I really like this move for the Spurs, wish it could have been us.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/butler_signs_spurs_7m_offer_knicks_marc_berman.htm


BUTLER SIGNS SPURS' $7M OFFER

By MARC BERMAN

July 13, 2006 -- In a shock to the Knicks, center Jackie Butler signed a staggering three-year, $7 million offer sheet with the Spurs on the first day of the free-agent signing period yesterday, according to sources.

The Knicks have seven days to match the offer but it's unlikely they will go that high. Isiah Thomas said through a spokesman that no decision has been made. The Knicks made Butler a $920,000 qualifying offer to keep him restricted. Butler is their third-string center, but is viewed as valuable in case Jerome James were to report out of shape. Butler, 21, showed potential in parts of two seasons with the Knicks as a low-post scorer.

The Spurs are desperate for a big man after losing their two centers - Nazr Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic. Thomas said Monday he expected it to be "a long summer" regarding Butler's situation.

"My summer just got a lot shorter," said agent Keith Glass, who is close friends with Larry Brown. "We're grateful the Knicks pulled him out of the CBA. They were obviously correct to do that. I think San Antonio is a great place for him. If the Knicks choose to match, it shows they wanted him as well."

"My summer just got a lot shorter," said agent Keith Glass, who is close friends with Larry Brown. "We're grateful the Knicks pulled him out of the CBA. They were obviously correct to do that. I think San Antonio is a great place for him. If the Knicks choose to match, it shows they wanted him as well."

I assume he is a relative of Joe Glass (LB's agent)? If so, looks like he intentionally put the screws to the NYK, wanna bet he let LB in on the ruse?

Wow.

A great pick up forthe Spurs, and honestly, I'd take 21 year old Butler over 29 year old Nazr.

I cant see the years but 7 mil per one is alot though. Guess they were that desperate.

*Think i got the ages right

3 years/$7m for Butler, Cross


Also...

http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/vaughn_signing_060712.html


Spurs Sign Jacque Vaughn

SAN ANTONIO – The San Antonio Spurs announced Wednesday that they have signed guard Jacque Vaughn. Per team policy terms of the deal were not disclosed.

The 6-1, 190-pound Vaughn averaged 3.4 points, 1.5 assists and 1.1 rebounds in 80 games for the New Jersey Nets last season. For his career, Vaughn has appeared in 608 games while averaging 4.8 points, 2.6 assists and 1.4 rebounds. In addition to New Jersey the nine-year veteran has also spent time with Utah, Atlanta and Orlando.

3 years for 7, what a fucking bargain[smilie=grumble.gif]

Thought the Spurs had Beno Udrih or something...

Knicks should match, even if it would basically be 3 yrs and $14 mil for them due to the tax.

Butler has a lot of potential and they aren't exactly well stocked with quality bigs.

This will be a clear indication of how much pull Thomas still has with Dolan IMO. If they match Zeke is still in the good books. If not, he's on the outside looking in already and better have a good season.

BTW, San Antonio also made an offer to Francisco Elson!

LMMFAO

They split their MLE between 2 young big men and might get both.

We blew our whole MLE on their former starter!

Beno Udrih is available "for the right package".

I don't really know much about him and I'm guessing the Spurs would want more than our Trade Exception and the Minny Second, so I didn't mention him.

I'd much rather have had Jackie Butler, because he can actually catch a ball.

I'd have tried to pull a S+T deal for Gadzuric, since he's even more in limbo with Charlie V on the scene.

You guys are missing the important part of the Spurs off-season: Vaughn. Is there a more worthless player in NBA history? (No Darko jokes). I really don't know what he brings to the table except for piss-poor shooting and even worse decision making ability.

didnt vaugn play pretty well against us in the orlando series (could be completely wrong here).

i dont think he's all that bad. and i'll go on record of saying i'd have given butler the mle before i gave nazr the mle. nice pick up by san an.

Butler > Nazr... I've said it from day 1. Butler was the first reasonably priced (MLE and under) big on my list. Spurs just got a steal if it goes through.

yup, smart move by spurs.

i was hoping we would give part of our MLE to him, maybe even the whole damn thing over 3 years if necessary. the kid has talent and is very young still.

i too would take him straight up over mohammed.

but mohammed can be solid for us, and let's hope he will be.

The thing which makes sense about San Antonio is that they buy cheap and sell expensive. It really is a lot like we USED to do. Butler will be a great pickup for them, and I think he will be a starter for them. A Cheap center with a decent low post game. There are NONE of those that aren't on their rookie contract.

