-It's pretty much all about the money. He doesn't want to say it, but it's true. Ben believed he was worth $15 million per year and felt $12 million was a slap in the face.

-He thinks Ben's trade value will be nothing in 2 years with his contract, and he'll be untradable.

-Chauncey will be offered more money than Ben because he's younger and won't be on the decline. It's possible he'll leave but not likely. Chauncey and Dumars have an excellent working relationship.

-Pistons will NOT dismantle the team just because Ben left.

-Przybilla was getting nervous about the pressure of filling Ben Wallace's shoes. Joe didn't like that and signed Nazr instead.

-Pistons will give Maxiell and Delfino a lot more time than last year. Amir not as much.

-The team will look to get out and run a lot more next year.

-Darko quit on the team, and that wouldn't have changed if they kept him.

-Rip and Tay are going to be the top two scoring options next season, with Chauncey continuing to pick his spots like last year.

No way Tay is the #2 option. Chauncey is going to chuck like crazy next year if we run.

You're confusing him with Rob Parker.

McCosky used to KILL Joe Dumars in the press..Dumars actually won't even speak to him anymore.

McCosky may be an idiot, but to call him "bought and paid for" is just silly. Apparently any reporter who has anything positive to say about anyone in the organization is "paid off".....

McCoskey is the definition of "bought and paid for by the home team". I have zero doubt he's on the Piston payroll...

Thanks for the report nontheless.

Chauncey will be a whopping one year younger than Ben when he's looking for his contract next season. Of course I understand that Ben's games is based almost soley on his freakish athleticism whereas Chauncey's shooting ability can keep him in the league even when he begins slowing down.
...and you would be correct...It is a shame that the flagship station for the Pistons has the WORST of the beat writers. ASB is the man to talk to about that team...

Max might START the season seeing more clock than AMIR but I would be shocked if Amir doesnt have his spot by Christmas. Unless Amir losses his desire and stops trying.

You're confusing him with Rob Parker.

McCosky used to KILL Joe Dumars in the press..Dumars actually won't even speak to him anymore.

McCosky may be an idiot, but to call him "bought and paid for" is just silly. Apparently any reporter who has anything positive to say about anyone in the organization is "paid off".....
Ya know what...it is actually true that Parker is "BOUGHT AND PAID FOR" by Joe D...I am sure you guys know about the little loan from Dumars to Parkers back pocket...

I am assuming that he will stay the course he was on and smash Max like I saw him do over and over again this season. Max is solid...I just see a lot more in Amir.

-Chauncey will be offered more money than Ben because he's younger and won't be on the decline. It's possible he'll leave but not likely. Chauncey and Dumars have an excellent working relationship.

-The team will look to get out and run a lot more next year.


These 2 contradict each other. We will NEVER be a good running team with Chauncey running the point. NEVER.

-Chauncey will be offered more money than Ben because he's younger and won't be on the decline. It's possible he'll leave but not likely. Chauncey and Dumars have an excellent working relationship.

-The team will look to get out and run a lot more next year.

These 2 contradict each other. We will NEVER be a good running team with Chauncey running the point. NEVER.

i disagree that we can't be a good running team w/ Chauncey. we've been a mediocre fast break team because we lacked a wing player who attacks the rim, imo. our wing players are Rip who would much rather pull up for the jumper and Tayshaun who seemed to fall in love w/ that as well.

what makes you say that?

i disagree that we can't be a good running team w/ Chauncey. we've been a mediocre fast break team because we lacked a wing player who attacks the rim, imo. our wing players are Rip who would much rather pull up for the jumper and Tayshaun who seemed to fall in love w/ that as well.

what makes you say that?

I don't buy it. Rip is quick and can finish at the rim and Tayshaun is a very good transition player. What is missing is the point guard to push the ball. He always takes the ball from one of the bigs, and waits for everyone to get by him before advancing the ball. He's not quick enough to be a fast break guy. Plus with Ben Wallace out from behind him his D is going to be absolutely exposed.

I believe chauncey took less shots last year in the up-tempo game than he did the two previous years ina halfcourt offense.

People forget he was top-5 in assists last season.

i disagree that we can't be a good running team w/ Chauncey. we've been a mediocre fast break team because we lacked a wing player who attacks the rim, imo. our wing players are Rip who would much rather pull up for the jumper and Tayshaun who seemed to fall in love w/ that as well.

what makes you say that?
I don't by it. Rip is quick and can finish at the rim and Tayshaun is a very good transition player. What is missing is the point guard to push the ball. He always takes the ball from one of the bigs, and waits for everyone to get by him before advancing the ball. He's not quick enough to be a fast break guy. Plus with Ben Wallace out from behind him his D is going to be absolutely exposed.
am i the only one who remembers a TON of fastbreaks that ended up in pull-up jumpers, instead of attacking the rim? IMO, the fast breaks are there, but we're not attacking the rim to finish.

any PG who can dribble the ball can push the ball upcourt and run. it takes wings who can finish to make the fastbreak work.

