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View Full Version : Eddie Johnson's take on Ben Wallace....



Kstat
07-13-2006, 11:57 PM
http://www.hoopshype.com/columns/wallace_johnson.htm

Wallace will struggle to reach lofty expectations
by Eddie Johnson / July 14, 2006

THE AUTHOR:
EDDIE JOHNSON

Ben Wallace was supposedly the free-agent catch of the summer. I beg to differ. Yes, he is a stud and his work ethic is a benefit for any team. But aren't we losing sight of something here? Since when do we anoint a player who can’t score, pass or shoot free throws savior status?

Just think about it. How many more blocks and rebounds will Wallace garner than what Tyson Chandler used to? And how many more victories will Wallace bring to the Bulls to justify ridding themselves of Chandler and paying Wallace $60 million?

The Bulls are getting Dennis Rodman... without the benefit of having Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen around.

If the Bulls think Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni are the equivalent of those two great players, then somebody better wake up soon in that organization and smell the coffee.

Those are very good young players, but they are not go-to players that will take the pressure off of Wallace having to contribute offensively – like Rodman didn’t have to for those great Chicago squads.

Wallace will be the highest-paid player on the team, but the fourth or fifth best in all-around skill categories.

How will that discrepancy sit with players like Hinrich and Gordon?

Ben Wallace will find out early how much Rasheed Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince meant to him and how they hid his deficiencies.

He was protected to the max in that lineup with the multitude of offensive players surrounding him. Now he has a young inconsistent team with a volatile coach in Scott Skiles to protect his weaknesses every night.

I know Pistons coach Flip Saunders can’t wait to see those weaknesses exploited, thus proving to everyone why he couldn’t play Wallace consistently against certain teams down the stretch of the season and during the playoffs.

Understand I am not a Wallace-basher. I think he is one of the hardest workers in the league, but there is a reason why... He has no choice. If Wallace didn’t work hard, he would be out the league.

He can’t shoot from outside three feet, he has no post moves, he is an adequate passer at best and he is a horrible free-throw shooter. Wallace's attributes are great weak-side defense and tenacious rebounding.

But understand this warning... If Tyrus Thomas can’t defend the ball in the post like Rasheed did in Detroit allowing Wallace to roam, then he will likely be inconsistent and stay in foul trouble – in the end, not paying the dividends they are expecting.

You have to wonder why the Pistons didn't do everything to keep Wallace. They obviously knew what they were doing when Larry Brown was allowed to leave Motown one year after winning a championship.

We saw first hand with Brown why the Pistons didn’t cry and you will see again next year why they still will not pout too much over Wallace leaving.

They know who their best interior player is and his name is Rasheed – not Ben. And although Antonio McDyess is not Ben Wallace, he is a capable defender and a much better scorer.

They also didn’t like the way Wallace was complaining about coaching strategy publicly. Wallace complained that the Pistons didn’t work hard enough on defense, but yet couldn’t Saunders complain that he didn’t work hard enough to improve his offense?

It seemed like the player whose weaknesses were being protected the most was turning on the very hand that put players around him to secure his cult status and put him in position to earn mega millions.

So now that the Bulls have invested $60 million in a player that needs more help around him than any player probably in the history of the league to justify his earnings. We will see how patient they are as an organization. And most importantly, we will see how patient those die-hard Bulls fans are now that they feel like they can contend with the best clubs in the Eastern Conference.

b-diddy
07-14-2006, 12:10 AM
random thoughts about article:

-if any one said this dumb shit about ben one year ago today we'd all call him a moron. everyone (i thought) knew there was more to ben wallace than stats.

-this guy is an idiot if he thinks ben is going to constantly be in foul trouble in chicago.

-rasheed wallace couldnt even be bothered to contend layups vs miami, but he somehow was the pistons best interior presence? its mind boggling to me that of the wallaces that get ripped on so much, and the one that is being accused of getting overpaid is ben. sheed sucked in the playoffs. he did little in the regular season, and he'll make what, 2 million less than ben next year? lol, i dont think we thought this one through.

-so what if this isnt the jordan bulls. this isnt the ben wallace pistons either. an alltime great team is not going to win the championship next year.

-i really cant see kirk heinrich speaking up about the disparity between his and ben's contract.

-ben is x10 the player chandler is. the difference is way more than a block and a few boards.

Kstat
07-14-2006, 12:15 AM
-if someone said ben wallace's offense would be so bad this year that he wouldn't be allowed ON THE FLOOR late in games, we'd have all laughed too.

-he called Rasheed Wallace the best post defender on the team, which he is. Ben's an average one-on-one defender at best. Of course, sheed is an average help-defender at best, so it evens out. Then again, Sheed can actually score the ball on occasion.

-Rasheed "did little last year?" Um, he was a freakin' all-star. 10 million for an all-star is the going rate.

-THe old Ben wallace was 10x the player chandler is. He might still be, but the difference isn't as big as it used to be.

b-diddy
07-14-2006, 12:30 AM
ben wallace is better than an "average one-on-one defender".

and his offense was horrible, maybe bad enough to justify keeping him off the floor. but the last coach that let it come to that was george irvine. sadly, flip probably has a lot more in common with irvine than he does with carlisle or brown.

Kstat
07-14-2006, 12:39 AM
I'm very comfortable in saying that Ben is an average one-on-one defender.

There's a very good reason why we've ALWAYS kept a very good post defender next to ben wallace, because that's where his defense gets exposed. Ben's a goalie, he's not a stopper.