Looks like the Knicks are going to let him walk. What a steal for the Spurs.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/434950p-366467c.html


Isiah now thinking Butler doesn't do it

BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Isiah Thomas is having second thoughts on matching the three-year, $7 million offer sheet Jackie Butler received from the San Antonio Spurs.
According to sources, Thomas is surprised that the center, who is entering his second season, managed to secure a contract that dwarfs the $900,000 the Knicks offered him. The same source said there is a "50-50 chance" that Butler won't return. Thomas has until Wednesday to match the offer.

The Knicks already have 14 players under contract, and Thomas is finding it hard to justify signing Butler for $7 million when he could be the team's third-string center behind Eddy Curry and Jerome James.

Thomas, however, has a soft spot for the 6-10 Butler, whom he signed out of the CBA two years ago on the advice of former scout Del Demps, who now works for the Spurs. There is a good chance that former Knicks coach Larry Brown gave his good friend, San Antonio head coach Gregg Popovich, a thorough scouting report on Butler.

The Knicks have had strange dealings with the Spurs in recent years. Three years ago, Thomas agreed to send Kurt Thomas to San Antonio for Malik Rose only to rescind the offer at the last minute.

The following season, Thomas sent Nazr Mohammed to the Spurs for Rose, and Mohammed helped San Antonio win the title. Now, Butler could be replacing Mohammed, who is now a Piston.

----------

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/curry_is_key_knicks_marc_berman.htm


The Jackie Butler saga can go either way, according to sources. The three-year, $7 million offer sheet Butler signed with the Spurs was a lot more than the Knicks were willing to pay. For the Knicks to match, it would cost $14 million, including luxury tax, for a third-string center. The Knicks have seven days to match and might take all the time.

Matching the offer would be an indictment on backup Jerome James. Matching also would give them the maximum 15 players and make it impossible to sign free-agent small forward Qyntel Woods, or another player. Thomas is considering Pete Miller, a jump-shooting big man who started yesterday, as a center option.

"We'll see what happens," Thomas said. "Next couple of days, look at our options, not in a hurry to make a decision. Jackie was a good player for us, but we have other good players here also."

We couldn't have signed Butler? le sigh.

San Antonio I think is consistently underrated as far as organizations and GMs go, imo they're easily tops, and are even better than us.

Joe completely fucked the off-season.

I've done some scenarios with the new cap numbers and I'm fucking pissed.

This signing by San Antonio just pisses me off even more.

They thought so much of Nazr that they let him walk and then split the MLE on 2 young bigs.

And what did Joe do? Used the entire MLE on Nazr!

And traded Mo Evans for a player we won't see for another 2 years, if ever!

Great! While you're at it let's lose Ben to Chicago.

Oh, that happened?

FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK KKKKK

Whoever looks after the cap shit in the front office should be fucking fired.

But we're not going to pay any luxury tax!!

[smilie=dance.gif]

Honestly, I think this thread is a bit overrated.

For me, it's not even about Butler being any good.

What San Antonio have done just illustrates how fucking stupid we were (or are) with our cap situation.

It drives home the point I was trying to make the other day about signing "under the radar" guys.

Honestly, I'm fine if we don't pay the tax. I understand that. Every team except New York is making moves to lessen the tax burden, so you can't blast Davidson for doing the same.

But being so fucking stupid with our cap situation is mind boggling.

Combined the MLE and BAE are worth $6,915,000

But if you can have that much cap space it's better for you, since you can divide it up as you need to, or sign ONE player with that amount and fill out your roster with minimum players (either veterans or young guys)

With the MLE you can divide it up, but if you have $1,000,000 left of it you can't add it to your BAE and sign a guy to a starting salary of $2,700,000.

It doesn't work that way.

Honestly, I think signing Nazr was a PR move more than a personnel move. To the casual Piston fan, they know him as the guy who played center for the team that beat us in the finals. If we brought in some random guy named Jackie Butler to play a big role for us, it would be worse from a PR point of view. Signing a guy that the casual fan may have heard of before helps keep those seats filled.

Oh, please - casual fans don't fucking know Nazr.

Some actual basketball fans don't know him.

PR move? Bullshit.

Oh, please - casual fans don't fucking know Nazr.

Some actual basketball fans don't know him.

PR move? Bullshit.