I'm with you all the way on that one matt.

Matt, I think that is what appeals to me about Baron Davis, I've never been much of a fan, but he's a PG that can get into the paint, and more importantly, finish.

But could we get him? I dunno.

Holy shit De ja Vue.

Chauncey can be that guy. Hes built big like Davis, and he can get to the rack. But like Matt said, a lot of times in this offense it ends up as a jump shot instead of a layup.

Matt, I think that is what appeals to me about Baron Davis, I've never been much of a fan, but he's a PG that can get into the paint, and more importantly, finish.

But could we get him? I dunno.

i agree that he's that type of player (i'm sure we all remember the game winning dunk he had over Sura), but man, he hasn't played a full season in like 5 years.

Chauncey Billups + Fast Break Opportunity = Brain Cramp.

Watch some tape.

I think Golden State would trade him for NOTHING if they could.

Chauncey Billups + Fast Break Opportunity = Brain Cramp.

Watch some tape.

You shouldnt be playing PG if you cant run a fast break. Your mind has to be made up by the time you reached the FT line. Thats why LB wouldnt let Billups run a break. And it dosnt help when everyone isnt running hard, waiting to get the ball for a pull up. Or when they're all on the same side of the court.

McCoskey isn't bought and paid for. That is the problem. He is working like a mother to get back into good graces with the Pistons front office.

ASB is overrated as well. Keith Langlois at The Oakland Press is an intelligent columnist who gives the straight dope from an original angle. Beat writers are generally mouthpieces, ASB included.

so, who are the good "fast break" PGs in the NBA, outside of Kidd and Nash?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/bycategory?cat=Fielding&sort=27

probably those w/ great wing players running along side them.

anyways, all i think we need is to run at opportune moments in the game. last season, unfortunately, SO MANY of those moments were ruined when Tayshaun would pull up at the corner or Rip would shoot a running 10 footer. give Chauncey a guy like Iguodala, Marion, or Vince running the wings for alleyoops, and i'm sure we'd all be saying he was a great fast break PG.

You shouldnt be playing PG if you cant run a fast break. Your mind has to be made up by the time you reached the FT line. Thats why LB wouldnt let Billups run a break. And it dosnt help when everyone isnt running hard, waiting to get the ball for a pull up. Or when they're all on the same side of the court.
CB on the break is a running joke in a game chat I participate in.

We all go, "another blown fastbreak" in unison. Pretty funny when 7 people write it simultaneously.

@Matt - Tayshaun doesn't finish at the rim? Tay is the swooping, one-handed, angel of death on a fast break dunkathon.

@Matt - Tayshaun doesn't finish at the rim? Tay is the swooping, one-handed, angel of death on a fast break dunkathon.
i must have selective memory then, because i really do remember lots of 2v1's or 3v1's that ended up in a jump shot instead of a dunk.....and pounding my head against the table, thereafter.

so, who are the good "fast break" PGs in the NBA, outside of Kidd and Nash?
Chris Paul. Baron Davis. Tony Parker. Jason Terry.


anyways, all i think we need is to run at opportune moments in the game. last season, unfortunately, SO MANY of those moments were ruined when Tayshaun would pull up at the corner or Rip would shoot a running 10 footer. give Chauncey a guy like Iguodala, Marion, or Vince running the wings for alleyoops, and i'm sure we'd all be saying he was a great fast break PG.
Players pull up when they know the PG is gunna launch a three or the chemistry is bad. Chauncey is a stud in a system. Make him think and you are foobar'd.

CB's greatest asset is shooting.
CB's greatest weakness is shooting.

I think CB is a Top 5 PG, but if you look at what Kidd does on the boards, and what % Nash shoots, it's laughable to consider the guy the best PG in the game.

Baron Davis sucks, plain and simple. When he can't run, he's pathetic.

He's also 4X the ballhog chauncey will ever be.

white chocalate is one of the alltime great fast break point guards. seriously.

and prior to the offseason, our fast break offense was great. chauncy was great. the postseason the fast break fell apart, with a ton of the pull up jumpers matt keeps bringing up. especially by rip.

so, who are the good "fast break" PGs in the NBA, outside of Kidd and Nash? Chris Paul. Baron Davis. Tony Parker. Jason Terry.

