postcount=13) claiming Nazr is one of the worst defensive centers in the league. And wow, Magloire managed to hold the lowest average PER on a team to 15 in a conference with 3 centers, and only 2 of them an offensive threat. Somebody call Ben Wallace and get 2 or 3 of his awards back. You might want to read my posts a little more thoroughly before you fire up your 82games engine.

EDIT: Just did some Hollingering. I took the top 16 "centers" in the Eastern Conference (in terms of MPG) and averaged their PER (not per/48). It came to 15.9. Magloire's opponents averaged 15.4. We know his team defense isn't anything to brag about, and his one-on-one is slighty better than average (at least this year). Basically, he's not a top 10 defensive center, probably not even a 20.

Listen why not LIKE DELFINO AND A PICK OR DELFINO AND CASH OR DELFINO AND DD AND CASH! Why get so fatal? Give me a friggen break! Atleast its better than that SCRUB DUPREE that JOE picked up because he knows the friggen system! DAMN DAMN DAMN I hate that. GRAB A SHITTY no-one WANTS player like DUPREE BECAUSE HE KNOWS THE "SYSTEM" GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS joe-d AND GO GET SOME talent!

Damn their alot of cheaper TALENT we could of atleast looked at instead of DUPRISS!

kEITH VAN HORN
TONY KOKUC
SCOTT PADGET


Just to name a few that we diffent look at!


I know you are new here, and I apologize that my pet project is not yet ready so that could you have a visual for my explanation but I was not slamming the door on the possibility of a trade because I don't like it. I was merely offering up the fact that Under the TERMS OF THE CBA which governs all trades there is not a feasible trade. Jamal makes 8.3 million so we need to give the Bucks 6.2 million in salary in some form back. Take for your example DD and Delfino that is a total of 4.5 million, if we send the 3 million in cash (max allowed) all it does is pay for DD but it isn't used in closing the gap between the 4.5 and the 6.2 we need. Now we have a TE but is only 1.5 so we are still 200k short. Another problem is you can't use the TE for up to 125% it is only worth 1.5 in a trade so really the gap is 500k we still need to close. Meaning we would need a third minimum player to be included for the deal to work to get to theminimum salary required. Now If you want the deal to go down before the season it can't be a S&T contract (Acker. Delk, Cato) so it would have to be Johnson since no one else is signed to a minimum deal. So that mean we are giving up Amir, Delfino and DD from a fairly weak and not deep bench to get back a piece that is likely very over-rated and under productive and will leave after the season.

I'm still trying to figure out what post you're reading. I never said Nazr was a defensive presence. You certainly didn't read my post (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showpost.php?p=127752&postcount=13) claiming Nazr is one of the worst defensive centers in the league. And wow, Magloire managed to hold the lowest average PER on a team to 15 in a conference with 3 centers, and only 2 of them an offensive threat. Somebody call Ben Wallace and get 2 or 3 of his awards back. You might want to read my posts a little more thoroughly before you fire up your 82games engine.
I wasn't flaming you in particular or anyone in general. Here's a post in another thread where someone talks about Nazr's man-to-man D being a specialty:

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showpost.php?p=130434&postcount=32


EDIT: Just did some Hollingering. I took the top 16 "centers" in the Eastern Conference (in terms of MPG) and averaged their PER (not per/48). It came to 15.9. Magloire's opponents averaged 15.4. We know his team defense isn't anything to brag about, and his one-on-one is slighty better than average (at least this year). Basically, he's not a top 10 defensive center, probably not even a 20.
He can provide better D than Nazr for more minutes, then. My point is that Nazr is fundamentally a backup C, and should be making about the kind of money that Butler or Elson is making -- $3-4 million/year or so. Instead, we've plonked the full MLE on him, and we will still likely have a hole at C just in terms of filling the minutes, let alone overall performance per minute.

<sigh>

<sigh>


I agree with Mxy.

I think <sigh> is the appropriate response to this offseason, and in fact any/all moves Joe D has made in the past two years, with the exception of Dice.

Here Magloire is a supposed "all star" center in a league with no centers, and yet the Bucks can't give him away to any other team, at his current pay, and they had guys like Dan Gadzuric taking minutes from him.

There's a reason for that.



Magloire update
Jamaal Magloire is still a member of the Bucks, but Harris said discussions were continuing about a possible trade involving the 6-11 center.

Magloire was the Bucks' starter at center last season, and rookie 7-footer Andrew Bogut started at power forward. But Bogut will move to his natural position of center this fall, and Charlie Villanueva is expected to start at power forward after being acquired in the deal that sent guard T.J. Ford to Toronto.

"There are still a number of teams we're talking to," Harris said. "We have contacted two or three teams more than once at this point.

"I don't know that there's a resolution, but there are certainly more conversations going on over the last week. Now players are getting signed, free agency is dwindling down and everybody is looking at their rosters.

"As I look at it, the 1 (point guard), 3 (small forward) and 5 (center) are the positions where we can add some depth. Hopefully we can accomplish that with Magloire, if we do trade him."

So, he's an all star center in a league with no quality big men, yet he's been on the trading block for months, the Bucks can't give him away, and they are hoping to trade this all star center for a backup center, to provide "depth".

LMFAO.

Yeah.

I want Magloire on this team.