A ton more fans know who he is than Jackie Butler. Period. I don't see how you can even remotely try to argue that. Nazr was a starter against us in the NBA Finals. Jackie Butler is a CBA, undrafted guy who was buried on the bench of the worst team in the league the last 2 years. Nazr was the biggest name available for a price we could afford. That's all there is to it.

Oh, please - casual fans don't fucking know Nazr.

Some actual basketball fans don't know him.

PR move? Bullshit.
yeah you don't sign a guy like Nazr for PR. In fact I don't really think their were too many players this year that woulda been even considered PR moves. Or at least that wouldn't be insane for us to sign (Peja, Mike James, ..).

i completely thought nazr was damage control. not only did we lose ben, but we struck out on pryz. 3 seconds later we have nazr?

hes not a household name. but the freep can hype him. he's got decent numbers, plus he started on a championship team. the freep called him a poorman's ben wallace with offense the day we got him.

i completely thought nazr was damage control. not only did we lose ben, but we struck out on pryz. 3 seconds later we have nazr?

hes not a household name. but the freep can hype him. he's got decent numbers, plus he started on a championship team. the freep called him a poorman's ben wallace with offense the day we got him.

exactly. It was a move to save face more than it was to actually get the best possible fit/value.

Honestly, I think this thread is a bit overrated.
HAHAHAHHAH!!!

I'm not gonna claim that Butler or Francisco Elson are bigger names than Nazr.

I'm just saying that if this organisation think signing Nazr is gonna get them good PR from casual fans they're fucking nuts.

And he was not the best player we could afford.

We had options that were not explored AT ALL!

They rushed out and signed him within 24 hours of Ben going to the Bulls.

They freaked out and fucked up.

After Przy and Ben, he was the next best FA center on the market. I don't see the problem.

Kelvin Cato was about as good an option at C as Nazr, and we had his rights. Hell, between Rasheed and Dale Davis, Nazr is the 3rd best C on the team.

Kelvin Cato was about as good an option at C as Nazr, and we had his rights. Hell, between Rasheed and Dale Davis, Nazr is the 3rd best C on the team.

Quoted for idiocy.

If you think Nazr is a worse center than Rasheed (who isnt even a center), Dale and Cato, you're really driking the haterade.

Nazr is a better center than anybody we have. It isn't even remotely close. We have two power forwards, ONE of which can play some backup center, and Dale Davis.

We needed a center that could step in and start. Nazr was the last C on the market that could do that.

No Better than Cato, LMAO

If you think Nazr is a worse center than Rasheed (who isnt even a center), Dale and Cato, you're really driking the haterade.
Rasheed was starting at C for Portland the year we got him in mid-season, with Zach Randolph at PF. Was it his ideal position? Hell no. But he was decent on the court. I think we've overpaid for Nazr.


Nazr is a better center than anybody we have. It isn't even remotely close. We have two power forwards, ONE of which can play some backup center, and Dale Davis.

We needed a center that could step in and start. Nazr was the last C on the market that could do that.

No Better than Cato, LMAO
Nazr couldn't beat Rasho as starting C for the Spurs, who mostly need a C who's not a doofus since Tim Duncan plays loads of time at the 5. So I'm not at all sold on Nazr as a starter. In the very few times that Cato played, he did not seem like a total stiff, and that's all I'm expecting out of Nazr, and we wouldn't have had to pay Cato as much.

Rasheed was starting at C for Portland the year we got him in mid-season, with Zach Randolph at PF. Was it his ideal position? Hell no. But he was decent on the court. I think we've overpaid for Nazr.

Um, try small forward. Dale Davis was the center. Sheed never even sniffed the center spot.

Sheed does not have the bulk of half the power forwards in the NBA. If he played center, his body might last a month.




Nazr couldn't beat Rasho as starting C for the Spurs

Actually, in 2003 he did, and they won a championship. Let's not remember that little detail....


In the very few times that Cato played, he did not seem like a total stiff, and that's all I'm expecting out of Nazr, and we wouldn't have had to pay Cato as much.

Nazr's specialty is man-to-man defense (which he showed on the spurs) and offensive rebounding (which he showed on the knicks, when he played more).

Last year he added some offense to his game (something you'd only notice if you saw him play consistently) including a solid 5-foot jumper, a baby hook and a FT% near 80.

Watching him play, he's a lot better than his stats indicate. Poppovich platoons everybody, not just his centers. I'm not going to hold that against him.

Um, try small forward. Dale Davis was the center.
Dale lost his starting gig to Rasheed by the time we traded for him.