Chris Paul = Desmond Mason, JR Smith
Baron Davis = Jason Richardson
Tony Parker = Manu Ginobili and TP's quick enough to finish himself (we all know he lead the league in FG's in teh paint)
Jason Terry = the whole damn team (josh howard, stack, daniels, etc)

Chauncey Billup = ?

sometimes tayshaun prince. that's who he's looking for on the wing and Tay's fallen in love w/ that pull up J. i do think Tay was more aggresive in the playoffs, though.

i am a little encouraged by that Dime article about Rip that talked about him looking to be more of an attacker ala AI and Arenas. no one really thought he could be a three pt shooter and he proved 'em wrong.

i disagree that we can't be a good running team w/ Chauncey. we've been a mediocre fast break team because we lacked a wing player who attacks the rim, imo. our wing players are Rip who would much rather pull up for the jumper and Tayshaun who seemed to fall in love w/ that as well.

what makes you say that?

I don't by it. Rip is quick and can finish at the rim and Tayshaun is a very good transition player. What is missing is the point guard to push the ball. He always takes the ball from one of the bigs, and waits for everyone to get by him before advancing the ball. He's not quick enough to be a fast break guy. Plus with Ben Wallace out from behind him his D is going to be absolutely exposed.

What's to "buy"? Whether Rip is quick means nothing...on a fast break he's pulling up for that jumper 8 out 10 times....and you've personally watched him do it for 2 yrs. Tay will finish at the rack, but I can understand what Matt is saying, he's starting to pull up a bit too much as well. Chauncey may not be the ideal break guy, but if were Steve Nash, Rip and Tay would continue to play the same game. Also, with Ben out, I think you'll see everyone except for Sheed exposed, not just Chauncey.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Rip can and will finish at the hoop. Tay can and will finish at the hoop. If you're looking for the fast break bomber, it's Mr. Big Head.

Rip isn't anything remotely similiar to a "finisher."

Has he had one dunk in traffic his entire career?

2-foot floaters are about as accurate as a layup from Rip, anyway. I've seen him miss more layups than short jumpers.

Rip isn't anything remotely similiar to a "finisher."

Has he had one dunk in traffic his entire career?

2-foot floaters are about as accurate as a layup from Rip, anyway. I've seen him miss more layups than short jumpers.
i think they were talking about fastbreaks only and comparing billups options to kidd's and nash's options on the fast break. dunk in traffic might be asking too much. but finishing on breaks isnt IMO.

am i the only one who remembers a TON of fastbreaks that ended up in pull-up jumpers, instead of attacking the rim? IMO, the fast breaks are there, but we're not attacking the rim to finish.


They ended up in jumpers because the break was too slow. The defenders were in position already 95% of the time. Most of our good break opportunities were on long passes from Ben/Sheed straight to the wing players.


any PG who can dribble the ball can push the ball upcourt and run. it takes wings who can finish to make the fastbreak work.

No... Chauncey just isn't fast enough. You never see him put so much speed on a defender that he just forces them to back out of bounds. Watch Tony Parker, Devin Harris, Jason Terry, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, etc. All of them can just put on the jets and blow by a defender one-on-one. Chauncey just holds up and waits for teammates in that situation.

It also doesn't help that Chauncey is a horrible finisher at the rim (yes, horrible). Contact doesn't hurt him much, but he doesn't even use the glass on layups. How many fast-break or semi FB layups do we seem him blow? Plenty.

That's not to see he's not a very good player, but if we're looking to run, we're looking in the wrong place with Chauncey. He's easily at his best on a grind it out team.

He was pretty darn good last year, and we were hardly a grind-it-out team.

Rip isn't anything remotely similiar to a "finisher."

Has he had one dunk in traffic his entire career?

2-foot floaters are about as accurate as a layup from Rip, anyway. I've seen him miss more layups than short jumpers.
"Finishing" and "Dunking" are 2 different things. Tony Parker is not a dunker and he's easily one of the best finishers in the league at the rim.

And Rip is no where near as bad as Chauncey is at finishing layups under some pressure. He's actually become quite solid at it.

well, no one's changing their mind here......we're all seeing different things, lol :D no one (i don't think) has numbers to back up any claims. just their emotions whenever they get pissed at watching a botched play.

FP22, when you're talking about speed, i really don't think it's a prerequisite for a good fast break PG. i know it sounds counter-intuitive...but look at Magic back in the day. he wasn't the fastest guy on the court, but he always had Worthy streaking along side him for the dunk.

like i said, Chauncey isn't going to be on the same tier as Nash, Kidd, or maybe even Parker anyways. but, all those PG mentioned above have dunkers (for lack of a better term) and Chauncey only has one in Tayshaun who, in my eyes, has fallen in love w/ the fast-break-pull-up-jumper a little too much.