Varsity
07-14-2006, 02:00 AM
I'm very comfortable in saying that Ben is an average one-on-one defender.

There's a very good reason why we've ALWAYS kept a very good post defender next to ben wallace, because that's where his defense gets exposed. Ben's a goalie, he's not a stopper.

Good comparison.

b-diddy
07-14-2006, 02:16 AM
we always try to keep a good post defender around ben because you can never have enough post defenders. we kept ben on the weaker player (usually) because ben is the best weakside defender (ever?). that doesnt mean hes also not a great post defender. near the end of games, it wasnt unusual for ben to switch to the duncans of the world.

ben is also a good perimeter defender. but as flip learned (after about 15x) is that if ben flashes to the perimeter, our paint becomes exposed, because sheed is NOT our premier interior defender. (replace all the present tense with past tense. its still going to take me a while to get used to ben not being a piston).

i'll probably spend the next few days thinking about "ben's a goalie, he's not a stopper". i think you may have stumped me on that one.

Fool
07-14-2006, 09:06 AM
Kstat = Tom Wilson.

Hermy
07-14-2006, 09:35 AM
Who's the greatest one-on-one post defender ever? Hakeem? Watch baby Shaq destroy him. Bill Russell? Wilt got all over him. Thruth is there is no such thing. Like bigfoot, never been seen. You're average or you're bad. You can deny the ball or you can't, after that its a crap shoot.

Pharaoh
07-14-2006, 10:20 AM
It's nice to read a ton of opinions on Ben's defection so I appreciate Kstat starting the thread.

I can do without another b-diddy v Kstat debate on the subject, so good luck guys. I'm out of here.

Comrade
07-14-2006, 10:37 AM
ben wallace is better than an "average one-on-one defender".

and his offense was horrible, maybe bad enough to justify keeping him off the floor. but the last coach that let it come to that was george irvine. sadly, flip probably has a lot more in common with irvine than he does with carlisle or brown. Ben is not better than average at one-on-one defense. A quick check at 82games shows an opposing center has an average PER of 17.4 this year - which is, in fact, the worst of any starter on the team. Ben's contributions show up more in everybody elses defense (especially the guards) then his own.

Kstat
07-14-2006, 01:56 PM
Who's the greatest one-on-one post defender ever? Hakeem? Watch baby Shaq destroy him.

LOL

Brush up on your history, Hermy....Hakeem destroyed Shaq in the 1995 finals.

Anthony
07-14-2006, 04:19 PM
whos eddie johnson?

Hermy
07-14-2006, 04:20 PM
Who's the greatest one-on-one post defender ever? Hakeem? Watch baby Shaq destroy him.

LOL

Brush up on your history, Hermy....Hakeem destroyed Shaq in the 1995 finals.


Duh.......Man on man defensively? Really? Appologize. Idiot. In fact, appologize for all your posts in one big post please. Just a blanket "I'm sorry" for everything you've said here should cover it. Maybe another for the futher poop you're going to spread around here in the future too.

Edit: Quick looks shows-O'Neal, averaged 28 points, 12.5 rebounds, 6.2 assists and shot 59.5 percent from the field for the series......all higher than his regular season and playoff stats. Looks like he ate up one of the greatest defenders in the history of the game.

Uncle Mxy
07-14-2006, 04:29 PM
Ben is not better than average at one-on-one defense. A quick check at 82games shows an opposing center has an average PER of 17.4 this year - which is, in fact, the worst of any starter on the team. Ben's contributions show up more in everybody elses defense (especially the guards) then his own.
Uhh... where'd you get 17.5?

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506DET.HTM

shows Ben with a 14.5. The worst of the starters was Rasheed at 16.5.

UberAlles
07-14-2006, 05:13 PM
Kstat = Tom Wilson.
Remember when Wilson took over the franchise after Daly/McCloskey? Thanks Kstat for Teal, Ron Rothstein, Don Chaney, losing Allan Houston, and the Dennis Rodman/Sean Elliott fiasco.

The only thing Kstat did right was bring Mahorn back home. Of course, it was to sell tickets for a game or two, but salesmen have no morals so we understand.

That's gotta be the laugh of the day. Bless you Fool.

UberAlles
07-14-2006, 05:20 PM
Ben is not better than average at one-on-one defense. A quick check at 82games shows an opposing center has an average PER of 17.4 this year - which is, in fact, the worst of any starter on the team. Ben's contributions show up more in everybody elses defense (especially the guards) then his own. Uhh... where'd you get 17.5?

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506DET.HTM

shows Ben with a 14.5. The worst of the starters was Rasheed at 16.5. The Politburo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politburo) has it's own numbers! Now return to watching Gosteleradio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraph_Agency_of_the_Soviet_Union), we are about to TELL you what to think about Ben Wallace!

Comrade
07-14-2006, 06:02 PM
Ben is not better than average at one-on-one defense. A quick check at 82games shows an opposing center has an average PER of 17.4 this year - which is, in fact, the worst of any starter on the team. Ben's contributions show up more in everybody elses defense (especially the guards) then his own. Uhh... where'd you get 17.5?

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506DET.HTM

shows Ben with a 14.5. The worst of the starters was Rasheed at 16.5. Uhh... http://www.82games.com/0506/05DET16C.HTM

I was looking for a position-by-position rating. It should also be pointed out that centers almost always have the lowest PER as a starter on a team.