Nazr couldn't beat Rasho as starting C for the Spurs

Actually, in 2003 he did, and they won a championship. Let's not remember that little detail....
You meant 2005, and Nazr only started after Rasho got hurt. The Spurs won a championship and let Nazr start for awhile, but Rasho won back his starting gig ultimately.


Nazr's specialty is man-to-man defense (which he showed on the spurs) and offensive rebounding (which he showed on the knicks, when he played more).

Last year he added some offense to his game (something you'd only notice if you saw him play consistently) including a solid 5-foot jumper, a baby hook and a FT% near 80.
Which is why Pop didn't play him against Dallas.


Watching him play, he's a lot better than his stats indicate. Poppovich platoons everybody, not just his centers. I'm not going to hold that against him.
So why didn't the Spurs keep him?

You meant 2005, and Nazr only started after Rasho got hurt. The Spurs won a championship and let Nazr start for awhile, but Rasho won back his starting gig ultimately.


More like it was given to him. Rasho didn't exactly play well.




Which is why Pop didn't play him against Dallas.

Actually, yes.

They had no need to defend Dampier and Diop, so they went with offense in Rasho to spread the floor and play an offense-first game.

In retrospect, Poppovich probably wished he would have played Nazr and gotten some of those loose boards Rasho gave up.



So why didn't the Spurs keep him?

Because, being over the LT, they'd be paying $12 million a year for him if they matched our offer.

They offered him HALF the MLE, which meant they were willing to pay as much for him as we were in luxury tax penalties.

Trust me, the Spurs wish they still had Nazr. They just couldnt afford to keep him. Now they have Jackie Butler and Fabrecio Oberto as their only centers. Even our center status isn't that bad.

Rasho = Offense. [smilie=rofl.gif]

Rasho = Offense. [smilie=rofl.gif]

He's got range out to 18 feet.

He's no scorer, but he does spread the floor on pick-and-rolls.

Nazr's maximum range is 8-10 feet, and that's when he's feeling good. Normally his scoring range is 5 feet and in.

He's got range out to 18 feet.

He's no scorer, but he does spread the floor on pick-and-rolls.

Nazr's maximum range is 8-10 feet, and that's when he's feeling good. Normally his scoring range is 5 feet and in. Rasho was on my fantasy team. He picks up some rebounds and blocks on a good night and shoots a high %, but if you think he will give you more than 4-6 points, you are sadly mistaken.

http://www.82games.com/0506/05SAS15D.HTM

You'll notice the Spurs scored 3.7 points per 100 possessions with him OFF the court, but gave up an extra 6.4 pts per 100 on defense when he was sitting.

Rasho is a defensive center, and provides little to no offense. That's just the facts jack.

I don't think Rasho is any good either.

Despite what the stats say, they went to Rasho mostly because he had to be covered 15-18 feet from the basket, which spread the floor for duncan and parker.

I sure as hell didnt see him play much defense.

Well, he's a spur...... bastards.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA071906.203c608.html

Great offseason for the Spurs.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA072106.1C.BKNspurs.elson.18f4d87.html


Spurs find center in Elson after Nuggets fail to match

Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer

SALT LAKE CITY — Thursday came and went, leaving behind another 7-foot center and ending the Spurs' tense-yet-successful venture into restricted free agency.

After trading Rasho Nesterovic, watching Nazr Mohammed take more money — and, presumably, more minutes — from Detroit and a thanks-but-no-thanks from Alonzo Mourning, the Spurs filled their remaining lineup hole when Denver declined to match a two-year, $6 million offer to Francisco Elson.

Elson, 30, is the second center in as many days to join the Spurs. New York said Wednesday it wasn't keeping Jackie Butler, who received a three-year, $7 million contract from the Spurs.

The Spurs hope Elson and Butler, 21, can give them production at center at less than half the combined $12.5 million Mohammed and Nesterovic will make next season.

The third year of Butler's contract also is at the Spurs' option, so the team could conceivably have only Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili under contract after the 2007-08 season, allowing them significant salary-cap room to reshape the roster.

The Nuggets informed Elson's agent, Calvin Andrews, late Thursday afternoon they didn't plan to match the Spurs' offer unless an unexpected trade allowed the team to move another of its frontcourt players. When one didn't materialize, Denver simply allowed the 11:59 p.m. deadline to lapse.