He was pretty darn good last year, and we were hardly a grind-it-out team.

Look at our Possessions per game. We were 2nd or 3rd lowest in the league. Right near Memphis and Portland.

like i said, Chauncey isn't going on the same tier as Nash, Kidd, or maybe even Parker anyways. but all those PG mentioned above have dunkers (for lack of a better term) and Chauncey only has one in Tayshaun who, in my eyes, has fallen in love w/ the fast-break-pull-up-jumper a little too much.

Don't tell me Manu and Bruce Bowen are better "dunkers" than Rip and Tayshaun. Bowen doesn't dunk and Manu is solid but about equal to Tayshaun, if that. Parker is great on the break because he has the speed and he can finish. Two key components that Chauncey doesn't have.

Oh, and the "pull-up-jumper" is Flip's specialty. He has always advocated going for pull-up 18 footers instead of trying to force it inside. I hate it as much as anyone, but it's just one of the many reasons I dislike Flipper.

He was pretty darn good last year, and we were hardly a grind-it-out team.
Look at our Possessions per game. We were 2nd or 3rd lowest in the league. Right near Memphis and Portland.

FWIW, the Dallas Mavs only had one possession per game more than the Pistons. Nets only had two. i don't think anyone's calling the Mavs or Nets a "grind it out" team.

Nets (88.3), Mavs (87.6), Pistons (86.3),

FWIW, the Dallas Mavs only had one possession per game more than the Pistons. Nets only had two. i don't think anyone's calling the Mavs or Nets a "grind it out" team.

Nets (88.3), Mavs (87.6), Pistons (86.3),
Matt, 2 out of 3 ain't bad. STATS DON'T LIE!

like i said, Chauncey isn't going on the same tier as Nash, Kidd, or maybe even Parker anyways. but all those PG mentioned above have dunkers (for lack of a better term) and Chauncey only has one in Tayshaun who, in my eyes, has fallen in love w/ the fast-break-pull-up-jumper a little too much.
Don't tell me Manu and Bruce Bowen are better "dunkers" than Rip and Tayshaun. Bowen doesn't dunk and Manu is solid but about equal to Tayshaun, if that. Parker is great on the break because he has the speed and he can finish. Two key components that Chauncey doesn't have.
i fully admit that Chauncey isn't on the same tier as the PGs i mentioned earlier. TP's ability to get to the rack is arguably the best in the entire NBA.
but all the other PGs mentioned.....i see them as having better finishers & dunkers compared to Tayshaun.

basically, i'm saying if Chauncey had running mates who attacked the glass on the break like desmond mason, jason richardson, etc, etc.......i don't think anyone would think of him as a "poor" fast break PG.

I think the problem arises in what time frame people are judging. Without a doubt the Pistons were terrible on the break under Carlisle and Brown. I'm sure it was never practiced and hell Carlisle might have even frowned on it. They were better last year (particularly in the first half of the year, as pointed out earlier). The problem is definately Billups, he doesn't force the defense enough (IMO) and the wing players are very confident in their jumpers so that probably doesn't help things. Rip and Tay are plenty good at finishing (and finishing on the break isn't all that hard to begin with, especially with a good set-up man).

finishing on the break isn't all that hard to begin with, especially with a good set-up man [smilie=great.gif]

Allow me to add that the reason why guys will spot up on the break is because it is not being run fast enough, and by creating space they allow the ballhandler room to drive and finish/dish. Unless your ballhandler sizes up a trey bomb at halfcourt, that usually works pretty good.

I hope the thing about Tay being a top scoring option is true. Tayshaun needs to be the MAN for us now. He's the youngest, he's a perennial mismatch, a good defender, versatile, and when he goes aggressively inside good things more often than not happen.

It's time for the Prince to become a King.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Rip can and will finish at the hoop. Tay can and will finish at the hoop. If you're looking for the fast break bomber, it's Mr. Big Head.

What is the "will" stuff? HAVE they finished at the hoop more than settling for jumpers? That answer is no...not really opinion, it's a fact. CAN they finish at the hoop? Absolutely. I think they can be great finishers, I just wish they would finish more often at the rim. And that's more on Rip than Tay.

I have seen finish at the rim far more than any other Piston guard/forward. He drives into the lane and does a layup off the glass. I would love to see him do it more its usually money.