<sarcasm button off>

^um, we don't have a sarcasm button

I'd much rather try to get Dan Gadzuric from them. He at least plays hard and is younger and far more athletic. How about Delfino & Davis for Gadzuric?

it's hidden

Nazr>Maglore.

Nazr can't stay in the fucking game for over a half, and he's a better C.

Riiiggghhhttt...

Trust me, I don't want to think that Maglorie > Nazr. Maybe Nazr got screwed playing next to TD all the time. I dunno. But it's not promsing. If you can't stay in the game, you're not worth big bucks.

Taymelo, you're quoting Larry Harris, that brilliant mastermind who thinks Terry Stotts is an NBA coach, on Maglorie's worth. Take FWIW...

Nazr can't stay in the fucking game for over a half, and he's a better C.

Riiiggghhhttt...

Trust me, I don't want to think that Maglorie > Nazr. Maybe Nazr got screwed playing next to TD all the time. I dunno. But it's not promsing. If you can't stay in the game, you're not worth big bucks.

Taymelo, you're quoting Larry Harris, that brilliant mastermind who thinks Terry Stotts is an NBA coach, on Maglorie's worth. Take FWIW... Nazr didn't get to start because he's horrible at defense and was on the San Antonio Spurs. The Spurs weren't going to give a majority of their center minutes (the most important defensive position on a team) to one of the worst defensive centers in the league. Jamaal Magloire is not light years ahead of Nazr in defense, and they're not really comparable on offense.

Why does everyone think Nazr is one of the worst defensive centers in the league? You make it sound like the guy just stands there and lets his man score at will. He may not be the best at defense, but as far as I can tell he's adequate. He's not the best, but he's not close to the worst.

If Magloire is the answer, what is the question?

Allen Iverson

lol

THIS THREAD IS O.W.N.E.D BY THE RHINO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BITCH!

Good for you, young one.

Bring some attitude to the forum.

Got nothing but praise for ya.

Why does everyone think Nazr is one of the worst defensive centers in the league? You make it sound like the guy just stands there and lets his man score at will. He may not be the best at defense, but as far as I can tell he's adequate. He's not the best, but he's not close to the worst. Clearly you must not watch him very often. He's pretty close to the worst. According to 82games, he's got the worst opponent production on the Spurs (22.7 - how many centers average over 20 PER in a game? I bet you could count them on one hand) and the worst in PER 48/min. Guys worse than him? Brezec. LaFrentz. Drobjnak. Not many.

Trade rumor Magloire to the Blazers

http://www.1080thefan.com/goout.asp?u=http://ian1080.blogspot.com/


Blazer trade winds blowing??
I vowed no Blazer talk for awhile, but when the people you trust around the NBA tell you something, and these people have been bang on right in the past (for example the trade deadline deal when we were the first on 1080 The Fan to tell you the Kings were involved and it was a four team deal) you have to pass it along, so here goes.

Potential trade being discussed: Portland sends Steve Blake, Brian Skinner, and Ha Seung-Jin to Milwaukee for Jamaal Magloire.

Will it happen? Maybe. Hard to say but I do know the discussions between the two teams have taken place. If it doesn't, there will be denials and spinning coming from One Center Court, but I will stand by this, the Bucks and Blazers have discussed this deal.

What does it mean? A lot. This is where it gets interesting. It could mean Paul Allen is back in the game so to speak, and will continue to own the team because one guess is they would try to re-sign Magloire, which PA needs to ok. Also, Blake is a "Nash guy" brought in by the former GM, and easy to get rid of since there is a logjam at the PG position. All of a sudden the Blazers are not as overwhelmed at the point guard position, and and have some quality depth in the frontcourt. That frontcourt depth is also very flexible with multiple players who can play the four or the five.

Stay tuned.......

HOLY SHIT!!!

PORTLAND NOW HAS THE ANSWER!!

To a pretty stupid question.

DIDDY The Question must not of been to DUMB, because it had u flapping your BLUE gums a bit![smilie=blaha.gif]

MAGLOIRE=CHAPIONSHIP

NO WHAT HE EQUALS IS A DOUBLE DOUBLE EACH AND EVERY NIGHT WHEN GIVEN THE MINUTES. YOU FOOLS JOKE AND LAUGH ABOUT HIM BUT I BET YOU HAVENT SEEN HIM PLAY MUCH! HE SHARED MINUTES LAST SEASON WITH THE BUCKS AND ALMOST AVERAGED A DOUBLE DOUBLE EVERY NIGHT! WICH IS BETTER THAN I CAN SAY FOR NAZAR OR FLIP OR DURPREE WHOM MOST OF YOU SACKS HAVE SEEM TO GIVE THE STAMP OF APPROVAL![smilie=banghead.gi:

Um, if I recall the majority of the board went fucking crazy when Nazr was signed with the full MLE.

Signing Murray with the BAE is fine IMO (at least he's cheap) and signing Dupree for the MINIMUM is fine as well.

I have no idea why you're so high on Magloire. IMO he's a waste of money.

It's cool you're a fan of his but calm the fuck down.

also, don't post in all caps. you ain't the original STACKMAN

I love whyt-RHINO. LOL

I bet he's the actual wrestler.

http://www.superaction.co.kr/TNA/wrestler_profileimg/rhino_main.jpg