The Nuggets re-signed forward/center Nene to a $60million contract Thursday and have $72 million invested in forward Kenyon Martin and another $42million in center Marcus Camby. Keeping Elson would have moved their payroll close to the luxury-tax threshold and likely ended their efforts to re-sign forward Reggie Evans.

The Spurs also front-loaded each year of Elson's contract, making a substantial percentage of it payable in one lump sum before the start of the season. Carmelo Anthony's contract extension, which doesn't begin until the 2007-08 season, is structured similarly.

Though Spurs coach Gregg Popovich doesn't guarantee minutes or roles, Elson appears to be the leading candidate to start next to Duncan, given his experience and size. The Spurs think Elson's ability to run the floor could allow him to play with their small lineup while Duncan rests.

Nesterovic and Mohammed were plodders, a large reason why both spent much of the Spurs' second-round playoff loss to Dallas on the bench.

In a January victory over the Spurs last season, Elson often beat Duncan and the rest of the Spurs' big men down the floor while totaling 13 points, six rebounds and two steals.

"When we played them he got a lot of layups because he can run," Bruce Bowen said. "That's something David (Robinson) used to do real well. Not to say he is Dave now, but he does have that running quality."

The Spurs don't have plans to put Elson's jersey next to Robinson's in the AT&T Center rafters anytime soon. Elson is an adequate shot-blocker and has a decent mid-range shot, which should help him fit in the Spurs' system. Neither skill, however, is in Robinson's class. Scouts also don't like his hands and say he sometimes is slow to react.

Elson played in 72 games last season. The Nuggets went 32-22 in the 54 he started. He averaged 5.6 points and 5.4 rebounds in 24.7 minutes as a starter.

Born in The Netherlands, Elson attended Kilgore Junior College in Texas before transferring to the University of California, where he was a teammate of former Spurs forward Sean Marks. (Marks, who spent three seasons with the Spurs, is expected to sign with Phoenix.)

The Nuggets drafted Elson in the second round in 1999, but he played four years in Spain before joining them.

"I think Francisco will fit well with us," Bowen said. "The thing about the Spurs is we don't ask a lot of our bigs other than to just go out and give their best effort. He will be able to do that."

The burden on the Spurs' centers will be lessened with Duncan expected to average 15-plus minutes at the position. Fabricio Oberto also will have a better opportunity next season to carve out minutes for himself.

The Spurs hope Butler progresses enough to provide some muscle at the position. But they also concede they might miss Nesterovic's defense, forcing them to double-team Houston's Yao Ming more often.

The addition of Elson gives the Spurs 14 players with guaranteed contracts. Guard Melvin Sanders and forwards Rich Melzer and Jamar Smith, each of whom has a non-guaranteed deal, could compete for the final roster spot in training camp.

So the Spurs basically got Butler and Elson over Nazr and Rasho? That's a reasonable upgrade and much younger and hell they split the MLE for both.


The Spurs hope Elson and Butler, 21, can give them production at center at less than half the combined $12.5 million Mohammed and Nesterovic will make next season.


Wow, what a bargain.

Would Pistons fan nation have been happy to have Elson and Butler instead of Nazr?

Hell BYAAAAAA!!!

cause both put up some nice numbers for their teams? Elson played well as starting center when Camby was injured...and Butler was the best Knicks bigman, showed some talent...Nazr got benched in favor of Rasho :/

why do the Spurs allways get cheap roleplayers? and why do we allways have to overspend on ours? like Soup, Dale...now Lindsey...mull MLE for Nazr aint so hot either...i'd would have liked to get Banks and one of the Butler/Elson insteat for cheap...

First of all, Denver's management is retarded and New York management is New York management. Elson is a decent player for 15 minutes a game.

I think the Spurs are your early favorites to win it all. Unspectacular signings, but important ones. There are going to be games that Duncan may only need to play 20 minutes in for wins, and Jacque Vaughn is that prototypical 3rd PG SA has as insurance. Vaughn is relatively fresh too. Coupled with Oberto and Big Shot Rob, the SA frontcourt is dangerous and they're poised for another title run.

Quote from Marc Stein's most recent blog. Makes me feel great about what we did with our midlevel exception. [smilie=grumble.gif]mbgrgmvbemrbm[smilie=grumble.gif]

Marc Stein: What? I thought the Spurs had a quietly HUGE week last week. I'd much rather have Elson and Butler splitting $5 mil than spending it all on Mohammed, who was facing a long road out of Pop's doghouse. I'm betting on the Spurs, at worst, to make a player out of one of the new bigs.