We usually dont drive. Billups may end up passing to Rip so can he shoot the baby 10 footer or Billups stops and pops the 3.

i can't buy some of these assesments at all.

i love rip but IMO he is possibly the worst finishing SG in the league. he does not have elite athleticism to get way up and finish in traffic and he also lacks a good handle to position himself well to finish when he is driving.

if i had a penny for every time rip drove to the hoop and did not/could not elevate enough or bring himself under control in order to finish....i'd be rich. more often than not, rip ends up driving too hard for his own good and flipping up a horrible, off-balance shot that barely gets above the rim and has little or no chance of going in. if it is not blocked, its trajectory gives it no chance to go in.

no matter how hard a guy drives, he should be able to 'put on the brakes' as far as his upper body goes in particular. he needs to bring himself under control, elevate, then softly and strategically lay the ball where it needs to go. if you just run at the rim and flip the ball in the area of the hoop, you're not going to come close to finishing. the ball has little hope of going in.

like i said, i love rip. but his handle and his inability to finish the way a 2 guard should, are glaring weaknesses.

he is a player who keeps working on and improving his game, so i hope this is an improved area as his career moves forward.

i can't buy some of these assesments at all.

i love rip but IMO he is possibly the worst finishing SG in the league. he does not have elite athleticism to get way up and finish in traffic and he also lacks a good handle to position himself well to finish when he is driving.

if i had a penny for every time rip drove to the hoop and did not/could not elevate enough or bring himself under control in order to finish....i'd be rich. more often than not, rip ends up driving too hard for his own good and flipping up a horrible, off-balance shot that barely gets above the rim and has little or no chance of going in. if it is not blocked, its trajectory gives it no chance to go in.

no matter how hard a guy drives, he should be able to 'put on the brakes' as far as his upper body goes in particular. he needs to bring himself under control, elevate, then softly and strategically lay the ball where it needs to go. if you just run at the rim and flip the ball in the area of the hoop, you're not going to come close to finishing. the ball has little hope of going in.

like i said, i love rip. but his handle and his inability to finish the way a 2 guard should, are glaring weaknesses.

he is a player who keeps working on and improving his game, so i hope this is an improved area as his career moves forward.

well said.

Nobody ever accused Reggie Miller of being a great finisher either, yet the Pacers managed to be one of the higher-scoring teams in the NBA with him.

Point is, I think we can up our tempo a little more without having a great need for atheltic alley-oop dunkers. Nobody's saying we should become Phoenix east. Dallas's tempo is probably more our liking.

And in case nobody noticed, Howard and Harris are pretty much the only mavs that don't settle for the pull-up jumper on fast breaks.

Nobody ever accused Reggie Miller of being a great finisher either, yet the Pacers managed to be one of the higher-scoring teams in the NBA with him.

Point is, I think we can up our tempo a little more without having a great need for atheltic alley-oop dunkers. Nobody's saying we should become Phoenix east. Dallas's tempo is probably more our liking.

And in case nobody noticed, Howard and Harris are pretty much the only mavs that don't settle for the pull-up jumper on fast breaks.

Mavs also have shooters that don't shoot 30% in the playoffs. If we had some of those guys...we probably wouldnt be complaining.

Nobody ever accused Reggie Miller of being a great finisher either, yet the Pacers managed to be one of the higher-scoring teams in the NBA with him.

Point is, I think we can up our tempo a little more without having a great need for atheltic alley-oop dunkers. Nobody's saying we should become Phoenix east. Dallas's tempo is probably more our liking.

And in case nobody noticed, Howard and Harris are pretty much the only mavs that don't settle for the pull-up jumper on fast breaks.

Mavs also have shooters that don't shoot 30% in the playoffs. If we had some of those guys...we probably wouldnt be complaining.

Doesn't mean they'll shoot %30 again next year. I sincerely doubt that will happen again, especially to Rip.

I realize it's blasphemy to mention that Ben was an offensive liability, but the fact is you won't see Shaq and Illgauskus trapping Rip so aggressively off those foul-line curls anymore, which was what started our offensive decline. Nazr made his living in San Anotnio being a safety valve for those kinds of situations.

Say what you will about our defense, but you can't tell me our offense won't be better next year.

Nobody ever accused Reggie Miller of being a great finisher either, yet the Pacers managed to be one of the higher-scoring teams in the NBA with him.

Point is, I think we can up our tempo a little more without having a great need for atheltic alley-oop dunkers. Nobody's saying we should become Phoenix east. Dallas's tempo is probably more our liking.

And in case nobody noticed, Howard and Harris are pretty much the only mavs that don't settle for the pull-up jumper on fast breaks.
Mavs also have shooters that don't shoot 30% in the playoffs. If we had some of those guys...we probably wouldnt be complaining.

Where is W.O.D.? This quote is screaming for a Stackhouse on the Pistons comment.